Rap vs. Rock

[Evil alla Pure]

I don't think I have told you guys this but I am a huge fan of hip-hop, rap and, R&B. But I've heard lots of negative stuff about the music from the media and other sources. Why do people hate rap? Some say that it is just a bunch of violence talk and desecration or whatever you call it of women. That right there is steriotype. Sure there are the ones who right about that stuuf but that is not the entire point of the music. Have any of you guys listened to Kanye West's song Jesus Walks? How about Tupac's (who I will touch on in a little bit) song Dear Mama. To me that took a lot of guts to right a song where he THANKED his mama for all the stuff she did for him. Unlike Eminem's mom who treated him like crap. I also have found out that some people think that because you are a rapper that you get to pushed around alot. Take Ludacris for example. Do some of you guys remember back in '02 when Bill O' Reilly went on the air and said people should boycott Pepsi because Ludacris was one of their spokespersons. He said Ludacris was a supporter of violence and was all triggerhappy and other crap like that when he didn't say a thing about Ozzy Ozborne or Brittany Spears in their commercials. Come on Ozzy has to be the world's biggest dope head! Another thing I was thinking about was Tupac. Do you know what September 7 is? Eight years since he got shot and they still don't have a SUSPECT!!! Think about how his mama feels, Pac was the last thing she had. You tell me that we can find Saddam Hussein but we CAN'T FIND THE KILLER OF ONE MAN!!! I really don't think they're trying.

[Shadow]

People don't like Rap and Rappers because that's just the way they feel about them. I mean I really wouldn't let it get to you because that's just their opinion. There are probably a lot of people who enjoy listening to rappers, but they don't need to express it in public you know? And besides, people talking about the violence and such is just political fodder, anyways. Look at politicians when they spoke of the violence in the video game Grand Theft Auto. They debated about that for a while and then it blew over.

[Dark Warrior]

^What Shadow said.Everyone has there own opinions and there own dislikes.Personally I have a dislike for rap,hip hop etc its just not right thing I like to listen to.And I'm pretty sure all the sterotypes come from the mainstream stuff(dont quote me one this,I don't know much about rap and stuff)which when I hear it,just seems to go on about women,partying and stuff like that.And you mentioned Ozzy being a big dopehead...so what?It's really only the music that matters...and as it stands,Ozzy has made some ace music.What he does in his personal time is his own choice.He's not exactly telling people to do it,and if people copy him...thats their own stupidity.

So,in conclusion,people have there own opinions.Some like rap,some don't(I'm part of the latter group).

[Angiru-San]

Yeah you guys said it pretty well...I do not like rap....but I dont go around preaching to other people saying the stupid stuff i nkow we have all heard, like "You and them rappers are goin to hell!" Ive heard so many people say stuff about if you listen to rap youre gonna kill someone, become a crackhead ....etc...and its all a crock of ****.

to me rap is just not my style of music, but thats just me. And to so many people it is! So what! everyone likes theyre choice of music, whether it be oldies or rap....let it be....

Its all opinion. people need to learn to respect others opninions, and not just theyre own...

So oh well...to each their own!

[Zigra]

Personally, I just don't like Rap/Hip Hop music itself, regardless of the lyrics and whatnot. To me, real music should have such elements as say, a melody and actual singing, and so on. Rap and Hip Hip rarely ever seems to have any of that. But that's just what I think.

[Alien-G]

It's not music and they complain a lot, take a look at Eminem, he's the biggest whiner ever, and he says his mom abused him, take a look at pics of him as a kid, he seems very happy. What a loser.

[Metal Zombie]

I don't like rap music, and I don't like rappers who flaunt all their "bling bling" and money and stuff around acting like they're on top of the world. Most rap music videos have the rappers just showing off all the stuff they can get with their money. It's stupid. There's no essence in most rap today, plus I just can't STAND to hear it. It's nothing personal against the music itself, but I just don't like it, much like how I don't like country music and death metal and stuff like that. Although I will admit, I like some of Jurassic 5's stuff, and dammit I liked MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice when I was little, and I STILL like MC Hammer. And I dunno if this completely counts or not, but Rage Against the Machine was AWESOME! They're the only band to do rap-metal correctly, but stuff like Linkin Park and Papa Roach and Limp Bizkit just suck. Oh, and the Beastie Boys kick *** too. They have a new album, don't they? And last but not least, Anthrax and Public Enemy playing Bring the Noise. That was just awesome. So yeah, I do like some stuff, but obviously that's not mainstream rap or hip hop crap at all. As a majority, it just doesn't sound good to me.

"I'm going to cross country music with rap! It's going to be called crap!"

One of my friends said that one day at school...

[china]

I agree you the above so much! I hate rappers who just go on about how they have everything they want. Bragging like that is very childish and annoying. I hate that one rapper J Z (?). One of his videos stereotyped every nations women to the point of racism. Make me mad what he said about Chinese girls.

[Emperor Violenjiger]

Rap isn't my favourite genre in the music world, but I certainly do not hate it. My aunt despises that particular category because it promotes doing everything you shouldn't, but I wouldn't know. I've only heard a few. But anyways, I wouldn't let what others think bother me if I were a rap fan. I'd just not read articles in the media and STAY THE HELL AWAY from this thread... yeah. That should do it.

[Metal Zombie]

I shall now sum up every rap song every written in the history of mankind;

"Well I smoke alot of crack and I got a alot of *****es and condoms to use on them!"

Thank you.


Dude, you forgot the part about money and guns! Oh well.


And I still stand by the fact that Rage Against the Machine ROCK.

[Evil alla Pure]

Woah, woah, woah ladies and gents let's hold our horses now. I didn't intend for you guys to think I was hatin on people just because they don't listen to rap. I respect everybody's opinion and their right to listen to whatever they want to. That's what this is about.

[Emperor Violenjiger]

stuff like Linkin Park and Papa Roach and Limp Bizkit just suck.
I heard the edited version of Limp Bizkit's "Break Stuff" and thought it sounded like a great song (and catchy too). Then I downloaded the real version... I don't mind a little swearing every so often. I mean I listen to SlipKnot a lot (well, not as much I used to) and there is a bit of swearing and profanity in that... but Break Stuff was soaken wet... no drenched with the f-word and I didn't like it as much. I found the word was very OVER USED.

[Raptor]

It all depends for me the type. There is some ..... rap out there I can't stand to listen to. Now other things, aren't so bad. It all depends who its coming from and how its being played. I heard one song blaring out of some ones car one time something like this : **** **** **** **** **** **** ****- and it keept going, I'm not kinding. My little brother was standing right there too listening.In most communities, there are ordinances against such "nuisances", from the profanity to the loud noise. Jot down the license number and call it in (NOT 9-1-1, OK?)

[Saruman]

And I still stand by the fact that Rage Against the Machine ROCK.
They did Rock, but they are just so much better as "Audioslave."

[Metal Zombie]

I don't like Audioslave as much. They're not as groovy as RATM, but I guess that's partially my opinion as a bassist moreso than anything else. That, and I haven't heard too much Audioslave, so I guess I can't make a good comparison between the two...

[Saruman]

^^
Their first album is excellent, but then I was expecting it to be considering they have one of the best Hard Rock/Metal vocalists ever in Chris Cornell, they really upgraded in that area when they picked him up.

[Gigan]

I myself don't listen to much rap except for Outkast. For the most part Rap, R&B, Hip-hop just doesn't do anything for me. I think the reason that the genre gets "hated on" so much is that many people have associated it with a rather deviant sect of society. Such is also the case with Death Metal/Hard Rock (a genre I myself am a fan of). Yes, this is stereotyping and yes it's usually wrong.

I myself appreciate the skill it takes to perform some of the rap songs I've heard, and there are some truly creative individuals out there. What I hate to see however is a rapper (or any musician for that matter) who is clearly doing it for the money. With some of the attitudes today's artists convey, it has become increasingly more difficult to distinguish between those who care about the music, and those who care just about the cash flow.

[Grand Godzilla]

I really like rap and hip hop for some reason. The music just sticks out to me more that punk rock or heavy metal. Its just me.

Favorite Rapper - Eminem and D-12

[kent]

I used to like rap back in the day when they talked about drugs, sex, f this and f that, and their violent upbringings in the slums of the big city. While I think the latter is understandable, the others really aren't. Most of Eminem's music fits the category of being unacceptable. I don't hate rappers, it's just that most of them think they're all that and that they are the kings/queens of the music world.
As far as rap music goes, I take it over country music anyday. Other than that, I try to stay away from it.

[Melkor]

I completely despise the majority of rap and hip hop out there... And I am completely at odds with the shallow and pathetic lifestyles of most rappers as well, who flaunt their bling bling and have nothing else in mind but to have sex with their '*****es'. I just can't stand this perception that rappers think they are the kings of the music industry. On the songs themselves, it would be nice if they actually had some melody and actual singing instead of just flashy visuals and meaningless drivel. I don't care about how large you live, give me something to think about and maybe I'll listen to you. But nay, it seems most rappers' idea of expressing free speech is through vulgarity and slander. As far as music goes, I'd take about any genre over Rap/Hip hop... Well, except for Pop, which is an even greater evil.



Peace,



Melkor



:darklord:

[rodan70]

I don't mind Ludacris, but I can't stand 50 cent. I wished they would have killed him the first 5 or so times he was shot. Ludacris is cool, He's showed up at a party at my friend's appartment in Carbondale after a Concert.

[Cosmos]

I wouldn't say that people hate rap... since hip hop and r&b dominate the airwaves and the majority of young people I see on the streets here in hamilton are clearly into hip hop.

If I have any one beef with Hip hop culture is that it's image obsessed. What with the bling bling and the High budget video's.
I get the impression that it's all surface and little content...

and when I see Rapper guys front'n ...it's just that all Front.

[Husnock]

Rap, Hip Hop, R&B... What else can I say? MV and Melkor both summed it up quite nicely (MV's post=short, but sweet:cool: ).

Yes, the music is shallow and repetitive. And the profanity is so overused that it no longer carries any meaning whatsoever (assuming it ever did at some point). But the one thing that really drives the nail into the guillotine would be the "singers" themselves (not that, as Zigra pointed out, rap can even be considered "singing"). I hate anyone who thinks their status raises them up to a "Godlike" pedestal that puts them above the law (and worse yet, there are tons of fans that think they deserve this position), and that justifies them doing anything that they want and getting away with it. They're almost like Disney!

Perfect point-in-case: Snoop Dogg (or whatever the Hel he's going by these days). That damnable name alone is perfectly representative of what I'm getting at. How many murder trials can you get away from scotch-free?! To say nothing of all the drugs and prostitution (and how exploiting drug-addicted women to sell their bodies for a fix could be considered an "admirable career" by popular culture is just beyond all logic). God willing, may he burn in Hell with Michael Eisner for all eternity.:cursing: :cursing: :cursing:

[HolyGoji777]

50 cent was shot like 9 times youd think ONE of them would have done the job...satan must be keeping him alive JUST to piss me off...

[rodan70]

No crap! I can't stand him.

[Melkor]

(and how exploiting drug-addicted women to sell their bodies for a fix could be considered an "admirable career" by popular culture is just beyond all logic).
Damn right you are. If there's one thing that's seriously WRONG in society right now it would be the glorifying of rappers' lifestyles. Everytime I see 50 Cent or whichever retarded ****face on MTV being admired and his 'music' praised it makes me sick to the stomach. And the fact that rappers think they are on a Godlike pedestal and are therefore exonerated from all their misdeeds is even worse. I don't know, but there's nothing admirable about the careers of most rappers.



Peace,



Melkor



:darklord:

[Morgoth]

What Husnock said. Plus, add in the fact that no matter how much money these 'artists' acrrue from stupid teenage and pre-pubescent punks that wouldn't know good music if it walked up and bit them in the face, these guys still live the lifestyle of 'gangsta' ghetto rats, which I suppose is a good thing since they are slowly gunning each other down. Too bad your average hood rat has the marksmanship of a blind wombat infested by malaria, which means anyone around these reptiles is more at risk than 'Big Piddy Wiggy Hoemaster 54'.

So, no, don't have any use at all for rap beyond its ability to determine who we send to the death camps first when I seize power.

[Zigra]

which means anyone around these reptiles is more at risk than 'Big Piddy Wiggy Hoemaster 54'.

Oh, come on now, Clint. Don't insult reptiles by comparing them to these talentless punks.

So, no, don't have any use at all for rap beyond its ability to determine who we send to the death camps first when I seize power.

Amen to that.

[Zigra]

Well, except for Pop, which is an even greater evil.


Oh, I wouldn't say that. As bad as a lot of Pop music can be, at least most of it actually is music (at least it use to be; I've noticed a lot of "Pop music" is starting to contain a lot of Hip Hop/Techno rhythms. A disturbing trend to say the least).

[Shadow]

Why does it seem like there is a dilbert comic for everything? :p

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/index.html

Note: the comic's date is 6/13 in case the wrong one comes up.

[Raptor]

"Social commentary", but at least without the annoying, inane sound effects of some of the teeth-gnashing RACKET that passes for "music" these days...

[Cookson]

Well I dont hate rap but there is some songs that are just plain stupid.

[Husnock]

^:laugh: That was good! (EDIT: meant for shadow's comic)

So, no, don't have any use at all for rap beyond its ability to determine who we send to the death camps first when I seize power.And if you ever need any help running one of those camps after the "initial shipment" of ghetto-gutter-trash ####holes gets there, you know where to ask for it.;) (Though if I had my way, we'd cart every last ####head like them off to R'lyeh and make Cthulhu notice them, at which point whatever happens next... happens... but that's just me.)

Damn right you are. If there's one thing that's seriously WRONG in society right now it would be the glorifying of rappers' lifestyles. Everytime I see 50 Cent or whichever retarded ****face on MTV being admired and his 'music' praised it makes me sick to the stomach. And the fact that rappers think they are on a Godlike pedestal and are therefore exonerated from all their misdeeds is even worse. I don't know, but there's nothing admirable about the careers of most rappers.THANK YOU. If there are any signs at all about the end being near (aside from this ####ing relentless weather out here in the Middle Northeastern US...:cursing: ), it's that such sickening acts are regarded as such massive "pop culture icons" in this day and age. It's downright painful. All this "pimpin'" and the endless exultation of drugs and murder and whathaveyou, it's just so impossibly wrong on so many levels that I just can't believe that no one has stopped and looked at themselves and realized the cold, hard truth about the things they're exemplifying, and then bash their own heads in with their expensive, gold painted medallions in their own shame and slef-loathing.

Clint, get in to power ASAP, because I can't overstate how much we need ya right now...

[SuperXAsh]

Another thing that pisses me off, and it's pretty much true, is how they stay in the public eye. Eminem has probably the greatest, almost foolproof plan/insurance policy to help himself stay in the limelight. Starting fueds with others.

It began with Vanilla Ice and Insane Clown Posse (I still listen to ICP, mainly cause half their songs are hilarious and they don't try to be black), and has escalated to other individuals as time went on. Each time the camera gets off him or interest starts to fade, he goes off and starts another fued.

On VH1's 50 greatest celebrity fueds, about 40% of them were Eminem fueds. The little ******* has quite the ingenious plan. "Music sucks, not raking in the "bling"? Start a fued with someone."

But it sure beats what other rap "singers" do. Commit crimes and get put on trial for them, then money comes in by the boatloads.

It's sick... utterly sick.

But probably the one thing I hate the most... and this will probably be true till the day I die... I hate seeing rich/wealthy white kids blaring out their rap music out the windows of their flashy cars. Ghetto music being played by rich white kids in Suburbia is just too hilarious simply for the irony of it.

Rap's biggest crime though... has to be the creation of the Wannabe Black Kid. Little annoying WHITE kids talkin' like they're from da streets and like they're big time gangstas from da hood. I'm white and it's ****in' insulting to me and I hope it's even more insulting to black people as well.

:kinggoji: :gamera: :kingkong:

[SandwormPhish]

I'd take about any genre over Rap/Hip hop... Well, except for Pop, which is an even greater evil.


Well I'll say one thing, at least the pop fans don't have the bass on their stereo cranked up so high it vibrates your windows across 4 lanes of traffic.

[Melkor]

^ Hmm, you make a good point.



Though pop has its fair share of miscreants as well. And don't even get me started on Britney Spears. Her initials should summarise my gut feeling towards her at least in the basest sense. :D And then there's also Justin... :nonono2: Although, yes, the pop fans are generally less obnoxious than the rap/hiphop ones.







Peace,







Melkor







:darklord:

[Shadow]

I think it's funny when A guy has his music blaring, it's vibrating every car around him in a 10 ft. area, but his speakers are busted and all you can understand (if you could understand anything before) is every third word, if the rapper yells it. It's just funny to see a guy who payed a lot for his speaker system, but now it is ruined because they played their music too loud too often.

Oh yeah, and the guys who "dance" in thier cars at a stop light to the music is funny also. I mean, that just look so dumb, yet they think they are cool. I did see one guy who "danced" to his music while driving. My dad and I were behind him on the way home. I wanted to hang my head out the window and yell "TWO HANDS ON THE WHEEL!" though I doubt that he would have heard me over the music, and he barely had one hand on anyways. At one point he took his hat off and started flail around like he was having a seizure (he was stopped at that point). It made for some good conversation on the way home, it was hilarious to watch him. I hope to see that guy again just so I have something to laugh at, in case nothing is going on during the ride home.

[Melkor]

^ Well I'll tell you one thing... that ain't half as weird or funny as the motorcycling grandpa we saw on the way home back in sixth grade! Lol, forgive me for straying off topic, but I just have to tell this story; me, my brother and some friends who used to carpool with us were on the way home from school one rainy afternoon when all of a sudden this 60 year old grandpa riding a Harley Davidson comes up next to us. I think he was listening to rap, too, judging by the blaring sounds coming from his CD player. :D Anyway, we decided to race him [ the driver being my older cousin ], and sure enough, we the old man was leaving us in the dust! Then we caught up to him, but we had to turn left, and when we looked at him, he was waving his arms in victory and looking left, at our direction. LOL. He could've died, but we were too busy laughing!



Peace,



Melkor



:darklord:

[Husnock]

But it sure beats what other rap "singers" do. Commit crimes and get put on trial for them, then money comes in by the boatloads.

It's sick... utterly sick.Yeah, I touched on that earlier. It's so incredibly wrong when they think they can do anything they want due to their status, including taking and/or ruining lives just to get CD sales up.

But probably the one thing I hate the most... and this will probably be true till the day I die... I hate seeing rich/wealthy white kids blaring out their rap music out the windows of their flashy cars. Ghetto music being played by rich white kids in Suburbia is just too hilarious simply for the irony of it.Ah... I see you have them too.

Rap's biggest crime though... has to be the creation of the Wannabe Black Kid. Little annoying WHITE kids talkin' like they're from da streets and like they're big time gangstas from da hood. I'm white and it's ****in' insulting to me and I hope it's even more insulting to black people as well.Again, I see I'm not alone, that I must endure similar tortures in the halls of my own personal Hell. They infest my school like rats infested with the bubonic plague. There seems to be no end to them. And listening to them talk, it's just... Ugh, painful. I dare say it's worse than reading most of the pro-SpaceGoji votes in the DD3 right now. They strut around the school with those big, baggy pants hanging below their pale, disgusting asses, with crappy little "gold" and "silver" necklaces that look like they were pulled out of one of those little plastic bubble containers you get at a Wal-Mart vending machine, all the while looking so pale white and acne-encrusted that you'd think that they would've never sen sunlight or facewash in their entire lives. And I just love how they just start screaming out those incoherent lyrics while listening to their overpriced, puny little MP3 players while spoiling all our lunches, intelligent conversations, or whatever else happens to be going on at the time. And most of my black friends aren't even anything like this. In fact, they just so happen to hate these ####s just as much as I do.

[Shadow]

I can't stand the "fashion" statements. Gaudy jewelry, and all the other stupid things, but what gets me the most is the pants down to their knees. It's like some rapper died and they are wearing thier pants at half mast...

[SandwormPhish]

There used to be several Wannabe Black Kids in my neighborhood, but thankfully, most of them really didn't like the 'peaceful, serene' setting and left. Others were forcefully evicted for crimes and noise pollution that no one wants to deal with. Thankfully, there aren't many of them in my school. But whenever I go out I always see those assinine jackoffs sleazing around acting black, talking to the next black person they see. Honestly, it's getting really annoying, if you can't be proud of your own race then you are a ****ing huge shame to your ethnicity, and doubly more for the one ou are 'looking up to'. :nonono2:



Careful Melkor you mention 'white pride' without attaching some specific country to it and you're liable to get lynched this day in age.

[SuperXAsh]

oh and don't forget their Gold Teeth. Now normally a person would get their teeth capped before getting gold put onto their teeth... but not rappers. Look at Old Dirty *******... his teeth are gold... but since he didn't get them capped before doing it... it just looks like he hasn't brushed his teeth in like a year or two.

:kinggoji: :gamera: :kingkong:

[Zigra]

Heh heh, you know guys, I recently developed a little list of bands and music artists that I feel should be.......taken care of. If anybody wants to see it, just PM me (I don't think it would be appropriate to post it openly in the forums).

[Godzilla guy]

I do not hate rap. But I can understand why some people do, they cmpare it to other music and say it isn't music. I hate it when people do this. They cannot say "Rap is bad" full stop. I dont think they have a right to choose which is 'good' and what is 'bad' Yes, everyone has there own opinions but you dont have to inflict it on others.

Personally, I like rap. But I understand that I haven't got a right to say its the best music ever. Rap is just another type of music. Deal with it.

[Emperor Violenjiger]

^ Hmm, you make a good point.



Though pop has its fair share of miscreants as well. And don't even get me started on Britney Spears. Her initials should summarise my gut feeling towards her at least in the basest sense. :D And then there's also Justin... :nonono2: Although, yes, the pop fans are generally less obnoxious than the rap/hiphop ones.Pop is the worst genre of music ever in the entire world. I don't hate the actual singers, I have never met them before and gotten to know them so I can't say I hate them... I just hate their music... uggghhh.... Crappy stuff. That's why I stopped listening to K94 and turned over to the Membertou Station!

[Ebirah]

I hate rap, they messed up my 12 year old brother. all he does is walk around with his tupac shirts, tupac bracelet, tupac necklace, and listens to his cd of biggie smalls and other bad rappers. even worse he is allways singing the lyrics to the songs and he makes up his own lyrics and says that he wants to be a rapper when he grows up. right now, he's watching tupac resurection and it is pure garbage. thank god no one else i know is as obsessed with rap as my brother is.

[Metal Zombie]

^^

I hate people like that. And the white wannabe rappers are usually of the Prep/Jock stereotype, thereby worsening it. People like this I'd love to strap down and force them to listen to 3 hours of every good CD that I have...

[Emperor Violenjiger]

Hate is an awfully strong word my friends...

And geeze, why bother hating them and *****ing like whiny brats just because they like something that doesn't appeal to you! It's no different than the popular crowd putting us down and calling us ******s (or whatever terms they use) because we like kaiju, and they don't. If they like it, they like it. Let 'em. Everyone has their own interests. :angry:

[Daikaijuking]

hey hey guys, man i love rap. A certain type though, if your talking maionstream like eminem, D12, tupac, then I dislike that kind very much. But underground, no thats good, those rappers rap about what they want. Immortal techinique, Atmosphere, and more. God i love immortal technique "Just so conservatives don't take it to heart, i don't thin bush did it because he isn't that smart. He's just a stupid puppet takin orders from a cellphone from the same people who sabatoged senator wellstone" Good line, very good.

[Metal Zombie]

Ah, political rap! Or so it seems from that line. That's what I liked about Zach de la Rocha's lyrics in Rage Against the Machine. Sometimes it was a bit too much or vague, but I loved the band's political standing, and his lyrics had depth and meaning to them. I think now that Rage broke up, he has some sort of little rap group or something, I'm not sure.

[Desu-Goji]

Im a huge a rap fan, and i dont listen to rap music that most people are listening to today. I aree that most rap music is kinda wrong, but if you listen to rapers like 2pac, his music is good, he rapped about almost everything, not just whats happening in the ghetto; but whats happening all around us.

Not is it only rap music that says all the bad stuff, you hear the same things in rock music, i dont listen to rock much but i hear that bands like Slipknott is prety violent. But heres one thing that bothers me, people show no respect for peoples taste, i hear rockers talking crap abut rap saying its all the same, too bad they are wrong.

[Desu-Goji]

ok music is my true love in life. i take it more serious than anything...and why do i hate rap? because its not real. most rappers dont perform from the heart they do it to make money. they rap about drugs guns tvs women and how much money they have. its all manufactured. or most of it at least there are some exceptions. i prefer rock because its for the most part...real...but there are exceptions here as well such as limp bizkit. but listen to a flaw cd...then go listen to jay-z or whatever...Flaw sings from the heart..it has meaning...jay-z has no meaning...no substance. this is all my opinion mind you...take from it what you will.

I disagree, it looks like your saying all rap is the same which is not true; 2pac, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Nas, and South Central Cartel; these rappers rap from the heart while rappers like Brotha Lynch Hung, X-Raided, and C-Bo rap to let out anger through there rhymes rather then doing it in real life, but when it comes to rappers like Nelly, Murphy Lee, Juvenile and other rappers like them, they rap about nonsense crap like there jewelry, teeth, woman, drugs, sex, and other stuff.

Show some respect to REAL rappers like 2pac and Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, atleast most of there music has meaning. Its also funny how most of you dont listen to rap but say that they are all the same...thats just plain out ignorant...

[Evil alla Pure]

Well back from vacation and back to the forums

I agree with you Desu Goji people shouldn't just catagorize rap as a violent, incoherent, blasphemase style of music without even listening to the good stuff. And also on the fact that rock can be the same as the sterotype image sometimes. And about the white boy gangsta stuff they annoy me too. I mean they sometimes give people the impresion that every white person who listens to the music will be exactly like them. But like Lord K said leave them alone and treat them with some respect. You know they will probably be working at McDonalds the rest of their life anyway, lol. And one more thing, this celebrity getting out of jail free card thing all celebs get that privelege. Whether it be Uma Thurman or 50 Cent.

[Jet Jaguar]

Hate the game
Not the playas baby

[Shadow]

Oh and by the way about Vanilla Ice not, every rapper hated him. Because he lied about being stabbed and living in the ghetto and stuff like that. You don't have to grow up on the streets to become a rapper but when you lie about such things you better hope nobody finds out.
You really can't lie about things like that, because if you are a (popular) rapper, then you will always be in the public eye. Someone will find you out. Tabloids/Magazines/Paparazzi will do anything to dig stuff up on you.

[Metal Zombie]

To deviate things from being negative, is the Beastie Boys new album out? If so, has anyone heard it, and what are your thoughts? I loved their older stuff, especially No Sleep Til Brooklyn, that was a great song.

[Daikaijuking]

i wonder, why do so many G-fans hate this stuff? They hear one song, then they get all pissy and begin stereotyping people who listen to it, i got a quote right here. "I hate rap, anyone who listens to rap is one of those dumbasses who think they're all ghetto and S###."
1. Depends what kind of rap song you listen to
2. Rap is just peotry in song form
3. There's nothing wrong with listening to rap.
I guess people nowa days are always listening to all that mainstream stuff, that rap about drugs and stuff, which is just dumb, but i listen to rap, and i listen to underground rappers, independent, people who aren't owned by comapnoes and aren't told what to rap about. They swear because its the only way they know how to express what they're saying, and not all of them always rap about drugs, ya know some just don't talk aobut drugs or getting high or killing people or any of those steroeotypes that people make after hearing some non talented rapper like 50 cent or Jay Z.

[Kaiju_Sensai]

I don't have nothing against rap, well at least classic Rap. Ya know Sir Mix-a-lot, Digital Underground, Marky Mark, stuff like that. Hell the Millenium Hip-Hop Party #1 is one of my favorite CDs. Modern Rap/Hip-Hop on the other hand sucks royally. Though I still kinda like Snoop Dog. By the way the Beastie Boys kick ***.

[Evil alla Pure]

I love rap and hip hop. The music is my life, and I don't see how I would exist without out it. And I am very much against stereotyping of this type of music. Hip Hop is just like peotry, it doesn't have one concrete definition. Each artist has their different spin on things and this makes it meven more better. Of course others like to think otherwise. Originally hip hop was AGAINST violence. That's how batteling and dance offs were invented. It wasn't until nearly a decade after it really became a hit that the gangsta shoot 'em up stuff came about. Which back in the day depicted what it was like for those in the ghetto. Not that I'm saying there wasn't this around. Sorry if I got of the topic a little bit but I just wanted to say my piece. And Soundwave it isn't all filled with cussing and such. Here we go again...

[Daikaijuking]

But if you have to swear to express yourself or express your point, well, that doesn't positively reflect your intelligence... Especially if its like Eminem; "F this and F that." That's kinda what his songs are. If it's not constantly used, I guess swearing isn't that bad.....

Beastie Boys: A License to Ill, their first album I think. Good album, and pretty much the only rap I'll listen to.

And I didn't know poetry was full of bad language @_@
Thats cuz you onlt hear what eminem has to say over the radio, listen to his CD he gets very political, if the swearing bothers you u ignore the swearing, thats what makes Rap differen, they let everyhting out when they rap, so they get pissed, and then out come the F and F. Just for the fact that they swear doesn't mean they're not smart, the rapper immortal technique swears like crazy, yet he could have gone to become a senator or a governor, instead he choose rap to tell you what the government is doing. I rewally don't like beastie boys, they're an untalented rap group IMO.

[Soundwave]

Well Daikaijuking, excessive swearing tends to bother me, so I can't really drown it out. I'm more of an 80's Metal guy myself, finding myself fond to bands like Iron Maiden, Motley Crue, Ratt, Guns & Roses, Bon Jovi, etc.

I'm fond to the EARLY Beastie Boys, and that's about all the rap I like. It's just about the only rapping I've heard without excessive swearing.

And the way you expressed it is rappers swear to express their feelings, where I countered and pointed out if they have to swear to express their feelings, well, yeah.

And I'd rather not listen to any of his (Eminem's) CDs (well, unedited at least). The radio plays edited versions, but unedited... I'd lose my mind.

Eminem can get as political as he wants. I'm not into politics that much, and I still think he swears too much.

[Daikaijuking]

But a lot of the modern rap we have today (well, at least a lot of the stuff I hear while flipping stations and peruzing through different rap songs at least) have a good deal of cussing. Like Eminem for example.
cuz if they didn't swear people won't really listen to it. It'll be just any normal poem. The swearing is what gets them to catch onto the music.

[Soundwave]

cuz if they didn't swear people won't really listen to it. It'll be just any normal poem. The swearing is what gets them to catch onto the music.
Okay, here is where I strongly disagree. If you need to swear just to get people to listen... Well, to put it bluntly, then don't even bother. Me, I don't believe a person needs to swear excessively. It tends to lower my respect for them.

[Evil alla Pure]

Like he said it's being pissed off and about struggle and stuff like that. This differs in most main stream though. Tupac put it best IMO. Say you're standing outside your house hungry. Your dad opens the door to the house and inside you see lots of food. But he says you can't come in and slams the door in your face. What are you going to do? At first you would be knocking very nicely asking to please get in. Then you will get more and more agitated. Finally after seeing this is of no use you have nothing to do but yell "LET ME THE F IN!" See that's what it's about. You didn't want to get violent or cuss but when you finally were pushed to the brink and couldn't take it you're going to make damn sure you get that food. See what I'm getting at?

[Soundwave]

Rap just isn't my cup of tea. Others dislike 80's rock, where I like it, and will back it up, which you guys are doing right now for rap (though I think the argument of if rap didn't have language, people wouldn't listen was pretty...yeah). It's a matter of whether you like it or not.


I don't, so I'll probably end up pointing out what I think is bad about it, but I'm not saying people CAN'T listen to it. It's just, I don't like it.

[Cosmos]

it's easy to suck with this genre of music, seems it's easier to suck at hip hop than most other kinds of music.. I think it's its popularity. So much of it boils down to 'posse bling and ho's" which is tired message.
the style of music can be awsome but it's the quality of lyric that's huring hip hop right now.

I enjoy a good hip hop song if it
1. doesn't rip off a hook from an already awsome song, and ride it's coat tails.
2. Self promote.

And dude if you're thinking Digital Underground, and Marky ******* mark are classic rap dude... set your wayback machine a few years earlier.

Rob base, kurtis Blow, NWA, public enemy,
even good old house of pain... Blood hound gang...
and good old Run DMC.

good stuff ...

[Daikaijuking]

Rap is hard to be good, at you have to be good at poetry, if you are extremely talented at poetry you might pull it off. I like Atmosphere, Immortal technique, Akia is ok and a few more guys.

[Mothraleo]

Heres something I picked up from my friends, and this is to insult noone...

R- Retards
A- Attempting
P- Poetry
I just prefer the word "crap" which has no meledy/and or tune that makes it notworthy in my eyes.

[kent]

I have nothing against rap. Although I will say that today's rap is VERY repetitive. Like one member said, I believe it was Cosmos, they all pretty much rap about the same ole things. Gets old fast. I like the older rap with much less swearing and something that was not repetitive. Don't get me wrong, I like some of today's rap, but the constant swearing and repetitiveness makes it old in my opinion. Can't believe it hasn't worn itself out.

[Daikaijuking]

The reason why i think everyone has this saying aobut rap is the kind they hear over the radio, people like Jay Z, Nelly, Snoop dog, yea those guys annoy me. If you listen to independent underground rappers, you'll understand why they swear, i mean not all of them do it like every other word, but then they need to use it in order to describe someone, something, whats going in an easy way to understand it. Eminem is pretty good, the only problem is they put all his bad songs on the radio, if you listen to his CD, he gets very poetic and slightly cuts down on the swearing, which makes him a little better then what they're showing over the radio. I think the main reason why people don't like him is for the fact that he tells u what he thinks about polotics, hehe if immortal technique were to come on the radio i know people would hate him because he raps about polotics and gives you the negative and what you don't know, people would get mad and say "he's lying" "he's bullS^&*ing with you" blah blah blah. You need to listen to rap to understand it, don't get to caught up in the swearing and everything, rap has a meaning, and is better then what you think.I prefer rap over all that meta;, rock, pop stuff which i just see as nothing but trash, bores me to death with all that screaming and yelling.

[Solar_Behemoth]

Heres something I picked up from my friends, and this is to insult noone...

R- Retards
A- Attempting
P- Poetry

LOL. That's so true! :laugh:

Now really, I have nothing against rap (rap, not the people who like rap) besides the common songs like:

"Yo yo yo me dawg waz pickin up my mother ******* ****** *****-*** sluts and ******* them and gettin paid *****-*** cash for ******* ****** in ******* return!"

[Daikaijuking]

but i don't recall any songs with those lyrics or any songs that has lyrics close to that. but then again, Jay Z and those untalented people do sound sorta like that.

[Desu-Goji]

I've been listening to rap for a LONG time, and RAP actually started out as poetry, untill the rapper, ICE-T, started a new form of Rap music, and that form is called Gangsta rap. After all these other rappers heard his stuff, they too went for it, and started rapping about killing cops, having sex, doing drugs and such. Thats when rapped changed.

Thats untill 2pac appeared, he was a REAL poet compared to other rappers of today. He rapped about the love for his mom (Dear MaMa), the rights for women (Gotta Keep Ya Head Up), a narrative poem about an underaged parent (Brenda's Gotta Baby), AND about the world today (Changes, Thugz Masion), he did go negative in a few of his songs though, but he still rapped about the real stuff. Kanye West is also a good rapper...although i dont like his music, also Nas, he;s cool, ever heard the song One Mic?

I agree that rappers today (like Jay-Z, Chingy, etc) are all stupid, Underground is the way to go. I listen to rappers like like 2pac, Brotha Lynch Hung, X-Raided, Mac Dre, and alot of Bay Area rappers.

Brotha Lynch Hung raps about how angry he is, because of how he was treated or something, he did express his anger in nasty ways, not sexual....something more like Texas Chainsaw Massacre...

There was this certain member in GojiStomp who was stereotyping rap and Rappers, including Blacks in an offensive manner, he said stuff that black people (I think he said this because of the rap he hears on the radio) are always into all the bling bling, slick rides, and all that other stuff, which is actually false, he never took the time to understand REAL rap.

Mothra Leo, calling rap "CRAP" because it has no tune is pretty ignorant dont you think? in music, i usually find the Lyrics more important, although most of rap today is pretty stupid, you could learn from rappers like Nas from his song, One Mic, along with 2pac in his song, Changes.

If you wanna read a list of a REAL Rapper's poetry, check this link out:
http://www.hitemup.com/tupac/poetry.html

its a list of Tupac's poems, some of you can relate to them i think, my most favorite one is "Sometimes I Cry".

[Saruman]

cuz if they didn't swear people won't really listen to it. It'll be just any normal poem. The swearing is what gets them to catch onto the music.
I'm sorry but this is one of the most disturbing things I have seen said here.

As Soundwave said, if you have to swear to express yourself then you simply aren't intelligent enough to bother with.

If you have to swear to get your "psudo-music" to catch on then once again you aren't worth bothering with. All it does is set the wrong example and show people how foolish you are.

I listen to Heavy Metal, it's my favorite genre of music, I listen to mostly everything though. Heavy Metal has always gotten a bad "rap"(no pun intended) for the type of music it is. but if you listen to bands like Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Godsmack, Ozzy, Iced Earth, Zeppelin, Rush and many many others, you usually hear very little in the way of swearing form these bands. They get their message out in their music and they express themselves without all the swearing that is rampant in most Rap, and those bands are very very successful. Their songs also have A LOT of meaning behind them, more so than most other forms of music, especially in todays music industry.

You want to get your message out and make a point, then you should be able to do it without swearing, if you can't, well then that is simply pathetic and I don't know why anyone would listen to stuff like that and buy it. It shows just how little of character the singer is if they have to resort to doing something so childish.

[Saruman]

I prefer rap over all that meta;, rock, pop stuff which i just see as nothing but trash, bores me to death with all that screaming and yelling.Then I don't know what Metal you are listening to but it sure as hell isn't the really good stuff.

Try listening to Iced Earth's "The Glorious Burden" cd. You want something with meaning this will give it to you with every song as each one is based on historical occurences like the American Civil War, Atilla the Hun, The Red Baron, Valley Forge and Waterloo. They also have one of the most incredible 9/11 tribute songs written called "When the Eagle Cries" on the cd, simply an amazing album and no it's not filled with screaming.

Other things to listen to, try Iron Maidens "Paschendale" which is a song about one soliders view of WWI while hes lying in a trench dying. Or "Montsegur" which is about the Catholic Church killing the Cathars in the Citadel Montsegur in Southern France or "Run to the Hills" which is about how we slaughtered the American Indians when we first came to this country. I could name a ton more but I am sure you see the point I am making here and in not one of those songs you will find a single swear word.

Try some Megadeth, "Countdown to Extinction" is one of my favorite songs and won a national award for it's getting the word out about "caged hunts" and how atrocious they are.

Try Ozzy's "Suicide Solution" which speaks out against commiting suicide or "Thank God for the Bomb" which speaks out against war and how bad nuclear weapons are(don't let the song title fool you).

There is a lot of really good metal out there and you will find that most good metal has songs that have very strong and powerful meanings to them, not to mention A LOT of actual history as the base for many many songs. You also will not find a lot of swearing in the majority of good metal and when it is used it's not something that is done over and over again like it is done in Rap.

[Desu-Goji]

Swearing could also reflect how you are feeling, even I write cuss words in my poems, and i dont believe the cussing is what makes people want to listen to it, IMO, with all these young teenagers (like myself) are always partying on the weekends they want some good party music, or maybe its because people like the beat (which is something I hear alot) or how the bass bumps, which kinda bugs me at times.

Everybody has there own way of expressing themselves, and swearing is no exception, we all have sweared in our lifes now havent we? whenever we felt angry, pressured, get hurt or any of those things, the first word that would usually come out is Sh**, F**k, BullSh**, and any other curse word.

Even my Teacher in poetry class said cursing is a good way of expressing yourself, and she let us listen to poets who actually cuss, and IMO, the cussing makes the peace more interesting for some reason. Why do you think kids like myself are allowed to curse in Anger Management?

So there is nothing wrong on swearing in music, its just another way to express or send out a message.

[Soundwave]

Saruman, you are, THE MAN!!! :bigsmile:


Run to the Hills is a song for both the perspectives from the Native Americans and Americans. You see, after the verse, "We fought him hard, we fought him well, out on the plains, we gave him hell. But many came, too much for Cree. Oh will we ever be set free," it breaks off into the Americans' view. This is where it starts, directly after that verse: "Riding through dustclouds and barren wastes, galloping hard on the plains. Chasing the redskins back to their homes, fighting them at their own games. Murder for freedom, a stab in the back; women and children and cowards attack!!"

I think the women & children & cowards part might've been Indians' view, but oh well.

Although some songs may have a swear or two, Guns & Roses is another good heavy metal band. I mean, their song "Civil War" is a good song, 'bout war 'n stuff. Even starts with the bossman quote, from Cool Hand Luke :D

And November Rain is just a cool song in general (again, by G&R).

Man, I could go on and on recommending and explaining 80's songs, lol.

And that all wasn't for you Saruman, in case you thought I was correcting you, it was just explaining to the others and recommending at the same time.

Oh yes, and Rush is awesome!!

Also, if anyone's an 80's Rock Fan, I highly suggest the movie Trick Or Treat. Some good 80's tunes, and Gene Simmons (from KISS) plays as the Radio DJ and Ozzy makes a guest appearance as a priest who thinks the music is satanic.

[Kaiju Fan]

Blind Guardian is another great metal band that manages to put strong meaning into their songs without having to use a single swear word in them. Their '98 album, Nightfall in Middle Earth, is all about the first half of the Silmarillion and speaks of courage, strength, loss of faith, anger, death, honor, betrayal, nobility, etc., all without using any profanity in it. If anything, I agree with Saruman that singers swearing constantly in their songs takes away from the music, b/c to me it shows lack of creativity and inability to express yourself without having to resort to gutter language. Offtopic, but Saurman, if you haven't already checked out Blind Guardian I would heavily recommend them, b/c they would probably be right up your alley.

[Kaiju Fan]

Oh, I just remembered the song "Jeremy" by Pearl Jam, that song would be a good example of when profanity is used in a way that is both sparingly and doesn't take away from the song. Eddie Vedder uses the word f*** during one of the lines in the song, but by only using it once it doesn't take away from the song and become irritating to hear. That song is about the negative consequences that can result when a child is neglected and ignored by his family and the people around him/her, and Vedder gets the anger and frustration of the child across without having to resort to constant profanity. That's what rap and nu-metal both don't understand, a person can write a song that has anger and angst in it and express themselves that way without having to resort to constant profanity every line. Hope that makes sense.

[Kaiju Fan]

I was hoping we would get to this part. Both Rock and Rap have the same problem, people don't listen to the good stuff. This thread is a perfect example, not that I'm calling you guys stereotypes it's just the fact that we are ignorant of each other's type of music. I do listen to some Rock and I must say i do find a similarity between the two. Either we have a type that has a message or a type that has none and is just party music. And the other thing is the two are stereotyped very often and also "persicuted" for these stereotypical reasons and for their rebellious attitudes towards ssociety. The two types of music may have different beats and lyrics but it's the same thing just wrapped up in a different package. Make any sense to anybody?

I do agree with you that people tend to stereotype music by the mainstream stuff that they hear, such as on MTV or the radio or such. While I am by no means a rap fan, I do think that early rap was decent primarily because back when it first started out and into the 80's groups like Run DMC and Public Enemy actually had something worthwhile to say with their music. Public Enemy, for example, would rap about politics and their anger toward government policies and stuff like that, showing that they actually had intelligence behind their music. Nowadays, mainstream rap and hip-hop has been hijacked by artists such as Ludacris and Ja Rule and Eminem, who rap about gangsta life and all of that nonsense. So bascially, I'm not a rap fan, but I do respect the early groups such as Public Enemy for their attempt to actually make a point and get a message across with their music.

[Gorjirus]

i usually find the Lyrics more important

Not all of do though. The only reason I even do listen to music (which isn't very often at that) is for the MUSIC, not what some people are saying. That is the diffence in song and music.

whenever we felt angry, pressured, get hurt or any of those things, the first word that would usually come out is Sh**, F**k, BullSh**, and any other curse word.

You better put some emphasis on that "usually". If you are angry, saying those doesn't solve anything. Yeah, you might feel a little better, but does that solve what you are angry over? That is the weird thing about cussing in song. They are angry, so they cuss and yell. Yeah. A whole lot of good that is going to do to solve whatever problem this "poet" seems to have.

[Desu-Goji]

Not all of do though. The only reason I even do listen to music (which isn't very often at that) is for the MUSIC, not what some people are saying. That is the diffence in song and music.

Im not saying Lyrics are the most important as a fact, im saying it as my opinion.

You better put some emphasis on that "usually". If you are angry, saying those doesn't solve anything. Yeah, you might feel a little better, but does that solve what you are angry over? That is the weird thing about cussing in song. They are angry, so they cuss and yell. Yeah. A whole lot of good that is going to do to solve whatever problem this "poet" seems to have.

Ummm...when you are angry, you should already know what you are angry over, so there is no reason to solve why you are angry. These rappers absolutley know why they are angry, if they didnt, they wouldnt be rapping about it now would they? so letting it out through their lyrics with cussing is not weird at all, maybe to those who dont listen to it, but not to those who ACTUALLY listens to it and understands it.

[Raptor]

cuz if they didn't swear people won't really listen to it. The swearing is what gets them to catch onto the music.Actually, just the opposite is true. If one doesn't like what they're hearing (whether the words or the "music"), they tune them out/turn them off. You think I'm going to BUY their albums/discs with what I don't like on them? NO WAY! :angry:
As for some "artist" being "smart" and could be in politics if he wants, how come he isn't? Could all the "trash" he spews be a lame cover-up for his inadequacies in that field? And in the long run, his actions will come back to haunt him no doubt, should he desire to make a bid for public office.

[godzillaguy36]

What is better rap or rock i choose rock!

[godofPH]

lets see how long this thread lasts before becoming a flame war lol.


i choose rock. they play their own instruments, their lyrics are typically insightful and thoughtful to say the least.

rap is the polar opposite. has no depth no feeling.

just my two cents

If you want insightful and thoughtful lyrics, look at country music :p

On the debate here, I have to say Rock is much, much, much better than Rap. I happen to hate Rap with a passion. All I see in Rap is a bunch of "Gangstas" singing/talking about how tough it is in the hood, their prostitues and "bustin' caps."

[Gojira89]

Im a fan of both, though I do like Rock better. Rock tends to have more feeling, while rap has some very cool beats. I greatly dislike mainstream rap however.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Rock all the way. I prefer the Symphonic Rock/Power Metal over the regular "Mainstream" stuff, to whiny. I hate whinniness.

[Project Pimp]

Rock is an all encompassing genre that covers everything from Elvis to Judas Priest to Pink Floyd. To think that people senselessly rhyming over beats could even compare is just ridiculous.

[biochemitra]

Rock is my favorite genere of music so I have to choose it.


I will, however say that , while VERY poor as music, rap can be a downright awsome instrument of comedy!
Who remembers "Who's line"'s Zombie rap?!

[Zigra]

Gee, we have Rap, where the vast majority of "artists" have nothing melodic in their "music", and most of them simply talk like unemotional zombies rather than actually singing. Then, we have Rock, where most artists do have melodic tunes and can sing. I wonder which one I prefer?

[Mecha74]

Wow. I've probably seen two million Rap vs Rock threads around the net... but this is the first one where NO ONE voted for rap.

Awesome. ;)

And please allow me to take the time to add to that growing number by saying 'rock', by a landslide.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

I prefer neither.....I don't hate these two types of music, but I do prefer classical/instrumental/soundtrack music. Like LOTR, or most kaiju soundtracks.
Try bands like Rhapsody and Nightwish. They've created an amazing blend of Symphonic Instrumentals with Metal. And theres no screaming vocals eigther ;)

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Thank you for the recommendation, I shall try them. I prefer calmer music anyway, hard beated, screaming music really doesn't appeal to me, I prefer music with more of a melody to it.
Calmer, then I'd suggest MoonDance by Nightwish (Beautiful song). You can find the Mp3 on most Music Download sites. I think youd really like it.

[Zigra]

Try bands like Rhapsody and Nightwish. They've created an amazing blend of Symphonic Instrumentals with Metal. And theres no screaming vocals eigther ;)

Or just about anything written by Jim Steinman (the guy who wrote all the music on Meat Loaf's two Bat Out of Hell albums).

[BS Digital Q]

Try bands like Rhapsody and Nightwish. They've created an amazing blend of Symphonic Instrumentals with Metal. And theres no screaming vocals eigther ;)Ever since downloading "She Is My Sin" I am totally hooked. Best. Song. Ever.

[Saruman]

I prefer neither.....I don't hate these two types of music, but I do prefer classical/instrumental/soundtrack music. Like LOTR, or most kaiju soundtracks.

If you like the ROTK soundtrack then you probably like Annie Lennox who won the oscar for best song from the ROTK soundtrack. So you might ant to check out the rock group the Eurythmics, since Annie is their lead singer. She is also one of my favorite female vocalists, she has such an amazing voice.:thumbs:

[packmule]

I prefer rock. Rap music does absolutely nothing for me.

[Raptor]

Rap music does absolutely nothing for me.I believe that says it best! :thumbs: Why do we listen to MUSIC (which, by the way is what I gather we are discussing) in the first place? Like EM, I would think harmonious sounds for one thing. If the average rapper really has something to "say", get themselves over to the next town meeting.

[Emperor Violenjiger]

Heavy Metal and all its sub-genres (Black Metal, Death Metal, Doom Metal, Speed Metal, Symphonic Metal, Trash Metal, Glam Metal, Party Metal... etc... because the list goes on and on) are superior to both rap and rock.

[godzillamoviemaster]

I hate rap with a passion as well. Anything from Black Eyed Peas to Snoop Dawg.... :crazy: It just is SO ANNOYING! Their songs are all the same! I mean, their lyrics dont have any meaning, there is nothing powerful or true to them. My strong hate for rap also includes any of that pop crap too. All of those pathetic teen bands get on my nerves! In fact, I am hardly able to go to a school dance because all they have it that stuff. ERRRRR... And while I am being a negative ned, I will also admit I dont like country music either. This is really bad for me, because I live in the middle of nowhere North Dakota, where our only claim to fame is that we had a bunch of cowboys run around. So, obviously, country music is everywhere! AHHHHHHHH!:angry:

Anyway, the some of the only music I listen too is rock anyway. I like anything from the classic bands like ACDC and Aerosmith, to heavy metal like Metallica, but I also really like newer stuff like from Crossfade and Nickelback (probably my favorite band right now). Nirvana is fun too.

[Goji Son]

I like rap to a degree but I loved rock. Rap was great back in the day but now any idiot thinks that he can rhyme to a beat to make a quick buck, but its the same with rock too as any group who can passably strum a guitar, bass, and bang on some drums can produce a crap album and have millions of teens going apeshit over them. Both have seen their golden years and both are definently in a rut lately.

[Solar_Behemoth]

Led Zeppelin, Alice Cooper, Aerosmith, Pink Floyd > Eminem, 50 Cent, Snoop Dogg

[Mecha-Rodan]

Rock by a landslide. I like music that can actually be classified as MUSIC, and not *beat/rhyme/repeat* Sure, the beats in rap/hip-hop can be good (even better when they drown out the lyrics, heh), but other than that I don't like rap that much. I have to tolerate it though, since most of my friends listen to it.

COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC: Has anybody listened to the War of the Worlds soundtrack? I was in Best Buy the other day, looking through the regular crap when I realized I wanted to hear something instrumental for a change. I don't like classical music, just movie soundtrack music... The Jurassic Park and Best of Godzilla soundtracks were really what got me into music to begin with.

EDIT: And on the matter of country music, I don't listen to it by choice, but if its on I'll tolerate it. Sometimes the songs are funny and cool, or inspire some good amount of southern pride... Skynard and Cash are the two artists that I'll intentionally stop to listen to though. *Paints a confederate flag on his car and is shot the next day after driving through the ghetto on a shortcut*

[Trauma]

Rock. ofcourse, it has instruments.

[Shadow]

(unless you count that goddam Aussie Keith Urban)

I love country music. (Big and Rich in particular)

I hate Keith Urban. The man cannot sing a song without yodeling in it somewhere.

As for me on this subject however. I prefer Rock. The classics, however are what I like to listen to.

AC/DC (which i'm suprised no one has mentioned), Guns n' Roses, Aerosmith, KISS, Queen, CCR, and so on and so forth. Thats what I like to rock out to.

*Puts in AC/DC's Ballbreaker CD*

[Goji Son]

Big and Rich rule....

Ironic, since they incorperate some rap in their music to...

[kent]

I used to hate rap until I ran into some more of Eminem's music. I will admit, however, I do not like all of his stuff...I guess the same can be said with some rock bands I listen to as well.
Anyways, I just recently got more into rap because of a personal downfall in late November. I needed something that could help me vent the anger and sadness I was feeling but at the same time to get me out of the funk I was in. I bought CDs left and right; rock and rap.
I also like some of 50 Cent's music but Eminem, IMO, is much better than he is.
I love rock as well. The majority of my music collection is rock.
In the end, I do like both, but I like Eminem's style of rap and some of 50 Cent's more so than that other stuff out in that genre. I guess, technically, one could argue that I like rock better because there are more groups out there I enjoy when compared to the rap genre. But take it as you will, I am going to say both.

[Shin lvl2 Goji]

Both for me. I'm not just a fan of rock or just a fan of rap, or any other genre. I'm a fan of music in general. I'll listen to Alice in Chains, Ghostface Killah, and Rob Dougan all back to back without a problem any time. Then throw in some other genres of music for good measure.


Both have seen their golden years and both are definently in a rut lately.


I definitely agree with that. I don't really listen to anything made recently past 2003 really except for some of the new songs from Disturbed. Everything else is from each genre when it had the talented artists doing their thing. For rock, well take a look at the State of the Rock Address thread. For rap there's a lot of the southern crunk artists like Lil Jon and others, plus anyway for the past few years hip hop has been in a bad state and a lot of fans have recognized it. What's needed is people with the right kind of skills and lyrics to get out there and get signed. Catchy beats alone do not a record make. The mainstream rappers really are the ones who give it a bad name, there are a ton of underground rappers with some crazy talent that never get signed or don't have the resources to promote themselves.


So I've never been a "I hate one and only like the other" person and there isn't a "Vs." thing for me. I'm a fan of both.

[RadoGoji]

I hate rap.

As for rock, it depends on what you mean by rock. I like a lot of metal and rock from the 80's and early 90's. Today's "rock" is nothing but emo crap that they just refer to as "punk," even though punk is more or less dead (I think Green Day's still around, but that's about it). Also, I hate southern rock. If I do listen to the radio, it's always on the classic rock stations, as they play all the good stuff, but 90% of the time it's crap like Lynard Skynard and John Mellencamp (or however you spell either of those). Of course, I don't listen to the radio often as I'm usually either listening to Rush or my CD I compiled of Super Sentai theme songs. :p

[Cole Deschain]

Eh. Of the two, I prefer rock.

Which is to say that it makes up a higher percentage of the stuff I listen to.

However, I've got some rap/hip-hop I like as well.

Oh yeah- on country music: Some is also good.

And while I may fall into the "rock" camp, I hate, loathe and despise Pink Floyd.

Thank you, that is all.

[Dr. Strangelove]

How is this even a contest? Its music( Rock n' Roll ) vs total garbarge( crap..err..rap ). Though..I do enjoy Classical, and Johnny Cash..but Queen>>All.

[Sauron]

I enjoy a very limited selection of rap, and most of that is from the 80's or early 90's.

Rock is my choice, but not the Emo crap found on today's radio stations. I much prefer the darker variety, such as gothic and industrial. And no, I don't consider Marilyn Manson gothic, just glam crap. Here's a few of my favorites:

Gothic:

Sisters of Mercy
The Mission UK
Christian Death
Bauhaus
The Wake

Industrial:

Front 242
KMFDM
Cobalt 60 (beware of the crappy emo band that stole this name though)
P.I.G.
Spahn Ranch
Rammstein
Prodigy
Nine Inch Nail

Other:

The Misfits
Danzig
Suicidal Tendincies
Tiger Army
Alice in Chains


Those are just some of my favorites. Ol' Goji Son has been pushing me to like classic rock for the last few years, but it has yet to totally grow on me. Speaking of which:

I hope you run into a brick wall and die.

Thank you ahead of time.

All we are is just another brick in the wall! Noob...

:darklord:

[Goji Son]

Ol' Goji Son has been pushing me to like classic rock for the last few years, but it has yet to totally grow on me.

You like Jethro Tull and latter Led Zeppelin, that's commendable, but if you make fun of another Zeppelin song I will be forced to kill you, take your mom out on a date and not call her the next day and then use your bathroom.

Every once and a while Gilbert O' Sullivan's "Alone Again" pops into my head and I weep for a good 8 hours. That's your influence, you *******.



All we are is just another brick in the wall! Noob...

:darklord:

Makes me want to gank myself sometimes...

Anyways, there is one rap group I enjoy and I believe has more talent than anyone else and they are The Roots. More soul than hip hop but they have style and substance much like Outkast, except they actually use real instruments in their songs.

[kritaya]

The classics, however are what I like to listen to...

*Puts in AC/DC's Ballbreaker CD*

LOL!! Classic...

*Puts in AC/DC's High Voltage CD and waits for Bon Scott's voice to make Brian Johnson's head explode*

And Pink Floyd's The Final Cut is incredible.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Rap is much better.

I prefer actual singing and use of instruments in my music, sorry, but i don't think rytheming should count for music. And thanks for an explaination for your reason.

[Zigra]

Rap is much better.

Oh, yes, a complete and utter lack of anything melodic or musical is sssoooo much better than actual music:sarcasm:

But, Brandon is right. There is some decent rap music out there, but most of it is "old school" stuff, and very much the exception to the rule.

I'd wish a fiery, overrated death upon Pink Floyd fans, but then I'd be the only living being left on Earth....

Hey, you'd still have me;)

[Cole Deschain]

You have a guy singing.

Which is more "musical" than simple chanting.

Just saying.

Perhaps it would behoove you to think your responses through a bit more carefully?

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

All I can say is I like rap alot more than rock.

[kritaya]

The lyrics are usually so raw and rap itself really has no limits and on what can be said.

All I can think about is that Dave Chappelle parody of "8 Mile" where he's rapping "Spaghetti, spaghetti, spaghetti, spaghetti...":laugh:

[Saruman]

I like rap better anway. That's my view. The lyrics are usaully so raw and rap itself really has no limits and on what can be said. Take away all the sounds and just have a guy straight out rap and it's still music but what happens when you take away all the noise from rock?

If you take away the music from Rock then you still have a singer, something a rapper is not. I guess you have never heard Freddie Mercury sing solo without any music.

There are limits to what can be said in Rock music? :eyebrow: Sorry there OPG, but there is just way more variety in Rock music than there is in Rap. Heck I can just take one form of Rock music "METAL" and that alone is so diverse that Rap could never even hope to match up to it. Want some examples of what Rock can cover......

Opera - Tobias Sammet's Avantasia "The Metal Opera pt. 1 & 2" is just what it is titled a Metal OPERA.

Historical - How about Iron Maidens "Paschendale" or "Montsegur". How about anything off of Iced Earths "The Glorious Burden" album where every song is about a major event or person in history.

Ballads - How about Metallica's "One", which won a grammy for best ballad.

Books - Songs that came about because of books, how about Iron Maidens "To Tame A Land" which is about DUNE. How about anything off of Blind Guardians "Nightfall In Middle Earth" album which is all about Tolkien's books.

Concept Albums - Albums that tell a complete story, like Queensryche's "Operation Mindcrime," Dio's "Magica," Iron Maiden's "Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son."

Activist Songs - Songs that speak out against certain things like Megadeth's "Countdown To Extinction" which won an award for speaking out against canned hunts. Queensryche "Operation Mindcrime" album is speaking out against the political goings on at the time.

That is just a VERY SMALL sampling that shows just how varied and all encompasing Rock music is and it's something that Rap music just can not compete with in that regard because it is not even close to being that varied. There isn't a subject that you can think of that Rock music has not touched upon.

[kritaya]

There isn't a subject that you can think of that Rock music has not touched upon.

Being a minority in a racist society? Getting pulled over by a cop for the color of your skin? Where was that prog-metal concept album dealing with the beating of Rodney King?:D

[Goji Son]

Where was that prog-metal concept album dealing with the beating of Rodney King?:D

Everyone was too busy whining about how life sucks and all the ****ing rain in Seattle.

[Goji Son]

If you take away the music from Rock then you still have a singer, something a rapper is not. I guess you have never heard Freddie Mercury sing solo without any music.

There are limits to what can be said in Rock music? :eyebrow: Sorry there OPG, but there is just way more variety in Rock music than there is in Rap. Heck I can just take one form of Rock music "METAL" and that alone is so diverse that Rap could never even hope to match up to it. Want some examples of what Rock can cover......

Opera - Tobias Sammet's Avantasia "The Metal Opera pt. 1 & 2" is just what it is titled a Metal OPERA.

Historical - How about Iron Maidens "Paschendale" or "Montsegur". How about anything off of Iced Earths "The Glorious Burden" album where every song is about a major event or person in history.

Ballads - How about Metallica's "One", which won a grammy for best ballad.

Books - Songs that came about because of books, how about Iron Maidens "To Tame A Land" which is about DUNE. How about anything off of Blind Guardians "Nightfall In Middle Earth" album which is all about Tolkien's books.

Concept Albums - Albums that tell a complete story, like Queensryche's "Operation Mindcrime," Dio's "Magica," Iron Maiden's "Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son."

Activist Songs - Songs that speak out against certain things like Megadeth's "Countdown To Extinction" which won an award for speaking out against canned hunts. Queensryche "Operation Mindcrime" album is speaking out against the political goings on at the time.

That is just a VERY SMALL sampling that shows just how varied and all encompasing Rock music is and it's something that Rap music just can not compete with in that regard because it is not even close to being that varied. There isn't a subject that you can think of that Rock music has not touched upon.


You can throw in Tommy by the Who and the Wall by Pink Floyd for concept albums and a couple of Tolkien inspired Zeppelin songs into the mix too.

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

All I can think about is that Dave Chappelle parody of "8 Mile" where he's rapping "Spaghetti, spaghetti, spaghetti, spaghetti...":laugh:

All I have to say is you have been listening to the wrong rap songs. Go with young geezy.

[Cole Deschain]

All I have to say is you have been listening to the wrong rap songs. Go with young geezy.

Pardon me if I pass.

[Zigra]

[QUOTE=Keizer Godzilla (OPG) Go with young geezy.[/QUOTE]

I've heard at least one of his "songs". All it does is reaffirm what I said earlier about mainstream rap.

[Doc Ock]

Ugh, most modern rap sucks. If there is ayone I like, let alone respect, it would be Ludacris, namely because the man can act as well (go watch Crash, you will see what I mean), and Jay-Z, somewhat.

Oldies rap is much better. DMC, Public Enemy, hell, even Ice-T is good. It's just that rock is so much better. I prefer a gitar solo over a rap rant.

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

Have you guys ever heard of the Wu-tang clan. They have the most agressive lyrics out there. Geto boys is raw. Method Man is also very raw. Have you guys forgotten about Lil Wayne? Or his song the Fireman. You guys don't know what your missing.

[Zigra]

Have you guys ever heard of the Wu-tang clan. They have the most agressive lyrics out there. Geto boys is raw. Method Man is also very raw. Have you guys forgotten about Lil Wayne? Or his song the Fireman. You guys don't know what your missing.

Lyrics don't mean a thing to me if these so-called "artists" aren't actually singing.

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

It sounds more raw to me.

[Zigra]

It sounds more raw to me.

If you mean "raw" as in uncooked and full of infectous E-Coli, then yes, I agree with you:p

[Cole Deschain]

Have you guys ever heard of the Wu-tang clan. They have the most agressive lyrics out there. Geto boys is raw. Method Man is also very raw. Have you guys forgotten about Lil Wayne? Or his song the Fireman. You guys don't know what your missing.

Back when I was a folklore major, I took a course on hip-hop culture.

Rest assured, I have a very good idea of what I'm "missing."

[kritaya]

If you mean "raw" as in uncooked and full of infectous E-Coli, then yes, I agree with you:p

ROFL!

Raw is the problem. I wouldn't mind, and I don't mind, listening to rap that has some meaning to it. But if it's just bling bling, bullets and biyotches, forget it.

[Bruticus]

I've yet to see any rap artist break the mold of what is expected from the genre, musically or otherwise. Sure, sometimes the lyrics deal with human issues and the like... but so does metal. And the latter can cover so much ground on its own that it's like the Middle-Earth of genres. If you don't believe me, I suggest you compare these songs to each other:

Moondance by Nightwish
No Remorse by Metallica
Entering Eternity by Falconer
The Crown and the Ring by Manowar
Twist the Knife by Napalm Death
Lord of the Thunder by Rhapsody

For the most part, these songs are very different from each other in sound, but are still metal. Meanwhile, I bet I could probably compare several rap songs to each other and hear little difference in sound.

[Dark Warrior]

Best example of rocks versitility, in my mind lies with Frank Zappa. The man tried his damndest (and, probably succeeded) in comparing virtually every form of music with rock, and matching it with great lyrics (even though they are mostly sarcastic, satrical, biting, occasionaly disgusting etc...but still awesome). Should check him out...whole lotta albums though.

Jam bands aswell are a great example of bands combing rock with other genres, like the Dead, The Allman Brothers band, Phish etc. And sometimes, great lyrics aswell, some deep and raw.

And if you really wanna get pissy (which, I feel like, to be fair)you could argue Bob Dylan invented rap with his vocal delievery to Subterrean Homesick Blues. The resembelence is certainly there, sans the hip hop beats and what not. And Dylan for lyrics... best there ever was.

But, you know, OPG if you like rap, its cool, I can dig that. I mean, the world be a boring place if everyone one liked the same thing. Good to have variety in abundance. So keep on rappin' (or something like that)

To everyone else, keep on Truckin' (like the doodah man...):music:

[superkaiju]

it all depends for me. I'll listen to stuff like atmosphere, immortal technique, 2pac, good eminem songs and stuff. I mainly listen to rock while I'm running or working out or before i go train because it hypes me up, but it can't be any rock it has to be a certain type, like a few metallica songs, some rob zombie, a few stemm songs. I don't wanna listen to the type of rock that's all AHHHHHkazzablahgogobaaaaaaa ya know the stuff you can't understand and just have you're singer blabbing out nonsense. Same with rap, I'll listen to some rap songs before i go train but it can't be the dumb type rap....well i hate the dumb type rap...like Jay-Z, and whatshisface that's really annoying....forgot his name he had beef with 50 cent i hate that type of rap ya know the "i love ladies and fried rice with fries, basketball is for all" kind of stuff. So i like both but certain types.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm sorry, but I see Eminem and ' good ' in the same sentance. Yes, lets correct that...with a word such as ' bad ', or ' gut-wrenching painful ', or my personal faveorite ' White Trash '.

[Saruman]

I'm sorry, but I see Eminem and ' good ' in the same sentance. Yes, lets correct that...with a word such as ' bad ', or ' gut-wrenching painful ', or my personal faveorite ' White Trash '.

Actually Eminem is one of the few Rappers that I actually like, Beastie Boys would be the other. The man is incredibly talented, whether you like him or not, makes no difference in that regard. He writes great lyrics, he can rap and sing, he can act, he can produce, and hes very driven. He likes the "bad boy" stigma that he has created because it generates a tremendous amount of publicity for him for free. In a way he's pretty much Rap's version of Marilyn Manson, another incredibly talented person, though Eminem is not quite as extreme as Manson.

[bloodyarts]

I wouldn't call most rock lead singers, "singers", either. Freddie Mercury was a singer, Rob Zombie is not. Robert Plant can sing, Courtney Love cannot. Meatloaf can sing his *** off, David Draiman... no.

And let's be honest, rock lyrics aren't exactly Shakespeare, or even very deep. Most are pretty simplistic.

Also, MANY rock bands can be classified as White Trash. Drug addicts, dropouts, alcoholics, womanizers, lowlifes, criminal backgrounds, etc. Yep, Rock's got 'em covered.

I respect and love rock music too, but you guys are tripping over yourselves to make it God's music to illustrate how much you hate rap. Personally, I think Jazz trumps all.

Finally, the outcome of this poll is no surprise. If I had to guess, I would say 90% of the members here are white males, ages 16-30 (I'm guessing, so maybe a "What's your ethnicity" thread would paint a clearer picture). If the same topic were held at say, BET.com, what do you think the result would be? On a more racially mixed board, this poll would make more sense. A more appropriate thread title here would be, "Rap sucks!".

[godofPH]

I wouldn't call most rock lead singers, "singers", either. Freddie Mercury was a singer, Rob Zombie is not. Robert Plant can sing, Courtney Love cannot. Meatloaf can sing his *** off, David Draiman... no.

And let's be honest, rock lyrics aren't exactly Shakespeare, or even very deep. Most are pretty simplistic.

Also, MANY rock bands can be classified as White Trash. Drug addicts, dropouts, alcoholics, womanizers, lowlifes, criminal backgrounds, etc. Yep, Rock's got 'em covered.

I respect and love rock music too, but you guys are tripping over yourselves to make it God's music to illustrate how much you hate rap. Personally, I think Jazz trumps all.

Finally, the outcome of this poll is no surprise. If I had to guess, I would say 90% of the members here are white males, ages 16-30 (I'm guessing, so maybe a "What's your ethnicity" thread would paint a clearer picture). If the same topic were held at say, BET.com, what do you think the result would be? On a more racially mixed board, this poll would make more sense. A more appropriate thread title here would be, "Rap sucks!".

A very good post bloodyarts. I happen to agree with everything you said. Except for that jazz part...country is what triumphs all :p

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

Please Wu-tang clan owns all these rock bands shaolin style!

[Dr. Strangelove]

I wouldn't call most rock lead singers, "singers", either. Freddie Mercury was a singer, Rob Zombie is not. Robert Plant can sing, Courtney Love cannot. Meatloaf can sing his *** off, David Draiman... no.

And let's be honest, rock lyrics aren't exactly Shakespeare, or even very deep. Most are pretty simplistic.

Also, MANY rock bands can be classified as White Trash. Drug addicts, dropouts, alcoholics, womanizers, lowlifes, criminal backgrounds, etc. Yep, Rock's got 'em covered.

I respect and love rock music too, but you guys are tripping over yourselves to make it God's music to illustrate how much you hate rap. Personally, I think Jazz trumps all.

Finally, the outcome of this poll is no surprise. If I had to guess, I would say 90% of the members here are white males, ages 16-30 (I'm guessing, so maybe a "What's your ethnicity" thread would paint a clearer picture). If the same topic were held at say, BET.com, what do you think the result would be? On a more racially mixed board, this poll would make more sense. A more appropriate thread title here would be, "Rap sucks!". And what, may I ask, does the COLOR OF YOUR SKING, have to do with this? I'm Native American, and I loathe rap with a burning passion. Also, statistics show, straight white males are the majority of the people useing the internet. Got a problem with it? Get some of your ' racially diffrent ' freinds on the bloody internet.

[Dark Warrior]

I wouldn't call most rock lead singers, "singers", either. Freddie Mercury was a singer, Rob Zombie is not. Robert Plant can sing, Courtney Love cannot. Meatloaf can sing his *** off, David Draiman... no.

And let's be honest, rock lyrics aren't exactly Shakespeare, or even very deep. Most are pretty simplistic.

Also, MANY rock bands can be classified as White Trash. Drug addicts, dropouts, alcoholics, womanizers, lowlifes, criminal backgrounds, etc. Yep, Rock's got 'em covered.

I respect and love rock music too, but you guys are tripping over yourselves to make it God's music to illustrate how much you hate rap. Personally, I think Jazz trumps all.

Finally, the outcome of this poll is no surprise. If I had to guess, I would say 90% of the members here are white males, ages 16-30 (I'm guessing, so maybe a "What's your ethnicity" thread would paint a clearer picture). If the same topic were held at say, BET.com, what do you think the result would be? On a more racially mixed board, this poll would make more sense. A more appropriate thread title here would be, "Rap sucks!".

Out of interest, seeing as you are probably an expierenced jazz fan what jazz albums are best for a beginner, Ie me. Already own Kind of Blue, *****es Brew and Sketchs of Spain by Miles Davies, Love Supreme and Sheets of Sound by John Coltrane and School Days by Stanley Clark and thinking of buying Moanin by Art Blakey and Coltrane live with /monk at Carnegie hall? (actually, Epistrophy sounds so good on that, so i'm gonna get it anyway). Any others that I could buy? Any advice would be helpful.

So far I'm finding Jazz cool, and got into via The Allman Brothers Band and The Grateful Dead who I think are both awesome, Dead most so and I have heard mnay jazz people say both there jams are equal to jazz work and from the jazz i've heard, I'll agree (sorry, I get very pissy and defensive over the Dead, ******* Jerry and co were awesome)...anyway, if you do offer suggestions then they'll be greatly appreaciated.

And I'm getting into country music aswell...well, instrumental bluegrass and old timey stuff such as Dock Boggs and Roscoe Halcomb (again from the Dead) and looking to by Johnny Cash's two live albums, Folsom Prision and San Quentin. Sorry if I offend anyone, but country such as Hank Williams and what not just annoys me...but from what I've heard from Cash, me likes.

And, finally...Wu Tang owns no one...more talent in Dylans little finger:p (joking incase I accidenty cause a riot)...and Dylan has deep lyrics, if that little bit tad confusing.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough here, so toodles.

[Cole Deschain]

I agree with most of what Bloodyarts had to say...

However-

Personally, I think Jazz trumps all.

Now it's war. ;)

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

And what, may I ask, does the COLOR OF YOUR SKING, have to do with this? I'm Native American, and I loathe rap with a burning passion. Also, statistics show, straight white males are the majority of the people useing the internet. Got a problem with it? Get some of your ' racially diffrent ' freinds on the bloody internet.

Get out on the bloody streets once and awhile and see what he's talking about.

[bloodyarts]

And what, may I ask, does the COLOR OF YOUR SKING, have to do with this? I'm Native American, and I loathe rap with a burning passion. Also, statistics show, straight white males are the majority of the people useing the internet. Got a problem with it? Get some of your ' racially diffrent ' freinds on the bloody internet.

Why the hostility?

The color of SKING has nothing to do with it. But go to your CD retailer and peruse the CD covers in the rock section. Then notice what ethnicity 99% of them happen to be. Is it still a great mystery that people of the same ethnicity would comprise the overwhelming majority of those in the "like" category?

Again, hold the same poll at BET.com and tell me what the results are. Then come back with that comment about SKING.

Some of my best friends are Native American ;)

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

He probably has no clue to what some peoples lifes are like. That is why msot white people missunderstand gangsters and main street hustlers.

[Goji Son]

That is why msot white people missunderstand gangsters and main street hustlers.

Ok... considering that there are (and have been) white gangsters and street hustlers, I am sure it's a non desciminate profession. And what does that have to do with rap?

[kritaya]

He probably has no clue to what some peoples lifes are like. That is why msot white people missunderstand gangsters and main street hustlers.

Yo yo, Duncan G-Money! Word up.:p

Then come back with that comment about SKING.

Bodie Miller, fashizzelmanizzel!:laugh:

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

Ok... considering that there are (and have been) white gangsters and street hustlers, I am sure it's a non desciminate profession. And what does that have to do with rap?

Don't know somehow this thread kind of just took that direction as Dr stranglove was talking about skin color.

[Zigra]

Don't know somehow this thread kind of just took that direction as Dr stranglove was talking about skin color.


On the contrary, Bloodyarts was the one who first played the "race card" on this matter, not Strangelove. And it's a bunch of nonsense. I've seen plenty of blacks who dislike the whole ghetto/gansta "culture", and I've known plenty of whites who are into it (never have I seen more of a hilarious sight than some twenty-something white guy driving down the street, his car radio blasting loud gansta rap music, and him trying to do all the hand movements while trying to drive at the same time). It's true that a majority of the rap "artists" and groups that record companies slap together are black (nevermind that the men who are actually producing these albums are a bunch of rich white guys like Ted Field), but the music fanbase is nowhere near as racially discriminate.

From what I've seen, the sort of music that people are interested in has a lot more to do with age than race. The reason such genres as rap/hip hop and these Green Day-wannabe garage rock bands are so popular is because that is what the music industry has chosen to shove down the throats of our youth, and as a result, that's all that the younger people really know. If you ask people from an older generation, regardless of race, about their music preferences, you'll get quite a different picture.

[bloodyarts]

On the contrary, Bloodyarts was the one who first played the "race card" on this matter, not Strangelove. And it's a bunch of nonsense.

If you ask people from an older generation, regardless of race, about their music preferences, you'll get quite a different picture.

Yes, I pulled the race card, but not for lack of other evidence, but because in this case, it's relevant. There's 4 pages of proof right here, so far.

And I gather if you polled a crowd of people age 45 and over whether they prefer rock or R&B (I doubt rap would hold any appeal to many in that age range, so I chose a more suitable equivalent), I guarantee you'll see similar results; two clear camps, one made up of a MAJORITY of one ethnicity, the other made of a MAJORITY of the other.

Of course there's black people who prefer rock and white people who prefer rap, that goes without saying. Hell, there's Japanese people who love rap and Indians who love rock. That's what makes music universal. But to say race has nothing or little to do with it is ignorance. You want to talk about what you've seen, let me tell you what I've seen:

Where were all those black kids that MTV shoved Green Day at? How come I didn't see them representing at the Green Day concert I attended? They couldn't afford to go?

When I saw Jay-Z at Madison Square Garden, I saw lots of white kids there. But guess which race I saw A LOT MORE of? Yup, dem po' neegroes.

Saw the Ohio Players and Chaka khan one New Years Eve... an older crowd of 30-somethings and up like me... didn't see a huge mixing of races there either. Some whites, but LARGELY a black crowd.

Saw Garbage back in '98 or '99 (big fan, I). There was no pepper in that salt. The rock scene is dominated by young white males, rap is dominated by young black males (and while there are many white rap producers, there's actually a fair amount of not just black but Asian and other nationalities producing). This is not chess. Age is a factor, but it goes deeper than that.

Artists can go on to gain universal appeal and gather fans of every nationality, but even those artists' fanbase will consist of a majority and a minority. The only exceptions I've seen this at were Prince concerts, Blondie concerts and numerous jazz shows. In fact, at a jazz show, it's almost a completely equal mix of black and white fans and musicians.

[Saruman]

I wouldn't call most rock lead singers, "singers", either. Freddie Mercury was a singer, Rob Zombie is not. Robert Plant can sing, Courtney Love cannot. Meatloaf can sing his *** off, David Draiman... no.

Meatloaf can sing, lol sorry there, I like the guy a lot but hes not that great. David Draiman can sing VERY well, hes has one of the most powerful voices in rock, not to mention incredible range.

And let's be honest, rock lyrics aren't exactly Shakespeare, or even very deep. Most are pretty simplistic.

Then you obvisouly don't know much about rock or metal other then what you hear on the radio.

Also, MANY rock bands can be classified as White Trash. Drug addicts, dropouts, alcoholics, womanizers, lowlifes, criminal backgrounds, etc. Yep, Rock's got 'em covered.

LOL

I respect and love rock music too, but you guys are tripping over yourselves to make it God's music to illustrate how much you hate rap. Personally, I think Jazz trumps all.

You respect rock music too, but post that they are white trash, criminals, ect., ect., ect. Excuse my laughing at such a hypocritical statement.

Finally, the outcome of this poll is no surprise. If I had to guess, I would say 90% of the members here are white males, ages 16-30 (I'm guessing, so maybe a "What's your ethnicity" thread would paint a clearer picture). If the same topic were held at say, BET.com, what do you think the result would be? On a more racially mixed board, this poll would make more sense. A more appropriate thread title here would be, "Rap sucks!".

You really need to do some research there guy. The largest group of people buying Rap records is WHITE males between the ages of 14-21. The majority of the black people that I know, and I know a lot as I work with many, don't even care all that much for "mainstream" rap like 50 Cent, ect... They listen to more "less well know" or underground Rap if and when they do listen to it.

I don't think I have seen a post on this forum that has stereotyped so many types of people or races as this one, good job.:sarcasm:

[bloodyarts]

Meatloaf can sing, lol sorry there, I like the guy a lot but hes not that great. David Draiman can sing VERY well, hes has one of the most powerful voices in rock, not to mention incredible range.

You don't think Meatloaf can sing? Man...
I can't stand Draiman, sorry. He doesn't impress me at all.


Then you obvisouly don't know much about rock or metal other then what you hear on the radio.

Admittedly, radio forms the majority of my opinion on the genre, but I always check out bands I've never heard of if someone mentions they're good.

You respect rock music too, but post that they are white trash, criminals, ect., ect., ect. Excuse my laughing at such a hypocritical statement.

I can't love the genre because it's comprised of real people and not angels? Would you have a hard time believing I like rap too, even though some of it endorses murder, drug selling and disrespect of women?

You really need to do some research there guy. The largest group of people buying Rap records is WHITE males between the ages of 14-21. The majority of the black people that I know, and I know a lot as I work with many, don't even care all that much for "mainstream" rap like 50 Cent, ect... They listen to more "less well know" or underground Rap if and when they do listen to it.

I work with lots of black and white people, too and when we have discussions about music, it usually ends up just like this thread: Rock rules, rap sucks! Rap rules, rock sucks! And I've gone to rap and rock concerts and I ALWAYS see an overwhelming WHITE majority at a rock show, and an overwhelming majority of BLACK fans at rap and r&b concerts. I'm going by witness testimony, not statistics.

I don't think I have seen a post on this forum that has stereotyped so many types of people or races as this one, good job.:sarcasm:

Not so hard when you put your mind to it. ;)

[Saruman]

Yes, I pulled the race card, but not for lack of other evidence, but because in this case, it's relevant. There's 4 pages of proof right here, so far.

Flawed proof because the largest consumer of music in every category is white males.

And I gather if you polled a crowd of people age 45 and over whether they prefer rock or R&B (I doubt rap would hold any appeal to many in that age range, so I chose a more suitable equivalent), I guarantee you'll see similar results; two clear camps, one made up of a MAJORITY of one ethnicity, the other made of a MAJORITY of the other.

Then I feel sad for you because I know many people that enjoy both Rock & R&B who are over 45. Music knows no color until people like you give it one.

Of course there's black people who prefer rock and white people who prefer rap, that goes without saying. Hell, there's Japanese people who love rap and Indians who love rock. That's what makes music universal. But to say race has nothing or little to do with it is ignorance. You want to talk about what you've seen, let me tell you what I've seen:

Where were all those black kids that MTV shoved Green Day at? How come I didn't see them representing at the Green Day concert I attended? They couldn't afford to go?

When I saw Jay-Z at Madison Square Garden, I saw lots of white kids there. But guess which race I saw A LOT MORE of? Yup, dem po' neegroes.

Saw the Ohio Players and Chaka khan one New Years Eve... an older crowd of 30-somethings and up like me... didn't see a huge mixing of races there either. Some whites, but LARGELY a black crowd.

Saw Garbage back in '98 or '99 (big fan, I). There was no pepper in that salt. The rock scene is dominated by young white males, rap is dominated by young black males (and while there are many white rap producers, there's actually a fair amount of not just black but Asian and other nationalities producing). This is not chess. Age is a factor, but it goes deeper than that.

Wow, you just keep stereotyping like crazy. Where does the 250 thousand Hispanic people that got to see Iron Maiden factor in? Where does that same 250 thousand Hispanic people that saw RUSH factor in?

Maybe once you stop thinking that "America" is the end all and be all of the music industry you might realize that your views do not reflect that of other countries and the music industry as a whole, but rather just a stereotype that your giving to the American audience.

Artists can go on to gain universal appeal and gather fans of every nationality, but even those artists' fanbase will consist of a majority and a minority. The only exceptions I've seen this at were Prince concerts, Blondie concerts and numerous jazz shows. In fact, at a jazz show, it's almost a completely equal mix of black and white fans and musicians.

Your trying to sell everyone that color is the biggest factor in music, which it clearly is not. The biggest factor is what appeals to each individual and how the music speaks to them and makes them feel. There is plenty of rock/metal music I can't stand, but its still what I most enjoy listening to and that has no bearing on the color of the singers skin. when I pop in a CD or turn o the radio I don't see a group of white guys or black guys or Hispanic guys, because there is nothing to see, its all about hearing and feelings, sight only comes into play when your watching MTV or at a concert, neither of which are the best things to judge by since most people that buy music do not go to very many concerts.

Ever been to a Beastie Boys concert? Very diverse crowd.
How about RUN DMC? Again very diverse crowd
When I saw Plant & Page not only was the crowd very diverse racially, but it was also very diverse by age.

I'll pose something to you and this is not musically related but racially related. Going by your logic, the same line of thinking would be applied across the board. So then tell me why Whoopie Goldberg draws mostly white people when doing stand-up? Why did Richard Pryor draw a diverse crowd? Why does Eddie Murphy draw diverse crowds? Why does Robbin Williams draw mostly white crowds? Why does Jim Carey draw diverse crowds?

It has nothing to do with the color of their skin, it has to do with the material they are presenting and how it effects you and how you react/relate to it. Most white people don't sit around and go "Oh Whoppie Goldberg is black so I won't go to her show." You go to things that you relate to.

Would I go to a 50 Cent concert, NO, but would I go to a Will Smith concert, Yes. Now why is that? They are both black rappers and I don't care for Rap in general, so what would make me want to go to one over the other? Can't use skin color as a crutch here, so whats the difference?

[bloodyarts]

Alright, I'm not going to keep fanning the flames. I'm done after this. If you don't agree with me, fine.

... largest consumer of music in every category is white males.

The question was posed here, not to the world. In here, it's obvious which genre has more fans, regardless of who's, statistically speaking, buying.

Then I feel sad for you because I know many people that enjoy both Rock & R&B who are over 45. Music knows no color until people like you give it one.

So do I. We can talk about our personal experiences all day, and we'll both end up right where we started. And I think you're seeing with eyes wide shut if you really believe music has NO color.

Wow, you just keep stereotyping like crazy. Where does the 250 thousand Hispanic people that got to see Iron Maiden factor in? Where does that same 250 thousand Hispanic people that saw RUSH factor in?

I guess that concensus on who's buying the most music missed them.

Maybe once you stop thinking that "America" is the end all and be all of the music industry you might realize that your views do not reflect that of other countries and the music industry as a whole, but rather just a stereotype that your giving to the American audience.

I'll accept that.

Your trying to sell everyone that color is the biggest factor in music, which it clearly is not.

No, I'm not. I'm saying it's one of the factors, period. Other people here are acting like it's not at all, and to me that's being incredibly naive.

Ever been to a Beastie Boys concert? Very diverse crowd.
How about RUN DMC? Again very diverse crowd
When I saw Plant & Page not only was the crowd very diverse racially, but it was also very diverse by age.

Yes to the first two, and as before, the Beasties were attended by a MAJORITY of white fans. Yes, there were many other nationalities there, but you'd be blind not to see that the majority of the crowd was white. Same thing for the Run DMC concert I attended during the Raising Hell Tour. It was diverse, but there was an obvious MAJORITY, and that's what I've been trying to get at. I've seen The Song Remains The Same on DVD. Yes, it was very diverse age-wise, but the fans all looked the same (ethnically speaking) to me. I haven't seen Plant & Page (I wanted to. How was it?), but I'm willing to bet while the crowd was diverse, there was an obvious MAJORITY.

I don't care who the statistics say are buying what, I'm going by discussions I've had with others about the topic (which is OFTEN, at work) and what I've SEEN with my own eyes at various professional and amateur venues. My entire point is, there is an obvious MAJORITY, and it was proven (once again) right in this very thread. It's really nothing to get all that huffy about, it's just a fact that most people can deal with.

[Goji Son]

When I saw Plant & Page not only was the crowd very diverse racially, but it was also very diverse by age.


*Blood boils with envy*

[Bjrayzilla]

I've never liked Rock at all, just thought it was annoying. I like Rap better.

[godzillamoviemaster]

And as it currently stands- for every 1 rap liker on the board, we have 10 rock lovers. Yey!

[Zigra]

Bloodyarts, frankly I don't see this "majority" you're talking about. Perhaps I'm just not "getting out" to the rest of the world enough, but up here where I live, there doesn't seem to be the racial divide in music intrests that you insist there would be. The majority of younger people here, [Iregardless of their race[/I], seem to be into rap and hip hop (which is a sign of the poor taste people have up here:nonono2: )

And still, I think this idea that skin color has something to do with one's music intrests is a load of garbage. Is it really too hard to accept that perhaps the reason the people who voted for rock did so because they simply prefer something that has a melody and where people actually sing, and rock offers a lot more of that than rap usually does? Somehow, I highly doubt skin color has anything to do with that viewpoint.

That, and how do you know that the majority of people who took that poll are white (since you've insisted that it's been proven in this thread)? I've only seen 2 or 3 people in this thread who voted reveal their race to you, and one of the rock voters was Native American, not white. What knowledge of people's ethnicity in this thread do you have beyond your personal presumptions?

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

At both my schools (one which has 2,000 kids) they all like rap better than rock.

[Dr. Strangelove]

At both my schools (one which has 2,000 kids) they all like rap better than rock.
Yes. Tasteless, anoying, and mentally unstable children.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

At both my schools (one which has 2,000 kids) they all like rap better than rock.


Bullshit. I don't belive that for a second.

[Zigra]

Actually, I do believe it. I went to an upper-middle class, predominately white high school, and rap was one of the most popular forms of music, followed by Green Day-wannabe garage bands. From what I've heard since I graduated, things have only gotten worse. Again, I attribute this more to these forms of music being what is shoved down the throats of our youngsters nowadays. Most older people I know (once again, regardless of race) find these forms of "music" utterly distasteful.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Actually, I do believe it. I went to an upper-middle class, predominately white high school, and rap was the most popular form of music

He said every student. Out of 2000 kids with dozens of groups and social class, and they all like the Ghetto Nursery Rythmes?



Not buying it.

[Zigra]

He said every student. Out of 2000 kids with dozens of groups and social class, and they all like the Ghetto Nursery Rythmes?



Not buying it.


Yeah, that's true. Probably the majority of students may be into rap, but somehow I doubt he learned the opinions of everybody.

Edit: For some reason, instead of "the majority of students may be into rap", the words "probably knew he felt that way" was written instead. I have no idea why I wrote that, but I've corrected it.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Yeah, that's true. Probably the majority of students he knew felt that way,

Of course they did. Chances are there Rap fans to.

[Raptor]

At both my schools (one which has 2,000 kids) they all like rap better than rock.ALL? Now this is proof I would really like to see! :sarcasm:

[kritaya]

ALL? Now this is proof I would really like to see! :sarcasm:

He goes to Fo' Shizzle My Nizza middle school, so...

[Raptor]

I thought it was a PRE-school for some reason... :eh: Still, those stats would surely put it in the "alternative" category.

[bloodyarts]

Bloodyarts, frankly I don't see this "majority" you're talking about. Perhaps I'm just not "getting out" to the rest of the world enough...

Maybe that's it, then.

And still, I think this idea that skin color has something to do with one's music intrests is a load of garbage.

Again, you're missing my point. I'm not saying people like a genre of music BECAUSE of their race, that's stupid. I already said I preferred jazz, which as far as I'm concerned, is one of the most racially diverse genres out there. There's no huge disparity there like you find with rock or rap.

That, and how do you know that the majority of people who took that poll are white (since you've insisted that it's been proven in this thread)?

I don't, which is why I clearly stated (twice) that I was guessing. Since strangelove is the only one that came out and said he was not white and preferred rock, I'm still right. (and for all I know, Keizer (OPG), who preferred rap and got jumped on for it, might not be black).

And if I'm wrong, so? I made a best guess based on past experience. That still doesn't discount other polls I've participated in or what I've observed at various shows and concerts. Obviously, your experiences differ, and I'm fine with that.

I'm baffled that this thread has devolved to this point. To sit here and argue about my personal experiences further is a circular argument and a waste of time. My apologies, all.

[godzillamoviemaster]

Yes. Tasteless, anoying, and mentally unstable children.

Hey now, we arent all tasteless (But notice I diddnt deny those other two) However it is unfortuanately true that most kids do like rap "music". I dont know why, but it is true. It is sorta wierd though. We have a bunch of white guys here who, to be cool i suppose, act like a "gangsta". that means they talk with all of the slang they can think of (crazy stuff like "G-Dawg", what ever the hell that means), always wear the sorts way too big for them around their knees so their boxers show, where the huge basket basket ball shirts, fail all of the classes possible, you know that kind of stuff. These are the "cool kids" I guess- I frankly never cared. The funny part is that most of them cant rap anyway and they will work at McDonalds for the rest of their existance. Ewww...

[Raptor]

Since this topic has gone beyond the usual "list" or either/or stage with some well considered discussion, I figured I would hit the search engine and try to find out just how prevalent appreciation of rap is. Unfortunately, THIS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1220271.stm) is about the most current online commentary I could find and is from 2001.
It's always a good idea to see where something might be coming from; its history (http://www.jahsonic.com/Rap.html), if you will, especially if one does not particularly agree with it. This is just one of several pages you can pull up. There are also learned essays on the subject from various universities which I find interesting, such as this one (http://www.hiphop-network.com/articles/mcarticles/evolutionofrapmusic.asp) which is presented in a very readable format. However it is unfortuanately true that most kids do like rap "music".Considering some of the more popular selections, I agree.
WARNING: THERE IS STRONG LANGUAGE AT THIS LINK! The Ironic Appeal of Rap Music to White Adolescents (http://www.louisville.edu/%7Eabcook01/music.html) is rather interesting if one wishes to look at the sociological workings of human beings of about any age, especially when it comes to group dynamics. Certain elements of the genre do not set well with the mainstream, having resulted in everything from school dress codes to folks wondering why they didn't land a job. That would be the "fashion statement" part alone.I dont know why, but it is true. It is sorta wierd though. We have a bunch of white guys here who, to be cool i suppose, act like a "gangsta". that means they talk with all of the slang they can think of (crazy stuff like "G-Dawg", what ever the hell that means), always wear the sorts way too big for them around their knees so their boxers show, where the huge basket basket ball shirts, fail all of the classes possible, you know that kind of stuff. These are the "cool kids" I guess- I frankly never cared. The funny part is that most of them cant rap anyway and they will work at McDonalds for the rest of their existance. Ewww...I gather they are looking for identity but are keying on the wrong role models. This country does have social issues but why glorify them and even worse, possibly add to the problem, such as in the (NYC?) case of pre-teen girls pimping? Is the media (http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/tcom/faculty/ha/tcom103spring2002/gp3/index.pdf) driving the popularity of rap because there is money in it? Again, I believe (in the case of younger kids), it is not having proper guidance from their parents where they are informed of the WARNING: THERE IS STRONG LANGUAGE AT THIS LINK! darker nuances (http://www.hilary.com/features/rap.html) the genre keys on all too frequently. Don't they teach Music Appreciation in school anymore? :sarcasm: Sure, with all the concerns about our schools "failing" in their mission in so many ways and not having sufficient funding, I can only say that the past efforts sure surpassed what we're seeing now. And that goes for a lot of parents also.

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

ALL? Now this is proof I would really like to see! :sarcasm:

How should I prove it. You want to travle to a different country and come to my school just to see that I am right? Be my quest. Rap is just as popular as rock though.

[Raptor]

How should I prove it. You want to travle to a different country and come to my school just to see that I am right? Be my quest. Rap is just as popular as rock though.When one makes a statement such as you did earlier, you had better be able to back it up somehow.
As for coming up there and seeing for myself, since when is WISCONSIN in a different country than Arkansas? :sarcasm: That school of yours had better do something about their geography lesson plans BIG TIME. :O But I don't think any of us will bother to expend the effort as you have just gone and refuted your own claim with rock being AS POPULAR as rap. Maybe you better trade in that Walkman or whatever has been frying your brain for an atlas...

[Dr. Strangelove]

When one makes a statement such as you did earlier, you had better be able to back it up somehow.
As for coming up there and seeing for myself, since when is WISCONSIN in a different country than Arkansas? :sarcasm: That school of yours had better do something about their geography lesson plans BIG TIME. :O But I don't think any of us will bother to expend the effort as you have just gone and refuted your own claim with rock being AS POPULAR as rap. Maybe you better trade in that Walkman or whatever has been frying your brain for an atlas...
I hate to go off topic..but I must ask: If you can call him stupid, and not be warned, why can't I call him retarded, yet I do get warned? I'm not trying to make you look bad, just wondering ^__^.

[Raptor]

I hate to go off topic..but I must ask: If you can call him stupid, and not be warned, why can't I call him retarded, yet I do get warned? I'm not trying to make you look bad, just wondering ^__^.No problem. That only makes them mroe determined to have it their way if their hit in anyway or arrested. - OPG
That is about the stupidest thing you have posted on this forum. - my post. I was referring to his STATEMENT.

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

When one makes a statement such as you did earlier, you had better be able to back it up somehow.
As for coming up there and seeing for myself, since when is WISCONSIN in a different country than Arkansas? :sarcasm: That school of yours had better do something about their geography lesson plans BIG TIME. :O But I don't think any of us will bother to expend the effort as you have just gone and refuted your own claim with rock being AS POPULAR as rap. Maybe you better trade in that Walkman or whatever has been frying your brain for an atlas...

WHO said I live in wisonsin.

[Raptor]

WHO said I live in wisonsin.Not WHO but WHOIS (http://www.internic.net/whois.html).

[Cyndi]

I don't like rap because I don't think a person speaking over a droning drum beat is being the least bit musical. Yes they do change their tone and the pitch of their voice, but it's hardly music.

In the same vein, I can't stand heavy metal where all the singers do is scream out the lyrics. Just listening to it makes my vocal cords pucker in sympathy.

I find that Marilyn Manson has a nice voice, oddly. He could probably sing beautifully if he really wanted to. Steven Tyler is another rocker who has good pipes when he wants to. I bet all of those rockers out there have great voices when they really SING.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I don't like rap because I don't think a person speaking over a droning drum beat is being the least bit musical. Yes they do change their tone and the pitch of their voice, but it's hardly music.

In the same vein, I can't stand heavy metal where all the singers do is scream out the lyrics. Just listening to it makes my vocal cords pucker in sympathy.

I find that Marilyn Manson has a nice voice, oddly. He could probably sing beautifully if he really wanted to. Steven Tyler is another rocker who has good pipes when he wants to. I bet all of those rockers out there have great voices when they really SING.
I love Metal, but I loathe Screamo. If you want, I think you'd like Rammstein. If you want to try some, I've got...most of all they've done on my Harddrive, so just ask. It's German metal, and the lyrics flow...extremely smoothly.

[Jet Jaguar]

Some Old Skool Rap I like, but this "Gangsta" stuff is just absurd
And how boring is the liberal use of the "F" word? It just shows a lack of creativity

"It's gotta be Rock and Roll music, if ya wanna dance with me..":gamera:

[Saruman]

In the same vein, I can't stand heavy metal where all the singers do is scream out the lyrics. Just listening to it makes my vocal cords pucker in sympathy.

You really should clarify this more as there are many different types of Metal. What exactly are you considering "screaming?" Can you name some examples? Heavy Metal is my favorite genre of music but there is plenty that I don't like, such as Doom Metal, Black Metal, ect.

I find that Marilyn Manson has a nice voice, oddly. He could probably sing beautifully if he really wanted to. Steven Tyler is another rocker who has good pipes when he wants to. I bet all of those rockers out there have great voices when they really SING.

Manson has an incredible voice with great vocal range. His problem is many people don't give him a chance because they get put off by the appearance and what they hear about him. Which is sad because the man is so extremely talented.

Steven Tyler, I won't even go there, everything after "Get Your Wings" was pretty much utter crap, and yes thats their first album.

[Hybrid Gojira]

For the most part, I hate rap. I'm sick of hearing how much bling they have and how many chick they can bang. To me, it's utter crap for the most part. Anything rapped about being a hustler on the streets or how rap is about what they had to endure while doing illegal activities is total crap. They chose that life.

I prefer rock because it's easy to identify with and I'd rather hear real instruments rather than computer generated noise.

[Zigra]

You really should clarify this more as there are many different types of Metal. What exactly are you considering "screaming?" Can you name some examples? Heavy Metal is my favorite genre of music but there is plenty that I don't like, such as Doom Metal, Black Metal, ect.

I don't know what bands Cyndi was talking about, but I can say that I loathe all the bands, except Eminem, that "Weird Al" Yankovic made fun of in "Angry White Boy Polka";)

[godofPH]

Its nearly impossible to compare vastly different forms of music...it always ends in arguments that boil into flamewars that are only won by one side overwhelming another. Different people prefer different genres, its impossible to prove one is 'better' than the other. While it looks like alot of you like rock and various forms of metal, I happen to hate most all metal and prefer alt-country, which I know alot of you don't like.

[Zigra]

If the "singer" doesn't actually sing, and if the "song" can't even hold a melody, then it isn't actually music. There's no other way to spell it out. Unfortunetly, a lot, though thankfully not all, mainstream Rap and Hip Hop is like that. A guy droning like some lifeless zombie to some dim-witted, unsophisticated beat, isn't, and should never by any rights be considered "real music". Calling it music is about as much of a lie as "2 + 2 = 5" or "the Earth is flat".


Granted, a lot of "Death" and "Black" Metal, where a guy is doing nothing but incoherent yelling to some out of tune shrieking guitars isn't what I'd consider music, either. But Death Metal isn't the only form of Rock out there. Not by a long shot. And Rock and Roll has churned out far more bands and singers who can actually sing and carry a melody than Rap has ever done.

And, for the record, even though I'm not into much Country, I still hold it in a higher regard than mainstream Rap and Hip Hop.

[Dr. Strangelove]

If the "singer" doesn't actually sing, and if the "song" can't even hold a melody, then it isn't actually music. There's no other way to spell it out. Unfortunetly, a lot, though thankfully not all, mainstream Rap and Hip Hop is like that. A guy droning like some lifeless zombie to some dim-witted, unsophisticated beat, isn't, and should never by any rights be considered "real music". Calling it music is about as much of a lie as "2 + 2 = 5" or "the Earth is flat".


Granted, a lot of "Death" and "Black" Metal, where a guy is doing nothing but incoherent yelling to some out of tune shrieking guitars isn't what I'd consider music, either. But Death Metal isn't the only form of Rock out there. Not by a long shot. And Rock and Roll has churned out far more bands and singers who can actually sing and carry a melody than Rap has ever done.

And, for the record, even though I'm not into much Country, I still hold it in a higher regard than mainstream Rap and Hip Hop.
There are honest-to-me people who believe that. They think the earth is a disc..

Back on topic-
Strangelove got Cyndi into Rammstein! Yes, so far, I've given her Engel and Rosenrot. The great thing about Rammstein- Industrial Metal, and you can clearly hear their voices...and German works oh-so-well for Metal.

[bloodyarts]

Its nearly impossible to compare vastly different forms of music...it always ends in arguments that boil into flamewars that are only won by one side overwhelming another.

I like your line of thinking. Exactly what you've outlined has happened here, and as much as people want to drone on about, "rap is not music!", it is, no matter how you try to discount it. Your opinion on what music should be is totally irrelevant.

Method Man's new album, 4:21, comes out next week, for the one or two of you that care. The meaning behind the title is pretty interesting, and should raise a few ires around here. Stereotypes, for the win!

While it looks like alot of you like rock and various forms of metal, I happen to hate most all metal and prefer alt-country, which I know alot of you don't like.

What is alt-country?

EDIT: Wow, the poll PROVES that Rock is better than Rap!

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

Rap can flow and you can understand it. The lyrics are better, it's faster paced and not mindless noise.

[Cole Deschain]

Rap can flow and you can understand it. The lyrics are better, it's faster paced and not mindless noise.

"Rock has a tempo and you can undertsand it. The lyrics are better, it's faster paced and not mindless noise."

When trading in opinion, it's best not to claim a standpoint of fact.

Especially since my current playlist includes Cypress Hill, Iced Earth, Beethoven, Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash, Aztlan Underground, Monster Magnet, a couple of Disney tunes, and even more elements of musical whiplash.

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

I can't understand rock. I can't flow with it. I hate the sound of it. It focuses way to much on noise and no lyrics (most rock). I hate it when there is like 45 second pauses of just noise. The lyrics to me are weak. Rappers will go out challenge anyone and start rapping no matter what others may think of the lyrics. There are a few good rock songs I like. That's about it. Not to mention rap can cover alot more where as rock they scream out one word that I can't understand for like 10 seconds before saying something else. Eh I gotta go with rap.

[Cole Deschain]

Eh I gotta go with rap.

You're entitled. I like being able to take it all, though.

[kritaya]

There are a few good rock songs I like.

What rock songs are those?

[Dr. Strangelove]

I can't understand rock. I can't flow with it. I hate the sound of it. It focuses way to much on noise and no lyrics (most rock). I hate it when there is like 45 second pauses of just noise. The lyrics to me are weak. Rappers will go out challenge anyone and start rapping no matter what others may think of the lyrics. There are a few good rock songs I like. That's about it. Not to mention rap can cover alot more where as rock they scream out one word that I can't understand for like 10 seconds before saying something else. Eh I gotta go with rap.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rYljjSeaOQ8 Watch/listen to that. It's metal/industrial, a German band called Rammstein. Best. Band. Ever. It'll change your opinion...maybe. Give it a shot.

[Zigra]

I almost didn't want to dignify KG's comments by responding, but I guess I will. Keizer, if you think guys yelling is the only form of Rock and Roll in existence, then you simply don't know jack about Rock. And if you think some guy droning like an emotionless zombie to some unsophisticated rhythm is music, then you don't know jack about music, period.

The funny thing about it all is that even many Rap fans will admit that it isn't really music if you actually talk with them on the matter. As it started out, it was looked at as more of a form of storytelling than genuine singing or song making. Though, many old school Rap fans I've spoken to will also admit that a lot of the storytelling that once defined Rap has vanished from it in recent times, leaving nothing but guys doing mindless droning and non-sensical monkey sounds in its place.

[Keizer Godzilla (OPG)]

What rock songs are those?

Not many. Only one I can think of at the top of my head is headstrong.

almost didn't want to dignify KG's comments by responding, but I guess I will. Keizer, if you think guys yelling is the only form of Rock and Roll in existence, then you simply don't know jack about Rock. And if you think some guy droning like an emotionless zombie to some unsophisticated rhythm is music, then you don't know jack about music, period.

The funny thing about it all is that even many Rap fans will admit that it isn't really music if you actually talk with them on the matter. As it started out, it was looked at as more of a form of storytelling than genuine singing or song making. Though, many old school Rap fans I've spoken to will also admit that a lot of the storytelling that once defined Rap has vanished from it in recent times, leaving nothing but guys doing mindless droning and non-sensical monkey sounds in its place.

It's not the only form of rock but I have no care for any kind of rock. Let the music flow and say what's on the persons mind. Noone here has problems with poetry but rap (cause it comes from playa is horrible:sarcasm: ) when poetry and rap are almost the same thing with less annoying noise and mroe lyrics and raw beats that flow.

Oh and the funny thing is that's NOT TRUE AT ALL. Even ROCK fans I have talked to admit that most rock is noise and rap is music. Hell you don't even need an instrument to rap and it still works. Try free styling with rock. Lol someone brings a instrument and starts yelling to someone. You don't even listen to rap so what do you know?

[Zigra]

It's not the only form of rock but I have no care for any kind of rock. Let the music flow and say what's on the persons mind. Noone here has problems with poetry but rap (cause it comes from playa is horrible:sarcasm: ) when poetry and rap are almost the same thing with less annoying noise and mroe lyrics and raw beats that flow.

Once again, you prove your complete ignorance by saying all Rock features a singer who yells. Quite a bit of Rock isn't like that. You're thinking exclusively of Heavy Metal, which is only a sub-genre of Rock.

Oh and the funny thing is that's NOT TRUE AT ALL. Even ROCK fans I have talked to admit that most rock is noise and rap is music. Hell you don't even need an instrument to rap and it still works. Try free styling with rock. Lol someone brings a instrument and starts yelling to someone. You don't even listen to rap so what do you know?

Oh, please. I don't believe for a second that any Rock fans said that it isn't music. Unless you're talking to one of these Goth kids who only listen to Death Metal just to piss off their parents. And, FYI, at my workplace, my co-workers always have the radio set to the local Rap station. So, yeah, I do have to listen to a lot of Gangsta Rap, even though I don't want to, and you, sir, have once again spouted off about things you don't know about. Way to go.

[Zardac the Great]

Rock really rocks... :laugh:

[Zigra]

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:Hip-hop_loses_classification_as_music


:intears:

[Zardac the Great]

Up to the second misinformation?
Sounds like the Soviet "news"

[rodanguirus]

Music is now classified as "something with a melody, percussion or a bassline, which requires a certain degree of skill,"

:laugh: That's the most intelligent statement I've seen on Uncyclopedia.

[godzillamoviemaster]

Question- has anyone brought up bands that fall into both domains, like Rage Against the Machine, Linkin Park, (the old) Crossfade, and bands of the like? What did you think of them?

[Zigra]

I personally don't care for any bands you just listed, but, apparently some people around here do *shrugs*

[godzillamoviemaster]

Actually, I'm not too keen on them either, but Rage Against the Machine and Linkin Park both had pretty good first ablums, and I like those because the had more rock then rap. Their other releases were actually not very good IMO.

[Godzilla Forever]

I prefer Rock, always will. From Prog-rock to metal, there is much more diversity within Rock 'n Roll as a genre. Old school rap like Public Enemy deserves praise, Chuck-D were true pioneers and their lyrics had a socio-political slant, which is leagues better than the watered down drivel on MTV currently.

[KiryuGigan]

I really like rock more cause I can NOT stand rap at all. I'm more of an older rock person. xD But I just hate rap so much, I don't like the music.

MY OPINION FOLKS.

[ookami]

Rap is HORRIBLE! I hate it so much!

[Scynt the Skunk]

Rock > Rap. Only rappers/hip-hoppers I like are DMX, Eminem, Will Smith, Limp Bizket (technically hip-hop), and Mike Shinoda from Linkin Park.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Rap makes me want to rip my eardrums out and then pour acid followed by salt and soap into them. Not all rap is bad, but some of the stuff that people like...

A bay bay?
Seriously. A newborn could make a song called goo goo goo and sell it.

Then I remember rock and the reason to keep my hering in tact.

=)

[Raptor]

Not all rap is bad, but some of the stuff that people like...

A bay bay?
Seriously. A newborn could make a song called goo goo goo and sell it.A local station played "something" yesterday called "Suicide" that kept repeating that word, was supposedly telling a story about his girl dumping him AND TRY to be rap all at the same time. The guy "singing" was either tone deaf or has been breathing too much cotton defoliant. :crazy: The musical accompaniment was the best part of THAT painful experience!

[Zearatul]

The world may now explode, as there has been emo-rap

[bloodyarts]

Rap makes me want to rip my eardrums out and then pour acid followed by salt and soap into them. Not all rap is bad, but some of the stuff that people like...

Then I remember rock and the reason to keep my hering in tact.


On the other hand, not all rock is good. In fact, most of it is just as derivative and mundane as rap. Some of the stuff I've heard people here say is great... smdh...

I like both genres, but neither is my favorite.

[Dr. Strangelove]

On the other hand, not all rock is good. In fact, most of it is just as derivative and mundane as rap. Some of the stuff I've heard people here say is great... smdh...

I like both genres, but neither is my favorite.
<_<..sorry, but even some of the worst rock is better than the 'best' rap. Rap can't even be classified as music. Music requires instruments. Rap is just really horrible poetry.

[bloodyarts]

<_<..sorry, but even some of the worst rock is better than the 'best' rap. Rap can't even be classified as music. Music requires instruments. Rap is just really horrible poetry.

>_> sorry, but that's your opinion (and many on the board). I can conduct this same poll elsewhere and get a similar response to yours, but in favor of the other.

And if you think rap doesn't use instruments, and producers of the genre don't know how to play instruments, just goes to show your experience and knowledge of the genre is severely strained, to be kind.

[Dr. Strangelove]

>_> sorry, but that's your opinion (and many on the board). I can conduct this same poll elsewhere and get a similar response to yours, but in favor of the other.

And if you think rap doesn't use instruments, and producers of the genre don't know how to play instruments, just goes to show your experience and knowledge of the genre is severely strained, to be kind.
If you can show me one, *one* rap that uses a musical instrument(guitar, drums, I don't care), I'll take back my "rap isn't music" statement and replace it with "Rap is really, really, really, unbearably horrible music".

[Zigra]

If you can show me one, *one* rap that uses a musical instrument(guitar, drums, I don't care), I'll take back my "rap isn't music" statement and replace it with "Rap is really, really, really, unbearably horrible music".

Sauron actually did give one example way back somewhere in this thread. But still, more than 90% of mainstream Rap and Hip Hop don't use much in the way of real instruments, nor do they feature individuals who can actually sing.

Of course, to tell you the truth, the music scene in general, not just Rap, has really gone down the toilet in the past ten years (this is coming from somebody who likes music from all different eras and genres). We've really lowered our standards in what we look for in "talent", letting any idiot who thinks he can strum a guitar or yell out noise in a microphone have a record deal.

[Hybrid Gojira]

On the other hand, not all rock is good. In fact, most of it is just as derivative and mundane as rap. Some of the stuff I've heard people here say is great... smdh...

I like both genres, but neither is my favorite.

I'll agree with this. Much of the music now is ...meh. I'm not music expert, but what sells and what is popular are stupid things like "Chicken Noodle Soup" and "Glamorous". It really makes me sick.

And I hate, with passion and fire, "Rockstar." That song drives me nuts.


LOL I just noticed I spelled hearing without the "a" in my last post...

[GMK12]

Hmmm... I personally like both of 'em alot... favorite rapper is and always will be Tupac... but for fear of my life, I do not wish to further elaborate on why I like Tupac/Rap lol...

Any questions, comments and criticisms are welcome however...

[Goji Son]

If you can show me one, *one* rap that uses a musical instrument(guitar, drums, I don't care), I'll take back my "rap isn't music" statement and replace it with "Rap is really, really, really, unbearably horrible music".

The Roots, I win!

There are some great rappers and a lot of hacks, just like in every genre of music. For every Roots or Common you get Lil' John or Nelly. Music has really gone down hill, like all mainstream entertainment but we are also in a very dull period of history. It's not like the 60s, where there was revolution around every corner, life is mundane sans the whole terrorist business.


Hmmm... I personally like both of 'em alot... favorite rapper is and always will be Tupac... but for fear of my life, I do not wish to further elaborate on why I like Tupac/Rap lol...

Any questions, comments and criticisms are welcome however...

Go ahead, anyone who is too ignorant to not hear what you have to say might as well not be in this conversation.

[Shark Raptor]

Well, this was a fun read. Valid arguments on both sides, yet of course mostly for rock for obvious reasons.

As for myself, I'm a metalhead. I mostly speed/power metal and good ol' heavy metal. Yet, I've been somewhat giving a taste of black/death from time to time.

I'll take rock too though, as long as it's not that horrible crap that passes off for "rock" like My Chemical Romance...

[Kaiser Kronos]

Phah, you heretics! We all know the only true music is folk music. :p

After all, we folk listeners have Blowing in the Wind and Desolation Row. You fellas....

You have 50 Cent and a bunch of sell-out has-beens. PWNED! :darklord:

Edit- And Gor, no my fingers didn't explode. ;)

[Jet Jaguar]

Rap, while valid, does steal from Rock, Funk, and other genres to mix and match and make it's own contribution.
It is here to stay, like it or not.
I'm more of an "Old Skool" Rap fan. I like some Run-DMC, DC Talk, Dynamic Twins, and a little Public Enemy.
I am a Rocker, to be sure. But not liking a genre won't make it go away.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Phah, you heretics! We all know the only true music is folk music. :p

After all, we folk listeners have Blowing in the Wind and Desolation Row. You fellas....

You have 50 Cent and a bunch of sell-out has-beens. PWNED! :darklord:

Edit- And Gor, no my fingers didn't explode. ;)

As a fellow southerner, I throw up a little in my mouth each time I hear folk music...

[Jet Jaguar]

Then you should watch "A Mighty Wind" on DVD
You'd LOVE it...;)

[Dr. Strangelove]

Then you should watch "A Mighty Wind" on DVD
You'd LOVE it...;)
;_;!

*clutches NiN and Rammstein CDs*

[Kiryu 2]

I like rock so much better than rap, it's not even funny. (Seriously, I hate rap so much, that if someone so much as names a song, I get mad.) The only rapper I'm at least tolerant of is Vanilla Ice.

[Pn013]

I'm sorry to bring up an old thread but I just feel like sharing my opinion.

I used to be a big fan of mainstream rappers like 50 Cent, Juvenile, 2pac, and Eminem, thats until I was introduced to Underground Hip-Hop.

The mellow and poetic music of "Cyne" is just a good example of how poetic Hip-Hop can be.

Then there is "Immortal Technique" (although I don't agree with him most of the time) who sets a good example of what freedom of speech is. Not only that, he is very informative.

I can list a lot of other Underground MCs that most of you have never even heard of. They avoid all the bling bling, the hot cars, f**king h**s, violence, and whatever mainstream cRap (you can't spell Crap without Rap LOL) that is heard on the radio or television has.

By the way, I listen to everything except mainstream rap (It's too cliche). So I'm not being bias here. I love Beethoven, Mozart, The Berzerker, Bon Jovie, Benny Benassi, Slipknot, Rage Against the Machine, DJ Mike, Deep Forest, Chicago, Journey, ToTo, Frank Sinatra, and blah blah blah.

My friends (who are into rap) call me a fa**ot for listening to all that.

Also my other friends who are hardcore rock fans tend to call me stupid for even listening to Hip-Hop.

I see ignorance on both sides. Their condescending nature is just stupid. Sorry, I get irritated just thinking about it. :cursing:

Yeah, I'm very open minded to music, except for Mainstream Rap (once again). Sometimes I wish people could be the same instead of talking about something they don't know about or understand.

Okay, I'm done. :thumbs:

[Excelsior]

Thread necromancy FTW!!!


You know how music is like a candy bar? It's no good until you throw away the rapper!

[Pn013]

Thread necromancy FTW!!!


You know how music is like a candy bar? It's no good until you throw away the rapper!

lol Thats one of my favorites.