The Official Console Karnage Thread.

[GMK12]

Hello denizens of kaijuphile! I welcome you to a unique thread that I hope will become a frequent "visit" to you and to visitors of kaijuphile! This thread will pit console against console, with no generation limitations. Obviously, I do not mean in terms of JUST hardware, but of popularity in the participating console's time, impact of their games on society yesterday and today, and a unique competition first, the controller comfort, schematic and overall feel. The thread will allow ALL types of competition and conversations, and finally, ALL consoles are able to participate, including handhelds! First battle, the SNES vs Playstation 2.

Well in the early stages of this battle, I'd have to go with the SNES. Simply because the SNES's impact on society was great because of its gameplay and FUN games. Any suggestions? All arguments are welcome.

[Burkion]

SNES.


Look, it just wins. You couldn't break that thing if you TRIED.

[GMK12]

Not to indicate a pro ps2 conversion but, can you please elaborate on other specifications on the SNES? I agree with you on the post above though.

[Burkion]

In terms of long lastingness, classic games, and your monies worth the SNES wins. I'm not talking about graphics either; it had all of the original FF games, and the best ones at that, plus the Metriods, Marios, I think a Warrio or two...

That and the PS2 can't even take a hit from a sledge hammer.

[Saruman]

Hmmm, this is tough, and for me I would have to say it's 50/50. Both systems are great and have tons ofexcellent games with much replay value. Both systems also pushed the gaming industry forward in a drastic fashion as well in just about every way possible. I simply can't pick either of these systems over the other, IMO they are equal for what they did and accomplished in their times. Simply the two best systems made to date.

[godofPH]

Not to indicate a pro ps2 conversion but, can you please elaborate on other specifications on the SNES?

Bah, you don't need other specifications when you have indestructibility on your resume.

[GMK12]

Not exactly Mr. Ph. You must note that the gamecube was near indestructible, but fell out as the second least selling console in the sixth generation. Not to put you down however...

[Seer235]

Hm, the PS2 and SNES, arguably the two greatest systems ever made. It's close, their both incredible systems, but I'll have to lean towards the SNES. Mainly because of the games. SNES has a list of mindblowingly incredible games, and you can't bring up the SNES without thinking of games like Super Mario Allstars + World, Super Metroid, Megaman X, Link to the Past, and many many more. Course, I might be slightly biased towards the Nintendo side, but I'm still going with SNES by a hair.

[GMK12]

Anymore arguments/ suggestions/ disagreements? Please feel free to post anything on this battle. While some are still probably pondering the outcome of that battle i'm moving on to the next.

Dreamcast vs Nintendo 64

I'd like to set the stage for the first judgement, I'd love for the two system's controller's ergonomics, feel, originality, comfort and intuitiveness to be judged, but other than that please feel free to post anything on this new battle.

[GMK12]

If you need help with the judging of the controllers or to see my inspiration of the value of the controller, see this unique and informative page.

http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/index.html

[PyrasTerran]

N64.

Why?

Ocarina of Time, and Super Smash Bros.

[Saruman]

Anymore arguments/ suggestions/ disagreements? Please feel free to post anything on this battle. While some are still probably pondering the outcome of that battle i'm moving on to the next.

Dreamcast vs Nintendo 64

I'd like to set the stage for the first judgement, I'd love for the two system's controller's ergonomics, feel, originality, comfort and intuitiveness to be judged, but other than that please feel free to post anything on this new battle.

This isn't even close, the Dreamcast blows the N64 away. If SEGA knew how to market stuff the DC would have done much better than it did. It had a lot of really great games and pretty much set the stage for the first round of Next Gen systems. The N64 was a complete wast of time, money and effort. IMO this is probably the single worst system ever made.It offered nothing new and refreshing, it was simply trying to be a more powerful SNES but completely failed in that and can't even compare to the SNES. The only truely good games for the system came out way to late into the systems life span when Nintendo was gearing up for the release of the GC.

Dreamcast easily owns the N64.

[godofPH]

It offered nothing new and refreshing, it was simply trying to be a more powerful SNES but completely failed in that and can't even compare to the SNES.

Ahem, Joysticks on a controller?

[Seer235]

I'm going with N64. Here's why.

Two words: party games.

N64 was the first system that really allowed that. Even today, from my experience when people get together to play video games, it's either Halo or it's an N64 game. Smash Bros, Goldeneye, Mario Kart, to a lesser extent Mario Party (although that's what my sister and her friends always play, along with Mario Kart). Of course, then there are games like Super Mario 64, Starfox 64, and OoT, but the main reason for me is party games. The four controller ports was also rather helpful there.

[Burkion]

Yeah, one thing you can't take away from the N64: it had four controler ports, as Seer said.

THat's something that they did first. XBox came about WAY later, and PS2 still hasn't caught up.

I'm not even sure the PS3 has 4...uh, sensores...

[GMK12]

Well Mr.Ph, just to correct you on what I think to be a small error, The N64 was not the first home console to feature a built in analog stick, surpirisingly, it came a decade earlier with the release of the GCE vectrex. If you do not believe me, just check the page that I have listed in an earlier post above.

Oh and Korogra, The ps3 can enable up to 7 wireless controllers to work at once on one ps3.

[Burkion]

Huh. Didn't know that.


That's gotta be a pain though; I don't even like having four people trying to play one game, let alone seven...

[GMK12]

Well so far, I'd have to go with the N64, only by like, maybe a centimeter, why? Well although the "votes" tally up 3-1, Saruman put up a really good point, although it was only sufficient enough to carry the dreamcast almost directly on par with the N64. Just my early opinion though...

[ookami]

SNES Beats Playstation, hands down. It is still, even now, one of my favorite consoles! I love most of the Zelda games, so A Link to the Past was lots of fun.

As for the Dreamcast vs. the 64... I would say the N64, but I have never played a Dreamcast. I love the OoT and Majora's Mask (Again, Zelda ^^)... I like to play Mario Kart and Super Smash Brothers on it as well, so the multi-outlet thing goes into effect there. Like previously said, the controller has a nice grip and whatnot to it... It makes it easier to play and allows a more comfortable hand position while playing! Anyways, there's my two cents worth! ^^

[GMK12]

How wonderful, another supposedly nintendo geared fan. I fully support all fans and I am sort of a nintendo fan my self (grew up on them). Your opinion is valued and I hope to see you reply here soon. Oh and I freakin love the Zelda franchise too so were like in the same boat or whatever...

Ok, well like I said before please continue to allow the other battles to live by relpying to them, but on to my next battle, This very unusual battle pits the Sega Saturn against the Microsoft Xbox 1.

Well... FIGHT!!!

[GMK12]

Oh and before I forget, I want to clarify any future misconceptions, so whenever you visit this thread, please feel free to post your own battles. You can't rely on me alone, trust me. I would love to see your console karnage match ups and I encourage you to do this as often as possible (well, atleast in moderation).

[MirrenDono]

Dreamcast deserved so much more respect than it ever got. For quite some time, it had the best graphics of any console, it was the first system to go online, and it had a wonderful game library, including major titles like Shenmue, Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur, the Grandias, Skies of Arcadia etc.

But there's no doubt that where the 64 lacked in technical prowess, it made up for in spades with its games, many of which are still regarded as greats among video game fans; Super Mario 64, Goldeneye (disproved the original belief that a FPS could not be done on a console) Perfect Dark, Paper Mario, Starfox, Mario Kart 64, FZero X, Smash Bros., Donkey Kong 64, Conker's Bad Furday, Turok 1 and 2, 1080 Snowboarding, Excitebike 64

Then of course there's Ocarina of Time, which I will be the first to admit is one of the most overrated titles of all time and is inferior to the other 3D Zeldas, but no one can deny that it's made a lasting impact. It's still viewed as the greatest game of all time by a crapload of people. Bringing in Zelda to 3D for the first time obviously did something big with the fans, and the fact that 64 brought so many of their franchises to 3D made a major impact.

And when it comes to controllers, N64's eats the Dreamcast's and spits it back out.

[GMK12]

Agreeable Mr. Dono. I however, completely disagree with you on the controllers. The Dreamcast, to me, is completely superior to the 64's. One example and one example only, the very unique VMU. Just a side reason however, the dreamcast's controller was straight forward, and was to me way more comfortable to use than the N64's three pronged controller. Although, individually, the controller had no problem in the comfort area. It just seemed to me that Nintendo was looking for alternatives and just stuck digital and analog as two MAIN controls and made the controller very "hostile" looking to new/ pick up and play gamers.

[godofPH]

Bringing in Zelda to 3D for the first time obviously did something big with the fans, and the fact that 64 brought so many of their franchises to 3D made a major impact.

Not to mention that Nintendo helped set still-followed standards in the concept of 3D in general with Super Mario 64.

Well Mr.Ph, just to correct you on what I think to be a small error, The N64 was not the first home console to feature a built in analog stick, surpirisingly, it came a decade earlier with the release of the GCE vectrex. If you do not believe me, just check the page that I have listed in an earlier post above.

Ah yes, but the N64 was the first console to have a joystick in nearly a decade. Joysticks had been dropped in favor of directional pads, and N64 brought 'em back.

[GMK12]

It definitely brought them back Mr. Ph, but even Nintendo seemed to have skepticisms with the analog stick being able to catch on with the masses. The controller layout shows this as the analog stick is set in the center prong, traditionally a VERY unusual controller to hand position. Sadly however... as soon as it caught on, Sony butted in and directly bit off of nintendo's creative (yet skeptic at the time) genius and improved on it by adding TWO analog sticks, which is one of the "behind the scenes" reasons why the playstaion was propeled so far into stardom.

[GMK12]

I'd like to say one more time, in case you missed it, the new fight is between

Sega Saturn vs Microsoft Xbox 1

[Burkion]

...

Eh....

Sega did give us uncut Street Fighter games...

But I have to admit, for as overblown as it is, Halo 2 is a lot of fun when you get the lucky shot with a frag granade and have it stuck to your 'friends' face.

[godofPH]

It definitely brought them back Mr. Ph, but even Nintendo seemed to have skepticisms with the analog stick being able to catch on with the masses. The controller layout shows this as the analog stick is set in the center prong, traditionally a VERY unusual controller to hand position. Sadly however... as soon as it caught on, Sony butted in and directly bit off of nintendo's creative (yet skeptic at the time) genius and improved on it by adding TWO analog sticks, which is one of the "behind the scenes" reasons why the playstaion was propeled so far into stardom.

I have nothing to say to this, you Master Debater. So I say this: ITS PH, DAMN IT!!!! NOT "Ph"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GMK12]

I'm terribly sorry Mr. PH. Please forgive me. Well atleast you know for a fact I won't be making that mistake again Mr. PH.

[Saruman]

Well Mr.Ph, just to correct you on what I think to be a small error, The N64 was not the first home console to feature a built in analog stick, surpirisingly, it came a decade earlier with the release of the GCE vectrex. If you do not believe me, just check the page that I have listed in an earlier post above.

Ah, GMK12 you got to this one before me. I actually still have my Vectrex, which was a fun system, though none of my controllers work so it's kinda useless to me at the moment.

[Orga777]

SNES vs. PS2. Ah, the best of Nintendo against the best of Sony. But I have to go with the PS2 by a hair. Here is why. Sony has made the best controller of all time. It has a great shape with probably the best button placement of all time. Both have the games so that evens out. Both have great reply value, and both have changed the gaming market as Saru has said. The controller just tips it toward Sony's favor.

N64 vs. Dream Cast. You people make me laugh. N64 had good controllers?:laugh: The N64 controller has to be the worst controller I ever held. It is way too big. It had an awkward shape, horrid button placement, and just looked plain ugly. They were still using cartridges in a CD ROM age, had rather mediocre games save a few exceptions like OOT and SSB, and was just... not that good of a system. Dream Cast, though it did not last long had great games, a much better controller, and had better reply value. Gotta go with the underrated DC on this one.

Sega Saturn vs. X-Box. Please. This isn't even a contest. X-Box in all aspects I can think of. It isn't even close IMO.

[GMK12]

Glad you can join with us Orga!

The statements that you have posted regarding the SNES and the PS2, are something I cannot readily accept. Only because of the most promenint feature of that paricular argument. You said that the ps2 controller was better than the SNES? TRUE in most aspects! but..... Where EXACTLY did sony get the design elements from? We take originality into consideration in these battles as well.

I have to agree with you on MOST of the things you said with the N64 controller though. I just think that it was not as horrible as you portray it to be. Sure the controller was a bit doofy looking, but to me personally, I think that the controller was alright and had no issues whatsoever in the comfort area.

I'm still thinking about the S Saturn and th Xbox though... seems to me to be a bit of a tie...


Oh and last but not least... unleashing my inner most nintendo fanboy core that has been laying dormant for countless years...

I MUST ABSOLUTELY REJECT YOUR OPINION ON THE PS2 CONTROLLER BEING THE BEST THERE EVER WAS. I SAY THAT ITS THE SNES CONTROLLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Of course no hard feelings! I feel real lazy right now and I normally would ramble on why it is better but I must be off... It is WAY past my bed time... Maybe ill say why it is better next time...

[MirrenDono]

The N64 was one of the most comfortable controllers ever. The long handles gave you a ton of room to get the perfect grip, and the addition of the extension from the D-Pad made it extremley easy for games that used that to move around.


As for Xbox vs. Saturn, I'd have to choose Xbox. Saturn was the system that started (or advanced) some sweet franchises like Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter, but that was definitely one of Sega's darker times, and one of the reasons Sega eventually left the consoles.

Xbox did fantastic for its first year, with an excellent game library, the best graphics of the last generation, and the best online service at the time.

[Orga777]

Glad you can join with us Orga!


You must have seen it comming eventually.;)

The statements that you have posted regarding the SNES and the PS2, are something I cannot readily accept. Only because of the most promenint feature of that paricular argument. You said that the ps2 controller was better than the SNES? TRUE in most aspects! but..... Where EXACTLY did sony get the design elements from? We take originality into consideration in these battles as well.


Well what else was I going to name? Both are way too even to even say anything else. So I went with the controller which I think is the best of all time which is the hair that it beat the SNES by.

I have to agree with you on MOST of the things you said with the N64 controller though. I just think that it was not as horrible as you portray it to be. Sure the controller was a bit doofy looking, but to me personally, I think that the controller was alright and had no issues whatsoever in the comfort area.

No, it was bad which I will explain in better detail to Mirren's post later on....

I MUST ABSOLUTELY REJECT YOUR OPINION ON THE PS2 CONTROLLER BEING THE BEST THERE EVER WAS. I SAY THAT ITS THE SNES CONTROLLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you are mistaken my friend, you are mistaken. :p

The N64 was one of the most comfortable controllers ever. The long handles gave you a ton of room to get the perfect grip, and the addition of the extension from the D-Pad made it extremley easy for games that used that to move around.

Comfortable? That controller had NO comfort to it at all. The long handles made it awkward to easily get to the buttons, the analog stick was in a VERY bad spot in the dead center. It was awkward when you have to use the Z button all the way in the back of the middle long handle, then you got the stupid C-Pad which was in a really bad spot under the A and B button. The controller was bad. I have never held one even close to as bad as that one, and I doubt I will ever hold one as bad as that one ever again. As for grip, I get a great grip on teh PS2 controller and that doesn't have long handles. And if I am right, you were one of the first ones who made fun of the prototype PS3 boomerang controller and its long handles. :p So I don't get what you see in it at all.:laugh:

[MirrenDono]

Oh, this is what I call funny


Originally posted by Orga777
Comfortable? That controller had NO comfort to it at all. The long handles made it awkward to easily get to the buttons, the analog stick was in a VERY bad spot in the dead center.

All of the buttons were right next to your thumb, just as they were with the Genesis controller, and to a lesser extent, the SNES one. Basically, 64's button layout was the same. And the analog stick was in the middle because the controller was meant to be held from the middle and the right side for most games, since the D-pad was on the left side.


It was awkward when you have to use the Z button all the way in the back of the middle long handle,

It's a trigger, what's awkward about that?


then you got the stupid C-Pad which was in a really bad spot under the A and B button.

http://media.arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.media/n64-controller.jpg

Let that sink in


The controller was bad. I have never held one even close to as bad as that one, and I doubt I will ever hold one as bad as that one ever again.

Go use the original Xbox controller. Or, better yet, trying Gamecube's for a fighting game outside of Soul Calibur and Smash Bros.


And if I am right, you were one of the first ones who made fun of the prototype PS3 boomerang controller and its long handles. :p So I don't get what you see in it at all.:laugh:

Nah, you're not right, because I remember that I said that I actually liked the controller, and only that many people wouldn't. And when I did 'criticize' it, I did it to make a point that bashing a controller prototype that you never used was a stupid practice, since at that time you were on a roll with the Wii remote. And I would explain that my criticism wasn't my own personal belief afterwards.

[ookami]

I will post as long as I can keep up! And yes, I do love Nintendo very much... I too, grew up on it. ^^

Anyways, the Xbox vs. Saturn... I would have to say the XBox... I love playing Halo and Halo 2 (Though I am not the best of players, mind you). I get lucky... sometimes... and have fun with some inside jokes with that game.. lol.... But yeah, I haven't played the Saturn, so I can't really say much here either... lol.

[GMK12]

Well.. new battle, The Atari 2600 vs The NES.

[Orga777]

Atari 2600 vs. The NES

.....This is actually the easiest one (well except the Sega Saturn vs. X-Box one).

The Atari 2600 by a mile. It MADE video games. Nintendo even said Atari was the face of video games before the NES was introduced, and that was well after Atari's glory days. Sorry Nintendo, you can't touch the Atari 2600 with a ten foot pole.

[GMK12]

That's not fair... Nintendo is just as good as Atari, and lets not forget that Nintendo is also accredited with alot of innovations in gaming too... right :snivel:?

[Orga777]

That's not fair... Nintendo is just as good as Atari, and lets not forget that Nintendo is also accredited with alot of innovations in gaming too... right :snivel:?

And? Atari MADE gaming.

[GMK12]

Well... I say to you this... I like the Odyssey better!!! AND the Odyssey is the true system that MADE gaming!!! Ha, how do you like them apples :sly:?

[Orga777]

Well... I say to you this... I like the Odyssey better!!! AND the Odyssey is the true system that MADE gaming!!! Ha, how do you like them apples :sly:?

If that is the case how come it didn't accomplish what the Atari 2600 did? PWNED!:p Besides, the Atari 2600 made one of the greatest games of all time. PONG. And that game pwns half the games that are made even today.

[GMK12]

Yeah... but Ralph Baer (The person that made the Odyssey) and Magnavox in general won a court case of patent infringement, when PONG's design was taken directly from a tennis game for the Odyssey!!! HA! You just got BURNED!!! :sly: lol.

[Orga777]

Yeah... but Ralph Baer (The person that made the Odyssey) and Magnavox in general won a court case of patent infringement, when PONG's design was taken directly from a tennis game for the Odyssey!!! HA! You just got BURNED!!! :sly: lol.

And yet PONG still was sold by the thousands. So I guess no one cared. So YOU FAIL IT!:darklord:

[GMK12]

Well... would... it help... if I said that it was a SUPREME court case? :look:

[Orga777]

Well... would... it help... if I said that it was a SUPREME court case? :look:

No it really doesn't.;) Normally the NES would take down a hole lot of systems. Maybe even the X-Box. But having it up against the grandfather of ALL video games is just not even a contest. There are only a few systems that can touch Atari, and just barely. Those systems are the SNES and the PS1. Other than that, nothing is even close to it. And it is no guarentee that the Atrai 2600 would lose to those systems in my opinion either. Because without the Atrai 2600, video games wouldn't even exist anymore.

[GMK12]

Hmmm, I guess the supreme court ruling didn't help convince him...:hmmm:. Whoops just thinking out loud ;)! Well anyways I bring you people, and specifically you Mr. Orga, another battle, The Ps1 vs The Ps2!

[Burkion]

NES would win.


ALOT more games, a better controller, Mario, Zelda, Metriod...


I'm sorry, but it kicks *** even today.

[Seer235]

ET: The Extra Terrestrial came out for Atari 2600. That means Atari automatically loses.

Plus, the NES ended the video game crashed caused by games such as ET.

[GMK12]

Well, I guess I have some late allies in this debate Orga :laugh:! ... I'm waiting for a response...

[GMK12]

Oh and augmenting Mr. Seer's last post, lets not forget that utterly horrendous port of pac man to the 2600...

[Orga777]

NES would win.


ALOT more games, a better controller, Mario, Zelda, Metriod...


I'm sorry, but it kicks *** even today.

Your kidding right? First, Nintendo would not even EXIST without Atari's influence. Second, PONG pwns even most of todays games. Third, Atari made video games a actual market and not just a joke. Sorry, Nintendo cannot compete with what the Atari 2600 accomplished for the video game market. NO system can.

Anyway...

Play Station 1 vs. Play Station 2

Ooh boy.... Just rip me in half why don't ya?:laugh: But I will have to go with the Play Station 1. It effectivly changed the face of video games forever. It went from cartrage systems to CD systems. But with the horror of the Sega Saturn's flop, it might have died too, if it did not have the games. In a flash the Play Station swarmed over at that time, the king of video games which was Nintendo. It took the hole market by storm, and changed it forever. It set the current standard of what video games are now.

[Seer235]

Your kidding right? First, Nintendo would not even EXIST without Atari's influence. Second, PONG pwns even most of todays games. Third, Atari made video games a actual market and not just a joke. Sorry, Nintendo cannot compete with what the Atari 2600 accomplished for the video game market. NO system can.

Atari made it a market, then killed said market. Nintendo saved said market.

As for PS1 vs. PS2, I really can't say anything about that. Don't know very much about the PS1. Never really played it. In fact, I didn't know it did so well until fairly recently. Guess where I lived was just a Nintendo area...or because Nintendo had all the party games I played with my friends.

[GMK12]

Once again, I completely agree with Mr. Seer. For the Ps1, Ps2 battle however, I have to go with the Ps2, simply because... It was a GREAT system... AND it was backwards compatable so it basically IS a Ps1 and much, much more!

[Burkion]

PS2. No contest.


That and it didn't have to distingish itself with the whiney Emo land that was FFVII.

And NES owns Atari.

[Orga777]

Atari made it a market, then killed said market. Nintendo saved said market.

Your right. BUT the Atrai 2600 didn't totally kill the market. It was what came AFTER the 2600 that started to kill the market. ut there wouldn't have been a market in the first place if Atari didn't exist, so that would have meant that Nintendo wouldn't have been around to save anything.

And I am sticking to the PS1. It forever changed the video game market. Oh, and Burk (or what ever your calling yourself now...:p ) you may not like FFVII, but it is still one of the most popular games ever made. So I think the PS1 wouldn't mind having to distinguish itself with it.;)

[Seer235]

Your right. BUT the Atrai 2600 didn't totally kill the market. It was what came AFTER the 2600 that started to kill the market. ut there wouldn't have been a market in the first place if Atari didn't exist, so that would have meant that Nintendo wouldn't have been around to save anything.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Game_Crash

There wasn't a video game market when Nintendo came in. That's why is was called the Nintendo Entertainment System. Nintendo had to distance itself from video game systems to get stores to sell it (it also included a little toy dog).

Oh, and:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PONG

Look for where it says Atari 2600.

[Orga777]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Game_Crash

There wasn't a video game market when Nintendo came in. That's why is was called the Nintendo Entertainment System. Nintendo had to distance itself from video game systems to get stores to sell it (it also included a little toy dog).

Still, Atari MADE the game market. And it is still very true that without Atari, Nintendo wouldn't even exist.

Oh, and:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PONG

Look for where it says Atari 2600.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atari_2600_games

Go down to "P" Seer. :p

[Seer235]

Beyond the home versions, Pong has also been remade several times, including a version for PlayStation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation). It has been included in the recent "TV Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=TV_Games_%28manufacturer%29&action=edit)" collections, which are console-on-a-chip (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Console-on-a-chip&action=edit) systems that feature "classic" games from the Atari 2600 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600) era.
Pong also served as a source of inspiration for Atari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari)'s game Breakout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakout) (1976) which was itself updated successfully ten years later by Taito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taito_Corporation) under the name Arkanoid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkanoid).
Pong is available on Arcade Classics for the Sega Genesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Mega_Drive).
The original version (with Cabinet Art) and an updated version of Pong is available in the Atari Anthology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Anthology) Video Game for the PlayStation 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2) and the Xbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox).
The original Pong is challenging to faithfully emulate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator) because it uses 7400 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7400) chips and discrete logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_logic) rather than a CPU for game logic.

Ok. Pong is for Atari 2600. It's also for Playstation, Sega Genesis, PS2, and Xbox.


Yes, Atari made the game market. The Atari 2600 is not Atari. If we were rating the systems by their companies, I'd put the Gamecube above the Sega Genesis. Pong was first generation. Atari 2600 was 2nd. Plus, one of the biggest factors in the success of the systems in that generation was ports from arcade. NES made the video game systems more than just a mini arcade game.

[Orga777]

Meh. I see your point Seer. But those arcade games were what was popular back then. Which is what I am getting at. The NES did change the video game market, and saved it from demise, there you are right. But it doesn't change the fact that the Atari 2600 was the first consol system to actually work and be bought en masse. It made the game market. Sure Atari caused the crash, but it doesn't mean that all the accomplishments that the Atari 2600 can easily be over looked. So I am sticking with the Atari on this.

[MirrenDono]

It can go both ways. We wouldn't be playing video games at all if it wasn't for either system. Atari brought forth video games, Nintendo made sure it didn't go down like a one-hit-wonder.

As for PSX and PS2, I say PS2, for the reasons that it was one of the most dominate systems in history, and it sported the largest, most varied video game library yet.

[Burkion]

Also, Orga, just because something's popular doesn't make it good. Just like something that isn't popular, doesn't mean that it's bad.


Otherwise that kind of defeats us being Kaiju Fans, correct? Last I checked, they weren't popular. At all.

Then again, you're someone who likes Naruto...

[GMK12]

Mirren and Burk summed it up perfectly.

[godofPH]

Still, Atari MADE the game market. And it is still very true that without Atari, Nintendo wouldn't even exist.

Atari did make the game market, but they also nearly killed it. Anyone remember a certain brown alien's venture into gaming that ended up with thousands of cartidges in a landfill?

[rodanguirus]

Oh wow, how'd I miss a thread like this for so long? If you'll forgive me, I'd like to go back and address past "clashes":

SNES vs. PS2: Hmm, I don't know if I can be fair with this one, seeing as I still play the SNES I got in '93 regularly and I've never owned a PS2. The PS2 actually seems more like the SNES than the Gamecube does: the successor to a console that assured the company domination, an incredibly versatile game library, loaded with talented 3rd party support, heavy on quality RPGs and adventure games, and pushed hardware that was arguably weaker than their competitions' beyond what was thought possible. I favor the SNES because it combined Nintendo's own 1st party talent at its peak with a ton of 3rd party support. Plus, it participated in the greatest console rivalry to date. Having to come from behind against a system as great as the Genesis really pushed Nintendo's creativity, I think.

N64 vs. Dreamcast: I have to go with The Fun Machine. The Dreamcast itself blows the 64 away, but these battles regard game libraries as well, and Dreamcast simply didn't last. The Sonic Adventures, Crazy Taxi, and Soul Calibur were great, but there was so much that was either unremarkable or simply not marketed. And while the 64 had virtually no 3rd party support, Nintendo and Rare really stepped up to fill the gap. The system has an amazing line-up. And as was pointed out, a great party system. Mario Kart 64, Smash Bros, and Diddy Kong Racing are still common pastimes with my friends.
As for the 64 controller: I love it. Sure the left prong is essentially useless, but if you hold the middle prong with your left hand, it's fine. And if you can't reach the buttons, move your hands closer; I don't see the problem.

Saturn vs. X-Box: Hmm, a battle between two systems I don't own. Well, if the Dreamcast suffered from poor marketing, the Saturn had it just as bad, plus it was nowhere near "ahead of its time" like the Dreamcast. Still, this console did host Nights into Dreams, as well as three Panzer Dragoon games, including the often-revered, rarely-seen Panzer Dragoon Saga. Still, as narrow as the X-Box's game library is (great if you like action, sports, or shooters!), it still has a great deal more options than the Saturn.

Atari 2600 vs. NES: I have to go with NES. The 2600 invented console gaming, but as has been mentioned, many of the games were ported from arcades. Plus, while I'm not a big graphics person, the NES games were just so vastly superior in construction than their early-80s counterparts. To be fair, this includes Nintendo's own pre-NES efforts: Super Mario Bros. is so much better than Mario Bros. that "Super" doesn't describe it well enough.
I think it says something that the NES lasted ten years in America, while the Famicom in Japan lasted 20. Now, the 2600's 14-year run is amazing, but 20 years! That's insane!

PSX vs. PS2: Hmm, really hard to say for me. I don't really know that much about either one, and without the in-depth knowledge, they seem very similar in style. I'll lean PSX for the sake of originality, as well as being the console that introduced Sony to the market, broke 100 million first, and got them their dominance.


EDIT: If I may, I'd like to introduce another battle:

Saturn vs. Dreamcast. The consoles whose consecutive demises more or less brought an end to Sega's console-making career.

[Orga777]

Also, Orga, just because something's popular doesn't make it good. Just like something that isn't popular, doesn't mean that it's bad.

That depends on the example. For instance Gamecube wasn't popular compared to the X-box and PS2, and it wasn't as good as either of them either.:p

Otherwise that kind of defeats us being Kaiju Fans, correct? Last I checked, they weren't popular. At all.

Again, that depends. I am 100% sure that in Japan, they are pretty popular.;) And if Godzilla himself wasn't popular, then he wouldn't have gotten a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Then again, you're someone who likes Naruto...

:intears: This coming from someone who like Power Rangers and Digimon?! Oh the humor in that line is astounding! :intears:

Anyway...
Sega Saturn vs. Sega Dreamcast. Again, this is simple. If I picked the DC over the N64, then I am going to pick it over a even much more inferior system.

[Burkion]

That depends on the example. For instance Gamecube wasn't popular compared to the X-box and PS2, and it wasn't as good as either of them either.:p

That's personal opion. In my views, Gamecube is better then Xbox.

Again, that depends. I am 100% sure that in Japan, they are pretty popular.;) And if Godzilla himself wasn't popular, then he wouldn't have gotten a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

He's not popular. If he was, he'd still have movies be made about him.


:intears: This coming from someone who like Power Rangers and Digimon?! Oh the humor in that line is astounding! :intears:

Actually, this sorta proves my point.

Back in the early to mid 90s, Power Rangers was UNGODLY popular. Far more then even Naruto and even Pokemon; hell they got their hand prints and boot prints on the Walk of Fame if I remember correctly. *The second season team, the one for the first Movie*

Does that make Power Rangers good?

[Orga777]

That's personal opion. In my views, Gamecube is better then Xbox.

Sales don't lie.;)

He's not popular. If he was, he'd still have movies be made about him.

You can't overkill the series. Do you WANT Godzilla to end up like Jason or any of those other slasher flicks that have too many movies? And FYI, Godzilla will be back. he ALWAYS comes back. Remember he took a break from the 70's till the mid 80's and what happened when the Heisei era started? Instant return to popularity. So I really don't know how you can say one of the biggest film icons not only from Japan, but around the world isn't popular. Go up to anyone, and I bet they at least know what Godzilla is.


Does that make Power Rangers good?
No. It doesn't. Which is why I found that reply humorous coming from you.:p

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Orga777
Sales don't lie.;)

And...? Sales don't prove what's better. According to that, at least for you, 64 should've been leagues ahead of Dreamcast.



No. It doesn't. Which is why I found that reply humorous coming from you.:p

You just proved his point...

[Burkion]

I love it when he bites his own ***...

Espcially when I'm the one who baits him to do it.

[Burkion]

Sales don't lie.;)

As Mirren said.

You can't overkill the series. Do you WANT Godzilla to end up like Jason or any of those other slasher flicks that have too many movies? And FYI, Godzilla will be back. he ALWAYS comes back. Remember he took a break from the 70's till the mid 80's and what happened when the Heisei era started? Instant return to popularity. So I really don't know how you can say one of the biggest film icons not only from Japan, but around the world isn't popular. Go up to anyone, and I bet they at least know what Godzilla is.


Guess what; go up to any random person who was born before the 90's/in the midst of the era, ask them about Power Rangers. They'll not only know who it is, but most likely will be able to spout out that they liked either Tommy, the Green guy, or will say that the original team was actually cool.

I'm dead serious about this too. It's kind of weird.


Again, does this make Power Rangers good?

No. It doesn't. Which is why I found that reply humorous coming from you.:p

Already covered.

Thank you and have a nice day.

[GMK12]

Well, back to the drawing board... Next match up is... The Nintendo DS (Original) vs the... Original Game Boy!!!

[rodanguirus]

Wow, I don't know. The original Game Boy has a heck of a resume, but the DS has not disappointed me yet. Give the DS a couple more years, and I can call this.

[PyrasTerran]

DS.

The gameboy didn't, couldn't, shan't impress me when I had the SNES with a whole 4 more buttons and capabilities. The original gameboy doesn't even compare. The DS has it beat in every catagory.

[Cole Deschain]

I dunno.

The old Game Boy wasn't really meant as an answer to SNES... it was meant as a spin on the old NIntendo. Look at the shape of the game cartridges.

Look at the games.

DS is actually a bit... flasier than I like.

Gimme my old black and white screen which I can't even see without external light. Gimme my simplistic gam,eplay (when they ported SNES games toi the old Game Boy, they had to make up rules on the fly- like "hitting A&B at the same time = Y")

It was hoot. It was just about obselte when they got it out, but it somehow parlayed into a lasting dynasty.

Not bad for a battery-guzzling system that's uselsss in the dark.

[HolyGoji777]

Your kidding right? First, Nintendo would not even EXIST without Atari's influence. Second, PONG pwns even most of todays games. Third, Atari made video games a actual market and not just a joke. Sorry, Nintendo cannot compete with what the Atari 2600 accomplished for the video game market. NO system can.

id have to disagree a bit here because i think its a bit more equal. the atari made video games fashionable thats for sure but the nes perfected the idea. the influence that the nes had is probably equal to if not greater than the atari.

im sure most of the things said about the nes could probably be said about the atari but i believe its to a lesser extent. i think the nes is still a bigger icon than the atari...i even see it where i work where we have nes novelty items. ataris biggest star is pac-man and i do see the occasional item from time to time but its no where near the frequency of mario.

speaking of pac-man he is a star no doubt but there really hasnt been life for him past the original (funny part is i had pac-man for the nes...probably worth a ton now lol).

i guess what im saying is you cannot argue the influence of the atari systems...they were my first and still a great system. but the nes took the idea to a whole new level. and while it probably wouldnt be there without the atari it still had an equal if not larger impact.

[Cole Deschain]

A bit of perspective- to my neanderthal of a father, ALL videogames are "Nintendo."

The man doesn't play videogames.
He doesn't like them.

But he knows the name of ONE manufacturer.

[Burkion]

And thus, the Big N wins.


Now, between the Game Boy and the DS...


I don't know.

If it was between Color and the Game Boy, I'd pick Color every time.

[Orga777]

And thus, the Big N wins.

Pfft. I still say Atari.:p

Now, between the Game Boy and the DS...

Go with the one that started it all, and that would have to be the Game Boy. It put handheld on the map, and Nintendo has made A LOT of money from their Game Boy systems. DS is still relativly new, so I will go with the GB.

[GMK12]

Ok, people, I got another fight, this time its the Dreamcast vs the 360!!! Both used the same strategy of being released early, and both SEEM to be heading towards the same fate, but WHO WILL WIN!?!?!?

[Burkion]

Pfft. I still say Atari.:p

Without reason or logic. Very bold of you.

Go with the one that started it all, and that would have to be the Game Boy. It put handheld on the map, and Nintendo has made A LOT of money from their Game Boy systems. DS is still relativly new, so I will go with the GB.

I'm going by what's more FUN.

That's the DS.

On the new fight, I'm going with 360. You get to kill zombies...

[Orga777]

Without reason or logic. Very bold of you.

I gave my reasons before hand thank you.

Dreamcast vs. X-Box 360
This one is also pretty easy. The 360 has the power and gameplay over the DC.

[GMK12]

Ok! Here is a new match-up I have been concocting! The N64 vs the Sega Genesis! Which was the better system?

[Hawanja]

N64, no contest. Genesis was underpowered, even when it was released. Plus all of the wacky add ons turn it into the leaning tower of lameness.

If we are talking games, then you need to think about which games have a longer lasting impact on the industry, which again I would say N64 with Mario 64 and the Zelda games. Sonic the Hedgehogs main contribution seemed to be "attitude," which is nearly laughable nowadays.

I do like Sonic though.

[Pug Puppy]

NES: The ability to tell a story with a game, is what makes this a true innovater.
SNES: Vastly improved ability of NES.
Genesis: What killed this console was the fact quality sequels to quality games were
mainly non-existent.
PS1: Great, wish they were still making new games for it.
N64: See above. Underappreciated by me.
Xbox: poor game marketing killed a great system.
Xbox360: This atrocity still lives?!
PS2: Only fault here is that you can't save PS1 games to your memory card.
Wii: Simply awesome.
PSIII: simply awesome.

The winners of the Next Gan:

Wii and PS3. They own the Next Gen world.

Gamecube: Mainly lame games killed it.

The Greatest consoles of all time.

Wii
PSIII
N64
PS2
PS1
Xbox
SNES
NES
Genesis

[PyrasTerran]

How can you call the 360 an atrocity? It has some of the best games out there, and a very solid online system.