FBZ Disscussion

[Shadow]

The reason it isn't here is because has no place on a Kaiju Site. It was one of the few things that was cut when we switched over.

I had put in a query about it about six months ago, and that's the message (or there abouts) that I recieved back.

[Raptor]

Of course, if someone would like to make a separate forum and manage it, we can always refer folks to it. Emperor V provided one on his bbBoy before it went to paid hosting.

[godzookie]

I could set up a proboard for this but I'll need somebody to work on the layout of the boards.

[Raptor]

A ProBoard is quite simple to configure and work with IMO. You might want to get with those who will be involved first to decide what it's going to be called as I don't think you'll be able to change the name in the URL once you sign up for a board. As well, "fantasybattleboard" and other long names might not be possible.

[godzookie]

Blue Devil asked for it in the site suggetion forum and it was suggested to create a seperate board so I went ahead and signed up a probard under the name superarena since battlezone was taken. The url can't be changed but another title could be put on the board.

It can be found at http://superarena.proboards59.com/

I was playing around a little so you will see some forums but they will most likely be deleted soon anyway. Some administrators will be needed to create skins and otherwise help with the general layout. If anybody has ideas for this please say here.

Almost forgot... this will be for discussion on non-kaiju battles.

[BS Digital Q]

Ok, I just got the new boards for the Fantasy Battle Zone RPG! Yeah, its a Roost Fighter/Crimson Battlefield rip-off, but considering this is a fantasy fight forum, I couldn't help but propose the idea.

Speaking of which...MM, YOU MUST JOIN!!

[Gorjirus]

Now that it has been made, will there be a link to it on Kaijuphile's/Rodan's Roost's Link page?

[Raptor]

Go ahead and post the EXACT URL. Then if someone makes a non-kaiju Karnage topic or such that would work better there, we can easily refer them to the right place. :)

[Gorjirus]

http://superarena.proboards59.com/

Whala!

[BS Digital Q]

Ok guys, what are you waiting for?! Get your butts over there and argue! And while your at it, how about joining the RPG as well?

[Gorjirus]

^You could always try just putting them in Fantasy Battlezone and just increasing traffic.

[juan]

Now wait, just hear me out.

For the newcomers, back in the day we had something called Fantasy battlezone which was what if so-and-so fought? Like... Darth vader vs Superman. I've seen matches on this what-if section that what if so-and-so fought?

Does this mean that we can place any battles we want here, no matter how fantastic?

[Burkion]

...we would like to have non curbstompage matches, if at all possible, much like nowadays with the Kaiju battles.

But if you wanted to, say, pit Omnimon against Thor, go right ahead.

[Gorjirus]

Especialy since the Fantasy Battlezone site sort of went into a funk and died.

(And that RPG was so awesome too...)

[Burkion]

I go by a more retro 'Blue Devil' here, so...yeah.


http://superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=166

[Raptor]

How about we turn my idea of a video game fighting thread into a reality? It could be a sub-topic under video games and would be just like Kaiju Karnage, where people could make up their own fantasy video game battles.How about a sub-sub forum under the General Chat's "What If..." one? Juan's post was initially in there, which "fits", IMO.
Another option might be for members who have such arenas on THEIR forums to go ahead and post the links IN THIS THREAD so everyone could see if they might fit the bill. KP isn't the only forum out there and I personally can't see having to "compete" for members across similar boards.
At the same time, those who are advocating a new forum HERE will have to decide on the rules and how it's going to work. Fair enough?

[Kevzilla]

Not to sound stuped or anything, but what is this 'Fantasy Battlezone'? is it like the Kaiju Karnage, or an Arena RPG?

[BS Digital Q]

The FBZ was once a board similar to KK that was on the old KP, back when it was in its "Rodan's Roost Forums" incarnation. It was revived as an entirely seperate forum for a few months before eventually becoming defunct. I briefly used the board to create an RPG, before giving the idea up. I think I might try reviving it again...

[juan]

I was once the happiest fantasy battler on all the site! And now this is back, hurrah!:laugh:

[Zearatul]

Because there wasn't a topic for this already.
So, opinions? Request?

Here are some starting points:

-The use of mythological characters is a trend I wish to see continued, because it allows for us to avoid characters that some users hate (My hate of Marvel, Cole's hate of anime, SpaceHunterM's hate of books :p)

-The "Beat _____" topics appears to have become another category of vs, this brings us to 3:
-Straight vs debate
-Survival Topics
-Beat Characters
But I would prefer that we avoid use of Godlike characters in replies to these. What do you guys think?

-The personal level attacks are getting annoying guys, you're better than that.

-It occurs to me that Star Trek characters are underrated. My point? They can stand toe to toe with, and have defeated Marvel characters. Gorjirus can confirm this.
I wanna see more Spock and such.


So, any other discussion points or opininos?

[SpaceHunterM]

Hey! I love books, if anything it should say video game characters outside of their video games :p

[Zearatul]

Pssh, same thing. :p

Also, sticky-ed!

[Zearatul]

I know he's banned, but would a Goku vs Superman topic be out of plausability? They're both very similar, what do you guys think.

[Gorjirus]

Already had one.

[Raptor]

-The "Beat _____" topics appears to have become another category of vs...Those are really neat IMO! I made a post about getting a formal BANNED LIST together. Usually, a character gets on it because it is quite powerful and has few (if any) viable opponents. With a "Beat _____" "challenge", even those uber dudes could be used. :cool:
-Straight vs debate
-Survival Topics
-Beat CharactersWe've got 7 pages of battles in here already, from animal face-offs to "Beat _____". There are various SOURCES of characters, from mythology to film, TV, books and comics. Could we use separate sub-forums for anything?
One I would suggest is REAL LIFE, such as EXISTING ANIMALS where it's been established what they can do. Non-super humans (Bat Man, James Bond) would also go in there. Thing about a FANTASY battle, the combinations are infinite. I believe we have at least one "YOU vs. (a serial killer/Great White or whatever)" match. Since it's got a human in there, it would go under the REAL LIFE heading.
TAKE ME DOWN! might be good for the "Beat _____" type characters, whatever their source or origin.
ONE-ON-ONE probably can be this MAIN forum.
MELEE BATTLES - More than two contenders facing off. That also should be a good place to START any tournaments and bring the "championship" o-O-o finale here.
Speaking of tournaments, when a Round is complete, LOCK IT.
OLD tournaments - If you don't need the completed rounds/discussion for anything, DELETE IT. "Dated" stuff probably isn't looked at ever again.
Anything else come to mind?

MODS - NOMINATIONS ARE OPEN FOR THE FBZ! Someone go start a topic and stick it.

With a "front page" exposure, it's time to get ORGANIZED, people!
-The personal level attacks are getting annoying guys, you're better than that.Oh oh! :hmmm: We're not talking POLITICS here. This is MAKE BELIEVE, right? :p I find someone pushed the envelope, I've a good mind to TURN THEIR POST PURPLE.

[Raptor]

That and think you guys said cryptic animals of reality aren't allowed in Kaiju Karnage.KK is strictly KAIJU. FBZ is intended for matches between everything else, from humans to aliens; ghosts, goblins and "assorted" critters. An easy way to think of it is, "If it doesn't come under KK, do it in FBZ!" :laugh:

[Orga777]

KK is strictly KAIJU. FBZ is intended for matches between everything else, from humans to aliens; ghosts, goblins and "assorted" critters. An easy way to think of it is, "If it doesn't come under KK, do it in FBZ!" :laugh:

Unless of course they are from Cthulhu Mythos, DBZ, or God.

[Scorpion13mk2]

Unless of course they are from Cthulhu Mythos, DBZ, or God.


Which is something I dont agree with.

[BS Digital Q]

Meh. The current setup is fine as is, activity is just down until the next tournament comes along (I have a big idea for one, but the underwhelmingness of SSS right now has me concerned).

[BS Digital Q]

Nope, just not yours.

[BS Digital Q]

Everything. Nobody likes the TK-style tournaments over here. Now, quit griping and just accept it. Sooner or later something'll come up for ya.

[Gorjirus]

BS, will this idea allow an IM contestant?

[BS Digital Q]

Don't understand what you mean. What idea and IM-contestant?

[Gorjirus]

Your idea for a tournament, and could I enter some Iron Man related character?

[BS Digital Q]

You'd have to see the list of available characters for it. Granted, its a big list, so there shouldn't be any real problems.

My main concern is the simple fact that my idea may not attract much attention on the simple basis of its subject matter and a rather extensive complexity, so I doubt I'll do any time soon, not until I think the climate is right for it.

[BS Digital Q]

Okay, ignoring the other problems I have with the list, many of which stem in part from my viewings of ranking characters from multiple franchises against one another in general, I'll just say this: the title is a massive misnomer. This should be called the Fictional Character Ranking System. In no way shape or form do comic book or anime characters belong on that list if we are talking specifically about kaiju (which isn't the case).

Also, if the goal of this list is to inform its readers about the power level of certain characters, then its already failed, what with grouping The Borg, Thanos, Big Venus, and GOD all in the same tier. None of those characters even belong together in a single tier, as the power gaps between them are absolutely MASSIVE. And that's just from casually reading the very last section.

Additionally, the whole thing reads like one person's idea of who should go where, and really is very shoddily put together. No evidence is really put forth as to why one character is put in one section or another, which only furthers the impression of its arbitrariness (though thats a problem you'll encounter in one form or another in any list like this, hence why I'm opposed to the concept in general). This hurts its credibility.

The best ranking systems are self contained and limited solely to their particular franchises of interest, and even those have problems. But if you want examples of good rankings, here's a couple:

1. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=425758

This thread is great because it specifically relies upon evidence and presents that evidence to the reader, and gives specific reasons why a character is at a certain rank, backing up claims with evidence directly from the source. The major problem with it is that the thread is the work of only one person, and while its arguments and the evidence used to support them can be quite convincing, a casual reading of the thread shows that there are people who strongly disagree with it. Thus, its hardly an objective thread (though the creator certainly seems to try), is most definitely arbitrary.

2. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t447826.html

From the same site we have a more 'official' thread. This list is more broad categorically than the other, but is backed up by the views of many voters. There are discussions one can read to see what sort of thinking went into forming it, which certainly makes it more credible than the preceding list. A greater amount of input can (but not always) insure that the bias of one individual does not influence how the ranking is done (now, the bias of an entire group is another story...). And while there is no evidence directly referenced, the same website has an entire forum for specifically posting scans of various feats to use as evidence for this sort of thing. Last, but certainly not least, its rules are more comprehensive and specific, carefully placing exact limits to help organize and focus the rankings.

Anyway, I *will* close this thread (or worse) if you respond to this post in any way AH. I'm not going to be dragged into another discussion with you about anything. Anyone else I don't give a **** about, but just so we're clear about this, no discussion, or you get the axe. Savvy?

[Godzilla]

The problem with the official kaiju ranking system....besides all the things that BSDQ listed, is that any ranking system would still be debatable. Rather than ranking him, a Tier system with no official rankings of the kaiju in each tier would be a better system. Actually, BS's second link is a perfect example of the type of system that I think would be used. And of course, you have to pick carefully who is on the list to begin with. If this is kaiju, then you need to use the DD eligible kaiju list as a starter, and at certain other obvious kaiju that might have not yet be allowed into the DD (Such as Ultraman kaiju). But you would also need a group of people to agree upon which kaiju would be allowed on the list rather than one single person. (also much like BS suggested)

[Godzilla]

I agree that a fantasy ranking system would not need to be as limited as the DD, but a kaiju ranking system does need to use the DD as a base. I tend to use kaiju and daikaiju interchangeably, so by kaiju ranking system I do assume you mean daikaiju. However, you list does include non-kaiju such as real life Bruce Lee and smurfs. But the idea that you can list such a large range of kaiju and have definite rankings is rather.....well....naive. If the purpose is for people to post closer Fantasy Matches then, while the ranking every individual kaiju would theoretically useful, it simply isn't pratical and serves the same purpose as a tiered system anyways.

[Godzilla]

The KRS will never scale opponents to different sizes so it will be even, those with varies are set at maximum size. Not only that but it only turns off invulnerability, everything else is allowed.
Did you just answer 2 questions that I never asked?

I meant the list of DD kaiju not the scaling of the DD kaiju.

[Godzilla]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. The KRS is too crowded with non-kaiju.

[Godzilla]

Whoops, my bad. No, the KRS will not lessen any fighters; only time that was ever done was with Greek Medusa from Clash of The Titans due to Stone Gaze unaffecting blobs and possibly machines.
Are you.....are you even reading what I'm posting?

[Godzilla]

I did, you said it's over crowded and I said I'm not getting rid of any.
You worded it in one helluva wierd way. At anyrate, having such characters such as Sponge Bob on your list is really counter-productive. I'm not in favor of using the KRS at all if you're not opening to trimming it down.

[BS Digital Q]

Merged this into the main FBZ Discussion thread to keep things tidy.

[Seer235]

Ignoring everything else, I agree with BS's statement (well, his entire post, but I'm just mentioning one point) that it should not be called the Kaiju Ranking System unless you restrict it to kaiju (which you clearly refuse to do). Aside from that, I've made my opinions on strict ranking systems well known.

[Orga777]

Yep, going with the majority here. BSDQ's post explains it all perfectly. AH, get over it. The "Ranking" System you have sucks.

[Seer235]

While I know we had to make a basic tier-ish list for DD X-2 (though I think that's largely based on the general opinion on the kaiju, so you could say there's plenty of stuff to back it already), I really don't like strict tier lists, especially if you're using it to decide anything.

For example, look at Dagarah vs. Gomora. Dagarah defeated Mothra Leo, who would dominate Gomora. And yet, there are very good arguments for Gomora, and cases where Dagarah could clearly lose.

These rankings don't take into account fighting style, and how the styles match up between kaiju, or special weaknesses, or anything of that sort. That's why I don't like these lists.

A general grading system (with lots of thought, and making it very clear that we're trying to gauge strength, not strict superiority or inferiority) could work, but it would take a whole lot of time and effort.

[Seer235]

What do you mean? Fighting styles are always the first thing that is looked at before something goes in.

Then you should realize that some fighting styles work better against some opponents than others. For example, Heisei MechaGodzilla functions exceptionally well against a Heisei-style beamer, but much more poorly if a brawler manages to get in close.

Or Megaguirus would be much better against a ground-bound opponent. Or any Mecha.

[Godzilla]

Think of it this was AH.
There are 3 kaiju: kaiju A, kaiju B, and kaiju C.
kaiju A will always beat kaiju B.
kaiju C will always beat kaiju A.
kaiju B will always beat kaiju C.

Which kaiju is ranked higher than the other?

[Godzilla]

None, you're doing a rock-paper-scissors effect (which is inaccurate because paper can not cover the entire Earth's crust nor could scissors conquer liquid paper).
Ok, when that situation comes up with kaiju, how do you figure out how to rank those kaiju?

[Cole Deschain]

Meh. The current setup is fine as is, activity is just down until the next tournament comes along (I have a big idea for one, but the underwhelmingness of SSS right now has me concerned).

The problem with being a messageboard based on a niche fandom is the old guard drop out of site when there's nothing new to chew on.

When you've already pondered Legion vs. Jiger for the six billionth time it's rather hard to muster enthusiasm.

[BS Digital Q]

AI has no bearing on a character's abilities or characteristics in-game. Video game characters can judged based on feats and characteristics demonstrated outside gameplay. Gameplay is standardized so a character can beat another regardless of how powerful they are outside gameplay. Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat are examples of discrepancy between the two: both games feature characters that can routinely cause mass destruction, yet in-game don't vaporize decidedly human and normal opponents with one punch the way they would in canon. If gameplay was done the same as the story, a character like, say, Akuma, would kill many of the other SF cast with one hit.

Video games set up this artificial 'leveling' so you can, you know, play the game. Because of this, however, they can't be judged on any merit, at least not based on gameplay. AI doesn't change this. Neither does some vague bar system.

If either of your characters had feats and sequences outside of gameplay from tie-in source material, they could be judged. But they don't. Therefore, they are not usable.

This is the final word AH. I will not tolerate these sort of matches in the FBZ, and further argument will be deleted and this thread locked if you continue. So stop bringing your boo-boo's over TK not allowing video game fighters over here.

[BS Digital Q]

No, I unlocked it. And your argument is moot. Consider your posts marked as spam.