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Kaiser Kronos
October 10th, 2007, 04:33 PM
After all the slaughter of US soldiers in Iraq, it's high time another nation goes in and attacks somebody there! After all, the situation isn't unstable enough, nooooo, we need the Turks to get involved. :sarcasm:

From Talking Points:

Turkish Government Seeks Lawmakers' Approval for Attack on Kurdish Guerrillas Based in Iraq
SELCAN HACAOGLU
AP News
Oct 09, 2007 15:58 EDT
Turkey's ruling party decided Tuesday to seek parliamentary approval for an offensive against Kurdish rebels based in northern Iraq, a move that could open a new front in the Iraq war and disrupt one of that nation's few relatively peaceful areas.

The government did not say it had decided to launch such an attack, which could jeopardize Turkey's ties with the United States. The U.S. warned against sending troops across the border and urged Turkey to work with Iraq's government to quell the Turkish Kurd guerrillas.
"If they have a problem, they need to work together to resolve it, and I'm not sure that unilateral incursions are the way to go," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. "We have counseled, both in public and private, for many, many months, the idea that it is important to work cooperatively to resolve this issue."
In the past, Turkish troops have made small-scale "hot pursuit" raids into Iraq that officials say do not require Parliament's approval. The last major incursion against the militant separatists operating out of Iraq's Kurdish region was in 1997.
There are widespread fears that a Turkish offensive would destabilize Iraq's Kurdish area, which has largely escaped the violence and political turmoil afflicting regions dominated by Shiite Muslims and Sunni Arabs.
Iraqi Kurds, who run a virtual mini-state in Iraq's north, have vowed to defend their borders. A spokesman for the Iraqi Kurdish regional government, Jamal Abdullah, urged Turkey on Tuesday to drop the idea of a military attack.
"We call upon the Turkish government to exercise self-restraint and not to turn the region into an unstable one," he said. "Such attacks will threaten the stability not only in Iraq but the whole region."
Turkey's decision to seek a parliamentary go-ahead was made during a three-hour meeting between Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and officials from his governing Justice and Development Party, said a leading member of the party who was at the meeting.
The party wanted the measure to pass "as soon as possible" and would try to present it to Parliament on Wednesday, the lawmaker said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. He insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.
Earlier Tuesday, the government said it had begun preparations for a military operation into Iraq in pursuit of the rebels after a series of deadly attacks on soldiers in recent days outraged Turks.
Turkey previously had said it would prefer that the United States and its Iraqi Kurd allies in northern Iraq crack down on the rebel Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, which seeks to create an autonomous Kurdish state in Turkey's predominantly Kurdish southeast.
"Institutions concerned have been given the necessary orders and instructions to make all kinds of legal, economic and political preparations to end the presence of the terror organization in a neighboring country in the upcoming period, including if necessary a cross-border operation," said a statement issued after Erdogan met with security officials.
Over the last 10 days, more than two dozen soldiers and civilians died in attacks by PKK rebels in the southeast. The group, labeled terrorist by Washington and the European Union, has fought Turkish forces since 1984 in a war that has killed tens of thousands of rebels, soldiers and civilians.
The public mood made it likely Parliament would move quickly to approve an offensive.
It wasn't clear if Turkey's military planned to strike immediately after approval or wait to see if the action would prod the U.S. and its allies to take robust action against the PKK bases.
However, Turks already have debated a cross-border offensive through much of the year and any further delay could hurt the credibility of the tough-talking government. The military declared months ago that it was ready for an incursion into Iraq.
Turkey's army staged two dozen large-scale incursions into northern Iraq between the late 1980s and 1997. The 1997 operation involved tens of thousands of soldiers and government-paid village guards.
While legislators took up the question of an attack into Iraq, Turkish troops supported by air power pressed ahead with an offensive in Turkey's Sirnak province close to the border. They targeted suspected escape routes for Kurdish guerrillas in the mountainous area.
Turks are furious that PKK rebels carry out attacks on Turkish soil and then slip across the border to sanctuaries in northern Iraq. Turkey has accused Iraqi Kurds of tolerating their ethnic brethren in the PKK.
Under intense pressure from leaders of Iraqi Kurds, Iraq's national government refused to allow Turkey to send troops across the border to chase the rebels under a counterterrorism pact the two countries signed in September.
Turkey does have potential nonmilitary weapons. It could close its border crossings with northern Iraq, which are major source of business for the Iraqi Kurd economy.
But the latest string of attacks by the PKK ramped up public pressure on Erdogan, who has been accused by the opposition of lacking determination to act.
"America is going 10,000 kilometers (6,200 miles) to hunt down terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. But we can't go 30 kilometers (20 miles), we cannot step into northern Iraq?" complained Abdulmuttalip Hanedan, a village guard leader in Sirnak.

Source: AP News (http://www.ap.org/)

EternalMothra
October 10th, 2007, 06:28 PM
Great...now things get worse.

Cole Deschain
October 10th, 2007, 07:56 PM
Eh.
This is a fight that's been on the way for a long, long time.

And we're clearly willing t annoy the Turks...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7038762.stm

SpaceHunterM
October 10th, 2007, 10:02 PM
Wow... Bush was the tactful one in this case.

Gorjirus
October 10th, 2007, 10:04 PM
Where's Hawanja? WHERE'S HAWANJA?!

I need his insightful insight into a political situation.

Dr. Strangelove
October 10th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Wow... Bush was the tactful one in this case.
...

*grabs neconomicon and looks outside*

Hmm...by lord, I do believe the Stars are Right...

It's the only way to explain it.

EternalMothra
October 10th, 2007, 10:52 PM
Eh.
This is a fight that's been on the way for a long, long time.

And we're clearly willing t annoy the Turks...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7038762.stm

That's all we need is to annoy another group of people....doesn't like half the world hate us by now lol?

Hybrid Gojira
October 11th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Where's Hawanja? WHERE'S HAWANJA?!

I need his insightful insight into a political situation.


Erm. Question of the century?

Kaiser Kronos
October 17th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Now the Turks have okayed the incursion, though they haven't sent actual ground forces yet.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071017/ap_on_re_mi_ea/turkey.

Great, now the war spreads because Dubya didn't deal with terrorists in the North......:nonono2:

Cole Deschain
October 17th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Because the Kurds are a constituency he wants to woo.

Goji Son
October 17th, 2007, 07:49 PM
Now the Turks have okayed the incursion, though they haven't sent actual ground forces yet.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071017/ap_on_re_mi_ea/turkey.

Great, now the war spreads because Dubya didn't deal with terrorists in the North......:nonono2:

Ok, I can understand a lot of flack that Bush gets but this is stretching it a bit much. Northern Iraq has been relatively peaceful and they have cooperated with the US throughout this war. A small group of Kurdish terrorists attacking Turkey is minor compared to what has happened between the Sunnis and Shiites and the civil war that is going on in Iraq. Why risk causing the only part of Iraq to spiral into the same violent downturn like the rest of the country all because Turkey can't pin the PKK. They've already had troops stationed there with the Kurd's permission and it's not like we have the man power to stretch our troops everywhere in the country.

Either way to look at it, this was probably going to boil down into violence. If we had tried to take care of this, Northern Iraq would be like the rest of the country, and this is the conclusion to the opposite decision. It's looking like this could end very badly.

Kaiser Kronos
October 17th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Because the Kurds have been killing Turks for 20+ years, and neither the USA nor the Iraqis seem inclined to force them to quit it. Not to mention that switching a few words around and you can find an incident a year ago where the USA used the same reasons to support an armed incursion into a foreign country.....

Goji Son
October 17th, 2007, 08:14 PM
Because the Kurds have been killing Turks for 20+ years, and neither the USA nor the Iraqis seem inclined to force them to quit it. Not to mention that switching a few words around and you can find an incident a year ago where the USA used the same reasons to support an armed incursion into a foreign country.....


Ok, still don't see how this falls onto Bush's shoulders since he hasn't been around for 20 years. You might as well blame Bush senior as well along with Hussein since they didn't do jack either.

Kaiser Kronos
October 17th, 2007, 08:15 PM
And I do blame them both, however the latest incursion just happened to occur while Dubya has troops on the ground....;)

Goji Son
October 17th, 2007, 09:10 PM
And I do blame them both, however the latest incursion just happened to occur while Dubya has troops on the ground....;)

You do understand that there are strategies to war and that not everything can be included because it's not feasible given troop numbers or if a more serious situation deserves more attention? Turkey is not in economic shambles over these raids, they are doing rather well for themselves.

The PKK should be stopped but it's not something that is not on the US's platter, they have their own mess to clean up. If Turkey wants to settle this with violence then that's their choice, they've tried once before with little success, but they have no reason to cry about the US being apprehensive when they have to control a religious civil war that they started. If Turkey wants to join the fray, they better understand that they could make this so much worse than it already is. Instead of the predominantly Kurdish provinces along the border of Turkey being attacked, there could be car bombs in Istanbul.

Cole Deschain
October 17th, 2007, 09:13 PM
Because the Kurds have been killing Turks for [I]20+ years

The Turks are hardly angels of mercy in that regard, just so ya know.

Goji Son
October 17th, 2007, 09:19 PM
The Turks are hardly angels of mercy in that regard, just so ya know.

No ****ing kidding.

Kaiser Kronos
November 9th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Couple new updates on the Turks'N'Kurds (like Ben & Jerry's, except with death and destruction):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/turkey_kurds;_ylt=A9G_R3Mi_jRHCEcBeQDtfLkA

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20071108/wl_csm/osoot2_1

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/07/africa/kurds.php?page=1

So, to sum up:

Turks'N'Kurds heading to peace in the Mideast, fighting in Europe, and Turkish farmers may cancel the whole thing for the Turkish government. Darn, my interest in a revived Ottoman Empire has failed! :angry::p;)