Console Wars: Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360

[GMK12]

Hello denizens of Kaijuphile. I just wanted to see if you guys preffered any one of these over the other. As a person owning all 3 systems ( and receiving them on all three of their designated launch dates) I no doubt root for the Wii. Having Twilight Princess, I discovered the utter joy of the new control schemes that Nintendo has made. The controllers feel like an orgasm in your hand and the overall size of the Wii is very small. This coupled with the intuitive new system is its all important controller. As I have stated above the controllers are VERY comfortable and are VERY revolutionary. Wii sports display these traits excellently and with frightening efficiency. Although graphics wise the Wii is definitely not competing with the ps3 or the 360, It is still next- gen and I trully think ( DO NOT get mad at me microsoft fanboys) that even the Wii's graphics are better than the Xbox 1's graphics. The processor is also pretty nice and its memory ( both developed by IBM) is good too. That is my case for the Wii so far. The Xbox 360 has an all around controller that has an old- school feel to it yet is cleatly next- gen. The X- box's games are fantastic and the gameplay overall is in second place to me ( the Wii being the best gameplay and the ps3 last so far). The CPU is I believe the best of the 3 and the interface is very eye catching ( unlike the eye sore that is Wii's Wii channels.) The game that I am addicted to now, Gears of War is trully a masterpiece and is the epitome of the Xbox 360 now. This is my case for the 360 so far. The Ps3's controller is sticking to its original design, definitely catering to the masses needs. Its however very light and does not include the very enjoyable dual- shock. It has been replaced by a tilt sensor. The monstrous ps3 is the largest in price and size. It's CPU is very good and its graphics processing unit is also highly advanced. The XMB is back and is a very easy to use interface with new options being added in. The versatility of the ps3 is unquestionable and is not centerd on gameplay any more, as it is more than ever centered on being an all around media player. The two games that I have, Resistance: Fall of Man and Call of Duty 3, certainly showcase the potential of the ps3. The enormity of the system however is evident and it is hard to put in to tight spaces which matter to some people. This is my case for the ps3 so far. Although I enjoy all 3 systems, I definitely root for the Wii because of its readiness and its revolutionary control mechanisms. Please choose one of these excellent cjoices. I also would like to announce my 1 month leave of kaijuphile. I would try to come as earlier as possible. The reason being, I am spending some time with my 2 new systems and my 360.

[GMK12]

Oh and if you voted neither, please explain why.

[godofPH]

Hahaha...A person who has all 3 of the Next Gen consoles sides with the Wii, whats that say to you, Sony Fanboys?

[Burkion]

The Wii.

As far as sales go, X Box is winning due to having a year's head start, with Wii coming in second, and PS3 in a far third.

[kritaya]

I don't care about console wars. I only care about good games that appeal to me. However, it seems a bit premature to declare one system the winner and one the loser. We won't know which system will define this generation for at least another year, maybe two. Yes, the Wii looks interesting and new now, but what's going to happen when the PS3's killer aps start appearing? MG4, FF13, GTA4, etc., etc., the games that are going to make the PS3 a must-have. When those come out, that'll be when we can begin to judge which console will come out on top. Provided that even means anything which to me it doesn't. I hope all three consoles do well and there are a lot of interesting new games and sequels to established series.

[kritaya]

As far as sales go, X Box is winning due to having a year's head start, with Wii coming in second, and PS3 in a far third.

That's ridiculous. The Wii had more units for launch than the PS3, so of course it's going to be second. If the PS3 had equal to or more units to sell than the Wii at launch, I guarantee it would have sold out, no matter the price difference.

[Dino Hunter 2.0]

I think it's a waste of time to sit there and argue (usually, viciously) with each other over the quality of a gaming console, which is why I usually stray away from the "console wars". I personally don't judge a system by all the silly things fanboys do (NOTE: Not calling you all fanboys. Please keep your daggers to yourself, eesh!), like what beloved classics are being remade for whatever system, or how much giga-whatever a system holds, or how top of the line a systems graphics are. I buy gaming consoles to play games, plain and simple. I don't play favorites with companies or consoles, I just buy the console with the most games I want to play.
That being said, I'll go ahead and say, I'm planning on purchasing the PS3. The price is absolutely ridiculous, and by now I've developed quite a dislike for Sony. But it's got lots of games that I want to play, so I'm going to wait out the price and glitches and get one. Maybe the 360 as well, it looks to have some amazing FPS games, so if I can scrounge up the cash for two consoles I'll definately try.
And the Wii? Nope, not even an option, sorry. I don't care if it is the cheapest, I don't care if they do hand out free cofee & donuts & seat cushions, I don't care how fun you say the wiimote is. I just don't like any of the games on the system, and so, have absolutely no reason to buy one. ;)

PS: If I sound a bit bitter, sorry. Ever since they announced the next-gen consoles, I've been having to listen to a bunch of whiny fanboys bragging about their favorite system and ragging on all the others. It's gotten really old, really fast...

[Doc Ock]

I do plan on getting a PS3. When the prices and all the other BS dies down that is. I just find it a more appealing system than the Wii. The 360 is a great system and all, but I would just rather wait for a PS3 and be happy with what I have now.

[Cole Deschain]

Since I'm a broke hombre, I vote for none of 'em. I have better things to throw my scanty resources at.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by kritaya
I don't care about console wars. I only care about good games that appeal to me. However, it seems a bit premature to declare one system the winner and one the loser. We won't know which system will define this generation for at least another year, maybe two. Yes, the Wii looks interesting and new now, but what's going to happen when the PS3's killer aps start appearing? MG4, FF13, GTA4, etc., etc., the games that are going to make the PS3 a must-have.

GTA4's going to be on 360, so that's nothing for PS3 to brag about anymore. Same with Assassin's Creed.


It's personal bias of course, but right now I like the Nintendo Wii the best, followed by 360, which may just earn a purchase out of me if I can find the money in the next year or so. I haven't played enough of PS3 (and we haven't seen enough in general) for me to get a legit standpoint right now. However, I can say with a clean conscious that it had one of the most lackluster launches in gaming history.

[Neo-Crucifer]

The controllers feel like an orgasm in your hand :eh:




...Moving on, the one I most want as of right now is the Wii, as I've always been more of a Nintendo loyalist. Plus, it's got games like the new Zelda and Metroid Prime, which I am really wanting to play- and, of course, cheapness!!!! $$$$!!! I already own a 360, have since last Christmas.......and I have one game for it. Yeah. Then again, Call of Duty 2 is quite fun and I'm looking forward to future releases on the 360. PS3... like Mirren said, the launch was nothing to brag about, and the prices are insane. One might as well just wait a month or so and get a PS2. Those'll be selling for real cheap nowadays, and you've less chance of being killed over it.

[Orga777]

The Wii.

As far as sales go, X Box is winning due to having a year's head start, with Wii coming in second, and PS3 in a far third.

Yes, it is called a shortage Burk. Of course the others will get a head start on the PS3 just for the sheer fact that there arn't many PS3's out yet.

As for right now, I think the PS3 is going to demolish the competiton in the long run. The first year will be slow for sure due to the shortage and the price. BUT later on when the shortage is over and the good games start to come out, that is where Sony again takes the reigns of the video game market.

[Goji Son]

It seems like there is always one word associated with the Wii: orgasm. As good as that sounds, it's getting quite disturbing.

[Burkion]

It IS rather weird.

Maybe playing the Wii will give you spontanous orgasms?


...Nintendo's way to win!

[Mecha-Rodan]

It seems like there is always one word associated with the Wii: orgasm. As good as that sounds, it's getting quite disturbing.
I think its a disease, quite frankly. Nintendo has released an airborne virus that causes spontanious Wiigasms, if you will, whenever it hits a potential victim (nerds, Nintendo fans, future nerds, ect...). We must fight back! Before its too late...

But all mockery aside, I'm opting for a 360, just because it already has a few kickass looking games on it, and because it is only going to get better. It has a fair middle-grounds price between the PS3 and the Wii (what in gods name does that mean anyway?), and I cannot freaking wait until Halo 3 comes out. Until then, I will be able to play Gears of War to keep me occupied. That is, of course, when I actually buy the system itself, lol.

Next I would have to go for the PS3, simply because the PS2 had a lot of good games and was my favorite console until I bought my XBox. It does seem a bit ungainly and monstrous, though.

Eh, I'd get a Wii if I had a kid or nephew or something. It just doesn't appeal to me.

[PyrasTerran]

what's going to happen when the PS3's killer aps start appearing? MG4, FF13, GTA4, etc., etc., the games that are going to make the PS3 a must-have.

As for right now, I think the PS3 is going to demolish the competiton in the long run. The first year will be slow for sure due to the shortage and the price. BUT later on when the shortage is over and the good games start to come out, that is where Sony again takes the reigns of the video game market.


Not with a pricetag as high as $500 dollars. And I'm not sure if they can afford to drop it to Xbox 360's level of price, which by now isn't that bad.

One might say "wait and see, they'll get their boost", but while people are waiting, Wiis and Xbox's continue to be sold and by the time the PS3 is finally in a position to make it, big surprise, everyone already has an Xbox and/or a Wii.

The conundrum is this:

If it is the games and accessories, not the console, that makes the real dough for the gaming companies, how does Sony expect to make it with so few consoles?

Wii not only gets money from its games and periphs, but even the virtual console which, like 360's Live Arcade, is likely going to be a very popular channel for a Wii-user to visit.

[kritaya]

Maybe playing the Wii will give you spontanous orgasms?


...Nintendo's way to win!

If the Wii comes in third place, will that make it a case of coitus interruptus?

It does seem a bit ungainly and monstrous, though.

I saw one yesterday at Best Buy. The sleek design had the opposite effect on me, emphasizing how big it was. I don't think it's as big as the Xbox, but then the Xbox never tried to hide how big it was. Looking at the PS3 is like looking at a funhouse mirror that makes fat people look skinny. :laugh:

[kritaya]

Not with a pricetag as high as $500 dollars. And I'm not sure if they can afford to drop it to Xbox 360's level of price, which by now isn't that bad.

The day before the PS3 went on sale, the price of the 360 (ignoring the core system because that's a joke) was $399. I thought that was pretty bad for a videogame console. The day after the PS3 came out, the price of the 360 was still the same.

They're both overpriced. A $600 PS3 does not make a $400 360 a bargain, at least not to me.

The conundrum is this:

If it is the games and accessories, not the console, that makes the real dough for the gaming companies, how does Sony expect to make it with so few consoles?

Erm...with time? Do you think that there are Sony execs going "ZOMG!!!11!! We'sa in third place after a week!!! We'sa D00000MED!!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Wii not only gets money from its games and periphs, but even the virtual console which, like 360's Live Arcade, is likely going to be a very popular channel for a Wii-user to visit.

And Sony has no plans AT ALL for their own online stuff? Boy, they really got caught with their pants down on that one. :sarcasm:

[PyrasTerran]

The day before the PS3 went on sale, the price of the 360 (ignoring the core system because that's a joke) was $399. I thought that was pretty bad for a videogame console. The day after the PS3 came out, the price of the 360 was still the same.

They're both overpriced. A $600 PS3 does not make a $400 360 a bargain, at least not to me.


But you fail to realize that alot more people have 360's. They drop the prices of consoles when enough people have them and are now using their money to buy games. Therefore it's all too reasonable to believe that the 360's price could drop all the way to $300 before the PS3 gets a chance of dropping its own price.

Erm...with time? Do you think that there are Sony execs going "ZOMG!!!11!! We'sa in third place after a week!!! We'sa D00000MED!!!!

Oh, and what are Wii and 360 doing during said time? Are their sales suddenly, frozen or something?

As I said,

"One might say "wait and see, they'll get their boost", but while people are waiting, Wiis and Xbox's continue to be sold and by the time the PS3 is finally in a position to make it, big surprise, everyone already has an Xbox and/or a Wii."

And Sony has no plans AT ALL for their own online stuff? Boy, they really got caught with their pants down on that one.

It's a matter of being able to even pay for it. Most of Wii's internet capabilities are absolutely free, and while 360's require a fee, theirs is still a fantastic online system. To top both of the competition, PS3's better online system would have to be as expensive, if not moreso, and I honestly don't know how you can continue to burn a whole through your pocket if it's already been charred from buying the system, a second controller and a $60 game in the first place.


The PS3 is not a bad system at all, and no one can argue it has the best capabilities out of the three.


But people also have to keep in mind that a great majority of PS2's success wasn't just from the games... it was from the DVD player.

The PS2 came out at a time where regular DVD players cost $200-$300(I remember buying one). The PS2 doubled as both a good gaming system and as a DVD player. It certainly wasn't the lineup that saved the PS2 in the first months(as the lineup was quite horrible). Still, it goes without saying that a good portion of the PS2's usage was DVD-related. It was a cheap DVD player that doubled as a gaming system, making it a practical steal at a time when people were still getting used to DVD's.

But Sony doesn't have that advantage this time. This time their sales pitch is Blue-Ray, HD, and the like. While HD is something that, like DVD's, it's only a matter of time for people to get into, Blue-Ray I'm not so certain.

A great majority of people who buy DVD's never bother looking at the special features, so why make a disc with even more space if the bigger portion of consumers aren't that interested in a behind-the-scenes documentary or a library or concept art and storyboards?

As a result, the more powerful the disc makes a more expensive game. $60 for a game, to be exact.

Does anyone know how much the Controller for a PS3 would cost??

All these need to be taken itno account, Kritaya.

If Sony doesn't make at least ends meat within the first few months, it's going to be crippled for the rest of the race.

[PyrasTerran]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/PyrasTerran/061012.jpg

[GMK12]

That cartoon is hilarious Mr. Pyras. Oh and Taking into account where this argument is going, I'd like to bring up the issue of customer service. Lets not forget the Ps3 and the Wii launches. The Ps3 was probably the most violent and unentertaining launches in history. The Wii's launch was spectacular, festive and joyful. Even Reggie was there. Does Nintendo care about its customers? Or does Sony? Plus Sony to me has become more and more like greedy communists than video game developers and such.

[GMK12]

If you would like to compare the three system's respective launches, It's on gamespot. I can't find the links right now.

[MirrenDono]

I'd like Sony and their PS3 much more if they didn't keep POUNDING you and POUNDING you with BAD news after BAD news after BAD news.

(don't reply to this if you don't get the joke)

[La Bestia Negra]

according to german pc newspaper nintendo sold over 100 Mill. Wii´s on the first day ...they are sold out with more wii´s expected this week

[kritaya]

Well, I can't argue with VGCats. It's too funny. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Plus Sony to me has become more and more like greedy communists than video game developers and such.

*shakes head in disbelief*

Yeah, of course, that...that has to be it...

Ah well, enjoy your new consoles, whichever they may be. I'll be waiting for the price drops.

[Goji Son]

Ah well, enjoy your new consoles, whichever they may be. I'll be waiting for the price drops.

Just save your money for the PS4.

[Dino Hunter 2.0]

Here's a comic I did not too long ago that pretty much sums up my opinion on the PS3. Figured I'd post it, since there's already one PS3 comic in this thread. :P

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/43121916/

Full view. BTW, yes, I now realize BlueRay would've made more sense than BlueTooth...

[Saruman]

Not with a pricetag as high as $500 dollars. And I'm not sure if they can afford to drop it to Xbox 360's level of price, which by now isn't that bad.

One might say "wait and see, they'll get their boost", but while people are waiting, Wiis and Xbox's continue to be sold and by the time the PS3 is finally in a position to make it, big surprise, everyone already has an Xbox and/or a Wii.

The conundrum is this:

If it is the games and accessories, not the console, that makes the real dough for the gaming companies, how does Sony expect to make it with so few consoles?

Wii not only gets money from its games and periphs, but even the virtual console which, like 360's Live Arcade, is likely going to be a very popular channel for a Wii-user to visit.

Pyras you do realize that if you actually add all the component parts to the 360 to make it equal to what you get from the $600 PS3, that the 360 comes in at over $100 more than the PS3. You do actually realize this don't you?

360 HD-DVD drive alone cost $200, you get the Blue-Ray player with the PS3.

X-Box Live Gold is $50 a year, Sony Online for the PS3 is FREE.

Thats already an additional $250 for the 360 which sells for $400 putting it at a total of $650, MORE than the PS3, and that is only one additional part and the online you have to pay for. Start throwing in more 360 accessories to bring it more up the power and abilities of the PS3 and you start cranking that price difference up even more.

[Saruman]

It's a matter of being able to even pay for it. Most of Wii's internet capabilities are absolutely free, and while 360's require a fee, theirs is still a fantastic online system. To top both of the competition, PS3's better online system would have to be as expensive, if not moreso, and I honestly don't know how you can continue to burn a whole through your pocket if it's already been charred from buying the system, a second controller and a $60 game in the first place.

Only Sony's online system is FREE, thus thrashing your point totally.

The PS3 is not a bad system at all, and no one can argue it has the best capabilities out of the three.

True.

But people also have to keep in mind that a great majority of PS2's success wasn't just from the games... it was from the DVD player.

The PS2 came out at a time where regular DVD players cost $200-$300(I remember buying one). The PS2 doubled as both a good gaming system and as a DVD player. It certainly wasn't the lineup that saved the PS2 in the first months(as the lineup was quite horrible). Still, it goes without saying that a good portion of the PS2's usage was DVD-related. It was a cheap DVD player that doubled as a gaming system, making it a practical steal at a time when people were still getting used to DVD's.

But Sony doesn't have that advantage this time. This time their sales pitch is Blue-Ray, HD, and the like. While HD is something that, like DVD's, it's only a matter of time for people to get into, Blue-Ray I'm not so certain.

A great majority of people who buy DVD's never bother looking at the special features, so why make a disc with even more space if the bigger portion of consumers aren't that interested in a behind-the-scenes documentary or a library or concept art and storyboards?

As a result, the more powerful the disc makes a more expensive game. $60 for a game, to be exact.

This is what your missing, the larger space on the Blu-Ray disc's is being used to put different features on disc's such as multi-language tracks on games. Thus a game that is only released in Japan may have an English track, Spanish Track, German track, ect. on it meaning that you can purchase the game online and when you get it you can actually play it in your language. This is something Sony is pushing game developers to do and as the developers get more accustomed to making PS3 games, you will see it much more often. The larger size also allows for many other things that you won't be able to do on HD-DVD or Wii games as they lack the space to contain certain features Blu-Ray will have.

Does anyone know how much the Controller for a PS3 would cost??

Less than you would think because they have dropped the "rumble" feature, reducing the cost and the weight of the controller. People actually prefer the new controller because of how light it is, though many do miss the rumble feature, though I can easily do without that as I never really cared for controllers that did that.

All these need to be taken itno account, Kritaya.

If Sony doesn't make at least ends meat within the first few months, it's going to be crippled for the rest of the race.

Sony has already sold out every system it has shipped, and they will continue to sell out each shipment because they have still not filled all pre-orders. Do you think Sony has not calculated what they are doing? If you do then you are kidding yourself.

[Saruman]

Ah well, enjoy your new consoles, whichever they may be. I'll be waiting for the price drops.

There isn't much point in trying to get a new system before christmas anyway, both the PS3 and Wii still haven't filled pre-orders so unless you have a pre-order your chances are pretty slim. 360 you can probably get though since it's been out for a year already.

[godofPH]

Sony has already sold out every system it has shipped, and they will continue to sell out each shipment because they have still not filled all pre-orders. Do you think Sony has not calculated what they are doing? If you do then you are kidding yourself.

See the cartoon that Pyras posted in here earlier.

[kritaya]

See the cartoon that Pyras posted in here earlier.

Yeah, and then there's the comment I read yesterday that the reason there were more Wii's than PS3s at launch is because the technology is so inferior to the PS3 it makes them easier to manufacture en masse...

[Goji Son]

Yeah, and then there's the comment I read yesterday that the reason there were more Wii's than PS3s at launch is because the technology is so inferior to the PS3 it makes them easier to manufacture en masse...

Ah yes, but does better technology make for more fun? People are so pre-occupied with processor speed and graphics that they forget what makes games fun in the first place.

Honestly, I think everyone should be going outside, getting some exercise and letting their imagination do all the work. It's more fun, social and you don't get carpel tunnel.

[Saruman]

Ah yes, but does better technology make for more fun? People are so pre-occupied with processor speed and graphics that they forget what makes games fun in the first place.

True, and God of War 3 will only be found on one system.;)

Honestly, I think everyone should be going outside, getting some exercise and letting their imagination do all the work. It's more fun, social and you don't get carpel tunnel.

But the light, it hurtssssss me eyesssss.:laugh:

[Raptor]

That cartoon is hilarious Mr. Pyras. Lets not forget the Ps3 and the Wii launches. The Ps3 was probably the most violent and unentertaining launches in history.Free publicity, I'd say, even if not the best kind. The Wii's launch was spectacular, festive and joyful. Does Nintendo care about its customers? Or does Sony? Plus Sony to me has become more and more like greedy communists than video game developers and such.There are several poignant observations about the MARKETING in this thread. I smell plain out MANIPULATION. Does not lack of availability add to DESIRE; the old one-upmanship deal? The so-called "holiday season" is bad enough with the commercialism that started pretty much back around Halloween. Roll out in time for Christmas was no doubt part of the plan. Now we have the DAY AFTER TURKEY DAY exodus to the mallls, often while it's still dark out. What is the matter with people who continue to feed this mess? :confused: And so many people get "down" on Wal-Mart for trying to offer low prices and good value...

[Cole Deschain]

Yeah, and then there's the comment I read yesterday that the reason there were more Wii's than PS3s at launch is because the technology is so inferior to the PS3 it makes them easier to manufacture en masse...


Oh, you mean like VHS vs. Betamax? :darklord:

[Burkion]

That's EXACTLY how I see the DVD VS Blue Ray **** go down.

VHS VS Beta Max.


Who cares if Beta Max was suposed to be better; VHS won.

[godofPH]

Oh, you mean like VHS vs. Betamax? :darklord:

Oh yes, I've been waiting for this to be brought up

*waits for a Sony Fan to retaliate*

[kritaya]

Oh, you mean like VHS vs. Betamax? :darklord:

I don't know what I mean. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm only pretending to care. :laugh: :laugh:

Who cares if Beta Max was suposed to be better; VHS won.

Actually Beta was superior to VHS. I had a friend who owned a Betamax, and on technical merits alone it should have won. VHS may have proved more popular, but that doesn't mean it was the better product. VHS was a triumph of marketing, not technology.

And Nintendo is not without its own misteps. Does anyone remember the Virtual Boy? No? Not surprising. It was a flop that ended the career of Gunpei Yokoi...the same man who created the Gameboy.

[Burkion]

See, the simple fact is this; you don't have to be more advanced to win; just be cheaper and appeal to more people.

Hmmm...oh, that sounds like a DVD!

DVD=VHS.

Blue Ray=BetaMax.

[Saruman]

See, the simple fact is this; you don't have to be more advanced to win; just be cheaper and appeal to more people.

Hmmm...oh, that sounds like a DVD!

DVD=VHS.

Blue Ray=BetaMax.

You mean like how the cheaper N64 beat the PS1?

Or how the GC beat the PS2?

Yeah cheaper sure does appeal to more people. :darklord:

[kritaya]

See, the simple fact is this; you don't have to be more advanced to win; just be cheaper and appeal to more people.

Yes, those who appeal to the lowest common denominator usually win. Franks 'n beans, PCs, Windoze, PS1, PS2...

Actually, the system that usually comes out on top is the one with the most third-party support. In that regard, Nintendo's last two systems have been abysmal. It's all about the games, who has the most games the most people want to play. Without games, innovation means nothing. Without games, systems are just pieces of abstract art.

Hmmm...oh, that sounds like a DVD!

DVD=VHS.

Blue Ray=BetaMax.

Your argument is flawed. The DVD was the successor to VHS, like the CD was to the LP (or cassette tape, whichever). It didn't have any competition. Blu-ray, on the other hand, is competing against HD-DVD. Both technologies have their supporters in Hollywood studios. But, like all good companies, they're hedging their bets, putting out movies in both formats, because at this point no one knows which format will become the standard. It is even possible that neither one will win out over the other and we could just have two formats, co-existing peacefully side by side. Or maybe both will flop, who knows?

[Burkion]

You mean like how the cheaper N64 beat the PS1?

Or how the GC beat the PS2?

Yeah cheaper sure does appeal to more people. :darklord:

Note, I said cheaper AND appeals to more people. Not that cheaper means it appeals to more people.

That and N64 games weren't cheap, and the Game Cube didn't do that bad, came in second world wide.

[MirrenDono]

^ No, it didn't. XBox beat it by a couple million systems.

For the record, there is no one factor that decides how popular a system is. But it's safe to say that some of the bigger motivations are; a diverse and quality game library, unique and interesting features, online play (getting bigger and bigger) and in some cases, a cheap price tag.

[Burkion]

I thought the GameCube won over all, world wide. Huh.

[Goji Son]

Your argument is flawed. The DVD was the successor to VHS, like the CD was to the LP (or cassette tape, whichever). It didn't have any competition. Blu-ray, on the other hand, is competing against HD-DVD. Both technologies have their supporters in Hollywood studios. But, like all good companies, they're hedging their bets, putting out movies in both formats, because at this point no one knows which format will become the standard. It is even possible that neither one will win out over the other and we could just have two formats, co-existing peacefully side by side. Or maybe both will flop, who knows?


You are forgetting about price, HD and BluRay discs and players are way more expensive then DVDs for the obvious reasons and the only difference is disc space and slightly better picture quality. That's another big reason Beta went away, it had nothing to really offer for the price and so people when for the cheaper VHS that was easier to manufacture and use. DVD took off because it offered things VHS could never accomplish like documentaries and menus and other gimmicky stuff. HD TVs can bump up a regular DVD's picture quality to nearly match an HDs anyways and since now there are two formats competing for the coveted spot that is reigned by a much cheaper product, they will probably just cancel eachother out.

I can see HD and Blu Ray taking the same path as Beta, used by media productions exclusively for their disc space and slightly higher picture quality and that's about it.

[Cole Deschain]

I smell the next Laserdisc.

[Goji Son]

I smell the next Laserdisc.

Bingo! Bango!

[Burkion]

...

Bongo.

[PyrasTerran]

Only Sony's online system is FREE, thus thrashing your point totally.

Good.

I won't want to bash the PS3. It has friggin' Lair.

This is what your missing, the larger space on the Blu-Ray disc's is being used to put different features on disc's such as multi-language tracks on games. Thus a game that is only released in Japan may have an English track, Spanish Track, German track, ect. on it meaning that you can purchase the game online and when you get it you can actually play it in your language. This is something Sony is pushing game developers to do and as the developers get more accustomed to making PS3 games, you will see it much more often. The larger size also allows for many other things that you won't be able to do on HD-DVD or Wii games as they lack the space to contain certain features Blu-Ray will have.


It also means more expensive games. 60 dollars standard, I believe, and I can imagine a high-end game like a Final Fantasy one being 65.(Square-Enix did have the audacity to sell FF3 at a whole 40 bucks for the DS...)

Less than you would think because they have dropped the "rumble" feature, reducing the cost and the weight of the controller. People actually prefer the new controller because of how light it is, though many do miss the rumble feature, though I can easily do without that as I never really cared for controllers that did that.

So, who knows the price??

Sony has already sold out every system it has shipped, and they will continue to sell out each shipment because they have still not filled all pre-orders.

Of course it did, with a pathetic 400,000 units stateside? s'like in the comic.

Do you think Sony has not calculated what they are doing? If you do then you are kidding yourself.

I don't think, i KNOW.

They didn't calculate being forced to sell so few units because of shipment issues with Blu-ray, after all. and as said by Mirren, there was a string of bad-luck-bad-news reports from the president of it all himself.

[Seer235]

Of course it did, with a pathetic 400,000 units stateside? s'like in the comic.

Wasn't it really more like 260,000 units released in the US?

[Sauron]

Honestly, I think everyone should be going outside, getting some exercise and letting their imagination do all the work. It's more fun, social and you don't get carpel tunnel.

You're just saying that because you suck at videogames.

Oh, and HIT 60 ALREADY!!!

:spidey:

[Orga777]

Heh... Saruman and kritaya took it to the masses while I was away... playing FF12... They seemed to have covered everything I would have said on the matter. But just wait and see in the long run. PS3 is going to take it to the competition when the shortage is over.

[GMK12]

Simply said and with all due respect Mr. Orga... I do not agree...

[Gorjirus]

Shortage...over... you mean, by like... March? Of 08?

:p

With all the bugs I have heard of, they had better get all of those fixed.

[Cole Deschain]

Heh... Saruman and kritaya took it to the masses while I was away... playing FF12... They seemed to have covered everything I would have said on the matter. But just wait and see in the long run. PS3 is going to take it to the competition when the shortage is over.


Oh, the self-induced shortage? Real sign of competence, that.


They're ensuring that some gamers, even some who are SALIVATING for the PS3, are going to pick up one of the other systems in the interim, just to get their next-gen fix while they WAIT.

[Orga777]

Shortage...over... you mean, by like... March? Of 08?

:p

With all the bugs I have heard of, they had better get all of those fixed.

Bugs are a basic part of gaming systems that are first released. It happened with EVERY single system and it will continue happening forever. And the shortage will end soon. It won't last a hole year. It will be fine. As I said before. Sony gets the benifit of the doubt till other wise noted.;)

[Goji Son]

You're just saying that because you suck at videogames.

Oh, and HIT 60 ALREADY!!!

:spidey:

You may have kicked my *** in real life but meet me in the Gurubashi Arena and let's see what goes down.

[Wiz]

It is not so surprising that the 360 has the most sales since it has been out so long. And the Wii is in second, but for all we know that could be soley due to the fact that they shipped many more than the PS3, which was conveyed so elequently in Pyras's comic. That was funny by the way.

Personally, I think in the end the Wii will come out on top because of a few key things: 1) There are many more people who are loyal to Nintendo and will not by any other consoles simply because they are not Nintendo. 2) The feature of being able to download previous Nintendo and Sega (!!!!) games, as well as being able to play Gamecube games makes it very attractive. 3) The new controller that allows you to actually play golf, tennis, or swing a sword like you would in real life is freakin' awesome I think, and I'm sure that there are plenty others that like the interactiveness of that feature. Those three things that alone are qualities that the other systems don't have which puts the Wii at an advantage.

As far as the PS3 having the blue-ray discs for the multi-language feature and the other things, for most people, or at least a lot of people, that doesn't make that much of a differance and/or it isn't a signifigant enough feature for the price difference. I mean, let's face the facts: we are some cheap people, and we love our money! My first thoughts after seeing a 600 dollar system with 60 dollar games: suddenly my gamecube looks pretty good! A 250 dollar system, especially considering all the features it has to offer: I can live with that.

What it is going to boil down to is the people that don't care about prices will probably go with the PS3, except the Nintendo loyalists. And the people who want a more affordable system will get the Wii. And every once in a while a confused customer will by a 360. :p

[GMK12]

Wiz summed it up perfectly.

[PyrasTerran]

Something to note:

Lessay there are 400,000 units of PS3 sold. For hypothetical reasons let's say they're all $600 versions.

And there are 4,000,000 units of Wii stateside as well. All $250 each.

If all PS3 units are sold by the end of the year, that makes:

$240,000,000 possible, and that's if they were all $600 units.

If all Wii units are sold by the end of the year, that makes:

$1,000,000,000 possible.

This is not including the prices of periphs, aka extra controllers, games, etc.

[Orga777]

Personally, I think in the end the Wii will come out on top because of a few key things: 1) There are many more people who are loyal to Nintendo and will not by any other consoles simply because they are not Nintendo. 2) The feature of being able to download previous Nintendo and Sega (!!!!) games, as well as being able to play Gamecube games makes it very attractive. 3) The new controller that allows you to actually play golf, tennis, or swing a sword like you would in real life is freakin' awesome I think, and I'm sure that there are plenty others that like the interactiveness of that feature. Those three things that alone are qualities that the other systems don't have which puts the Wii at an advantage.

You mean the same loyal people that DIDN'T by the Game Cube? The same loyal people that made the Game Cube the least bought system? Those same loyal people that all swarmed to the PS2 and the X-Box?

As far as the PS3 having the blue-ray discs for the multi-language feature and the other things, for most people, or at least a lot of people, that doesn't make that much of a differance and/or it isn't a signifigant enough feature for the price difference. I mean, let's face the facts: we are some cheap people, and we love our money! My first thoughts after seeing a 600 dollar system with 60 dollar games: suddenly my gamecube looks pretty good! A 250 dollar system, especially considering all the features it has to offer: I can live with that.

Except it is actually a bargain for $600. And Sony wants this to be more than a game system. This is supposed to be a full entertainment system. And ti fulfills that big time.

What it is going to boil down to is the people that don't care about prices will probably go with the PS3, except the Nintendo loyalists. And the people who want a more affordable system will get the Wii. And every once in a while a confused customer will by a 360. :p

There really aren't as many Nintendo loyalists as their used to be. That was evident in the last generation. They may get back some people, but how many is uncertain with the 360 and PS3 around.

[Seer235]

Except it is actually a bargain for $600. And Sony wants this to be more than a game system. This is supposed to be a full entertainment system. And ti fulfills that big time.

Yknow, that is the one thing that I really can't stand about the PS3. I'm ok with everything else, heck, everything else looks awesome. Good controller (I liked the PS2 controller a lot), great graphics, a cool opening game, almost no systems with bugs. I am just not willing to pay $600 for a game system and I don't care how you try to justify the cost.

Yeah, Blu Ray, the wave of the freaking future, is included. Wow. I buy these things to play games, not to use what will quite possibly be the next Betamax. Maybe if Blu Ray were as big a step up from DVD as DVD was from VHS it'd be a big deal. But what does it have? More storage space? Because clearly storage space, and not scene selections or anything, was the reason DVDs were so amazing. HD capabilities? Wow, it looks slightly better! And seriously, anything aside from that and internet capabilities is a gimmick (not sure if they dropped all those BS extra stuff they were talking about a while ago).

And to top all that off, you are in no way guaranteed to get one for the next year! Wow! Not only is it a $600 system, but it's in such short supply I'll need to trample people and basically win a lottery to get my hands on one in March (cause its sure too late to get one now). This system must REALLY be great!

Yeah, the price bothers me just a bit. Although $350 for a Wii, extra controller, and Zelda seems to be stretching it, so it might just be me.

[PyrasTerran]

You mean the same loyal people that DIDN'T by the Game Cube? The same loyal people that made the Game Cube the least bought system? Those same loyal people that all swarmed to the PS2 and the X-Box?

Er... the Gamecube wasn't such a horrid failure, you know.

You may find this hard to believe but the American-made Xbox wasn't exactly that popular everywhere else in the world. Especially not in the homeland of Japan.

So while the Xbox may have been the victor here in the States, it's no surprise that everywhere else the biggest crowdpleasers were the PS2 and Gamecube. Heck, I never saw one Xbox owner in every outting I went to while in Holland.

Except it is actually a bargain for $600. And Sony wants this to be more than a game system. This is supposed to be a full entertainment system. And ti fulfills that big time.

There are those, analysts, who are inclined to disagree.

Im going to take some paragraphs from IGN's review of the launch. I am only selecting the negative parts to prove that the Sony PS3 launch was not the fufilled success some are claiming it is. The good parts are about things we already know(such as the hardware capabilities, potential, and controller):

- ...Sony's homegrown launch content definitely suffered with the loss of perceived day one titles like MotorStorm, Warhawk, and Formula One. It also wasn't helped by mediocre to slightly better than mediocre products, Days of the Blade and Blast Factor. And while NBA '07 is certainly good basketball for those willing to give it a chance, let's be honest --- it's just an improved version of a PS2 game that we played in October. Collectively, that's not a lot to get excited about.

But Sony's one shining gem in all this, and easily the best game on the system, is the Insomniac-developed Resistance: Fall of Man. It's an outstanding sci-fi take on the traditional war-based first-person shooter that offers unusual weapons, cool settings, and great stages. But it's the 40-person multiplayer that really stands out. There are options galore for this thing when playing online and Insomniac plans to support it for a very, very long time. It's one of my favorite overall games this year, and without it, Sony's first party showing (and the entire PS3 library) would have been the epitome of "anti-climactic."

- ...If you've detected a common theme with the games above, it's because there is one -- most of the launch titles were available on other platforms or were sequels to existing franchises. In fact, of the 12 third party PS3 games available today, only Cash Guns Chaos was an original IP. Then again, it's so close to Smash TV and Total Carnage that it's almost debatable.

That lack of originality and straight-up title porting is what takes away from the PS3's third party launch lineup the most. Sure we had some good, sometimes even great sports titles to choose from, but they were all available on other platforms before Sony's system even hit the market. Having weaker versions of these games didn't help either. <- pay attention to this sentence: Some multiplatform games were actually technically WEAKER in graphics and programming(such as Marvel Ultimate Alliance).

For those praising the PS3's Online for some reason...> - ...The PlayStation Network is Sony's first attempt at an infrastructure similar to Xbox Live and it shows; it's still suffering from growing pains. First the good news, 11 different retail launch titles shipped with online functionality right out of the gate, and Insomniac's Resistance leads the pack with the same 40-player goodness I touched on earlier. Ridge Racer, the 2K sports games, and EA's online options are pretty good too, while the remaining networked titles work well albeit in a somewhat limited fashion.

Additionally, two ho-hum, but available downloadable titles were ready to go on launch day, while pretty sweet demos of MotorStorm and Formula One became more popular than some full-fledged titles for sale in the stores. I'm also glad to see the PlayStation store using actual dollars instead of points, and the extra HD movie trailers are worth a look too.

But there's still a lot of work to be done. Compared to Wii Connect and Xbox Live, the browser-powered navigation feels sloppy and slow. It's also not entirely clear what's new and what isn't unless you're lucky enough to stumble on a list that appears semi-randomly. There isn't a unified friends system that tells you who's online and who isn't either, and you can't multitask downloads which is shame because the speeds right now are on the sluggish side.

But what does the PlayStation Network need more than anything? Achievements. Call them entitlements, accomplishments, triumphs, ponies... call them whatever you want -- just give them to me. Without them, there's little incentive to play a cross-platform title on the PlayStation 3 again. What's more rewarding: Tilt functionality for throwing punches in a shooter, or a way to publicly display your successes to all who'd check forever?

- ...But the real success of a system launch is giving the consumers the product they want and delivering on the promises that your company has made. You don't have to travel back in time very far to remember that Sony slashed its US and Japanese launch numbers considerably -- scaling back from an expected two million units for launch worldwide to 500,000 for America and Japan (and that's just a claim, the actual numbers have yet to be revealed). At E3, Sony announced that four million units would be ready to go by the end of the year, but now that's looking like it'll be somewhere around the "one million and change" mark. Also don't forget that Europe and Australia had their launch days pushed back four months all the way to March.

Two more tragic scenarios plagued the launch as well. First, there was a smattering of violence surrounding the system -- including isolated robberies, fights, and even a shooting in a few small pockets around the country. While these incidents weren't Sony's fault, they were quickly picked up on by the press and it gave a more negative spin to what was supposed to be one of the company's (and the industry's) biggest moments. The other negative aspect was the eBay reselling. People who didn't stand in line to get their console on day one were subjected to immense markups -- with some systems and bundles going for as much as $4500. Today's auctions have cooled to the 1K to 2K range, but with almost 20,000 active auctions for the system playing out as I write this, it makes you wonder how many gamers got a system as opposed to resellers.

When you consider all these points, and combine them with the somewhat disappointing lineup of initial software, the under-developed online functionality, and a few of the other issues I mentioned earlier, you end up with a launch that looked strong on the surface but not so much underneath.

Of course, there's plenty of good points. You can read the whole thing here:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/747/747413p1.html

There really aren't as many Nintendo loyalists as their used to be. That was evident in the last generation. They may get back some people, but how many is uncertain with the 360 and PS3 around.

I don't know where you're getting this. It's a very good time to be a Nintendo baby. So far, both the Ds and the Wii, radical systems that people predicted a downfall for months before their release, are doing very well for themselves. Apparently Zelda: Twilight Princess is the #1 game in Canada((http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747353p1.html)). The Wii is even catching up and surpassing the PS3 in the eBay race(be that good or bad)((http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747361p1.html)).

If anything, the Nintendo atmosphere hasn't been stronger since the SNES.

[Sauron]

Something to note:

Lessay there are 400,000 units of PS3 sold. For hypothetical reasons let's say they're all $600 versions.

And there are 4,000,000 units of Wii stateside as well. All $250 each.

If all PS3 units are sold by the end of the year, that makes:

$240,000,000 possible, and that's if they were all $600 units.

If all Wii units are sold by the end of the year, that makes:

$1,000,000,000 possible.

This is not including the prices of periphs, aka extra controllers, games, etc.

Don't forget to factor in that Sony loses $241 for every 60gb PS3 they sell, and $306 for every 20gb unit sold.

Here's a link to the full article:

http://ps3.gamespy.com/articles/746/746671p1.html

[Saruman]

Er... the Gamecube wasn't such a horrid failure, you know.

Huh, what are you talking about, if it wasn't for the GBA and DS, Nintendo would have had to declare bankruptcy. The GC was killing them because it fell so far below their expectations it wasn't even funny.

[Saruman]

Don't forget to factor in that Sony loses $241 for every 60gb PS3 they sell, and $306 for every 20gb unit sold.

Here's a link to the full article:

http://ps3.gamespy.com/articles/746/746671p1.html

You did notice that those are not actual facts and only what they believe it to be? But thats really besides the point, gaming systems always lose money so it's expected. X-Box lost a ton of money for Microsoft and the GC would have bankrupt Nintendo if not for the sales of the GBA and DS keeping them above water. Sony didn't start making money on the PS2 until about 2 years into the system, which is quicker than normal because it sold so well. So it's not like it's a suprise and was pretty much expected.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Saruman
Huh, what are you talking about, if it wasn't for the GBA and DS, Nintendo would have had to declare bankruptcy. The GC was killing them because it fell so far below their expectations it wasn't even funny.

Apparently you don't know how Nintendo is still making money on every GC that's sold at $99. Now, if they're making money off such a low price, imagine how much they were making while the system was $150-$200, during the years when it was selling fairly well.

The Gamecube only started going down the drain around mid to late 2004, up until then, it wasn't being blown out by XBox or PS2, it still had some steam. From the launch in 2001 to 2004, it performed nicely.

It's safe to say that Nintendo may've faced a bunch of financial problems if not for the DS and Gameboy, but probably not to the extent of bankruptcy. The console sales weren't outright horrid, and the software sales were pretty good. Gamecube wasn't a failure, it was a disappointment.



Originally posted by PyrasTerran
I don't know where you're getting this. It's a very good time to be a Nintendo baby. So far, both the Ds and the Wii, radical systems that people predicted a downfall for months before their release, are doing very well for themselves. Apparently Zelda: Twilight Princess is the #1 game in Canada((http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747353p1.html)). The Wii is even catching up and surpassing the PS3 in the eBay race(be that good or bad)((http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747361p1.html)).

If anything, the Nintendo atmosphere hasn't been stronger since the SNES.

It really does appear that Nintendo's on a verge of a breakthrough. With DS sales being some of the most impressive stats in recent years, and the Wii rapidly growing in popularity, they may just be able to get a solid reputation back.

[Dino Hunter 2.0]

It's funny, before I thought the $600 PS3 was expensive... then I realized that with the $100 hard drive and $50 monthly fee, an X-Box 360 costs $1000 dollars, and an additional $600 every year afterwards... Now I'm thinkin' I'll just buy a laptop. ;)

[godofPH]

Speaking of the DS, I've noticed that the Sony fans are oddly silent about the DS outdoing Sony's handheld...

[Wiz]

Except it is actually a bargain for $600. And Sony wants this to be more than a game system. This is supposed to be a full entertainment system. And ti fulfills that big time.

Yknow, that is the one thing that I really can't stand about the PS3. I'm ok with everything else, heck, everything else looks awesome. Good controller (I liked the PS2 controller a lot), great graphics, a cool opening game, almost no systems with bugs. I am just not willing to pay $600 for a game system and I don't care how you try to justify the cost.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Ok, it may be a bargain for the things it offers. But think about this: A box containing a blow dryer, 2 old cassettes, a box of nails, and a pocket mirror, all functioning properly, for 50 cents is a bargain. For what those items normally cost, it is a good price. But really, who is going to want, or be able to use all those things? I realize that the example is a little shrewd, but you get the idea. It is great that you get all those things, and it is a good price for what you get, but the simple fact is it is more than most people are willing to pay. Me personally, I would much rather play the games I know and love on my gamecube and not spend any money than go and spend 600 dollars on a knew system, and I know there are a lot of people like that.


funny, before I thought the $600 PS3 was expensive... then I realized that with the $100 hard drive and $50 monthly fee, an X-Box 360 costs $1000 dollars, and an additional $600 every year afterwards... Now I'm thinkin' I'll just buy a laptop.

Well put. :p

[godofPH]

Maybe if Blu Ray were as big a step up from DVD as DVD was from VHS it'd be a big deal. But what does it have? More storage space? Because clearly storage space, and not scene selections or anything, was the reason DVDs were so amazing. HD capabilities? Wow, it looks slightly better! And seriously, anything aside from that and internet capabilities is a gimmick (not sure if they dropped all those BS extra stuff they were talking about a while ago).

We don't need HD-DVD/Blu-ray, the replacement to the DVD is already here: Illegal downloading of pirated films :p

[PyrasTerran]

Huh, what are you talking about, if it wasn't for the GBA and DS, Nintendo would have had to declare bankruptcy. The GC was killing them because it fell so far below their expectations it wasn't even funny.

X-Box lost a ton of money for Microsoft and the GC would have bankrupt Nintendo if not for the sales of the GBA and DS keeping them above water.

The reason I can't take these claims seriously is because:

The GC beat Xbox in many other regions, including Japan and Europe, and

the DS came out in the final death throes of the GC. It didn't factor into keeping Nintendo afloat, as if they really needed it.

The fact of the matter is a helluvalotta kids and nintendo fans still had gamecubes, and to this day gamecubes are still being bought.

[Orga777]

Speaking of the DS, I've noticed that the Sony fans are oddly silent about the DS outdoing Sony's handheld...

Um, yea? And? I said that from the beginning that Nintendo OWNS the hand held market. I own a GBA after all and will probably get a DS later on. Nothing on the PSP appeals to me while there is A LOT on the DS that I want to play.


The reason I can't take these claims seriously is because:
The GC beat Xbox in many other regions, including Japan and Europe, and
the DS came out in the final death throes of the GC. It didn't factor into keeping Nintendo afloat, as if they really needed it.

Except now the X-Box out sold the GC overall across the glob. Gamecube was a complete failure. And they aren't counting all the systems that were traded in for PS2's or X-Boxes either.

The fact of the matter is a helluvalotta kids and nintendo fans still had gamecubes, and to this day gamecubes are still being bought.

And to this day the PS2 and X-Box are still being bought, so what point are you trying to make? The Gamecube and original X-Box don't even make a scratch at the market now so it doesn't matter at all that some of them are being bought.

[Gorjirus]

Except now the X-Box out sold the GC overall across the glob. Gamecube was a complete failure. And they aren't counting all the systems that were traded in for PS2's or X-Boxes either.


So, if Gamecube had outsold the X-Box, then IT would have been a "complete failure"?

3rd in a three man race doesn't make you a complete failure.




EDIT: Some linkage: http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747728p1.html

[Orga777]

So, if Gamecube had outsold the X-Box, then IT would have been a "complete failure"?

Not necessarily. Remember Microsoft was just getting into the market and did not have a following outside the US as much as Nintendo did. Also it was an American company that produced the system so there were probably a lot of skeptics especially in Japan. BUT when you take the American audience by storm and totally man handled the GC the way the X-Box did the rest of the world will soon follow when they realize that the GameCube did not have any capability to out beat the X-Box or the PS2.

3rd in a three man race doesn't make you a complete failure.

Last place is last place no matter how you put it. And when the game developers abandon the system that right there equals failure.

[Gorjirus]

^No it doesn't. It isn't complete failure. Last place doesn't mean complete failure.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

A complete failure is losing by several miles, a loss is losing by a few yards.

Iam not a sport person, but I think you get the point.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Orga777
Last place is last place no matter how you put it. And when the game developers abandon the system that right there equals failure.

...what game developers? Practically no one was there from the start. They didn't ignore the system because of Gamecube's quality, but because they were pissed at Nintendo for being ***holes for so long. And because Playstation had a larger market from the get-go of the last generation.

Better arguments, please.

[Wiz]

Wait a sec, wasn't this thread about the wii, 360, and PS3.....

How easily we get distracted....:p

EDIT: Ummm, for those who still think that the 360 and PS3 are almighty, just look at the poll. I think that the poll reflects the general opinoins of us gamers, after all, that's why it was put there.

Here are the poll results for those of you who are too lazy to scroll up and look ( you know who you are :angry: )

PS3: 3
360: 3
WII: 13

The poll has spoken......

[godofPH]

Wait a sec, wasn't this thread about the wii, 360, and PS3.....

How easily we get distracted....:p

Oh Wiz, this is standard for these console debate threads...

[PyrasTerran]

Except now the X-Box out sold the GC overall across the glob. Gamecube was a complete failure. And they aren't counting all the systems that were traded in for PS2's or X-Boxes either.

So, if Gamecube had outsold the X-Box, then IT would have been a "complete failure"?

3rd in a three man race doesn't make you a complete failure.

That's the problem. One thinks that because it came in third it is a complete failure. It was not. It had great games and was popular enough considering the competition.

To this day, in fighting game tournaments, if Smash Bros. or Smash bros. Melee are present they always have the biggest crowds.

[Orga777]

Here are the poll results for those of you who are too lazy to scroll up and look ( you know who you are :angry: )

PS3: 3
360: 3
WII: 13

The poll has spoken......

:intears: I hope you are kidding. First of all this board is FULL of Nintendo fans compared to Play Station or X-Box fans. That is like saying which is better PS3 or Wii on a PS3 board. The answer would most certainly favor the PS3 now wouldn't it? So your philosophy here is flawed.

That's the problem. One thinks that because it came in third it is a complete failure. It was not. It had great games and was popular enough considering the competition.

Not really Pyras. Sure GC had some good games, but so did the Dreamcast.

...what game developers? Practically no one was there from the start. They didn't ignore the system because of Gamecube's quality, but because they were pissed at Nintendo for being ***holes for so long. And because Playstation had a larger market from the get-go of the last generation.

Which means it failed! The game developers not being their SMASHED the system to bits. Nintendo had to do it on thier own and got run over by the competition. Besides, there was not a hole lot too appealing from teh GameCube. Most of the titles were for the younger crowd. Of course it did have its gems like Metriod Prime and SSBM. I would have said RE4 if it didn't sell just as well on the PS2....

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Orga777
Which means it failed! The game developers not being their SMASHED the system to bits. Nintendo had to do it on thier own and got run over by the competition. Besides, there was not a hole lot too appealing from teh GameCube. Most of the titles were for the younger crowd. Of course it did have its gems like Metriod Prime and SSBM. I would have said RE4 if it didn't sell just as well on the PS2....

Yet it still sold over 20 million units and had some of the best games of the last generation, and it made a significant amount of money for Nintendo, even in 2005 when it was really on its last legs.

You really don't know what a failure is, do you? You want a failure? Look at something like Jaguar, or CD-I. It's very clear that the Gamecube came up short on several levels, but a failure never even comes close to the successes it did find.

[Gorjirus]

I think Orga has the fan(boy) view of failure.

Not the actual meaning for a product being a failure. For a product to be a failure it must either: 1) fail to meet some preset goal or 2) be an economic failure.

Not "It was 3rd! It is a failure blahblahblah etc."

[PyrasTerran]

Not really Pyras. Sure GC had some good games, but so did the Dreamcast.

And the Dreamcast failed because of VERY-easily copied games which led to bankrupting sales. Not the 'cast's fault at all.



And Mirren's on point.

Virtual Boy, Jaguar, CD-I, Sega CD, Nintendo 64 DD, N-Gage, Dreamcast.

these are failures.

Gamecube has managed to last all the way to the beginnings of the next-gen. Dreamcast didn't last at all once the PS2 came out and died by the time Gamecube and Xbox were on the scene. It can't be a failure.

[Orga777]

I think Orga has the fan(boy) view of failure.

Not the actual meaning for a product being a failure. For a product to be a failure it must either: 1) fail to meet some preset goal or 2) be an economic failure.

Not "It was 3rd! It is a failure blahblahblah etc."

I failed Nintendo's preset goals. They never had a system in their history that sold as bad as the GameCube did. Perhaps it wasn't a complete failure, but it failed in the sense of all the high hopes the fans AND Nintendo had when it was released. Is that better?:p

[PyrasTerran]

It's not a matter of 'better', it's a matter of accuracy.

They never had a system in their history that sold as bad as the GameCube did.

Proof positive you do not really know what you're talking about.

The Virtual Boy was their abysmal failure. The Gamecube is far from it.

but it failed in the sense of all the high hopes the fans AND Nintendo had when it was released.

This may seem odd to you, but not all the fans hated the Gamecube. Infact, only a few. And yes, they would have had to, to consider it the calibur of failure you're trying to pin it as.

[MirrenDono]

It's true, a lot of people did enjoy the Gamecube. It had a slim library of games, but it had a ton of awesome titles, especially for those that were big fans of Nintendo's franchises. And if you were an enthusiastic Resident Evil fan, GC was a must for you.

Even when you look at critic's opinions of it, rarely is it perceived as 'bad'. It was very durable, it could manage awesome graphics, it was quite strong in terms of running power, and it still had a fair amount of innovative and fun games. The lack of third party support and extra features like online play, music storage etc. was what hurt it.

Generally, they'll say it was 'good', nothing more, nothing less.

[Orga777]

Proof positive you do not really know what you're talking about.
The Virtual Boy was their abysmal failure. The Gamecube is far from it.

Eh. meant in general for consols. Should have clarified.

This may seem odd to you, but not all the fans hated the Gamecube. Infact, only a few. And yes, they would have had to, to consider it the calibur of failure you're trying to pin it as.

Of course Nintendo fans didn't hate it. It was from Nintendo. But for what Nintendo themselves were aiming for with the system turned out to be WAY short of expectations.

[PyrasTerran]

Eh. meant in general for consols. Should have clarified.

Exactly.

Virtual Boy is a failure in general for consoles.

Of course Nintendo fans didn't hate it. It was from Nintendo. But for what Nintendo themselves were aiming for with the system turned out to be WAY short of expectations.

So first you say the fans and Nintendo were sorely disappointed, but now it's just Nintendo?

Nintendo certainly won't seem to admit it to the press, so how do you know this?




I think Mirren defended the point well.

[Orga777]

Exactly.

Virtual Boy is a failure in general for consoles.

Heh. Ok, after doing a bit of research on it, yea you are right... Never heard of it before that is why.

So first you say the fans and Nintendo were sorely disappointed, but now it's just Nintendo?

It is both really. I thought you meant the hardcore fans. Of course they didn't hate it. But the general fan definitly didn't like it or it would have been bought more than it was.

Nintendo certainly won't seem to admit it to the press, so how do you know this?

Well duh they aren't going to come out and say it. But the way things were handled late in the game compared to early on it didn't even seem Nintendo tried as hard at all with the quality of the games. Nintendo did want the GC to do a lot better then it really did, that is why they went innovative with the Wii in hopes that it will restore the name that they lost with teh GameCube.

[Gorjirus]

Well duh they aren't going to come out and say it. But the way things were handled late in the game compared to early on it didn't even seem Nintendo tried as hard at all with the quality of the games. Nintendo did want the GC to do a lot better then it really did, that is why they went innovative with the Wii in hopes that it will restore the name that they lost with teh GameCube.


That doesn't make it a failure.

Everyone always want there consoles to do better. And what name did Nintendo lose?

[PyrasTerran]

Heh. Ok, after doing a bit of research on it, yea you are right... Never heard of it before that is why.

THAT is how you know something is a failure. When yuo never even heard of it.

The Gamecube lasted 5 years, and made it all the way to the dawn of the next-gen.

Dreamcast lasted how long?

Simply put: Gamecube was not a failure. Just because it didn't do as well as the others does not mean it did not make money.

Well duh they aren't going to come out and say it.

No, it's not a 'well duh'. Companies in all spans of the business world are willing to admit failures, just like Nintendo with the Virtual Boy. So why didn't they say anything this time?

Because it was not a failure.







The problem with people's mentalities on videogame consoles is that they emphasize on competition. Who ever is on top is the winner and whoever is on the bottom is the loser. This way of thinking is immature to say the least, and to put Nintendo in the same grouping with Sony and Microsoft is, ultimately, moot.

Nintendo is not trying to make a competing system, it never had, not since ye olden days. For along time Nintendo was not deemed the herald of new software/hardware to entice the masses. They were late in the game with CD's, they were late in the game with online, they're still late in the game with DVD playback. And even now their system is still not the most advanced piece of equipment around, not compared to the 360 and PS3.

This is not to say that Nintendo isn't looking for profit, because it is, every company is. But Nintendo's way of thinking is simply so different from Microsoft and Sony that they seem almost oblivious to the fact that Sony and Microsoft fanboys laugh at them constantly. To Nintendo, profit comes from a different path that has nothing to do with having the best software on the market.

And if Nintendo was wrong in its philosophy, then it would have been killed in the competition long ago.

Nintendo was not kept afloat by the gameboy during the GCN days, because the GCN has fantastic games. It was the first to come out with both Resident Evil 4 and Viewtiful Joe, it is the only place to find Resident Evil and RE0, Soul Calibur 2 w/Link(which sold better than any other SC2 version, I wonder how could that happen if you claim few people had/liked GCN's Orga...) Then let's not forget Smash Bros., Metroid Prime, and Zelda, which while a visual disappointment compared to usual Zelda games, was still a fantastic and memorable achievement in terms of story and gameplay.

The GCN kept itself afloat, and it did that without the use of online, DVD, or even massive third party support.

What does that tell you about the system and games? I'd say it's the complete opposite of a failure, given the circumstances it was in and the competitive race of PS2 and Xbox.


Now...


this isn't to say that the gamecube couldn't have been better, because it could have been loads better. It could have had better online support, it could have used regular-sized discs rather than those tiny ones, allow DVD playback, and be nicer to third-party companies. It probably would have been a bigger success if it did what the PS2 and Xbox did.

But Nintendo wanted to be different, and the Gamecube's lifespan was not a failure, but rather, a lesson.

A lesson that if they want to be truely unique, they need to think further outside the box and shun themselves from all other temptations of 'competition'.

Lo and behold, we are presented with the DS, a success, and the Wii, so far a success, two systems that, compared to 'competitors' like the PSP and PS3 are very inferior in quality, and rely on unique almost gimmicky control setups that had players playing games in ways they never have before in the mainstream market. Only in the DS could a great game like Trauma Center be possible, and the possibilities with Wii are endless and new, under the right developers.

Wii is so radical, it even got Sony thinking, and halfway through PS3's development a rumble feature was replaced for the Sixaxis motion sensing(which, Saruman, doesn't drop the price of a PS3 controller at all. ;) ). Wii inadvertently helped the PS3.

And now look at where we are; the Wii is the cheapest, it has the worst graphics and an oddball control system.

How on earth are they supposed to 'compete' against PS3 and 360?

That's just the thing: The Wii's goal isn't to compete and beat. it's to coexist.

Even if the Wii is on top by sales standards, the PS3 and the 360 can still go strong, and because of the Wii's price, a person can choose between Sony or Microsoft and have a little Nintendo on the side.

Not to mention Wii is really helping people who are not into gaming learn to break into it. So far, my mother, baby brother, and 4 more non-gamer friends, 2 of them female, play the family's Wii and enjoy it.

To get to my point: The console war is an illusion, a farce. At least it is in Nintendo's eyes.

[Saruman]

The reason I can't take these claims seriously is because:

The GC beat Xbox in many other regions, including Japan and Europe, and

This has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

the DS came out in the final death throes of the GC. It didn't factor into keeping Nintendo afloat, as if they really needed it.

Yes that's true, the majority of it was because of the GBA selling so well, but both the GBA and DS are part of the Hand-Held gaming area, which is the department that kept them afloat.

The fact of the matter is a helluvalotta kids and nintendo fans still had gamecubes, and to this day gamecubes are still being bought.

Again this is completely meaningless. The plain and simple fact is that if you remove the GBA and DS sales from the equation, Nintendo would have gone Bankrupt because they lost so much money on the GC. That tells you if a system is a failure or a success, not if some fanboy likes Nintendo so much that they will buy anything they put out. No matter how much you want to believe that the GC was a good thing matters little, it was a finiancial disaster for Nintendo.

[Saruman]

Wii is so radical, it even got Sony thinking, and halfway through PS3's development a rumble feature was replaced for the Sixaxis motion sensing(which, Saruman, doesn't drop the price of a PS3 controller at all. ;) ). Wii inadvertently helped the PS3.

You really should read what I said in regard to the question that was posed before commenting on it. I never said it would drop the price of the controller, I said that losing the rumble feature would reduce the price of the controller. Which guess what it does because it's a component that you are not paying for. That doesn't mean the new controllers will be less expensive then the current ones, just that you aren't paying for a feature that the old controllers had. But the new controllers will also not be as expensive as they would be if they had both the rumble feature and the Sixaxis motion sensing.

And now look at where we are; the Wii is the cheapest, it has the worst graphics and an oddball control system.

True.

How on earth are they supposed to 'compete' against PS3 and 360?

That's just the thing: The Wii's goal isn't to compete and beat. it's to coexist.

The only thing I find funny about this and I do agree with it to an extent, is that you use this argument but yet ignore the same thing for the PS3. Sony isn't making the PS3 to be just a gaming system, they are trying to make it a complete "entertainment system." Yet most people simply ignore this fact and claim just the opposite when trying to degrade the system.

To get to my point: The console war is an illusion, a farce. At least it is in Nintendo's eyes.

And yet Sony was the first to say that there next system (the PS3) was not going to be just a gaming system as I noted above, and that it was not trying to compete with either MS or Nintendo as a gaming system. Yet you and others ignore this but turn around and use the same argument in favor of Nintendo. I don't know about you but where I come from thats what you call a double standard. If your going to take Nintendo's word for it then you have to take Sony's word for it just the same.

Why do you think they pushed to have Blu-Ray as part of the PS3? It's moving towards their goal of making one complete system for all your entertainment purposes at an affordable price. If you really think about it they have done what they set out to do. Many people think the system is to expensive at $600, but when you look at the price of just a Blu-Ray player alone which sells for $1000 what do you think someone is going to purchase? If you play games or not, your still saving $400 by buying a PS3 instead of a stand alone Blu-Ray player this is what people are not looking at or understanding.

Many people today want home theaters in their houses and like to keep them updated with modern technology. If someone wants to upgrade to either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, why would you spend $1000 on a stand alone player when you can cut off 40% of that price by buying a 360 or PS3. Then you don't just have the option of only playing movies, but also games, getting online, playing music, and more. What ever format you decide to go with it simply makes more sense to by a 360 or a PS3 then just the player alone.

[Wiz]

I hope you are kidding. First of all this board is FULL of Nintendo fans compared to Play Station or X-Box fans. That is like saying which is better PS3 or Wii on a PS3 board. The answer would most certainly favor the PS3 now wouldn't it? So your philosophy here is flawed.
Not necessarily. Why? B/c this is not a nintendo board. As such, it should not be compared to a ps3 or 360 board. This is a kaiju website. A site completely independant from gaming websites, though we do have random topics about games. I think it is safe to say that the Kaijuphile website as a whole does not take a particular stand as to which game enterprise they prefer. The members of this website joined based on a fandom of Kaiju, not Games. And the members are completely random as far as which game enterprise they like. They did not join this site because they thought it was going to be a haven for Nintendo fans. Taking a poll on this site would have the same random outcome as if you were to take a poll from the general public.

[PyrasTerran]

This has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

How does it not? It's proof positive that the Gamecube wasn't such a financial failure like Orga(and apparently you) state.

Again this is completely meaningless. The plain and simple fact is that if you remove the GBA and DS sales from the equation, Nintendo would have gone Bankrupt because they lost so much money on the GC. That tells you if a system is a failure or a success, not if some fanboy likes Nintendo so much that they will buy anything they put out. No matter how much you want to believe that the GC was a good thing matters little, it was a finiancial disaster for Nintendo.

If it was a financial failure it would have fallen through the roof long ago.

Nintendo still has the Gameboy and SNES to keep themselves afloat during the Virtual Boy era, and the Virtual Boy was a definite failure.

So tell me how the Gamecube could survive for so long if it was such a failure? Why wasn't Nintendo working to remove the Gamecube for a next-gen console asap? Why are gamecube titles still coming out?

You didn't seem to have anything to say about the GCN-exclusive titles which were the backbone of the GCN. You're also forgetting an army of small children to got their gaming fix from the GCN for games from the Pokemon franchise.

Plus, if the gamecube was such a financial wreck it would have set Nintendo on a different path in the next gen. Instead, the gamecube proved to Nintendo that their games were great, but needed a different approach to their console. If it was the financial wreck you claim it is, they would have dropped the philosophical baloney and made a power-system like the PS3 or 360.

I'm afraid I can't take your argument seriously unless you start showing some numbers and reports.

The only thing I find funny about this and I do agree with it to an extent, is that you use this argument but yet ignore the same thing for the PS3. Sony isn't making the PS3 to be just a gaming system, they are trying to make it a complete "entertainment system." Yet most people simply ignore this fact and claim just the opposite when trying to degrade the system.

That's because the PS2 was the exact same pitch, Saruman, Sony tried to make us believe it was the complete 'entertainment system' of its time, but in the end, it was in the same videogame rut as the rest.

Adding more periphs to a gaming console doesn't stop it from being a gaming console, and you're fooling yourself if you actually buy Sony's crock of the PS3 being anything but a very high-end gaming system.

Of course, one can confuse it for something else. After all, a majority of the sales that the PS2 got in its first run was from its DVD component, in a time when DVD was still very expensive.

And yet Sony was the first to say that there next system (the PS3) was not going to be just a gaming system as I noted above, and that it was not trying to compete with either MS or Nintendo as a gaming system. Yet you and others ignore this but turn around and use the same argument in favor of Nintendo. I don't know about you but where I come from thats what you call a double standard. If your going to take Nintendo's word for it then you have to take Sony's word for it just the same.

You can't, Saruman, because Sony's actions contradict their claim.

If they weren't competing they would have made everything in the PS3 a step up from the Xbox 360, because except for the online system, that's precisely what it is.

You can't shrug this off as them not trying to compete because if that was the case they wouldn't have chugged so much money in making it the most powerful gaming system of the three. It's simply baloney.

Why do you think they pushed to have Blu-Ray as part of the PS3? It's moving towards their goal of making one complete system for all your entertainment purposes at an affordable price. If you really think about it they have done what they set out to do. Many people think the system is to expensive at $600, but when you look at the price of just a Blu-Ray player alone which sells for $1000 what do you think someone is going to purchase? If you play games or not, your still saving $400 by buying a PS3 instead of a stand alone Blu-Ray player this is what people are not looking at or understanding.

No no, Saru, that's not the case.

I'm sure at least some people here including me understand exactly what you just said. It makes perfect sense. They did the same thing with the PS2 and DVD's.

The problem is this:

The DVD was a monumental leap from VHS. Blu-Ray, sorry to say, doesn't have the same radical change in the way we view entertainment opposed to DVD. What's the difference, really? Better visual output, more memory to store more things like special features, etc.

But the fact of the matter is, even to this day, the majority of people never touch the special features selection in their DVD's, and while a lack of special features is an atrocity for any movie buff, for the average American it's just extra fluff. So what's the point of having all that extra space if the consumers are just gonna watch the movie and nothing else? What's the point of chugging more hundreds of dollars for a Blu-Ray player that does the same as you DVD player, only prettier? The visual leap from Blu-Ray and DVD isn't as huge as DVD and VHS, and it's all too possible for Blu-Ray to simply become a luxury more than a necesity.

And eventually, just like with the PS2, Blu-Ray players are gonna end up being cheaper than PS3's, that is, if it gets off the ground well enough.

Many people today want home theaters in their houses and like to keep them updated with modern technology. If someone wants to upgrade to either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, why would you spend $1000 on a stand alone player when you can cut off 40% of that price by buying a 360 or PS3. Then you don't just have the option of only playing movies, but also games, getting online, playing music, and more. What ever format you decide to go with it simply makes more sense to by a 360 or a PS3 then just the player alone.


.........How does this disprove anything??

I agree with that paragraph, because it makes perfect sense. Get a 2-in-1, it's simple logic and it's been a staple for gaming mostly.

Are you trying to say that because people want blu-ray they're gonna get a PS3? What about a portion of those people who end up buying a PS3 only for the Blu-Ray capabilities, just like folks who bought a PS2 only for its DVD capabilities? Buying the console isn't giving money back to Sony, it's the peripherals, controllers, games, etc.

Also, when did the great majority of Americans become moneytrees in the first place? If they're not going to pay so much for a blu-ray, they sure as hell won't be extremely inclined to the PS3. If anything, it's the Xbox, an admited gaming system not trying to BS by saying it's a complete entertainment system, that is going to get the sale rather than the PS3.

And yet... how does any of this affect Wii's position?

[Gorjirus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXm5n2n_U3c&mode=related&search=

*slaps forehead*

Of course! NOW I see why Orga wanted a PS3 so badly.



:p

[Saruman]

How does it not? It's proof positive that the Gamecube wasn't such a financial failure like Orga(and apparently you) state.

Just because the system sold better in some places doesn't make it a success, especially when the company lost so much money on it. That you can't seem to comprehend that is amazing.

If it was a financial failure it would have fallen through the roof long ago.

Again your wrong. Just because it was a finiancial failure does not mean Nintendo was going to completely give up on it, especially if they wanted to compete in the next wave of gaming systems. When their profits from the GBA & DS were more then enough to cover their losses on the GC they had no reason to scrap the system.

Nintendo still has the Gameboy and SNES to keep themselves afloat during the Virtual Boy era, and the Virtual Boy was a definite failure.

Big difference, the Virtual Boy didn't sell even remotely well. It was also just a horrible system in design and effect which even Nintendo realized.

So tell me how the Gamecube could survive for so long if it was such a failure? Why wasn't Nintendo working to remove the Gamecube for a next-gen console asap? Why are gamecube titles still coming out?

I already pointed that out above, it would have cost them to much in the next wave. If they didn't continue to support it then the chances of their next system selling well would have been seriously hurt. How many people are going to purchase a system from a company that didn't even support it's previous system very well, just look at SEGA to see what happens when companies do that.

You didn't seem to have anything to say about the GCN-exclusive titles which were the backbone of the GCN. You're also forgetting an army of small children to got their gaming fix from the GCN for games from the Pokemon franchise.

Exclusive titles are the backbone to ALL systems, it's not something exclusive to Nintendo. But you are right about one thing, if not for those titles the GC would almost certainly have been scrapped because those were pretty much the only titles that sold well.

Plus, if the gamecube was such a financial wreck it would have set Nintendo on a different path in the next gen. Instead, the gamecube proved to Nintendo that their games were great, but needed a different approach to their console. If it was the financial wreck you claim it is, they would have dropped the philosophical baloney and made a power-system like the PS3 or 360.

Wow, maybe you don't see it or just can't tell how much of a complete change the Wii is from the GC. The system is a complete revamp of everything they were doing with the GC. New Innovative controller, major online support, the use of normal sized disc's, it's well more powerful than the GC in every way possible though still not up to the power level that the 360 and PS3 are at, support of older games even access to download games from their cartridge systems, yeah thats not trying to improve to compete at all.:sarcasm:

I'm afraid I can't take your argument seriously unless you start showing some numbers and reports.

You can believe what you want, it makes no difference to me. You want to see Nintendos Quarterly/Annual Reports just look online you can find them easily enough.

That's because the PS2 was the exact same pitch, Saruman, Sony tried to make us believe it was the complete 'entertainment system' of its time, but in the end, it was in the same videogame rut as the rest.

Sorry but no, the PS2 was not marketed as a "complete" entertainment system. I have had my PS2 since the day it came out and it was never trying to accomplish that.

Adding more periphs to a gaming console doesn't stop it from being a gaming console, and you're fooling yourself if you actually buy Sony's crock of the PS3 being anything but a very high-end gaming system.

Gee, I guess the system can ONLY play games then.:sarcasm: All those reports of it being able to play DVD's, Blu-Ray disc's, CD's, go online, hook up to the PSP and use it's software are all mistaken then.

Of course, one can confuse it for something else. After all, a majority of the sales that the PS2 got in its first run was from its DVD component, in a time when DVD was still very expensive.

Sorry but I don't think so, I don't know anyone who bought a PS2 for the DVD player. Everyone I know already had a DVD player for a very long time before the PS2 even came out. People bought the PS2 because it was the next gen gaming system.

You can't, Saruman, because Sony's actions contradict their claim.

What actions contradict their claim, please tell us all?

If they weren't competing they would have made everything in the PS3 a step up from the Xbox 360, because except for the online system, that's precisely what it is.

Wow, thought they did already.

360 built in HD-DVD? NOPE. PS3 Built in Blu-Ray? YES
360 New Controller? NOPE PS3 New Controller? YES
360 more powerful than PS3? NOPE

Could keep going but I think you get the point.

You can't shrug this off as them not trying to compete because if that was the case they wouldn't have chugged so much money in making it the most powerful gaming system of the three. It's simply baloney.

Please quote me as to where I said they weren't trying to compete.

PS3 is competing, but it's also trying to be more than just a game system alone.

That you believe Nintendo isn't trying to compete because they say so IMO makes you ignorant and hypocritical to the situation. Nintendo IS competing with the 360 and PS3, if they weren't they wouldn't have taken many of the features that are making the XB/360 and PS2/PS3 successful and put them into their new system.

No no, Saru, that's not the case.

Sure it is, I know many people that want to get a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player but won't purchase one until they can get the 360 with the HD-DVD player or the PS3. It's the reason I am waiting to get a PS3 instead of buying just a Blu-Ray player.

I'm sure at least some people here including me understand exactly what you just said. It makes perfect sense. They did the same thing with the PS2 and DVD's.

DVD was an already established format and the players were cheaper than the gaming systems. It's the exact opposite here so trying to say they did the same thing with the PS2 & DVD compatibality isn't accurate. The 360 and PS3 are going to be the major reasons why one or both of these formats take off, it's a completely different situation.

The DVD was a monumental leap from VHS. Blu-Ray, sorry to say, doesn't have the same radical change in the way we view entertainment opposed to DVD. What's the difference, really? Better visual output, more memory to store more things like special features, etc.

Your wrong, Blu-Ray is a big leap from DVD. DVD's are already at their limit, most movies now are already split onto two tracks on a DVD, which is why we usually get that momentary pause in the middle of a movie, it's changing tracks. Blu-Ray won't have that problem nor should HD-DVD. It's going to make it easier for companies to put out things like complete seasons of shows, why put something on 6 DVD when you can put it on one Blu-Ray disc. It's going to allow for more language tracks which means they don't have to produce different DVD's in different languages to sell in different countries, you can put them all on one Blu-Ray disc. In the long run it's going to be better for everyone because it will make things cheaper. Companies will reduce costs for things like box sets because they may be able to put them all on one disc which will in turn make things cheaper for the consumer.

But the fact of the matter is, even to this day, the majority of people never touch the special features selection in their DVD's, and while a lack of special features is an atrocity for any movie buff, for the average American it's just extra fluff. So what's the point of having all that extra space if the consumers are just gonna watch the movie and nothing else? What's the point of chugging more hundreds of dollars for a Blu-Ray player that does the same as you DVD player, only prettier? The visual leap from Blu-Ray and DVD isn't as huge as DVD and VHS, and it's all too possible for Blu-Ray to simply become a luxury more than a necesity.

Notice that your talking about "Special features." I never once mentioned special features above, just things that will make things accessible to more people and ways to reduce cost for both consumer and maker. Your focusing so much on things like deleted scenes, director/actor commentaries and the like it's making you miss other aspects which are more important.

And eventually, just like with the PS2, Blu-Ray players are gonna end up being cheaper than PS3's, that is, if it gets off the ground well enough.

True, but maybe other companies will stop making them because regular stand alone player aren't selling because people are buying the PS3 or 360 for HD-DVD. Also don't forget as it gets cheaper to make the player it's also going to get cheaper to produce the PS3 or 360 as well.

.........How does this disprove anything??

I agree with that paragraph, because it makes perfect sense. Get a 2-in-1, it's simple logic and it's been a staple for gaming mostly.

Are you trying to say that because people want blu-ray they're gonna get a PS3? What about a portion of those people who end up buying a PS3 only for the Blu-Ray capabilities, just like folks who bought a PS2 only for its DVD capabilities? Buying the console isn't giving money back to Sony, it's the peripherals, controllers, games, etc.

Also, when did the great majority of Americans become moneytrees in the first place? If they're not going to pay so much for a blu-ray, they sure as hell won't be extremely inclined to the PS3. If anything, it's the Xbox, an admited gaming system not trying to BS by saying it's a complete entertainment system, that is going to get the sale rather than the PS3.

Well because your failing to again realize what is going on. Anyone that wants to get either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player is going to realize that it's cheaper to buy the PS3 or 360, you save 40% by doing so now. Even if these people are only buying it for the player itself it does many things for both Sony and Microsoft. It exposes more people to gaming and since people are very curious, the chances are that they will eventually buy a few games to see what all the buzz is about. In Sony's case though, even if they only buy it for the player and don't buy any games, guess what they still need to buy movies for it and Sony is one of the larger companies that owns the rights to a great number of movies, which means they will be making money from it.

And if you think Microsoft is just touting the 360 as a simple "gaming" machine, then I have the Brooklyn Bridge up for sale and you look like a great person to buy it. The 360 was going to be their major part to get HD-DVD to take hold, well until they couldn't get the HD-DVD player ready in time for the system launch. So no, they never were only claiming it to be only a "gaming" system. They had the Same intent as Sony did the entire time.

And yet... how does any of this affect Wii's position?

Right now, probably not a lot. But in the future, it's probably going to hurt Nintendo a great deal. When you can buy one component that will do everything you could want it to do, people are going to buy that. That is something that Nintendo can't compete with because they are not set up for that like Sony and Microsoft are.

[Seer235]

Saruman:

Does the PS3 come with a remote control? Or does it have a compatible remote for sale? If not, that might hurt the whole "it's not just a gaming system" thing, cause controlling a movie with the game controller probably isn't too appealing to a lot of people.

[Shin lvl2 Goji]

^ My mom feels that way with playing dvd's on the PS2. (since all we have in the family room is a VCR) She doesn't know how to work it so she doesn't even bother.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Saruman
You can believe what you want, it makes no difference to me. You want to see Nintendos Quarterly/Annual Reports just look online you can find them easily enough.

Allow me

http://thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1164942549&archive=&start_from=&ucat=7&

Now, remember that the Gamecube has been at $99 for not too long. Before then, when it actually selling well, it was at anywhere from $120-$200 dollar, the latter price being the one when it was selling the most units. Nintendo has stated that they were still making a profit on the $99 GC, so it's safe to say that this was a cheap console to produce. This means that they were making a significant amount of money on each sale when it was much more expensive, back it was selling several million.

Then those software stats show some good, because the majority of Gamecube's most popular games were all first party or second party, which means that Nintendo wouldn't have to split the profit as much as third party sales would, while they wouldn't have to spend much money in getting them into the market (since many were developed by second party companies and Nintendo only published them).

Is it completely illogical that Nintendo lost money off Gamecube? No, but you're overblowing the situation quite a lot.

[Seer235]

Just checked the Nintendo Annual Reports online, here's Net Income data from 2001 to 2006 (in millions of Yen, year ends in March 31st)

2001: 96,603
2002: 106,445
2003: 67,267
2004: 33,194
2005: 87,416
2006: 98,378

So Nintendo had a significant dip in 2003-04, but it seems the DS brought it right back out of it.

The Gamcube came out late 2001, so right after that there was an increase (at 2002), but then went down very rapidly in 03 and 04. So yeah, I gotta say Saruman's right about that. They hit a big slump in the few years after the Gamecube came out.

[Gorjirus]

^That's not bankrupt though.

[Seer235]

No, but it is also factoring in GBA sales.

[godofPH]

^ Question: Why does any of this crap about Nintendo's financial earnings mean anything?

[Seer235]

It's addressing a side point about Gamcube's financial impact on Nintendo.

[PyrasTerran]

Just because the system sold better in some places doesn't make it a success, especially when the company lost so much money on it. That you can't seem to comprehend that is amazing.

After Mirren's link, I don't need to fold to this, really.

Wow, maybe you don't see it or just can't tell how much of a complete change the Wii is from the GC. The system is a complete revamp of everything they were doing with the GC. New Innovative controller, major online support, the use of normal sized disc's, it's well more powerful than the GC in every way possible though still not up to the power level that the 360 and PS3 are at, support of older games even access to download games from their cartridge systems, yeah thats not trying to improve to compete at all.

No, in the long run, it really isn't. Not with the ammount of things the 360 and PS3 can both do.

Gee, I guess the system can ONLY play games then. All those reports of it being able to play DVD's, Blu-Ray disc's, CD's, go online, hook up to the PSP and use it's software are all mistaken then.


I repeat: Adding more periphs to a gaming console doesn't stop it from being a gaming console.

Sorry but I don't think so, I don't know anyone who bought a PS2 for the DVD player. Everyone I know already had a DVD player for a very long time before the PS2 even came out. People bought the PS2 because it was the next gen gaming system.

Well I don't know where you come from, but here in Miami DVD's weren't exactly in every household down the street like it was an easy comodity and the PS2, at the time cheaper than a DVD player, was made due for alot of people.

Is it cultural differences? financial differences? Whatever it is, it wasn't just a Miami-exclusive deal, as it was game articles regarding the PS2 and PS3 that I read, where I got this idea you're so 'sorry' about.

Wow, thought they did already.

360 built in HD-DVD? NOPE. PS3 Built in Blu-Ray? YES
360 New Controller? NOPE PS3 New Controller? YES
360 more powerful than PS3? NOPE

Could keep going but I think you get the point.

the typo of 'would' should've been 'wouldn't'.

What you wrote only proves that they were trying to step up from the 360.

Please quote me as to where I said they weren't trying to compete.

PS3 is competing, but it's also trying to be more than just a game system alone.


And yet Sony was the first to say that there next system (the PS3) was not going to be just a gaming system as I noted above, and that it was not trying to compete with either MS or Nintendo as a gaming system. Yet you and others ignore this but turn around and use the same argument in favor of Nintendo. I don't know about you but where I come from thats what you call a double standard. If your going to take Nintendo's word for it then you have to take Sony's word for it just the same. ~You.

That you believe Nintendo isn't trying to compete because they say so IMO makes you ignorant and hypocritical to the situation. Nintendo IS competing with the 360 and PS3, if they weren't they wouldn't have taken many of the features that are making the XB/360 and PS2/PS3 successful and put them into their new system.

1) I'm not the only one heralding what the company is claiming, Saru, and unlike Sony, Nintendo is actually showing they aren't competing with what the Wii is.

2) How many features is that? Online, and that's about it? Everything the Wii has is a step up from the Gamecube based on what people looked for in a system, NOT a call-out to the other two systems, or they would have gone the extra mile, ditched the new gameplay and made a clone of the 360/PS3.

DVD was an already established format and the players were cheaper than the gaming systems. It's the exact opposite here so trying to say they did the same thing with the PS2 & DVD compatibality isn't accurate.

Again, I don't know what part of the states you seem to hail from because DVD's were a rich man's luxury around here, and more expensive than even the PS2. I STILL remember our first DVD player at 300 dollars, a very basic one at that.

Your wrong, Blu-Ray is a big leap from DVD. DVD's are already at their limit, most movies now are already split onto two tracks on a DVD, which is why we usually get that momentary pause in the middle of a movie, it's changing tracks. Blu-Ray won't have that problem nor should HD-DVD. It's going to make it easier for companies to put out things like complete seasons of shows, why put something on 6 DVD when you can put it on one Blu-Ray disc. It's going to allow for more language tracks which means they don't have to produce different DVD's in different languages to sell in different countries, you can put them all on one Blu-Ray disc. In the long run it's going to be better for everyone because it will make things cheaper. Companies will reduce costs for things like box sets because they may be able to put them all on one disc which will in turn make things cheaper for the consumer.

Huh. sounds like the pitch for the betamax...

Notice that your talking about "Special features." I never once mentioned special features above, just things that will make things accessible to more people and ways to reduce cost for both consumer and maker. Your focusing so much on things like deleted scenes, director/actor commentaries and the like it's making you miss other aspects which are more important.


I saw it.

Well because your failing to again realize what is going on. Anyone that wants to get either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player is going to realize that it's cheaper to buy the PS3 or 360, you save 40% by doing so now.

Yes yes, we've past this.

Again, the PS2 had the same luck. Even if they didn't intend it.

Even if these people are only buying it for the player itself it does many things for both Sony and Microsoft. It exposes more people to gaming and since people are very curious, the chances are that they will eventually buy a few games to see what all the buzz is about.

This is where I doubt it, with just about every gaming console. A person who doesn't play games won't suddenly get curious about it. And with the PS3 and the 360 making games that are more and more complicated and more geared to the hardcore gamer, I doubt they're gonna appeal to the normal masses. They didn't in the last generation.

True, but maybe other companies will stop making them because regular stand alone player aren't selling because people are buying the PS3 or 360 for HD-DVD. Also don't forget as it gets cheaper to make the player it's also going to get cheaper to produce the PS3 or 360 as well.

That may be set in stone for the 360, but the PS3(And Wii, I'll be fair) has yet to prove it'll keep it up in the long run. Even a good idea can end up failing, but let's hope not.

Right now, probably not a lot. But in the future, it's probably going to hurt Nintendo a great deal. When you can buy one component that will do everything you could want it to do, people are going to buy that. That is something that Nintendo can't compete with because they are not set up for that like Sony and Microsoft are.

Proof positive they're not competing in the first place, Saruman. You answered why I and others believe Wii is going down a different path.

And the Wii DOESN'T have to compete with the capabilities Sony and Microsoft can do. The DS can't even do have the things the PSP can do but it's still a popular syetm, not only for regular gamers but for new ones as well. It's far less intimidating. I've seen preppy cheerleaders who can't make two cents of a game controller wielding their DS's with their Nintendogs, and my mom is an avid fan of Trauma Center and Brain Age.

And it is that untouched, goldmine market the Wii is far more capable of catching than the PS3 and the 360.

[Saruman]

After Mirren's link, I don't need to fold to this, really.

Well considering his link proved my point, take it for what you want.

No, in the long run, it really isn't. Not with the ammount of things the 360 and PS3 can both do.

Ok, you don't call Nintendo doing a complete about face and doing things they have ALWAYS claimed as not important like Online and backwards compatibality changing to compete, then you are seriously blind to what is going on.

I repeat: Adding more periphs to a gaming console doesn't stop it from being a gaming console.

No it doesn't, which is part of it being an all encompasing entertainment center. Just because it can do one thing like play games, does not mean thats all it can be used for, it's INTENDED to be used for MUCH more than just playing games. Which is the concept you seem not to be able to grasp.

Well I don't know where you come from, but here in Miami DVD's weren't exactly in every household down the street like it was an easy comodity and the PS2, at the time cheaper than a DVD player, was made due for alot of people.

Is it cultural differences? financial differences? Whatever it is, it wasn't just a Miami-exclusive deal, as it was game articles regarding the PS2 and PS3 that I read, where I got this idea you're so 'sorry' about.

I don't know what DVD player you were buying, but I had and still have two that I got before my PS2 and they were well less than your $300 basic player, and mine were both 5 disc DVD players as well.

the typo of 'would' should've been 'wouldn't'.

Ah, ok.

What you wrote only proves that they were trying to step up from the 360.

They are competing with the 360, but it's not simply about gaming, it's more about the new format than anything else because that's what is going to really decide things when it comes down to it.

And yet Sony was the first to say that there next system (the PS3) was not going to be just a gaming system as I noted above, and that it was not trying to compete with either MS or Nintendo as a gaming system. Yet you and others ignore this but turn around and use the same argument in favor of Nintendo. I don't know about you but where I come from thats what you call a double standard. If your going to take Nintendo's word for it then you have to take Sony's word for it just the same. ~You.

Notice, that I said that is what SONY said, that is not my opinion. That comment was in regards to you taking Nintendo's word for something but yet ignoring what other companies say. It was showing your biased and one sided view of things.

1) I'm not the only one heralding what the company is claiming, Saru, and unlike Sony, Nintendo is actually showing they aren't competing with what the Wii is.

If they weren't trying to compete then why would they go and use features that the other two systems are touting? Nintendo has always claime online was a waste but yet now it's a major feature. Nintendo never cared about backwards compatibality before, but not it's one of the Wii's most noted aspects. Yep they sure aren't trying to compete.:sarcasm:

2) How many features is that? Online, and that's about it? Everything the Wii has is a step up from the Gamecube based on what people looked for in a system, NOT a call-out to the other two systems, or they would have gone the extra mile, ditched the new gameplay and made a clone of the 360/PS3.

Once again your wrong and Nintendo's history tells you this. They are always trying to compete but be different as possible, this is nothing new for them in terms of how they go about things. They did it with the N64, they did it with the GC and now they are doing it again with the Wii, and each time they said they weren't trying to compete but to be different and appeal to a different audience.

Again, I don't know what part of the states you seem to hail from because DVD's were a rich man's luxury around here, and more expensive than even the PS2. I STILL remember our first DVD player at 300 dollars, a very basic one at that.

I already answered this above.

Huh. sounds like the pitch for the betamax...

Maybe so, but you also didn't try to counter what I said either, your silence speaks volumes.

I saw it.

Sure doesn't sound like it since you never once mentioned any of it.

Yes yes, we've past this.

Again, the PS2 had the same luck. Even if they didn't intend it.

Not nearly as much as you seem to think.

This is where I doubt it, with just about every gaming console. A person who doesn't play games won't suddenly get curious about it. And with the PS3 and the 360 making games that are more and more complicated and more geared to the hardcore gamer, I doubt they're gonna appeal to the normal masses. They didn't in the last generation.

See now this is where I find your stance to be so totally absurd its almost laughable. Now when I point out tat people will buy these systems for the players and then buy games because they knowthey have that capability you say it won't happen. BUT, You claim that the Wii is going to get people that don't buy systems or play games into gaming because of its "unique" features. Any non gamer who buys a PS3 or 360(with player) stands a much greater chance of buying games then they would of going out and just buying a Wii.

That may be set in stone for the 360, but the PS3(And Wii, I'll be fair) has yet to prove it'll keep it up in the long run. Even a good idea can end up failing, but let's hope not.

That's true of anything, just ask Sega.

Proof positive they're not competing in the first place, Saruman. You answered why I and others believe Wii is going down a different path.

Saddly the path they are gonna go down is the same path that Sega went down, it's not gonna happen soon, but it is gonna happen.

And the Wii DOESN'T have to compete with the capabilities Sony and Microsoft can do. The DS can't even do have the things the PSP can do but it's still a popular syetm, not only for regular gamers but for new ones as well. It's far less intimidating. I've seen preppy cheerleaders who can't make two cents of a game controller wielding their DS's with their Nintendogs, and my mom is an avid fan of Trauma Center and Brain Age.

And it is that untouched, goldmine market the Wii is far more capable of catching than the PS3 and the 360.

I'm not sure "mindless cheerleaders" is a good group to target, LOL.

But you actually think people are going to find it easier to use the Wiimote than to use the standard game controllers that have been around for many years now? Younger kids will pick it up quickly, but parents and older people I highly doubt are gonna find using it all that fantastic. I mean how are you gonna feel after swinging the Wiimote back and forth, up and down for an hour, probably pretty damn tired and your not gonna want to pick it up again for a while. though it will probably be great for doctors that do shoulder and elbow surgery, LOL.

I do love all those commercials where the Wii brings the whole family together, its very realistic, especially since most parents don't have time enough for their kids now, I'm certain a Wii will change all that.:laugh:

[Cole Deschain]

Uh... Jeff?

The "parents" you're talking about... that's my generation, presumably*. The ones drooling for it.

*People older than us can;t even work a basic game controller, for the most part. Sure,. there's the od exception, but MY parents certainly fit the bill.

[Goji Son]

^ Question: Why does any of this crap about Nintendo's financial earnings mean anything?

Nothing, but someone has to crap on Nintendo somehow.

[Seer235]

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6162742/index.html

A graphical comparison between the 360 and PS3. The writers say the 360 looks better overall, but it seems pretty much the same to me.

[Cookson]

Those screenshots look more like the contrast/video of the TV needed to be changed.

[MirrenDono]

^ You're right, there's virtually no difference between the detail and textures. The only thing I could notice is that there'd sometimes be a difference in the lighting or colors, which definitely don't seem to come from the game so much as the screen they're taking that image from.

It's really getting obnoxious with how Gamespot is so anti-Sony and anti-Nintendo.

[Saruman]

Uh... Jeff?

The "parents" you're talking about... that's my generation, presumably*. The ones drooling for it.

*People older than us can;t even work a basic game controller, for the most part. Sure,. there's the od exception, but MY parents certainly fit the bill.

I can work a game controller just fine thank you.:sly: :laugh:

The point was that it's typically parents that buy Nintendo systems for their kids where it's older teens to mid 30's people that will buy a PS2/PS3 or XB/XB360 for themselves.

Nintendo is after all still mostly associated with kids and family, where the other systems aren't.

[Saruman]

^ You're right, there's virtually no difference between the detail and textures. The only thing I could notice is that there'd sometimes be a difference in the lighting or colors, which definitely don't seem to come from the game so much as the screen they're taking that image from.

It's really getting obnoxious with how Gamespot is so anti-Sony and anti-Nintendo.

Unfortunately from work I can't access those pictures. But from what I have seen in person, the PS3 and 360 graphics are very close right now. The thing you have to remember though is that the 360 has been out for a year so game developers have had time to get used to it. If you compare the games that launched on the 360 to the PS3 launch titles, the PS3 games are much better looking. The PS3 games are only going to get better looking as well, usually the biggest leap graphically is in the first year of a system, so wait and compare them in a year, the PS3 should look much better than the 360 graphically at that time.

You also can't really go by what you see online or in a magazine, you have to see the systems in person running on the same TV to accurately compare the graphics.

[Saruman]

By YURI KAGEYAMA - AP Business Writer

TOKYO(AP) Nintendo's president acknowledged Thursday the just-launched Wii video-game machine may have a problem with a strap that secures its trademark wandlike remote-controller to the player's wrist.

President Satoru Iwata also said Nintendo may raise its sales target for the Wii, which is selling out at retailers since it went on sale in recent weeks in the U.S. and Japan.

The console from the maker of the Pokemon and Super Mario games is locked in a fierce three-way battle with Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 and Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360.

"We are investigating," Iwata said of reports about the Wii's strap coming off as players swung around the controller, at times causing the remote to fly out of their hands.

Players use the Wii remote like a tennis racket, sword and other devices to play games.

"Some people are getting a lot more excited than we'd expected," Iwata said. "We need to better communicate to people how to deal with Wii as a new form of entertainment."

The company has not decided on any specific measures to change the strap, Nintendo spokesman Yasuhiro Minagawa said.

Iwata said he first wants to see how Christmas sales go before revising Nintendo's sales target for 6 million Wii consoles by the end of March.

"I'm not ruling that out entirely, but it's premature to say it now," he said at the Foreign Correspondents Club in Tokyo.

Nintendo has delivered more machines so far to consumers than Sony Corp. has, partly because of Sony's production problems.

Nintendo has shipped about 400,000 Wii machines in Japan and more than 600,000 in North America. The machine went on sale Thursday in Australia and is set to go on sale Friday in Europe.

Sony readied just 100,000 PlayStation 3 machines for the Japan launch, and 400,000 consoles for its U.S. debut. Its European launch has been pushed back until March.

Sony has promised 2 million PS3 machines by the end of the year, while Nintendo is targeting 4 million in global shipments of Wii during the same period. Both Sony and Nintendo are projecting selling 6 million by the end of March.

Selling machines in numbers is crucial in the gaming business because hot-selling formats attract software companies to make more games, which in turn boost machine sales.

Iwata denied that Nintendo was competing against Sony. It's more important to attract novice players and to reach out to older people and others usually not associated with games, he said.

Analysts say Wii appeals to inexperienced players and has a price advantage at 25,000 yen or $250 _ about half of the PlayStation 3.

Analysts expect Wii to mount a serious challenge to market-leader Sony, which has sold more than 200 million PlayStation series machines worldwide over the years, although they say the verdict on next-generation machines is still out for a couple of years.

Sony is expecting to rack up 200 billion yen ($1.7 billion) in red ink in its game unit for the fiscal year ending March 2007, much of it in startup costs for PlayStation 3.

Nintendo is forecasting profit of 100 billion yen ($845 million) for the fiscal year, as Wii buoys earnings in the second half.

************************************************** *

Now did anyone NOT see that the strap breaking NOT being a problem for the Wiimote? You would have to be brain dead not to see that one coming. Hell, how often are kids gonna use them as weapons to swing at siblings or friends, LOL.

[Orga777]

I covered the strap thing already Saru in the Wii thread.;) I find it funny though. The Attack of the Flying Wii-motes!:laugh:


It's really getting obnoxious with how Gamespot is so anti-Sony and anti-Nintendo.


Eh? They seem more level than you give them credit for. You did read to the end of the article that Seer posted right?


We're going to give the PS3 the benefit of the doubt in this initial round since developers might need more time to figure out how to maximize performance from the Cell and the RSX. If you look at the Xbox 360's first Madden game, Madden 06, you'll notice that it doesn't offer very realistic stadium shadows, either. The trouble with buying a console at launch is that you often have to wait for the second or third generation of games for the system to fulfill its potential. The PS3 didn't beat the 360 in this first comparison, but the games do look fine for first-generation titles. The real graphics battle will likely come next year.


Same thing Saru said. I don't have a clue why they did that NOW when the PS3 was just released only a few weeks ago though.

[Seer235]

Now did anyone NOT see that the strap breaking NOT being a problem for the Wiimote? You would have to be brain dead not to see that one coming. Hell, how often are kids gonna use them as weapons to swing at siblings or friends, LOL.

It's really all just because people are so enthusiastic about the motion sensing or because they don't realize that a simple flick of the wrist will do. If you watch commercials for the Wii (I seem to recall one in particular), the people playing it aren't waving their arms around like mad. I'm gonna be getting a Wii later this year and I never intend to use the wrist strap, because I know that major movements are entirely unnecessary for the game.

It is pretty funny to see people go crazy when playing the Wii, though.

[MirrenDono]

It should've been expected. New-gamers and casual gamers are seeing the Wii commercials with the actors waving their arms wildly (most of them), and they imitate them by trying to throw their arms out of their sockets.



Originally posted by Orga777
Eh? They seem more level than you give them credit for. You did read to the end of the article that Seer posted right?

I'm a regular member there, I see more trash then I should. Their staff are all biased, cynical ***hats, and there's enough fanboys on the messageboard to make you vomit.

[Cookson]

LOL....I'm seeing those people going "stupid" while playing the wii, and i'm thinking to myself....do you really need to do all that? If I get the wii(i'm pretty sure I will eventually) I think I'll be buying the normal controller for the wii....I hope theres a regular controller you can buy anyway. But yeah, seeing those idiots breaks there wrists is hilarious....

[Gorjirus]

The "classic" controller, but some games you have to use the Wiimote and Nunchuck.

[Saruman]

It's really all just because people are so enthusiastic about the motion sensing or because they don't realize that a simple flick of the wrist will do. If you watch commercials for the Wii (I seem to recall one in particular), the people playing it aren't waving their arms around like mad. I'm gonna be getting a Wii later this year and I never intend to use the wrist strap, because I know that major movements are entirely unnecessary for the game.

It is pretty funny to see people go crazy when playing the Wii, though.

The problem is that is going to be mostly younger kids doing this. I watch my nephews play games all the time and they go freaking nuts, jumping all over the place and what not. I think parent's will quickly get tired of having to buy new Wiimotes because their kids keep breaking them.

I don't see this as to much of a problem with late teens and up though. The problem there is when your playing with your friends and they decide that since your beating them in the game, they will use their Wiichucks on you and beat you senseless.:laugh:

[Orga777]

The problem is that is going to be mostly younger kids doing this. I watch my nephews play games all the time and they go freaking nuts, jumping all over the place and what not. I think parent's will quickly get tired of having to buy new Wiimotes because their kids keep breaking them.

Or new TV's. You know, what ever breaks.:laugh:

[Cookson]

As for the poll....I'm going to have to go with the Sega Genesis.

[GMK12]

As for the poll....I'm going to have to go with the Sega Genesis.




If I were to go your way sir... I would go for the SNES. I just think its superior to all other systems in its time... and I think its the best system of all time too.

[GMK12]

Oh and other issues that must be addressed is controller batteries, game content, and which system will appeal more to today's general society. In my view the society today has become more mature oriented so that might give trouble to nintendo, but might give advantages to sony and microsoft. Another issue for nintendo is the whole control scheme in general. Although it is revolutionary and I totally like the new approach that nintendo has taken, it might not be very "ideal" in controlling most genres of gaming, ie, sidescrolling fighting (like mortal kombat of street fighter), shooters in general (like Halo... YES I KNOW it will never be ported) and adventure games in general, which limits nintendo's grasp to only a few "choice" genres. The reason for it not being ideal in adventure games is that after playing the excellent game Twilight Princess, I found it VERY annoying to keep centering the camera. Why? Because the nunchuk and the wiimote together only posess ONE analog stick. In the past two analog sticks were used, one for moving and one for the camera. Since the game does not control the camera the least bit, you must tediously center the camera most of the time by pressing the Z of C button (I forgot which one). So that might weaken nintendo's grasp further and severly limits its choice of genres even more.

[XWarGodzilla3]

simply said... the wii destroys the stupid ps3 and the idiotic 360.

[Seer235]

In my view the society today has become more mature oriented so that might give trouble to nintendo, but might give advantages to sony and microsoft.

I'd seriously disagree on that. And mature or not, it's the question of which is easier for a nongamer to get into, which I'd wager is Wii, given the simple control scheme.

fighting (like mortal kombat of street fighter)

You can plug the gamecube controller into the Wii (I think that's what Gor said) and Nintendo won't be using the Wiimote for Brawl.

shooters in general (like Halo... YES I KNOW it will never be ported)

Many would disagree with you on this. The fact that you can point and shoot with the Wiimote like a gun is advantageous to it.

adventure games in general

No reasons given behind this and I don't see why it would be too much of a problem.

The reason for it not being ideal in adventure games is that after playing the excellent game Twilight Princess, I found it VERY annoying to keep centering the camera. Why? Because the nunchuk and the wiimote together only posess ONE analog stick. In the past two analog sticks were used, one for moving and one for the camera.

...Can you tell me exactly which Zelda games ever used two analog sticks? Cause I remember none. In fact, the only time Zelda games were in a system that might possibly be used like that was in the gamecube, and the c-stick was used for item selection.

Since the game does not control the camera the least bit, you must tediously center the camera most of the time by pressing the Z of C button (I forgot which one)

Oh no, I have to press a button to center the camera behind me. It's too much work! :sarcasm:

Nintendo has by no means proven that it will win this generation, but I doubt the control scheme will do anything but help it. In fact, many game developers are psyched about the control scheme which will add to Nintendo's game library.

[GMK12]

Well Mr. Seer... and with all due respect... I must disagree with a number of things that you have stated. First of all my opinion of the society today might not be true to you but from what I have seen and know, mature games just are plain fun even if they suck. E rated games nowadays i think, have to be damn good so that they are not criticized as being "kiddie" even if they are. Of course people would rather shoot things and watch their bodies explode/ ignite than jump around and land on your enemy's heads to hear amusing sound effects (no offense Mario). Oh and the shooting part I said would be a disadvantage, I only count that because holding up a Wii remote standing up or sitting down can be a very tiring task, even if it does not seem so. That is why I think it would kind of suck in a pure shooting game. I also apologize for the Zelda remark. I have never played any other Zelda games in the past except for minish cap and I did not know that it never utilized both analog sticks even for the gamecube. What I meant in "adventure games in general" was not only zelda, but games that might go in the path of God of War, Prince of Persia and other great adventure games. Oh and I do not know if you were trying to mock me on the pressing a single button to center the camera thing but it really is tedious, tiring and annoying, especially if an airborne twilight eagle thing is constantly and persistintly pursuing you on broken rooftops OR on plain flat land. Well im utterly sorry if that sounded bitter to you and im sorry for sounding anti- nintendo (which I AM NOT) but that is just my opinion on the ALMOST perfect control scheme that was and could be utilized in other Wii games.

[Orga777]

simply said... the wii destroys the stupid ps3 and the idiotic 360.

Sorry if I disagree with that statement of yours.

[GMK12]

simply said... the wii destroys the stupid ps3 and the idiotic 360.

Very... compelling XWarGodzilla...

[Seer235]

Some stuff on PS3 and blu ray

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14665 (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14665)

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyid=2006-12-07T235020Z_01_N07316023_RTRUKOC_0_US-SONY-PS3-BLURAY.xml

[godofPH]

So that might weaken nintendo's grasp further and severly limits its choice of genres even more.

Genres being limited, hah! The Wii has already shown it can use FPSes (Red Steel, Call of Duty 3), sports games (Madden, Wii Sports), action-adventure (Twilight Princess), platforming (Rayman: Raving Rabbids), racing (Excite Truck), and RPGs (Marvel: Ultimate Alliance) with just its launch titles. In the coming months, the Wii will delve into fighting (SSBB, Mortal Kombat), RTSes (Batallion Wars 2), puzzlers (Sudoku), Rythm (DK Bongo Blast, Dance Factory), and simulation (The Sims Wii).

So don't be telling me about limited choices of genres...

[GMK12]

I know it seems stupid Mr. godofPH, but im just trying to set a concrete opinion on Nintendo's future with the Wii console. Seeing as to how tedious the camera centering is and the constant pointing of the Wiimote, Nintendo's formula might and could just get stale over the next few months, I mean it is possible, I just do not know how possible it could get as of right now. I also think that the genres could be limited in the future not because of how many games will be employed in each genre, but how likeable the games will be after utilizing the wiimote, oh and the gamecube controller is a type of "failsafe" I would like to say as it is not born of this generation, but last generation. I mean, how many people like RTS's after playing the Wii, no one will know obviously because it has yet to be tried and/or launched. The Wii is sort of in a trial and error stage now as Nintendo is still capitalizing on market expansion and its "outreach to new and lapsed gamers" campaign that may or may not pay off. Don't get me wrong I certainly like the Wii, I'm just trying to set the pros and cons of each system.

[Seer235]

We know what you mean, GrandMasterKaiju, and a lot of people said similar things before the Wii came out. But it's a little late to make that point now. The Wii is released, people have played the games, and pretty much the only negative things we've heard are "some people went crazy with the arm swinging and hurt themselves or their tv." Plus it definetely is getting the non-gamer support, as both the New York Times and Time magazine have said it is incredibly fun, even for non-gamers.

As for the possibility of it getting stale, just look at the DS. The same things could be said about the touchscreen and how deeply it was incorporated into DS games, but the DS is doing incredibly well.

[MirrenDono]

I think your just overblowing that camera issue, GrandMasterKaiju. It's really nice for some genres, and it was excellent in the Wind Waker, but it's hardly necessary. Twilight Princess still has some of the best gameplay ever seen, and it uses that method of pressing a button to center the camera. It's more of a luxury than anything, because there are more than enough games out there that are awesome without it, and more than enough people that would agree with that.

I do agree however, that all genres won't be very good on Wii, at least for a while. But at the same times, there are a lot of gameplay elements that are only possible with the Wiimote, at least to the extent that they're implemented (Trauma Center, Rayman). Well, okay, DS can do TC, but that's about it.

As time goes on, the developers will have had a lot more time with the controls, and then we'll be able to see if its a matter of the gameplay improving as there's more experience, or if the controls are simply too difficult to work with.

[Burkion]

Anyone else catch the bit of info Sony released?


They were planning on making their controller better.

More 'Wii Like'.


Good God. We joked about it, but it's coming true...they really are ripping the Wii off completely.

[MirrenDono]

No, I didn't catch that, link please.

[Burkion]

Heard it on Attack of the Show.

Let's see if I can go find it on their site....

[GMK12]

Tu che Mr. Seer. The DS point that you have set is very solid and is a good example of Nintendo's resourcefulness. As of now I abstain from this argument.

[Orga777]

Heard it on Attack of the Show.

Let's see if I can go find it on their site....

Please. G4 doesn't even know what they are talking about half the time. I don't even count them as a good source for video games anymore. Get me a more credible source before I even consider it.

And since Sony, you know, had the motion sensor before Nintendo with the Eye Toy they wouldn't be ripping off anybody. And don't make me come out with that paton again. ;)

[MirrenDono]

Well, it's not that G4 isn't credible so much as they are just idiots/biased/fanboys. Generally they have the main information in-tact, but they just present it stupidly.

Still, getting info from them usually isn't the wittiest of moves.

[godofPH]

http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/f8603dcd-16ff-49e2-8221-d5f5dd917d55.htm

Then again, its not that hard to outsell your opponent when your consoles shipped ratio compared to theirs is like 10 to 1...

[Orga777]

Yep. It is going to be a harsh year for Sony. The shortage will hurt them for a bit. But by the same time next year they will be back on track and ready for the beginning of a great run.

[Burkion]

...


I honestly wonder if you believe half the things you say...

[MirrenDono]

If you guys start that same damn argument again, so help me God...

[Orga777]

...


I honestly wonder if you believe half the things you say...

Yes I do. :p The sky is green too just to let you know.;)

[Saruman]

Yes I do. :p The sky is green too just to let you know.;)

No it's actually it's black, because if there wasn't anything clouding the atmosphere all you would see is space.:p

[Saruman]

If you guys start that same damn argument again, so help me God...

I want to know the ending to that, because depending on the outcome it might be worth it to instigate them into it.;) :p :darklord:

[Seer235]

Seems like Time isn't all too fond of the PS3.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/18/time-magazine-deems-ps3-a-bust/

[godofPH]

Seems like Time isn't all too fond of the PS3.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/18/time-magazine-deems-ps3-a-bust/

Now, it may just be me, but it seriously seems like most all of the non-gamer publications/news resources/whatever-isn't-gaming-centered has been slamming the PS3 in their news articles about it, meanwhile the Wii basks in their praise.

[Saruman]

Now, it may just be me, but it seriously seems like most all of the non-gamer publications/news resources/whatever-isn't-gaming-centered has been slamming the PS3 in their news articles about it, meanwhile the Wii basks in their praise.

Does that suprise you? Think about it, non-gaming mags such as Time think of games like Grand Theft Auto when talking about Sony and Microsoft as well. But when you mention Nintendo they think of kiddy/family games and Nintendo itself even promotes this. Just look at their commercials, they are all things like the family playing Wii Sports. I have not seen one ad for Nintendo that even remotely targets a more mature audience. Which to me is a bit hypocritical since they are trying to push some more mature games like the Resident Evil series. Nintendo doesn't want to appear to associate itself with more mature games but yet they have them and it seems like they try to slide them by without much notice to anyone outside the gaming crowd. Where both Sony and Microsoft actively target older gamers and get a lot of flack for having mature games.

[Goji Son]

Does that suprise you? Think about it, non-gaming mags such as Time think of games like Grand Theft Auto when talking about Sony and Microsoft as well. But when you mention Nintendo they think of kiddy/family games and Nintendo itself even promotes this. Just look at their commercials, they are all things like the family playing Wii Sports. I have not seen one ad for Nintendo that even remotely targets a more mature audience. Which to me is a bit hypocritical since they are trying to push some more mature games like the Resident Evil series. Nintendo doesn't want to appear to associate itself with more mature games but yet they have them and it seems like they try to slide them by without much notice to anyone outside the gaming crowd. Where both Sony and Microsoft actively target older gamers and get a lot of flack for having mature games.

They know how to sell their product, can't blame them for that.

[Saruman]

They know how to sell their product, can't blame them for that.

It's not even that, it's more about complete ignorance of everyone outside the gaming community, which if you think about it is really rather sad.

[Seer235]

The main problem people have with GTA (at least I think this is it) is that your character is going around in a real city, beating up people, stealing cars, shooting cops or whatever. They think that this would have a bigger effect on kids behavior than, say, fighting off zombies. There's none of the fantasy aspect in GTA to protect it from the claims that it's "destroying the youth" or whatever they're saying. So yeah, having Resident Evil (or Halo, or whatever other FPS, even war games) is very different from having GTA, at least in the eyes of the people who get upset over video games.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Apparently, PS3 isn't selling to well around this neck of the woods. Several consoles are still sitting around the local Wal-mart and Zellers stores. While 360s are obscure and Wiis are non-existant.

[Gorjirus]

^And its weird that Wii's are now selling higher on eBay, even though there are more available than PS3's (in most areas).

But hey, I got mine, so I'm happy.

[Burkion]

Oh, no, it's not weird.


It's as I said; Wii Will Win.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Saruman
Does that suprise you? Think about it, non-gaming mags such as Time think of games like Grand Theft Auto when talking about Sony and Microsoft as well. But when you mention Nintendo they think of kiddy/family games and Nintendo itself even promotes this. Just look at their commercials, they are all things like the family playing Wii Sports.

What about the young African American man at his apartment playing Twilight Princess? And making mild strokes with the wii remote, unlike the other idiot commercials.

Unless of course, you're speaking about the 'mood' of each ad.


Which to me is a bit hypocritical since they are trying to push some more mature games like the Resident Evil series.

Resident Evil has nothing to do with Nintendo, it has to do with Capcom. The only part Nintendo truly plays in the RE franchise is that Capcom loves Nintendo.

However, this is not to say that Nintendo isn't pushing to attract the older audience. Four games developed by them; Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Project Hammer and Disaster: Day of Crisis are all more serious than something goofy like Mario, Donkey Kong or Kirby. That, and let's be realistic here for a moment; do you think every gamer 20 years or older is going to start playing Wii if Nintendo makes a GTA ripoff? No, but they will if they start seeing familiar, mature franchises from third parties appearing on the console.

By creating the Wii remote, Nintendo has drawn in third party support which they haven't had for their home console in years, and by doing that, they open up the doors to many mature titles. EA's made a studio specifically to develop for Wii (SSX Blur to be out soon), Namco's developing over 30 titles for the console, and only 10-11 for PS3 and 360, Konami's making two action-adventure games, one of which may be a 3D Castlevania, and Reggie was recently talking with Rockstar about possible titles for the Wii etc. (and believe me, there's a lot more that could be mentioned)

Nintendo is looking to draw in a more mature audience, it's just that it's not either apparent yet, or it's not an out-in-the-open campaign by them.

[Saruman]

Apparently, PS3 isn't selling to well around this neck of the woods. Several consoles are still sitting around the local Wal-mart and Zellers stores. While 360s are obscure and Wiis are non-existant.

If you look closely the PS3's that you see sitting in stores are the 20 Gig ones, which people don't want, they want the full blown 60 Gig PS3 with all the bells and whistles and for only a difference of $100 you can't blame them. Sony should just stop making the 20 Gig systems all together and just put out the 60 Gig ones. I can go down to Target right now and get a 20 Gig PS3 if I really wanted one, but I don't, I want to get a 60 Gig one and I can wait until after the holidays to get it.

[Saruman]

What about the young African American man at his apartment playing Twilight Princess? And making mild strokes with the wii remote, unlike the other idiot commercials.

Unless of course, you're speaking about the 'mood' of each ad.

Is that a commercial? If so I haven't seen that one yet.

Resident Evil has nothing to do with Nintendo, it has to do with Capcom. The only part Nintendo truly plays in the RE franchise is that Capcom loves Nintendo.

However, this is not to say that Nintendo isn't pushing to attract the older audience. Four games developed by them; Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Project Hammer and Disaster: Day of Crisis are all more serious than something goofy like Mario, Donkey Kong or Kirby. That, and let's be realistic here for a moment; do you think every gamer 20 years or older is going to start playing Wii if Nintendo makes a GTA ripoff? No, but they will if they start seeing familiar, mature franchises from third parties appearing on the console.

By creating the Wii remote, Nintendo has drawn in third party support which they haven't had for their home console in years, and by doing that, they open up the doors to many mature titles. EA's made a studio specifically to develop for Wii (SSX Blur to be out soon), Namco's developing over 30 titles for the console, and only 10-11 for PS3 and 360, Konami's making two action-adventure games, one of which may be a 3D Castlevania, and Reggie was recently talking with Rockstar about possible titles for the Wii etc. (and believe me, there's a lot more that could be mentioned)

Nintendo is looking to draw in a more mature audience, it's just that it's not either apparent yet, or it's not an out-in-the-open campaign by them.

Resident Evil has A LOT to do with Nintendo. Just because it is not made by Nintendo makes no difference, does Sony make GTA? No they don't. So your point is completely invalid there.

Nintendo used RE as their "Flagship" to draw an older more mature audience, it was so heavily advertised in gaming mags and on TV it was sickening. As gamers we see this and notice it, but non-gamers don't get to see it nearly as much as we do and when they do they don't pay attention to it. When you don't see that, you still think of Nintendo as the kiddy/family gaming system, which is the way Nintendo wants it. If non-gamers start realizing that Nintendo has games that are just as violent and graphic, and they lose that kiddy/family appeal, then that hurts Nintendo. I don't blame Nintendo for that, hey if they can play both sides of the fence, thats great for them, take advantage of it while you can because eventually people will notice that they have games that are just as questionable as ones on the PS3 or 360.

[godofPH]

Y'all know what the bad thing is about a revolutionary next-gen console that can be enjoyed by the entire family?

The entire family hijacks your Wii for the night and only one person at a time can play because the machine only comes with one controller and I have 5 people living in my house...

[Gorjirus]

^Bad thing=hilarious situation for others to point and laugh.

*points and laughs*

I'm just waiting to go back to college, at which point there will be at least 3 controllers on the floor. Probably more.

w00t!

[Saruman]

Y'all know what the bad thing is about a revolutionary next-gen console that can be enjoyed by the entire family?

The entire family hijacks your Wii for the night and only one person at a time can play because the machine only comes with one controller and I have 5 people living in my house...

Nintendo REALLY needs to change the name of this console, because that entire post just sounds really REALLY wrong, funny, but wrong.
:darklord:

[MirrenDono]

^ :laugh:


Originally posted by Saruman
Is that a commercial? If so I haven't seen that one yet.

If you watch Comedy Central, it's on there the most. I've noticed that Nick is mostly plagued by the Wii Sports/Family commercial, Spike gets most of the Red Steel and Call of Duty 3 ones, and then CC has a lot of the Zeldas.


Resident Evil has A LOT to do with Nintendo. Just because it is not made by Nintendo makes no difference, does Sony make GTA? No they don't. So your point is completely invalid there.

I do not deny that the RE franchise has done great things with Nintendo, but the company themselves, those working at Nintendo do not work with RE anywhere near as much as Capcom does. In fact, Nintendo Execs will probably do nothing outside of press conferences, private advertising, business meetings etc.

However, I think I misunderstood you. If you're talking about the way Nintendo works with Capcom to market Resident Evil to the mass market, then you're right, they do play a major role with the franchise in that aspect.


Nintendo used RE as their "Flagship" to draw an older more mature audience, it was so heavily advertised in gaming mags and on TV it was sickening. As gamers we see this and notice it, but non-gamers don't get to see it nearly as much as we do and when they do they don't pay attention to it. When you don't see that, you still think of Nintendo as the kiddy/family gaming system, which is the way Nintendo wants it. If non-gamers start realizing that Nintendo has games that are just as violent and graphic, and they lose that kiddy/family appeal, then that hurts Nintendo. I don't blame Nintendo for that, hey if they can play both sides of the fence, thats great for them, take advantage of it while you can because eventually people will notice that they have games that are just as questionable as ones on the PS3 or 360.

Nothing I can disagree with here.

[PyrasTerran]

*Phew* back from obscurity... what'd I miss?


Anyway, I spent some time with Wii. Alot of time. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess practically stole my life for about 2 weeks. And although it took me about a month to complete, I will still say it's the best game I ever remember playing.

Also toyed with Call of Duty 3, Raving Rabbids, Madden 07 and Elebits, not to mention Wii Sports which is obviously rampant.

Oh, and then there's the classic goldmines like Gunstar Heroes and Bomberman '93.

And yeah, now everyone in the household plays the Wii, from parent to 4-year-old child has become a pretty good gamer. Internet browser is fast and makes Youtube more enjoyable on a bigger screen, and the weather forecast is quite useful.

As folks have said, all that's been heard from your average reporter is the success of Wii and the not-much-of-one from PS3. 'Doesn't really matter which way you slice it, 'cause even the 360, a system very similar to PS3, gets better buzz.

Speaking of which, I am hearing of a new term called "Wii60", meaning folks who would rather get a 360 and Wii simultaneously than a PS3. Wii's small price allows it to be added to the shopping cart to have both a mainstream and a hardcore gaming platform at your disposal, both for not that much more than a full PS3.

And going to Sony's system, there is one game I am most interested in playing, and if I had a money tree, I'd be getting the PS3 for it: Lair.

Here's hoping it plays as good as it looks.

[Seer235]

I got a Wii today.

I love it.

Just got through the forest temple in Twilight Princess, and proved my superiority in Wii tennis. This is a brilliant system.

[godofPH]

Just got through the forest temple in Twilight Princess, and proved my superiority in Wii tennis. This is a brilliant system.

Speaking of Wii Sports, my extended family all had a round at it today (extended as in aunts, uncles, grandparents, and cousins along with parents and siblings) and they are billing Wii Bowling as a sufficient replacement to the local Bowling Alley (which recently closed). I'll tell you how varied of an audience that enjoyed my copy of Wii Sports today: elderly ranchers, a dedicated volleyball coach, a banker, a horse-fanatic, a taxidermist -in-training, and a drama club girl.

You just can't get that varied of an audience on more powerful hardware and better graphics alone ;)

[PyrasTerran]

You just can't get that varied of an audience on more powerful hardware and better graphics alone

Well said.

[godofPH]

Well said.

Why, Thank You. Now just to wait for the Sony fans to retaliate to my comment... :p

[GMK12]

Oh and one question although I have a wii, I never really had the time to check this but some gaming reviews and some of my friends claim that playing gamecube games on the wii has slightly cleaner, enhanced and crisper graphics than playing them on the cube. Is this true?

[La Bestia Negra]

*Phew* back from obscurity... what'd I miss?
Anyway, I spent some time with Wii. Alot of time. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess practically stole my life for about 2 weeks. And although it took me about a month to complete, I will still say it's the best game I ever remember playing.


i still think wind waker is a slightly better game......TP (played around 60 % right now) misses something like the boat to cruise around....it was just cool to sail around on the huge ocean....

[Saruman]

Why, Thank You. Now just to wait for the Sony fans to retaliate to my comment... :p

Thats cool if you want to sit down with mom, dad, uncle billy, grandma and your twin second cousins. Me I would rather be playing something like "Resistance fall of Man and Lair."

Oh and yes, I have spent the last two days playing with my nephews Wii system they got for Christmas, my sister lucked into one and I told her to get it, now if she would have also mentioned to me that she could have got a 60 gig PS3 at the same time I would have been very happy. For me the Wii was ok, but it just didn't spark my intrest all that much, maybe once there are more games it will impress me a bit more, but right now I thought it was more over hyped after actually using it, but thats my personal opinion.

Oh and one question although I have a wii, I never really had the time to check this but some gaming reviews and some of my friends claim that playing gamecube games on the wii has slightly cleaner, enhanced and crisper graphics than playing them on the cube. Is this true?

I wouldn't be suprised if it did, the PS2 did this with PS1 games.

[PyrasTerran]

Correct. Gamecube games will appear better on the Wii because the Wii has tougher stuff in the trunk. Statistically, it's about twice as powerful as the regular Xbox. And next generation consoles that play backwards compatible games always clean up the game's graphics. Xbox 360 can do so with Xbox and PS3 can do so with PS2.

[Orga777]

Saruman hit the nail right on the head with his last post. It is all about appeal. And quite frankly there is not one game on the Wii that interests me in the slightest. I never was a big fan of the Zelda series at all. As for the PS3 I already see at least three games that I want to play. So I will be waiting for my chance to quickly nab a 60GB PS3.

[PyrasTerran]

Saruman hit the nail right on the head with his last post. It is all about appeal.

That's right.

For the Wii, the appeal is originality and freshness. That's probably why it's buzz is so positive.

It's officially hit the number 2 spot between the three consoles, which is pretty keen considering 360 has been out for a year. I don't want to imagine what would have happened if all three were out at the same time, with 360 having no real killer app at its launch, it was never in the threatening position the other two were. A smart move by Microsoft.

[Burkion]

I see it like this...

The 360 is a theif, who cheated by starting a year before hand, jumping into an army or Orcs. Obviously he'd have a larger number of orcs dead then either the Wii or the PS3. However, if either the Fighter or the Giant catches up, he'll fall behind.

The Wii is a Fighter or a Paladin, hence it moves faster and is some what quicker then the other two, while not looking as cool. It, however, kills more in an equal amount of time.

The PS3 is a barbarian or Giant, hence it is very slow, yet incredible looking. It won't get as many kills as the Fighter, but it'll get a respectable amount.

[Gorjirus]

No offense, but the amount of "nerd" coming off that post is enormous.

[godofPH]

Saruman hit the nail right on the head with his last post. It is all about appeal. And quite frankly there is not one game on the Wii that interests me in the slightest.

You're just biased :p

*gets tackled by Anti-Hypocrite squad*

[Burkion]

No offense, but the amount of "nerd" coming off that post is enormous.

Blame Morgoth.

[Seer235]

Well, I got to play the PS3 today. Played Resistance.

The graphics were great. Of course. The gameplay was good too. It wasn't Halo, and I definetely won't be comparing it to Twilight Princess, but it was fun to play. Very good battly feel. Tricky opponents, they always duck down at about half health, so it seems like they die, which has gotten me a lot. Something bugged me about their reactions to being naded, though. The bodies seemed to stiff as they flew through the air. And the car driving wasn't too well done.

Does this mean I've played the PS3 before Orga?

[MirrenDono]

^ Yeah, one of the best things about that game is the enemy AI. The Chimera are easily some of the coolest opponents I've ever seen.


In other news, some (possibly) promising news for Wii fans

Especially those who worship Kojima

http://thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1167956183&archive=&start_from=&ucat=8&

At first I was excited at the possibility of an MGS game coming to Wii. Then I realized that it doesn't really matter. Any game that Kojima will make I'm excited for.

[GMK12]

wow... well I'd more or less call that a rap for sony fans in the devolopmental stages of the ps3... Although I can't wait for MGS4 to come out... can't wait to play...

One sucky little detail is this however... We all know splinter cell right? A GREAT franchise indeed... it comes to the wii and leaves the franchise pretty scratched up. Lets just hope MGS wont end up like that on the wii...

[MirrenDono]

That's true, but there's a big difference between Kojima and Ubisoft. If you looked at 6 of their 7 Wii games, it's obvious that Ubisoft decided to use the system to bring in more cash by creating a swarm of incredibly poor games with no effort put into them.

Would Kojima be in charge of the game for Wii, he'd never let it be anything even close to the ports Ubi made for the console, simply because he's one of the greatest developers on Earth and would do anything in his power to ensure that one of his games wasn't bad. He likes Nintendo, in fact, he's on very good terms with Miyamoto, and we saw that he could work with a very different controller for Metal Gear and still produce a solid game (Twin Snakes).

But right now I'm not getting my hopes us just for a Metal Gear Wii. Kojima has always felt that the PS controllers are the best for the MG franchise, and there's rumor that the series may take a break for a while after number 4. A brand new title developed from the ground up for Wii by him could possibly yield better results than a Metal Gear spinoff.

[GMK12]

I agree Mr. Dono. But still... can't shake off this phobia of Kojima screwing up...

Well my judgement is in... After a supposed month ( or a bit more) of playing all three of my consoles side by side, and purchasing their best rated games, I must rank them. Drumroll please...

Second Place: Ps3
First Place: Tie between 360 and Wii.

I ranked Ps3 as last because, although it has TREMENDOUS potential... Judging at this point in time puts it at a disadvantage and the overall package just seems a bit to rushed. The Wii and 360 are tied because they have equal gameplay, excellent online services and the overall identity of not being sony I guess... Although this does not make me the least bit anti sony. I'm just saying Sony sucks... at this point in time.

[Seer235]

It seems a bit early to be declaring a winner. This whole generation just started. A lot can and will change before the real winner can be declared.

Besides, it's probably most likely that the PS2 will be the winner of this next gen.

[GMK12]

I know that Mr. Seer. I just wanted to help indicate which console was winning in the very beginning stages of this generation's console wars. I of course had no intent in declaring the final winner however!

Oh and sorry to be a "know it all" or whatever the term is, but don't you mean ps3?

[Seer235]

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. 360 still has an added advantage though, seeing as it's been out a year. Unless you're remembering how the 360 was in its first month.

And I do mean the PS2. It's just good enough to win two generations.

[GMK12]

Well sorry Mr. Seer for being a bit "blurry". I was talking about all the consoles currently but although I know that sales and tactical headstarts are very vital in the console war I was just comparing them gameplay wise. Oh and just asking, why do you mean the Ps2?

[Saruman]

^^
I think because Seer means the PS2 still has some huge games coming to it, the biggest of which IMO is "God of War 2." The system still hasn't reached it's full potential either, I think Sony could have easily waited another year for the PS3, where Microsoft and Nintendo couldn't, they had to get their new systems out there ASAP.

[Seer235]

Pretty much. This article describes it well:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16394978/

EDIT: Found a site that had some polls from Japan. The first two are about why people choose not to buy PS3 and 360 (pretty obvious reasons, too expensive, not enough games, older consoles are fine). The last graph is about whether people are considering purchasing a next gen console. Most aren't planning the 360 (obvious, this is Japan), but the same amount are willing to at least wait and see for both Wii and PS3. So even though the PS3 doesn't seem to have had a strong start, it's no where near out of the game.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52387372@N00/sets/72157594458999428/

EDIT (again): I'm typing this on my Wii. Whoo.

[Saruman]

That poll actually makes more sense then the ones we see in most video game mags. PS2 and X-Box both have tons of unused potential, the only reason MS needed to get the 360 out was generate more intrest in Microsoft worldwide, Sony was doing fine with the PS2 and didn't need to rush anything, the systeme still hasn't been used to it's fullest extent. Nintendo was really the only one that NEEDED to get out a new system because the GC just wasn't that impressive and was seriously lacking in games and hardware.

[GMK12]

Ignoring the other recent posts out of laziness to read them, I'd like to compare all three system's online capabilities. On a side note, I heard the virtual console was to release Super smash bros. 1 in time for super smash bros brawl. Can anyone confirm this for me? If it does however... that is an excellent move on Nintendo's part.

[Gorjirus]

EDIT (again): I'm typing this on my Wii. Whoo.

Oh you suck. I was going to do that when I got back to college. :p

[GMK12]

To me typing on the wii is quite bothersome and time consuming, of course, comparing it to normal typing.

[Gorjirus]

^Can't you just use a USB keyboard?

[GMK12]

..................... I never thought of that......... :hmmm:.

[PyrasTerran]

Is there a USB insert?? o_o;;

From the Kojima interview:

In a recent issue of GamePro magazine, Hideo Kojima, mastermind behind the Metal Gear Gear Solid franchise whose next installment will be a PS3 exclusive, made some statements in an interview that will please many many Nintendo fans and possibly anger some Sony fans.

"You may hear Blu-ray is huge, gigantic, 20 GB or so, but that’s not really that big to us. One basic [gameplay] with HD visual and 5.1 sound takes up so much space that the capacity will become too small in no time."

So what does he think about Wii?

"Wii! [laughs] Yes, I want to do it. I’m saying this everyday. But first, I have to face this giant that is called Metal Gear Solid 4, so until I’m finished with that, I can’t do anything."

But Wii does not support HD...

"We’re not the ones who are saying we want HD. I’m not interested, myself, about HD at all. MGS games tend not to care about how clean the screen looks…we deliberately make the graphics look dirtier to give the atmosphere more life."


I should probably get Twin Snakes. 'Never played a single Metal Gear game... XD

[GMK12]

If you hav a PS2 Mr. Terran, I'd get MGS3 Snake Eater. Its a DEFINITE must buy!

[PyrasTerran]

Hah, my PS2's been collecting dust ever since I got my Wii.. ^^;

[GMK12]

Strange... my Ps2 is in the same EXACT predicament, the only change is that its been collecting dust since I got my 360 last year...

[godofPH]

Hah, my PS2's been collecting dust ever since I got my Wii.. ^^;

What a coincidence, me too!

Which is sort of a shame, I never got to finish Okami...

[UltraGojira]

I got a Nintendo Wii for Christmas.

In my honest opinion, Nintendo Wii is the best Nintendo system since the original.

Seriously, I had so much fun with this new Nintendo system that I could play every Nintendo Wii games all day long.

[GMK12]

I agree. Although I thought most of the launch titles suck. The only one I really enjoyed was Twilight Princess.

[PyrasTerran]

Which is sort of a shame, I never got to finish Okami...

No joke?

That's the game I never got to finish because of the Wii.

Although I thought most of the launch titles suck. The only one I really enjoyed was Twilight Princess.

Eh?

Trauma Center is every bit as great as it was on the DS.

Rayman, while extremely short, made for a perfect rental.

Wii Sports is still played by many a folk today.

DBZ BT 2 is the finest anime fighter you can get right now, made even better with the Wii's controls(i don't think i can go back to the PS2 version now. it feels archaic)

And Excite Truck is grand, as well.

There have been far far worse launch lineups. At the same time, Twilight Princess is just so amazing it makes everything else look like shoddy crap.

[GMK12]

Well, I agree again. That last statement probably was the driving force of my other statement too. Oh and coincidentally, I was going to buy Okami... until I got the Wii... Although not exactly the same situation it is still frightiningly similar.

[godofPH]

DBZ BT 2 is the finest anime fighter you can get right now, made even better with the Wii's controls(i don't think i can go back to the PS2 version now. it feels archaic)

Would you mind giving a brief rundown on how the Wiimote works on that game? I've been interested in how fighters would work on the Wii.

[GMK12]

Well basically, I heard that the wiimote and the nunchuk together can be used for an array of combat moves like punching and sword slashing. One of the more interesting details however is that when you do a beam attack like the kamehameha, you actually do it, and effectively form a "ball of energy" with your hands and "throw" it at your opponents. Although I have not actually played it, I'm guessing this is pretty similar to the control scheme, If you want more details, just ask Mr. Pyras for more clarification.

[Orga777]

.....Damn Wii and its innovation... That sounds awesome. Now if the Wii had games that are more appealing, maybe *I* would even jump ship... But I need my Final Fantasy damn it.

[BS Digital Q]

Recent AP article...

PlayStation 3 Likely Missed Sales Target
Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:28 AM EST
The Associated Press
By HANS GREIMEL

TOKYO (AP) — Sony's long-awaited PlayStation 3 may have missed its global shipment target and been beaten in its home market by rival Nintendo's surprise hit Wii video game system, new figures show.

The results herald more bad news for Sony Corp., which is struggling to maintain its dominance in video gaming amid a three-way battle with Nintendo and Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360.

Sony sold 466,716 PlayStation 3 units in Japan from its Nov. 11 domestic launch date to the end of December, according to a market survey released Tuesday by Japanese computer game publisher Enterbrain Inc. The figures fall short of the 1 million consoles Sony predicted it would ship domestically by year's end.

Earlier this week, Sony said it met its shipping target of 1 million PS3s in the United States last year. But the combined U.S. and Japan total puts the company well below its 2006 global shipping goal of 2 million.

Tokyo-based Sony is banking on the PS3 to anchor a turnaround from tumbling profits and a costly worldwide recall of 9.3 million laptop computer batteries. Lackluster PlayStation sales would be further cause for concern for a highly hyped product launch already off to a rocky start with two delays.

News of a possible shortfall in Japan helped send Sony shares plummeting 2 percent to 5,440 yen ($45.70) by early afternoon amid an overall decline in the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

Eating into Sony's sales at home was the unexpected success of Nintendo's Wii gaming system, according to Enterbrain. Nintendo sold 989,118 Wiis domestically from its Dec. 2 launch date to month's end, nearly double Sony's total.

Sony has not yet released Japan shipment figures for the PS3. But the company is tallying results and will release them "soon," said Nanako Kato, a spokeswoman for Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

Kato couldn't comment on the Enterbrain figures, but said there may end up being a discrepancy between the domestic sales, which were estimated by Enterbrain, and the actual shipment number.

"We don't know the details of the survey, so we can't comment," Kato said.

Both Sony and Nintendo are projecting selling 6 million consoles by the end of March. Sony expects to start shipping the PS3 to Europe sometime that month as well.

Straggling far behind Sony and Nintendo in the Enterbrain survey was Microsoft's Xbox 360, which had sold 290,467 since its Japan debut in December 2005.

Selling machines in large numbers is crucial in the gaming business because it encourages software companies to make more games to play on the machines, which in turn boosts console sales.

Sony controlled the previous generation of video game consoles with 70 percent of the global market, including 35 million PlayStation2 consoles in the United States. The original Xbox was second with nearly 15 million sold, followed by 11 million Nintendo GameCubes.

Anyway, after playing a level of "Gears of War" at a friend's, I'm seriously thinking of jumping on the Xbox 360 bandwagon. That game seriously pwns.

[Orga777]

Yea, yea. I know of that artical. I believe it was brought up in another topic... Anyway, that is understandable since they didn't have 1,000,000 PS3's to begin with. I have stated it many times before. Once the shortage is over, they will be fine and will gain a lot of support. They should have waited though. The PS2 is still dominating sales, so they should have waited an extra year and released it fall of 2007 not 06. Oh well.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by BS Digital Q
Anyway, after playing a level of "Gears of War" at a friend's, I'm seriously thinking of jumping on the Xbox 360 bandwagon. That game seriously pwns.

You may come close to crapping yourself as the game goes on in that case, just a heads up ;)

[GMK12]

Well... just my prediction in like 5 years...

Nintendo 37- 43 million units sold by 2011
Microsoft 39- 41 million units sold by 2011
Sony 32- 46 million units sold by 2011

As you can see, my predictions so far favor an even spread of the market share between all 3 companies.

[Gorjirus]

Yea, yea. I know of that artical. I believe it was brought up in another topic... Anyway, that is understandable since they didn't have 1,000,000 PS3's to begin with. I have stated it many times before. Once the shortage is over, they will be fine and will gain a lot of support. They should have waited though. The PS2 is still dominating sales, so they should have waited an extra year and released it fall of 2007 not 06. Oh well.


*laughs*

Really? When the shortage is over, it'll be fine?


Then why are there PS3's sitting in stores?

[GMK12]

Good point Mr. Gorjirus. That is a very good example why Sony might just lose this war.

[Seer235]

No one's gonna lose the console war. Nintendo has its handhelds to keep it afloat indefinetely if a console does poorly (see Gamecube). Microsoft and Sony are both huge corporations who are gonna keep bringing out consoles even if they lose a lot of money off them. I don't see any of the companies "losing" any time soon.

[Gorjirus]

Microsoft and Sony are both huge corporations who are gonna keep bringing out consoles even if they lose a lot of money off them. I don't see any of the companies "losing" any time soon.


Though I find the "Sony is banking on the PS3 to anchor a turnaround from tumbling profits" as evidence in an argument.

[GMK12]

Actually... I fully agree with you Mr. Seer, but now i'm talking about the individual profits that the companies are going to make from thier sole home consoles of the seventh generation when the seventh generation ends in an expected 5 years.

[Burkion]

Here's a funny thing; there is a PS3 just sitting in a WalMart, been there for WEEKS.

Before Christmas infact.


No one has even looked at it.


ANd yet I still can't find one damn Wii. Or a Wiimote.

...or anything other then the games.

[MirrenDono]

As Saruman mentioned, a lot of those that are on the shelves are the 20 GB consoles, which really only appeals to the Ebay Salesmen, those that cannot afford the 60 GB, or those that are absolutely desperate to have a PS3.

While I can imagine that some of the 60 GBs are still laying around, most of them have sold out already. The 20 GB isn't worth it.

[Gorjirus]

^No, there are 60 GB laying around.

[GMK12]

I too, must testify Mr. Dono. For a few weeks now My cousin has been taking me window shopping ALL over NYC. He really wants a ps3 and he just does not have the money for it. All over there Atleast 3 boxes of 60 GB and atleast 4 boxes of 20 GB Ps3's lying around. I was planning to buy him one, but alas, I do not have the money...

[Saruman]

I too, must testify Mr. Dono. For a few weeks now My cousin has been taking me window shopping ALL over NYC. He really wants a ps3 and he just does not have the money for it. All over there Atleast 3 boxes of 60 GB and atleast 4 boxes of 20 GB Ps3's lying around. I was planning to buy him one, but alas, I do not have the money...

That's funny, I live in NY myself and I can't get a 60 gig PS3 anywhere. I have been to numerous stores and asked if maybe one of their other stores had one and would ship it and have been told by every sales person they were sold out and could not get one. I found plenty of 20 gig PS3's though throughout various stores. Now I haven't really gone looking since Jan. 1st, so I don't know what supplies are like now, but before then I couldn't get one anywhere.

Though I just bought an 80 gig iPod and am in the process of burning my entire cd collection to it, so I don't really have time to play any games right now, LOL.

[Orga777]

^No, there are 60 GB laying around.

Really? Please point me in the direction. I would really like to know where these PS3's are. I haven't seen the 60GB anywhere around here.

[Burkion]

Come on down to Whinchester TN.

It's at Wal Mart for me.


I think it's getting dusty...

[godofPH]

Come on down to Whinchester TN.

It's at Wal Mart for me.


I think it's getting dusty...

Oh, and don't forget the Wal-Mart not-so-Supercenter in Miles City, Montana. They've got some there, and the only times they've moved is when the janitors had to dust inside the game case.

[Gorjirus]

Elizabethtown, KY.

Of course, it has been a few weeks (college!), so they might be gone.

But yeah. They are (where) here.

[Orga777]

Oh, and don't forget the Wal-Mart not-so-Supercenter in Miles City, Montana. They've got some there, and the only times they've moved is when the janitors had to dust inside the game case.

Pfft. No one lives in Montana anyway. That is why they are still there. :p

[Saruman]

Went to Best Buy today to pick up a car adaptor for my iPod and they had 3 60gig PS3's, though they had like 75 Wii's as well and a bunch of 360's, they all seemed to have a nice layer of dust on them.

Guess the holiday rush is over now, LOL.

[godofPH]

Pfft. No one lives in Montana anyway. That is why they are still there. :p

We do have people here, we're only the second least populated state...:snivel:

[godofPH]

http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/e8efed84-0142-41ff-bbf8-2b9cb9af1782.htm

A certain Microsoft Head Honcho is getting ballsy...

[Orga777]

And Sony is going to just laugh at that. They know right now that the PS3 is looking bleak, but by the next year, when all three systems are practically even Microsoft will get insert foot into mouth syndrome.

[Gorjirus]

Most screwed up thing I've read in a while (And I've read some pretty pretty screwed up things):

http://wii.ign.com/articles/755/755456p1.html

[GMK12]

That is incredibly sad... My condolences goes out to those poor three children...

[Orga777]

......Holy hell..... Now that just sucks.

[Saruman]

Most screwed up thing I've read in a while (And I've read some pretty pretty screwed up things):

http://wii.ign.com/articles/755/755456p1.html

And people were complaining about what went on with the PS3 on release day, this makes that look like nothing.

Just goes to show you people will do stupid things no matter how much the prize is worth.

To bad for the kids, to lose their mom over something so stupid like this is sad.

[Gorjirus]

And people were complaining about what went on with the PS3 on release day, this makes that look like nothing.

I would have to disagree on that. Killing your be accident is alot different than going out and purposly killing people.

[Saruman]

I would have to disagree on that. Killing your be accident is alot different than going out and purposly killing people.

Dead is Dead, doesn't matter how you get there.

But this isn't an accident IMO. Any doctor could have told them that this could have resulted in the death of someone, water poisoning isn't something that has just been discovered. Hell I have know about water poisoning for many years now. Anything that causes people do do things they would not normally do with their bodies should be completely cleared with medical professionals beforehand. Why do you think there are professional food eaters, it takes training to get your body to be able to adjust to something this extreme. This is no different then if they put a gun to her head....well actually it is because this is more like torture because it's over an extended period of time and she definitely suffered before she died.

[PyrasTerran]

I'm gonna check on the availability of PS3's here in Miami.

Either way though.. I'm not as enthusiastic about the PS3 as I was before.

Originally, I felt like I would have bought the system solely for Lair.

Until I recently learned it's a 1 player game where you use the same character and dragon throughout the game.

Beautiful graphics just aren't enough for me, it lost the appeal I hoped it would have had on me.




I think what Gorjirus means is that death by accident/ignorance happens all too often, but death by murder is a different story. If they did that contest for any other system, even an older console, it wouldn't make it any less or more of the tragedy it was. But you can't put it on the same level as shooting someone for a console.

[Saruman]

I think what Gorjirus means is that death by accident/ignorance happens all too often, but death by murder is a different story. If they did that contest for any other system, even an older console, it wouldn't make it any less or more of the tragedy it was. But you can't put it on the same level as shooting someone for a console.

The contest was called "Hold your Wee for a Wii," it would be pretty hard to do that with another system as it wouldn't make sense.

They also had a doctor call up the station before doing the contest and he warned them of the dangers of what they were doing and the possibility of someone dying from "water poisoning."

Guess what it happened, now a couple kids are without their mother and last I heard 12 people lost their jobs at the radio station over this, hopefully they will go to jail as they should.

So yeah when a doctor tells you what your doing could actually kill someone and then you go right on ahead and do it anyway and someone does die, YES it's exactly as if they put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger. Their actions which were thought out in advance were the direct result of someones death, AFTER they were warned, that's murder intentional or not.

[Gorjirus]

^Bull.

It was her choice to compete in the contest, and it was her choice to drink as much as she did.

The people at the station shouldn't go to jail, no more than any other group that has an activity that can possibly cause death. Notice that it was just that one person who died.

[Saruman]

^Bull.

It was her choice to compete in the contest, and it was her choice to drink as much as she did.

The people at the station shouldn't go to jail, no more than any other group that has an activity that can possibly cause death. Notice that it was just that one person who died.

Are you an idiot??

It ONLY TAKES ONE PERSON DYING to show they were doing something stupid and dangerous.

The people that were RUNNING THE CONTEST WERE WARNED BY A DOCTOR about WATER POISONING. THEY NEVER TOLD THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE CONTEST about the danger and that there was a good possibility on not only death but of doing permanent physical damage to their bodies.

THEY have a responsibility to the people entering the contest to inform them of any possible danger, THEY DID NOT DO THAT. Why the hell do you think they were all FIRED from their jobs and have law suits being filed against them and the station.

You need to not only take some ethics classes but general law and common sense classes as well if you think those people didn't do anything wrong, because they sure as hell did and their actions were the direct result of someones death. Your ignorance and FANBOYISM on this matter is showing through with FLYING COLORS.

[godofPH]

Are you an idiot??

It ONLY TAKES ONE PERSON DYING to show they were doing something stupid and dangerous.

The people that were RUNNING THE CONTEST WERE WARNED BY A DOCTOR about WATER POISONING. THEY NEVER TOLD THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE CONTEST about the danger and that there was a good possibility on not only death but of doing permanent physical damage to their bodies.

THEY have a responsibility to the people entering the contest to inform them of any possible danger, THEY DID NOT DO THAT. Why the hell do you think they were all FIRED from their jobs and have law suits being filed against them and the station.

You need to not only take some ethics classes but general law and common sense classes as well if you think those people didn't do anything wrong, because they sure as hell did and their actions were the direct result of someones death. Your ignorance and FANBOYISM on this matter is showing through with FLYING COLORS.

Question: What the hell does this have to do with the damn debate over which console is better?

[Gorjirus]

^Not an aweful lot.


Though I can assure Saruman it has nothing to do with fanboyism. More just loving to play Devil's Advocate and an undieing love for arguing.

I mean, I read his reaction, and it makes all that time posting in this page so worth it.

[PyrasTerran]

Well, Saruman has a point however vague.

I wasn't aware that a doctor came in and warned the radio station of the danger of this contest. If they continued anyway, that's as good as manslaughter. I mean, you can't blame the contestants for not knowing about water poisoning. I myself actually learned about it just two months ago.

But again that's manslaughter, not murder.

Gorjirus' original point is that killing by accident is not the same as killing on purpose, and although the end result is the same, it still isn't in the eyes of the legal system as well as the eyes of people around.

The radio station didn't have intent on poisoning the contestants so they can keep the Wii for themselves, after all.

Though, it was still very stupid of them, most especially if they were warned ahead of time of the possible likelihood of death.

But no, Saruman, it's not unlikely or impossible for this contest to have been thought up for another console, just because of the name. If it was any other console they would have gone through the same BS. And like Gorjirus stated originally, it's not comparable to shooting someone for a PS3.

But yeah, we are getting off-topic.

Let's cut that out.. and allow me to add some articles to help start up conversation.

----------------------------

Wii

Nintendo of America today announced that it has sold more than 1.5 million Virtual Console games since its Wii console launched approximately two months ago.

The Wii Shopping Channel, which sells classic NES, S-NES, N64, TurboGrafx-16 and SEGA Genesis titles, has proved to be a major selling point for Nintendo's console. Next week, Nintendo plans to add Mario Kart 64, the second N64 game, to its Virtual Console roster.

When contacted, Microsoft representatives said that more than 20 million Xbox Live Arcade games have been purchased and downloaded since the system launched more than a year ago.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/758/758397p1.html

Today, Nintendo release its Q3 earnings report, and as expected, the company is kicking major amounts of ***. Due to the massive sales of the Nintendo DS hardware and software, as well as the strong launch showing for the Wii, Nintendo has reported record consolidated sales and profits for the nine-month period ended December 31, 2006. Recurring and net profits also reached record highs in the same period. Nintendo reiterated its expectation to attain record financial results through the remainder of the fiscal year ending March 31, 2007.

Largely due to the unprecedented sensation that is the Nintendo DS and the surprisingly successful launch of the Wii, Nintendo reported that its consolidated net sales had increased 72.8 percent over the same period last fiscal year. Furthermore, operating income saw a rise of 102.5 percent.

Of course, the self-congratulatory party didn't end there. Nintendo also announced that during the first three quarters of the year, worldwide shipments of 19 software titles on Nintendo platforms reached or exceeded 1 million units each. These games included three Wii titles (Twilight Princess, Wii Sports, and Wii Play), thirteen Nintendo DS titles and three Game Boy Advance games. In addition, Nintendo was eager to report that almost 1.4 million Wii systems have connected to the Internet worldwide. Furthermore, more than 3.5 million unique users have played online matches on the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection for the DS. We hope that those numbers tell Nintendo something about the viability of online gaming.

The company ended the report by reiterating its previous forecasts for consolidated worldwide shipments of 6 million Wii consoles by the end of March 2007. Nintendo was happy to report that it met its target of 4 million Wii consoles manufactured by the end of 2006, 3.19 million of which were delivered to distributors and retail customers around the world.

It seems like all is well in the Mushroom Kingdom; profits are most definitely not in another castle.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/758/758365p1.html

Recently, in speaking with Frontline Studios executive Brian Dreyer, GamesIndustry.biz garnered some choice quotes about the challenges faced by third-party developers interested in the Wii. According to Dreyer, big publishers are wary of developing new titles exclusively for the Wii due to the common perception that only first-party games can sell well on Nintendo systems.

"Nintendo hardware is traditionally seen as great for first-party titles, but not so much for third-party games," said Dreyer. "That fact really scares a lot of publishers and frankly we've seen a lot of publishers take that wait-and-see attitude with the Wii. Rightly or wrongly, publishers are more frustrated with that than independent developers are."

Because big-name publishers are approaching Nintendo's new console with no small degree of caution, a gap in the market has opened up that smaller, independent studios have been wise to exploit. Frontline Studios is one such developer, currently working with Digital Amigos and Nibris on the hotly anticipated -- but equally mysterious -- Wii game Sadness.

According to Dreyer, the biggest draw of working on the Wii is the innovative elements of the console that can provide developers with a unique, new approach to game development. While some of the larger publishers such as Ubisoft, Electronic Arts, and SEGA have been giving the Wii some serious support since launch, many Japanese publishing houses -- namely Capcom and Konami -- have been reluctant to offer much in the way of software support.

"It's the marketing warfare. Nintendo is the challenger, it's the underdog and it has to be coming to market with something that is completely different," claimed Dreyer. "Gamers are yawning at these supposedly great-looking games on other systems. With the Wii, we're back to the fundamentals, the nuts and bolts of any videogames experience, which simply means it has to be fun,"
http://wii.ign.com/articles/758/758145p1.html

Xbox 360

Behind the mild-mannered, be-spectacled demeanour of Microsoft chairman Bill Gates hides the heart of a lion - his fighting spirit firmly on display recently as he hit out at 360's competitors.

In an interview with Dean Takahashi of the San Jose Mercury News, Gates was confident in the future of Xbox 360. He was keen to stress that Sony wasn't necessarily the big player in the console market any more. "We wanted to swap positions with Sony," he explained. "We wanted to not be a year late, not be a big box, not be a more expensive box. How are we doing on that?" You're not doing bad Mr. Gates, well done.

Although Gates has previously praised Nintendo and its unique approach with the Wii, it seems he's changing his tune: "Sony has always been our most direct competitor. Nintendo of course is a competitor. But look at the resolution you get with a controlled experience like that," he said. "Say to yourself, how in terms of using a game for a long period of time, what kind of accuracy and capability do you want?

"Look at the classic Nintendo positioning. Look at the graphics. Look at Nintendo's execution in terms of online capability. We have this thing that nobody has ever seen before. When you say to your friend, hey let's play online, you say then you have to buy an Xbox. That's what 10 million people say. If you want to play online, get an Xbox. We're not standing still."
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/756/756354p1.html

Unlike its predecessor, Microsoft's Xbox 360 is bringing in some serious cash. Microsoft recorded record revenues for the three months ending December 31, 2006. The company's Entertainment and Devices Division (which includes Xbox 360 and the newly-released Zune) brought in $2.94 billion, a 76 percent rise in revenue over the same three-month period last year. Despite the healthy revenue stream, the division suffered a net loss of $286 million, equivalent to the same losses suffered the year prior.

In the quarter, Xbox and PC game revenue increased by $1 billion and 4.4 million 360s were sold. To date, Microsoft has sold 10.4 million Xbox 360s, topping its own forecast of 10 million units by this time. The software giant can find encouragement in the financial success of Xbox 360 during a period that saw the launch of two competing consoles.

Microsoft expects increased profitability over the second half of its fiscal year thanks to increased availability of Xbox 360s. The June release of BioShock shouldn't hurt either.

Overall, Microsoft's profits were down 25 percent for the quarter.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/758/758560p1.html

PS3

A recent report published by market research group Research and Markets (the redundancy gives us a headache too) has chosen Sony's PS3 as the winner of the next-generation console wars. The report, titled The Transforming Global Video Games Market: The Emergence of Next Generation Gaming, deals primarily with the impact of next-generation consoles on the online games sector.

Based on its extensive analysis of the current growth trends in the industry, Research and Markets expects Sony's PlayStation 3 to come out on top in the next-generation console war. The group expects the PS3 to have an installed user base of around 75 million globally by the year 2010. While the study notes that both Sony and Nintendo offer unique products, Research and Markets still felt that Sony's superior technology would give it the edge over the competition.

Although the group designated Sony as the future market leader this gen, it gave very little in the way of reasoning to back up this claim. The primary focus of the study was analyzing the impact of next-generation consoles on the online games sector, rather than determining all the factors which might lead to dominance in the next-generation console market.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/758/758119p1.html


Anyone who thinks of making a snide comment on the ratio of news on this list better shove it. The only reason I couldn't find a more even set of news articles is because I grabbed what I could from all three IGN sites, and PS3 and 360 had lots of news regarding everything but how they were doing, like PS3's latest 1.5 update and the Q3 results of game developers rather than the consoles.

[GMK12]

Well... why don't we talk about console durability now? or did we already? Well if we did not, this is the new point of the argument.

[PyrasTerran]

I don't have a hard time believing all three consoles are pretty durable. I personally think that the smallest would be the most, simply because it doesn't have so many pieces inside it. At the same time, PS3's curved top is a definite plus for crash damage reduction. 360 probably has the worst off because of its 'slim middle', preventing any good shock absorbtion.

[Goji Son]

I don't have a hard time believing all three consoles are pretty durable. I personally think that the smallest would be the most, simply because it doesn't have so many pieces inside it. At the same time, PS3's curved top is a definite plus for crash damage reduction. 360 probably has the worst off because of its 'slim middle', preventing any good shock absorbtion.

Unless you plan on tossing your console out the window in frustration or you are just plain abusive to your console, I don't see how it's a factor. Unless you keep you console on the edge of your entertainment center about 6 feet off the ground.

Now, durability as in "how long you can play till the mircochip fries", you can't really test the PS3 or Wii because they haven't been out for long but the 360 seems to be a very well built machine with minor glitches.

And as for the 'war', I see it as a two way ruling now. Wii and 360 pretty close to each other in America and Wii dominating in Japan.