It seems Catholics have caught the Muslim bug...

[Kaiser Kronos]

Student who takes religious icon getting death threats
By Cheryl Getuiza (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/ContentDetail?contentId=2161762)
FOX 35 NEWS
ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) --A UCF student claims he’s getting death threats for messing with something sacred.

Webster Cook says he smuggled a Eucharist, a small bread wafer that to Catholics symbolic of the Body of Christ after a priest blesses it, out of mass, didn’t eat it as he was supposed to do, but instead walked with it.

Catholics worldwide became furious.

Webster’s friend, who didn’t want to show his face, said he took the Eucharist, to show him what it meant to Catholics.

Webster gave the wafer back, but the Catholic League, a national watchdog organization for Catholic rights claims that is not enough.

“We don’t know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was,” said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. “However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it.”

We just expect the University to take this seriously,” she added “To send a message to not just Mr. Cook but the whole community that this kind of really complete sacrilege will not be tolerated.”

Webster just wants all of this to go away. Especially now that he feels his life is in danger.

University officials said, that as for right now, Webster Cook is not in trouble. If anyone or any group wants to file a formal complaint with the University through the student judicial system, they can.

It that happens, Webster will go through a hearing either in front of an administrative panel or a panel of his peers.


OK, I knew Muslims made the biggest shitstorms over the least offensive things, but the Catholics? :crazy:

Leaving aside that iconography is more of an Orthodox thing, there's the issue that this bears all too much resemblance to the Muhammad cartoon debacle. I mean, yes, Catholics believe in transubstantiation, but it's still a cookie.

Oy vey.

[GMK12]

Meh, it's not exactly something to receive death threats over, but I do somewhat understand what the fuss is about. I don't think it's a fair idea to deem it a hate crime though, since we know not of his intentions, but giving the kid the benefit of the doubt wouldn't hurt.


Also, to Catholics KK, it is not just a cookie after the Eucharistic celebration, to clarify, it is purely the body of Christ. There's no symbolism. It IS the body of Christ. So says the Catholic dogma.


Man.. I never thought that a response like this would be warranted however. Eh, I hope it was just an accident of some sort.


Although, Catholics do very much uphold the sacred value of the body of Christ. For if some one were to... "upchuck"... one out after receiving it, the Priest would have to stop the ceremony, collect every particle of the body, and hold a small ceremony where he burns the remnants of the host.

[Seer235]

A hate crime?

...the hell?

[Burkion]

God DAMNIT Catholics...stop making us look bad!

[Dr. Strangelove]

Meh, it's not exactly something to receive death threats over, but I do somewhat understand what the fuss is about. I don't think it's a fair idea to deem it a hate crime though, since we know not of his intentions, but giving the kid the benefit of the doubt wouldn't hurt.


Also, to Catholics KK, it is not just a cookie after the Eucharistic celebration, to clarify, it is purely the body of Christ. There's no symbolism. It IS the body of Christ. So says the Catholic dogma.


Man.. I never thought that a response like this would be warranted however. Eh, I hope it was just an accident of some sort.


Although, Catholics do very much uphold the sacred value of the body of Christ. For if some one were to... "upchuck"... one out after receiving it, the Priest would have to stop the ceremony, collect every particle of the body, and hold a small ceremony where he burns the remnants of the host.

No. It's a cookie. If muslim can supposedly consider dogs unclean and get *****ed at for not-wanting them in publicized in Scotland, the cookie thing is just a cookie and the way they're over reacting is just as bad(it might be worse. I mean, come on, atleast the muslims got pissed over an animal that could potentially bite them. This is just a frikken piece of bread).

[MirrenDono]

^ The same piece of bread that Catholics believe is their savior and ultimate source of life. To us, it's pretty much us becoming one with God.

I'm sure some people did overreact to it (I especially hate the way a lot of Church officials and higher-ups handle stuff like this), but Catholics have a reason to be a bit upset with the kid. It's not a situation where, like the dog ads in Scotland, an outside party not associated with a specific religion is putting out an image for the public strictly for the sake of imagery and nothing more. This kid directly went to a religious ceremony and apparently had the intention of disrespecting the Catholic teaching.

[Orga777]

Do we have proof of that though Mirren?

Well, in any case, I am just going to lob this in as stupid intolerance like I did the dog thing. Ooy... religion...

[MirrenDono]

That first sentence makes it sound like he did.

Really, what other reason would he have? Anyone that even remotely values the Eucharist would never do something like that. It's just not how genuine Catholics think.

[EternalMothra]

Yet more religious drama....nice.

[GMK12]

No. It's a cookie. If muslim can supposedly consider dogs unclean and get *****ed at for not-wanting them in publicized in Scotland, the cookie thing is just a cookie and the way they're over reacting is just as bad(it might be worse. I mean, come on, atleast the muslims got pissed over an animal that could potentially bite them. This is just a frikken piece of bread).


What's sacred is sacred. I don't think there should be any debate on which belief is more logical because it all comes down to an individual's faith on said beliefs.


Also, I do not know the root of the Muslim's belief on the dog matter, but I do know that, to Catholics, it is definitely not just a piece of bread. The host, through the Eucharistic Ceremony is made into the body of Christ, the one and only Messiah. Thus, it is a big deal to them I guess. Again, so says Catholic dogma.

[Hybrid Gojira]

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. After Jesus had communion with his disciples during the "last supper" you know what He did?

Allowed Judas to willfully betray Him. Ironically, Judas sat in the secondmost prestigious spot on the table during the communion, second only to John. This tells me Jesus was more concerned with someone's well being than He was a newly instituted religious practice and the people throwing a fit over this need to a dose of reality...like caring about someone's eternal destiny rather than him stealing "pieces of Jesus".

[GMK12]

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. After Jesus had communion with his disciples during the "last supper" you know what He did?

Allowed Judas to willfully betray Him. Ironically, Judas sat in the secondmost prestigious spot on the table during the communion, second only to John. This tells me Jesus was more concerned with someone's well being than He was a newly instituted religious practice and the people throwing a fit over this need to a dose of reality...like caring about someone's eternal destiny rather than him stealing "pieces of Jesus".



Erm... technically, all this was already prophesized. EVERYTHING. I mean, the betrayal, (probably) the second most spot etc. Also, I don't quite get what your stating as "newly instituted". I've been taught that the transubstantiation of the Host predates all other dogmas of the Christian Church.


But then again, though incredibly strict as it was well expected in those days, Jesus did have his own shares of problems with the social hierarchy of the day. He oft ran into debates with the equally rule abiding but politically minded pharisees. So... In terms of what He would do/want in this situation, I wouldn't know.


Ah, and to address one more thing in depth, the betrayal of Jesus was mandatory for the prophecies of the old testament to be fulfilled. Being the omniscient being Jesus is, I'm quite sure that what followed was less of a matter of His choice, but rather, again, a fulfillment as his role as the Savior of mankind.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

If the kid took the cookie and did something "obscene"/Bathroom related with it, I could see where the Catholics are coming from.

But comeon, he walked away with it. I see this as rather disrespectful and can appreciate them being a little bit crossed with the kid.

But "Hate Crime"? Thems fightin' words nowadays, and it sounds like their just using the phrase to get media attention.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Erm... technically, all this was already prophesized. EVERYTHING. I mean, the betrayal, (probably) the second most spot etc. Also, I don't quite get what your stating as "newly instituted". I've been taught that the transubstantiation of the Host predates all other dogmas of the Christian Church.


But then again, though incredibly strict as it was well expected in those days, Jesus did have his own shares of problems with the social hierarchy of the day. He oft ran into debates with the equally rule abiding but politically minded pharisees. So... In terms of what He would do/want in this situation, I wouldn't know.

....regarding the prophecy, you missed what I was saying. Jesus didn't TREAT Judas any differently even though he was about to betray Him. In fact, Judas' position within the communion table shows Jesus cared about him.

Compare that to how the Catholics are reaticng here, and they are way off base. Jesus only ridiculed unjust priests who were breaking their own traditions and failing to do what was right even by their own standards. I fail to see how God above is gonna be royally upset with some guy over communion. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

and how do you predate Jusus being alive and instituting His own body being eaten? He has to be alive for that to happen. I differ on what the communion actually means btw, but I know what Catholics believe. I'm protestant so I consider communion to be important but more symboilic.

Remember the whole "Forgive them Father they know not what they do?" bit? God cares more about your heart than He does your actions. You can act Christian and fail to be one. You can be a Christian and not act like one, which is what Paul refers to as a baby believer.

But if your heart is right, eventually your actions follow. That is why Christianity is not a works based faith, and why someone's perceived irreverent actions should not cause such an uproar.

Edit: fixed typos. Posted from my phone...

[GMK12]

....regarding the prophecy, you missed what I was saying. Jesus didn.t TREAT Judas any differently even though he was about to betray Him. In fact, Judas' position within the communion table shows Jesus cared about him.

Compare that to how the Catholics are reaticng here, and they are way off base. Jesse only ridiculed unjust priests who were breaking their own traditions and failing to do what was right even by their own standards. I fail to see how God above is gonna be royally upset with some guy over communion. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

and how do you predate Jusus being alive and instituting His own body being eaten? He has to be alive for that to happen. I differ on what the communion actually means btw, but I know what Catholics believe. I'm protestant so I consider communion to be important but more symboilic.

Remember the whole "Forgive them Father they know not what they do?" bit? God cares more about your heart than He does your actions. You can act Christian and fail to be one. You can be a Christian and not act like one, which is what Pau? refers to as a baby believer.

But if your heart is right, eventually your actions follow. That is why Christianity is not a works based faith, and why someone's perceived irreverent actions should not cause such an uproar.


Indeed you are correct, I agree with you wholeheartedly.


But to correct one misconception, I actually meant by my "predate" bit that it is old to US because it was probably the first belief Jesus himself instituted. New to them, old to us. That's where our misunderstanding probably stems from.

[Raptor]

KK, I have as much a problem with FOX as the stupid kid. Ever thought about bringing your buddy to an Inquiry class?
As JOURNALISM (even electronic/TV), the report (http://www.myfoxlakecharles.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6945924&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1) leaves a lot to be desired.
You had a link to the ORLANDO FOX but it's "unavailable" so I ran it through Dogpile to see if it was as badly WRITTEN as we're seeing here. IT IS, and the locals are simply repeating it.
I was particularly curious about this statement: Catholics worldwide became furious. I'm wondering if this so-called "news" item is even showing up anywhere but on FOX.
Yesterday seemed to be a slow day for news, judging by CNN's hourly cycle. Now we have yet ANOTHER mountain out of a matzo ball, pretty much. :sarcasm:
“We don’t know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was,” said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. “However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it.”Way to prepare to face today's media, lady... Speak for yourself instead of putting a very large religious group in a bad light.

[Orga777]

KK, I have as much a problem with FOX as the stupid kid. Ever thought about bringing your buddy to an Inquiry class?
As JOURNALISM (even electronic/TV), the report (http://www.myfoxlakecharles.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6945924&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1) leaves a lot to be desired.
You had a link to the ORLANDO FOX but it's "unavailable" so I ran it through Dogpile to see if it was as badly WRITTEN as we're seeing here. IT IS, and the locals are simply repeating it.
I was particularly curious about this statement: I'm wondering if this so-called "news" item is even showing up anywhere but on FOX.
Yesterday seemed to be a slow day for news, judging by CNN's hourly cycle. Now we have yet ANOTHER mountain out of a matzo ball, pretty much. :sarcasm:
Way to prepare to face today's media, lady... Speak for yourself instead of putting a very large religious group in a bad light.

Well, it is Faux News. I expect this from them. They just want ratings. They don't know how to report.

[SpaceHunterM]

*sigh*


I don't know if I'm more annoyed at people who would send death threats over this sort of **** or the people who are petty enough to get pissed at people being upset at all about this. The fact is that the host is in fact a religious icon and should be respected as such. The guy did something disrespectful and he getting deserves the hearing and such. If he gets punished its not gonna be based on the whims on a few maniacs it'll be based on the whims of his peers or the college administration, niether of which is very likely to be controlled by religious fanatics. So.... everyone should just relax and not make huge assumptions about either side of this issue.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Great post about the media Rap, though I'm sure we've all seen most media outlets do the same type of thing.

Grandmaster, I understand what you mean now. 8-)

Though are you saying you think Judas was predestined (had no choice) but to do what he did?

[Kaiser Kronos]

I was particularly curious about this statement: I'm wondering if this so-called "news" item is even showing up anywhere but on FOX.
Yesterday seemed to be a slow day for news, judging by CNN's hourly cycle. Now we have yet ANOTHER mountain out of a matzo ball, pretty much. :sarcasm:


Considering that there are 1 billion Catholics, I doubt most of them even know this is going on, myself.

[Raptor]

Hybrid: It's bad enough with all the prejudice, ignorance and intolerance in the world without what should be a source of information basically CREATING more brushfires with the "power" of their influence. Journalism should take their responsibility seriously, the same with various church representatives.

That goes for header/headline writers in particular. Being "catchy" is one thing but save the inflammatory stuff for the editorial/opinion section. ;)

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Hybrid_Gojira
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. After Jesus had communion with his disciples during the "last supper" you know what He did?

Allowed Judas to willfully betray Him. Ironically, Judas sat in the secondmost prestigious spot on the table during the communion, second only to John. This tells me Jesus was more concerned with someone's well being than He was a newly instituted religious practice and the people throwing a fit over this need to a dose of reality...like caring about someone's eternal destiny rather than him stealing "pieces of Jesus".

You act as if Jesus never got mad at people for disrespecting something sacred. See, there's this story in the Bible where Jesus got pretty pissed off when merchants and possibly whores turned the temple into a marketplace. He even got rather aggressive.

That's why I hate when others say that we as Christians have to be harmless as lambs when confronting any kid of conflict or evil.

[Zigra]

Remember, folks, it's only crazed fanaticism if another religion is doing it:sarcasm:

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

That's why I hate when others say that we as Christians have to be harmless as lambs when confronting any kid of conflict or evil.
The kid didn't hold a Nun hostage at gun point. He took the cookie and walked off with it.

Calling Hate-crime on every little mis-step and incident is just plain childish. Hold the phrase for something that is actually worth making a deal out of.

[beastfromosaka]

The kid didn't hold a Nun hostage at gun point. He took the cookie and walked off with it.

Calling Hate-crime on every little mis-step and incident is just plain childish. Hold the phrase for something that is actually worth making a deal out of.
Agreed This should not be considered a hate crime.

[alienhulk2099]

I wouldn't be suprised if this counts as breaking the eighth commandmenth, but calling it hate crime when intentions aren't even KNOWN!? Come on!:nonono2:

[Hybrid Gojira]

You act as if Jesus never got mad at people for disrespecting something sacred.

Clearly you didn't read all my posts. I said Jesus ridiculed the religious leaders of His time. No where did say we should not confront evil when necessary. Jesus was actually quite rude and insulting to the pharisees because He had to be. There was clearly nothing else they understood since they were violating their own laws.

That's why I hate when others say that we as Christians have to be harmless as lambs when confronting any kid of conflict or evil.

Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

Taken in proper context, it's right to be that way. Why get up in arms about something that is ultimately insignificant. This kid is being stupid, not evil. There's the difference. He's irreverent, sure, but that is hardly evil nor deserving of lashing or calling it a hate crime.

People should be worrying about more important things.

One of the main things Jesus criticized was the priests' strict adherence to the letter of the law. They became so uptight about doing right that they forgot WHY the were practicing certain things to begin with. A great example is the eating of pork - meat became so important when in reality it wasn't about that, it was about the person's heart - pun not intended.

[MirrenDono]

People, I wasn't referring to this particular situation when I said that last sentence. I even said that I didn't like how higher-ups responded to this. I meant that more along the lines of crime and punishment, or facing any violence.



Originally posted by Hybrid_Gojira
Clearly you didn't read all my posts. I said Jesus ridiculed the religious leaders of His time. No where did say we should not confront evil when necessary. Jesus was actually quite rude and insulting to the pharisees because He had to be. There was clearly nothing else they understood since they were violating their own laws.

He hated their laws anyways. None of that was necessarily religious disrespect in the way my example was, or this story may have been.

[SuperXAsh]

While I wouldn't necessarily compare this to how crazy some muslims get over such things, (what with all the death threats, violence, demonstrations, etc.), it still is pretty silly how this has been blown out of proportion. Really it is just a (possibly unintentional) slight against this one church. We aren't seeing prominent members of the Catholic faith calling for this kid to be beheaded. But we are seeing people make a whole lot out of nothing.

BUT sadly, we're living in a very touchy-feely, sensitive age where every possible (or imagined) slight is blown out of proportion. Blame it on lawyers, lawsuits, the PC crowd, special treatments, etc. for creating this.

And ALL news media does this Raptor, creating hysteria and brushfires. It was probably a slow news cycle or something. Now, if it becomes something more than just silly local news, then it'll be even MORE ridiculous. But right now it's just some church people having a hissy fit and going to the media first.

[Hybrid Gojira]

EDIT: You know, I posted a response and realized it wasn't really worth it.

Bottom line - I don't think this is worth the attention it's getting, from the people in the catholic community (assuming the article is accurate) or us.