17. Monster X vs. Gorosaurus

[Battle Master]

Monster X (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21118)
vs.
Gorosaurus (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21140)
-
Battlefield: Osaka (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showpost.php?p=333115&postcount=29)

[The Great MM]

I don't care. I'm voting Gorosaurus all the way. MX is going to rush in, do that jump thing, and get a face-full of kangaroo kick. It downed Ghidorah like it was nobodies business, it'll wreck MX.

[Husnock]

Yeah, umm, even if that were likely, there's still the BEAMS.

[The Great MM]

Yeah, umm, even if that were likely, there's still the BEAMS.

You mean those beams that Monster X doesn't start to use until his opponent uses beams?

[Orga777]

Desite the diatribes MM like to spout about Monster X who I hate just as much as he does, he is still one of the most deadly kaiju in this tournament. Gorosaurus is going to be a broken, bloody, mess on the ground after this fight. Monster X is stronger, faster, and much better in the defense department. I wish MX would stop getting these cake kaiju in the first round. It is getting annoying.

Winner: Monster X
Loser: Gorosaurus

[Zardac the Great]

Gorosaurus hides behind a refinery and they both die.

[SpaceHunterM]

I await amusing arguments from Monster Master

I will not vote until then




Monster X

[Tomzilla]

Too bad Gorosaurus doesn't use the Kangaroo Kick right away. Too bad it wouldn't win him the fight even if he did. Monster X is way out of Gorosaurus's league. He fought and harmed Final Wars Godzilla. He has mind boggling strength, durability, and awesome firepower to boot.

Monster X wins in under a minute.

Winner: Monster X

Loser: Gorosaurus

[Inferno Rodan]

Monster X wins in under a minute.
With what? His Uber Kung Fu Skillz consisting of a flying backfist-tailwhip combo?

No, Gorosaurus does not use his Kangaroo Kick right off the bat. But it's not like MX is going to kill him before he DOES use it and caves MX's head in.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Monster X wins in under a minute.

With what? His Uber Kung Fu Skillz consisting of a flying backfist-tailwhip combo?

YES.


:)

[MirrenDono]

Maybe if Goro's best Kangaroo Kick was terribly limited, there'd be a decent argument for him here. But his best Kangaroo Kick is terribly limited. He has to set himself up for it, and he can only strike within an extremley narrow area. He also must be at a perfect range for it, otherwise he'd either miss altogether, or he'd be close. That situation would result in either him hitting his opponent as he rises up, failing to hurt them and stopping his momentum, or not generating enough momentum to perform the kick at full power, as shown in his battle with Kong. It'd be like trying to pull off a Dropkick without jumping backwards against someone who is literally a foot away from you.

Goro's gonna die.

[Super Angillas]

Goro could take a clue from Giant Sea Snakes fight with MX, and just bribe MX with a few grand to throw the fight. MX will then go and by himself surround sound system to go with the High Def TV.

[Zardac the Great]

And review movies. Don't forget that!

[Godzillakamper]

AWWW WHAT THE HELL IS THIS CRAP I THOUGHT WE GOT RID OF KAIG=JU SO WE WOULDN'T GET MATCH UPS LIKE THIS........ EPIC FAIL!

[Godzilla]

AWWW WHAT THE HELL IS THIS CRAP I THOUGHT WE GOT RID OF KAIG=JU SO WE WOULDN'T GET MATCH UPS LIKE THIS........ EPIC FAIL!
Calm down skippy, Monster X hasn't won a championship and isn't eligible to be banned yet.

[Godzillakamper]

Calm down skippy, Monster X hasn't won a championship and isn't eligible to be banned yet.
Still an epic fail in my book.

[Angirus7899]

i think gorosaurus can win this match. yes mx will come rushing in and yes he has the beams but yet he doesnt use them very much he wants to stand and trade and doing that with gorosaurus will be a mistake.


Edge Gorosaurus

[Burkion]

Not really.

The Roo Kick, which I'm not certain is enough to end the fight, takes a bit to set up and pull off properly.

MX won't let Goro do that.

[Showa Godzilla]

Even if Gorosaurus could land the Kangaroo kick, it wouldn't win him the fight. Monster X is going to beat the **** out of Gorosaurus.

Winner: Monster X
Loser: Gorosaurus

[Tomzilla]

Continued from the other thread:


Because it doesn't become a battle of strength against Goro and X, it becomes a battle of tactic. Monster X is a damn IDIOT. He doesn't use his strength. He doesn't have kung fu. He doesn't start with his beams. He rushes his opponent head-on.

How is jumping up to swat Godzilla with your hands and tail not using your strength? How is overpowering Godzilla by lifting up by just the wrists not using your strength?

And guess what? His strategy was working. He just had the misfortune of fighting a foe whose attrition outclassed his (and even that is debatable).

Gorosaurus, on the other hand, went for Ghidorah and USED his strength.

Actually, Gorosaurus in the beginning waited for his allies to rush Ghidorah. After Ghidorah fired his gravity bolts, Gorosaurus succumbed by nearly falling down--when those same bolts didn't even strike him directly.

That right there is your biggest problem. Gorosaurus had allies to help him pull off those 'incredible' feats you love bringing up. He has no help against Monster X. So why are you expecting him to do the same exact thing?

Remember, Anguirus was dangeling from Ghidorah's necks and Ghidorah was flying just fine, meaning Gorosaurus has tremendous jaw strength AND neck strength.

No disagreement here.

Should Goro's jaws latch on X's arms, X ain't getting it. Not that it'd matter anyway.

It really doesn't matter. Since 1) Goro would let go and 2) it wouldn't harm MX.

If Goro collapses on top of him, X was pinned under Godzilla for OVER TEN minutes, unable to escape. He didn't use his strength to push back or beams to blast point blank. He just laid there, taking him.'

There have been many good rebuttals to this. Another reason why people think you're playing favorites here. They think you ignore everything they say. So I'll do my best to sum up their points:

You can't prove Goji was sitting on MX for ten minutes. The film doesn't even show this. All we have is a couple seconds of kaiju action during that time frame. The rest is human screen time. For example: in one scene, Godzilla is surrounded by Monster X and Gigan. The next time we see them, MX has Godzilla's arms locked from behind, giving Gigan a free shot. We can't say for sure how this occurred. Only that it did.

This actually isn't a bad showing for MX either. Mirren has tried helping you understand this repeatedly. Even the best fighters on the planet are helpless when their opponent has them in a similar position. Fact MX was able to redirect Godzilla's atomic breath AND stand right back up minutes later to stalemate him in a beam war is incredible.

In the other thread you admitted FW Godzilla is powerful. You agree he's a very strong kaiju. So exactly how is this a low showing for MX when said powerful Godzilla has him pinned? And how does Gorosaurus falling on him mean the exact same thing is going to happen? Godzilla was punching MX repeatedly to keep him pinned. Goro can't exactly do the same thing.

And yet people tell me a fancy spin kick and an MX ***** slap are MORE impressive than one-shoting Ghidorah? The hell?

Who said it's more impressive than one-shotting Ghidorah? Why does that even matter? All people are saying is a fancy spin kick is enough to bring Goro down, leaving him wide open to more attacks. Just because Goro brought Ghidorah down doesn't mean he's invulnerable.

Exactly what has Goro done that proves he's strong enough to withstand MX's attacks?

[Inferno Rodan]

After Ghidorah fired his gravity bolts, Gorosaurus succumbed by nearly falling down--when those same bolts didn't even strike him directly.
I think I explained this pretty well in the last DD. It was more of a "HOLY **** WHAT WAS THAT!?" reaction than one of pain, especially considering he stood right back up like half a second later. Keep in mind he'd never encountered a beam weapon before up until that point.

[Burkion]

The difference here though, while I DO agree with you that Ghidorah's beams didn't hurt him an it was a more of a "What the hell" moment

MX's beams are FAR more powerful then Showa Ghidorahs.

So when he busts them out...

[The Great MM]

How is jumping up to swat Godzilla with your hands and tail not using your strength? How is overpowering Godzilla by lifting up by just the wrists not using your strength?

And guess what? His strategy was working. He just had the misfortune of fighting a foe whose attrition outclassed his (and even that is debatable).


Because MX's strength isn't in his tail for one. You'd have a REAL good point if MX rushed in and performed some sort of glorious MK-style combo... He didn't.

He used his strength... To pick up Godzilla. Really?

Not to strangle him? Not to try and slam Godzilla? Really?

So what was MX's plan after he picked Godzilla up like that? Drop him a whole 10-meters?

Against Gorosaurus, Goro has a bigger jaw. MX's face will be right in front of his, and I think I covered why a bite from Goro would be the worst thing for almost any kaiju. Goro has his legs and we know he likes to kick.

That right there is your biggest problem. Gorosaurus had allies to help him pull off those 'incredible' feats you love bringing up. He has no help against Monster X. So why are you expecting him to do the same exact thing?


Not really. Was he teamed with? Yep.

Goro still dragged Ghidorah on his OWN, while the others WATCHED.
Nobody was touching or attacking Ghidorah when Goro kicked him.

Gorosaurus did almost all of the damn work in DAM while Goji and the rest sat around and moved in every once in a while.

It really doesn't matter. Since 1) Goro would let go and 2) it wouldn't harm MX.

1. Really now? He would?
2. Really? So you question me later how I know a kick from MX won't floor Goro and yet you tell me a bite from a dinosaur capable of dragging down the first kaiju powerhouse with his jaws won't hurt a monster that was never shown to be a damage absorber like said original powerhouse?

You can't prove Goji was sitting on MX for ten minutes. The film doesn't even show this. All we have is a couple seconds of kaiju action during that time frame. The rest is human screen time. For example: in one scene, Godzilla is surrounded by Monster X and Gigan. The next time we see them, MX has Godzilla's arms locked from behind, giving Gigan a free shot. We can't say for sure how this occurred. Only that it did.


Except there's also that entire scene when Ozaki and the Xillian are fighting and it shows Godzilla STILL battering Monster X, in the SAME position, ten minutes after they fall.

Sorry, I'm reading what that fight is telling me.

And, again, I really don't care if people think its playing favorites or not. It's an annoyance more than anything.

Do you really think I enjoy saying Moggy, one of my all-time favorites, is piloted by a group of morons dumber than a brain dead chimp?

Do you really think I like saying Showa MG, my favorite mech of all time, has piss-poor aim and would get his *** raped by his inferior 90s counterpart?

Do you really think I like ignoring the fact Ultras can walk on the sun and refuse to use it in debates?

Even the best fighters on the planet are helpless when their opponent has them in a similar position.

That's good for human fighters and all... And would be a VERY valid point...

Except Monster X has freaking lasers. In his eyes.

Him not using them to escape is as dumb as Showa Gigan not using his buzz saw when Showa Godzilla had him an almost entirely exact position.

So exactly how is this a low showing for MX when said powerful Godzilla has him pinned?

I never said it doesn't make MX powerful. I've admitted MX's strength more than once. I've said he's a damn idiot. Easily the most inept fighter in the entire Godzilla series since Megalon and Gigan strolled Mount Fuji one beutiful day.

And how does Gorosaurus falling on him mean the exact same thing is going to happen? Godzilla was punching MX repeatedly to keep him pinned. Goro can't exactly do the same thing.


Goro has big ole' pretty jaws and we know he likes to bite. If MX refused to use his beams on Goji during that scene, there's no reason to believe he will if Goro starts pulling a Rex on his boney ***.

Exactly what has Goro done that proves he's strong enough to withstand MX's attacks?

And what has MX done that shows he could withstand a kangaroo kick when it one-shoted a kaiju that could fall over a hundred meters on to a pointed rock and stand up without so much as a limp?

Or are we just assuming on the behalf of Monster X because he's the newest kaiju and is more flashy then a good ole' fashion giantosaurus rex?

[Hybrid Gojira]

Blah blah, Monster X bias, Blah.

Seriously, Gorosaurus couldn't beat MX in his own dreams.

[The Great MM]

Blah blah, Monster X bias, Blah.

Seriously, Gorosaurus couldn't beat MX in his own dreams.

Oh look. It's a parasite in cyber form.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
Because MX's strength isn't in his tail for one. You'd have a REAL good point if MX rushed in and performed some sort of glorious MK-style combo... He didn't.

I'm going to bring up this point again, and you're not going to run away from me this time, okay?

A backhand can be an absolutely nasty blow, the one that X performed probably being capable of flooring most Kaiju or disaligning some jaws. There's NOTHING negative to be said about that attack of his.


He used his strength... To pick up Godzilla. Really?

Not to strangle him? Not to try and slam Godzilla? Really?

He either did, or attempted to break his arms/wrists. Against 90% of Kaiju with the same kind of limbs, that would damn near end the fight right then and there.


That's good for human fighters and all... And would be a VERY valid point...

Except Monster X has freaking lasers. In his eyes.

Him not using them to escape is as dumb as Showa Gigan not using his buzz saw when Showa Godzilla had him an almost entirely exact position.

Sounds like Showa Ghidorah not using his gravity beams more in DAM. Or Showa Goji not using his ray more. Or Hedorah not spewing acidic sludge instead of that stuff that did nothing to Goji when he bathed him. Or Biollante not using his acid spray more than once. Or Spacegodzilla not using his tail to impale Moguera the first time he got close. Or Spacegodzilla never aiming with his Corona Beam for Goji's head (or any Kaiju aiming for the head with a beam). Or Destroyah not using his Laser Horn more than once. Or Gamera not using is Plasma Balls somewhere on Legion's body besides her front arms. Or Legion not using the swarm in her first fight with him. Or Irys not using her sonic beams on the ground.

(not going to list the dozen of other silly instances)

This **** happens in the films. The Kaiju aren't of human intelligence, so once in a while, they're not going to do the obvious action that would greatly help them in a fight.

Ever think X didn't do it because he couldn't do so while having his brain scrambled with each and every punch? (that probably also went into the dozens)


And what has MX done that shows he could withstand a kangaroo kick when it one-shoted a kaiju that could fall over a hundred meters on to a pointed rock and stand up without so much as a limp?

Or are we just assuming on the behalf of Monster X because he's the newest kaiju and is more flashy then a good ole' fashion giantosaurus rex?

The problem is that Goro's best Kangaroo Kick is horridly limited, and more than likely won't get a chance to use it. If it was so easy to pull off, why'd he have to run behind Ghidorah and set himself up for it while Ghidorah was distracted by a couple other monsters?

Because it's not reliable, that's why.

[The Great MM]

I'm going to bring up this point again, and you're not going to run away from me this time, okay?

A backhand can be an absolutely nasty blow, the one that X performed probably being capable of flooring most Kaiju or disaligning some jaws. There's NOTHING negative to be said about that attack of his.


... You can't be ****ing serious if you think a single strike by MX is going to floor any kaiju better than a Kamacuras or Minilla.

And you're calling me the damn fan boy?

He either did, or attempted to break his arms/wrists. Against 90% of Kaiju with the same kind of limbs, that would damn near end the fight right then and there.


Or he just lifted him up. There was no twisting of the arms. There was no flexing. There was no snapping. There was nothing besides MX lifting him up.

Sounds like Showa Ghidorah not using his gravity beams more in DAM. Or Showa Goji not using his ray more. Or Hedorah not spewing acidic sludge instead of that stuff that did nothing to Goji when he bathed him. Or Biollante not using his acid spray more than once. Or Spacegodzilla not using his tail to impale Moguera the first time he got close. Or Spacegodzilla never aiming with his Corona Beam for Goji's head (or any Kaiju aiming for the head with a beam). Or Destroyah not using his Laser Horn more than once. Or Gamera not using is Plasma Balls somewhere on Legion's body besides her front arms. Or Legion not using the swarm in her first fight with him. Or Irys not using her sonic beams on the ground.

(not going to list the dozen of other silly instances)

This **** happens in the films. The Kaiju aren't of human intelligence, so once in a while, they're not going to do the obvious action that would greatly help them in a fight.


Yeah, okay. And I've brought up more than a few of this instances in debates at TK. What's your point?

Or are you trying to hide some sort of message in there that I'm some sort of kaiju sinner in not believing in the ungodly might that is Monster X, the most devastating and powerful monster to ever grace the screen.

The problem is that Goro's best Kangaroo Kick is horridly limited, and more than likely won't get a chance to use it. If it was so easy to pull off, why'd he have to run behind Ghidorah and set himself up for it while Ghidorah was distracted by a couple other monsters?


You don't think Goro won't be able to pull it off when MX is doing his infamous charge?

Even then, he doesn't need it. I've already shown why Goro's jaws are deadly enough as is.

Because it's not reliable, that's why.

And a random picking up by the arms is... right.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Oh look. It's a parasite in cyber form.

I'd debate you or IR on this whole MX thing except talking to a wall is waaaay more productive.

:)

[The Great MM]

I'd debate you or IR on this whole MX thing except talking to a wall is waaaay more productive.

:)

Probably because you talk to it every day, even when not debating with me and IR.

Granted, I guess the wall, with its lack of brains, does make a solid source as to what tells you MX is a powerhouse...

[Godzilla]

Wait wait wait wait wait.....So because Monster X gets pinned he is an inept melee fighter? Don't MMA fighters get pinned all the time (granted, the ones that usually lose, but MMA fighters nevertheless).

[Showa Godzilla]

Wait wait wait wait wait.....So because Monster X gets pinned he is an inept melee fighter? Don't MMA fighters get pinned all the time (granted, the ones that usually lose, but MMA fighters nevertheless).

Yeah, Dan Hardy isn't a bad fighter for getting taken down, and pinned on the ground by GSP for most of their fight. I haven't watched Final Wars in awhile, but I don't really need to re-watch it for this fight. Gorosaurus is a decent tooth and claw fighter, with a powerful kick. Monster X was capable of going toe to toe with Final Wars Godzilla. Gorosaurus is going down.

[The Great MM]

Wait wait wait wait wait.....So because Monster X gets pinned he is an inept melee fighter? Don't MMA fighters get pinned all the time (granted, the ones that usually lose, but MMA fighters nevertheless).

MMA fighters don't have lasers in their eyes. Being pinned like that is no longer an excuse for a fighter when you can effortlessly blast your opponent off, especially if your beams are suppose (called such by his fans) to be uber powerful.

It's the same thing with Showa Gigan: pinned by Goji, refused to use his saw.

The problem here is, MX REPEATEDLY failed to use his powers. He didn't use his strength to his advantage. He didn't use his strong bolts to his advantage. He didn't use ANYTHING to his advantage. He's inept.

And while you can list examples like this for a dozen other kaiju, all said kaiju have a specific style. Why didn't SG impale Moggy or Goji before? Because SG isn't a brawler, he likes distance fighting.

Why doesn't Dessy spam his horn? Well I never said Destoroyah was smart either.

[Godzilla]

MMA fighters don't have lasers in their eyes. Being pinned like that is no longer an excuse for a fighter when you can effortlessly blast your opponent off, especially if your beams are suppose (called such by his fans) to be uber powerful.
Yes, but beams don't really have to do with melee fighting skills. There's other reasons why he might not have used his beam, but it doesn't speak of any of his hand to hand combat skills.

It's the same thing with Showa Gigan: pinned by Goji, refused to use his saw.
This does speak to his hand to hand combat skills since it was a hand to hand weapon.

The problem here is, MX REPEATEDLY failed to use his powers. He didn't use his strength to his advantage. He didn't use his strong bolts to his advantage. He didn't use ANYTHING to his advantage. He's inept.
I'm going to rewatch the fight again, but if you are referring to him being pinned down then, again, MMA fighters get pinned downed all the time. It is also entirely possible that he didn't use his beams because he was afraid of an explosion that would cause a lot of damage to himself as well as Goji(although, again, I need to review his beams to see if that's plausible or not).

And while you can list examples like this for a dozen other kaiju, all said kaiju have a specific style. Why didn't SG impale Moggy or Goji before? Because SG isn't a brawler, he likes distance fighting.

Maybe MX is more of a finesse fighter? I think being a finesse fighter would actually be an advantage against Goro since he isn't going to get into a wrestling match anytime soon.

Why doesn't Dessy spam his horn? Well I never said Destoroyah was smart either.
But obviously you don't have to be the smartest person in the world to win a kaiju fight.

[The Great MM]

Yes, but beams don't really have to do with melee fighting skills. There's other reasons why he might not have used his beam, but it doesn't speak of any of his hand to hand combat skills.


WHAT fighting skills?

He did TWO strikes: a tail whip and a slap.

That is not MMA. That is not Kung Fu. That is not Karate.

That is just a tail whip and a slap.

Did you see some uncensored version of FW? Did you see a version where MX does a backwards, head-stand, upside down scorpion sting kick? Or an uppercut into a leaping mid-air spear converted in hurricanrana attack?

Because please share if you did.

MX has no more martial art skills than Baragon.

This does speak to his hand to hand combat skills since it was a hand to hand weapon.

Inept fighter does not just mean inept hand-to-hand fighter, guy. Inept fighter means INEPT FIGHTER.

was afraid of an explosion that would cause a lot of damage to himself as well as Goji(although, again, I need to review his beams to see if that's plausible or not).

............................

You do realize MX's beams, when all they hit was Godzilla, DIDN'T EVEN MAKE LARGE EXPLOSIONS. They made flashes and smoke.

The only time they made an explosion was in that idiotic beam clash between Godzilla and Monster X. And using that as a power source for either beam is as stupid as using Ghidorah's death explosion as evidence as the strength of his bolts.

Maybe MX is more of a finesse fighter? I think being a finesse fighter would actually be an advantage against Goro since he isn't going to get into a wrestling match anytime soon.

Except, ya' know, he's not. I'd like to think Gorosaurus has a jet pack, a facial scar, and a rocket launcher. Doesn't mean he is.

He never tried to fight Godzilla in a wrestling match. Why would he with Goro?

But obviously you don't have to be the smartest person in the world to win a kaiju fight.

Well... a human in a kaiju fight... a normal human... I think you would be. 'Cause you won't beat a kaiju in any other department.

[Godzilla]

WHAT fighting skills?

He did TWO strikes: a tail whip and a slap.

That is not MMA. That is not Kung Fu. That is not Karate.

That is just a tail whip and a slap.

Did you see some uncensored version of FW? Did you see a version where MX does a backwards, head-stand, upside down scorpion sting kick? Or an uppercut into a leaping mid-air spear converted in hurricanrana attack?

Because please share if you did.

I never actually said he had tremendous fighting skills. Like I said, I still need to rewatch it because I don't remember it being as one sided as you make it seem.

MX has no more martial art skills than Baragon.

Actually he does since he was at least about to use an attack that is atleast similar to martial arts.


Inept fighter does not just mean inept hand-to-hand fighter, guy. Inept fighter means INEPT FIGHTER.

Yes, but it doesn't speak to his hand-to-hand abilities. That's what I'm saying.


You do realize MX's beams, when all they hit was Godzilla, DIDN'T EVEN MAKE LARGE EXPLOSIONS. They made flashes and smoke.

The only time they made an explosion was in that idiotic beam clash between Godzilla and Monster X. And using that as a power source for either beam is as stupid as using Ghidorah's death explosion as evidence as the strength of his bolts.
I would have been fine with just the first 2 sentences you know. I agree then.



Except, ya' know, he's not. I'd like to think Gorosaurus has a jet pack, a facial scar, and a rocket launcher. Doesn't mean he is.

He never tried to fight Godzilla in a wrestling match. Why would he with Goro?
I never said he would start a wrestling match. In fact I said he wouldn't. Actually, I said Goro wouldn't. And by finesse I meant he doesn't try to overpower his opponents in, guess what, wrestling matches. He's more likely to do a fancy attack then a powerful wind up punch, a headbutt, or a tackle. Again, I need to rewatch the scene to confirm this.


Well... a human in a kaiju fight... a normal human... I think you would be. 'Cause you won't beat a kaiju in any other department.
Not what I meant at all, although I'm sure you knew that or else I would have to question your abilities in that department.

[The Great MM]

I never actually said he had tremendous fighting skills. Like I said, I still need to rewatch it because I don't remember it being as one sided as you make it seem.

Oh, it'll be a brawl. No doubt about that. There's a reason I wrote this very match for the KWC.

But to actually believe something like "Monster X will hit Gorosaurus in the head... and break his jaws, neck, and give him a skull fracture with one magical blow." is beyond stupid. That's not directed at you, so don't take it as such.

Monster X could win if he uses his bolts effectively. The problem? He doesn't.

I'm willing to admit Monster X has strength. I'm willing to admit his bolts are , in the very least, comparable to Heisei Ghidorah's. If Mirren and Hybrid want to call me biased because I don't believe he is some godly-powerful monster, more power to them. I don't really care.

Now I am (and have been for a long time) willing to admit MX could give someone like Heisei MechaGodzilla a run for its money. Showa MG also, and I don't feel I should again have to say how much I adore Showa MG.

Why am I voting for Gorosaurus? Because he had the jaw power to drag Ghidorah to the ground, on his own. This is the same kaiju that flew through the air for a good while, not even hampered, by Anguirus dangeling from his necks. And a kick that one-shoted the same monster capable of falling for over 100-meters on to a pointed rock and standing up without harm.

Do I think MX will punch Gorosaurus? Probably. Will it kill him... no.
Why? 'cause it's a freaking punch.

Do I think a punch from something with the strength of Ultraman, capable of lifting kaiju heavier than himself with ease, sometimes one-handed, will kill Monster X in one punch? No.
Why? 'cause it's a freaking punch.

Actually he does since he was at least about to use an attack that is atleast similar to martial arts.

You missed the joke, but okay.

Yes, but it doesn't speak to his hand-to-hand abilities. That's what I'm saying.


It doesn't speak for them either. I never used that scene to show how bad his hand-to-hand skills are.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
... You can't be ****ing serious if you think a single strike by MX is going to floor any kaiju better than a Kamacuras or Minilla.

And you're calling me the damn fan boy?

A spinning backfist with his obvious striking skill, and the fact that it's being carried by the momentum of him doing a full spin in the air, I could honestly see knocking down the likes of Titano, Showa Godzilla, any Seesar, most Mothras, Battra, and so on.


Or he just lifted him up. There was no twisting of the arms. There was no flexing. There was no snapping. There was nothing besides MX lifting him up.

There is an obvious crunch that can be heard as he does it, and he does make Goji's arms bend in an awkward way subtly. If that wasn't enough, we hear Goji growl in pain, and, obviously is incapacitated for a couple seconds.

He wouldn't be subdued like that merely by being held up.


Yeah, okay. And I've brought up more than a few of this instances in debates at TK. What's your point?

Or are you trying to hide some sort of message in there that I'm some sort of kaiju sinner in not believing in the ungodly might that is Monster X, the most devastating and powerful monster to ever grace the screen.


Just because he didn't use his beams in that one instance where it would've been very helpful doesn't make him an inept fighter, because most Kaiju have these situations.

There's nothing about him that's inept in comparison to the rest of the Kaiju world. That he held his own, even had an edge over Goji for so long suggests the complete opposite.


You don't think Goro won't be able to pull it off when MX is doing his infamous charge?

Of course not. He would have to time it absolutely perfect to hit it the way he did on Ghidorah, and that's ignoring the problem he faces if X were to jump so that he messes up that sweet-spot Goro needs to hit in order for the Kangaroo Kick to be as deadly as you believe it is.

Nevermind that he may make a move before X. He did, afterall, charge straight at Ghidorah as soon as he landed. Like, in a straight line as if he were a bull, just like X.

[SuperXAsh]

Hate to side against MM, bro, but Gorosaurus is outclassed here. I hate Monster LaX as much as anyone else, but I'm not gonna act like Gorosaurus is an f'n master of war. Because if that's true, then Toho Kong must be the most awesomest kaiju ever.

[The Great MM]

A spinning backfist with his obvious striking skill, and the fact that it's being carried by the momentum of him doing a full spin in the air, I could honestly see knocking down the likes of Titano, Showa Godzilla, any Seesar, most Mothras, Battra, and so on.

Yeah... Knock down. That's A LOT different then "disaligning their jaws" like you originally said.

And I would also argue that Showa Godzilla going all-out Goji-Fu on MX would knock X down. Or an Anguirus back thrust, if he could land a hit with one. Those are just random examples.

ANY monsters has the ability to knock over another one.

There is an obvious crunch that can be heard as he does it, and he does make Goji's arms bend in an awkward way subtly. If that wasn't enough, we hear Goji growl in pain, and, obviously is incapacitated for a couple seconds.


Goji also yelped when he was hit by Gigan's beams. And I really hope you're not gonna' sit there and tell me you think FW Gigan's beams are anything powerful.

And don't even try saying "OMFG! MM HAS BIASNESS AGAINST GIGAN!" when the FW version of the kaiju is on my top 5 favorite kaiju list.


Just because he didn't use his beams in that one instance where it would've been very helpful doesn't make him an inept fighter, because most Kaiju have these situations.

No. It doesn't.

Know what DOES make him an inept fighter? Having a good amount of strength but choosing to go with a flashy spin kick and ***** slap that would do virtually NOTHING to most kaiju out there, including Gorosaurus. Instead, of, you know, effectively using his strength.

Something that... say... Red King knows how to do with his strength. And guess what, I really don't like Red King, besides his Max version. Wanted him DD, yea, but really don't like him.

Of course not. He would have to time it absolutely perfect to hit it the way he did on Ghidorah, and that's ignoring the problem he faces if X were to jump so that he messes up that sweet-spot Goro needs to hit in order for the Kangaroo Kick to be as deadly as you believe it is.

Yeah, I'll give you that. I did forget the jump.

Nevermind that he may make a move before X. He did, afterall, charge straight at Ghidorah as soon as he landed. Like, in a straight line as if he were a bull, just like X.

Problem here is the fact Gorosaurus has shown he LIKES to use his jaws effectively. Monster X has shown he DOESN'T like to use his strength effectively.

Hate to side against MM, bro, but Gorosaurus is outclassed here. I hate Monster LaX as much as anyone else, but I'm not gonna act like Gorosaurus is an f'n master of war. Because if that's true, then Toho Kong must be the most awesomest kaiju ever.

If KKE Goro and DAM Goro were the same creature, you might actually have a point with this. Problem is: they aren't. Different sizes, different roars, DAM burrows, the kicks are performed differently, etc.

[Burkion]

God I hope not...

I finally watched KKE.

Just

Holy Christ

How does Goro look *WORSE* in that movie, suit wise?

Why is he is weak?

WHY DID KONG'S HEAD COME OFF

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
Yeah... Knock down. That's A LOT different then "disaligning their jaws" like you originally said.

And I would also argue that Showa Godzilla going all-out Goji-Fu on MX would knock X down. Or an Anguirus back thrust, if he could land a hit with one. Those are just random examples.

ANY monsters has the ability to knock over another one.

Okay...

But I meant, knocking down and hurting them, perhaps a lot. Because that's very possible with the nasty backhand that X showed off.


Goji also yelped when he was hit by Gigan's beams. And I really hope you're not gonna' sit there and tell me you think FW Gigan's beams are anything powerful.

Final Gigan's beams didn't incapacitate him for a few seconds or make a sound like when my brother and I snap the wishbone from the turkey at Thanksgiving (we don't actually do that)

Which strongly leads us to believe that something inside Goji was being moved the wrong way.


And don't even try saying "OMFG! MM HAS BIASNESS AGAINST GIGAN!" when the FW version of the kaiju is on my top 5 favorite kaiju list.

I have mixed feelings about Final Gigan, personally.


Know what DOES make him an inept fighter? Having a good amount of strength but choosing to go with a flashy spin kick and ***** slap that would do virtually NOTHING to most kaiju out there, including Gorosaurus. Instead, of, you know, effectively using his strength.

His backhand would floor most Kaiju and likely cause jaw or head trauma to a lot of them. He broke Goji's arms or wrists in some fashion, the primary forms of physical attack for one of the strongest guys in the business.

He used his strength and physical ability just fine, you're merely placing outrageous expectations on him that make no sense for the world of Kaiju since none of them use their abilities to their 100% fullest.

You keep claiming you're not biased against him, so I don't get why you blatantly choose to remain unimpressed by his feats that are obviously noteworthy for a Kaiju. I do have one theory about you, but I don't want to get another infraction/s.


Problem here is the fact Gorosaurus has shown he LIKES to use his jaws effectively. Monster X has shown he DOESN'T like to use his strength effectively.

If X uses his strength to break the primary part of the body that his foe will use in physical combat here (and he likely will), he'll be bending Goro's snout in half.

[Tomzilla]

Because MX's strength isn't in his tail for one. You'd have a REAL good point if MX rushed in and performed some sort of glorious MK-style combo... He didn't.

He used his strength... To pick up Godzilla. Really?

Not to strangle him? Not to try and slam Godzilla? Really?

So what was MX's plan after he picked Godzilla up like that? Drop him a whole 10-meters?

And now you're changing your tune. This isn't about whether or not Monster X uses his strength intelligently (or the way you wanted him to use it). This is about whether or not he uses his strength. The bold part? You've claimed he has not. I proved he has (Monster X lifting Godzilla up by the wrists is a show of strength, thank you).

Now that is out of the way...

As for just what was Monster X planning? I don't know. Whatever his plans were, they were thwarted by Godzilla. Y'see, Godzilla managed to overpower him, which threw a big monkey wrench into Monster X's plans. Since Gorosaurus is nowhere near FW Godzilla's power scale, I don't see how Monster X's failure here acts as a mark against him.

Against Gorosaurus, Goro has a bigger jaw. MX's face will be right in front of his, and I think I covered why a bite from Goro would be the worst thing for almost any kaiju. Goro has his legs and we know he likes to kick.

No, you haven't covered anything. Yes, Gorosaurus was strong enough to bite King Ghidorah and pull him down. A true test of strength. (Oh wait, he used his strength to throw KG down... Really? That's it? Sorry, I was beginning to use your argument against you there. It wasn't making any sense.) But that's all he did. So how is biting MX and throwing him down going to do anything, assuming MX doesn't overpower him beforehand?

Nobody was touching or attacking Ghidorah when Goro kicked him.

They were distracting him. Notice how Gorosaurus had to go behind Ghidorah to use his Kangaroo Kick? Using it upfront wouldn't have worked because Ghidorah would've attacked him.

Monster X won't let that happen.

Gorosaurus did almost all of the damn work in DAM while Goji and the rest sat around and moved in every once in a while.

When was the last time you watched the final battle?

Because here's how the fight went:

-King Ghidorah lands (scaring the crap out of everyone). Anguirus tries to attack him. Ghidorah flings him away. Gorosaurus moves in. Ghidorah surprises him with his gravity beam. Gorosaurus stays back and doesn't attack for nearly one full minute. During that time the other kaiju give it their all with mixed results. Finally, Gorosaurus rushes in only after Godzilla has been knocked down and Anguirus is being airlifted.

-While King Ghidorah drops Anguirus and proceeds to stomp on him (possibly breaking bones according to the snapping sound effects), it's then Godzilla and Gorosaurus decide to do something about it. They rush King Ghidorah together and Godzilla is blown off his feet.

-It's then Gorosaurus finally helps. Using his jaw strength and neck muscles, Gorosaurus brings Ghidorah down. That's all he does at this point. Ghidorah forces him to retreat with a stray gravity bolt. Before Ghidorah could fly away, Godzilla rushes in and keeps Ghidorah on land, giving the other kaiju a chance to attack the three-headed fiend simultaneously.

-While Godzilla and Anguirus distracts King Ghidorah, Gorosaurus moves in from behind, and delivers the Kangaroo Kick. Ghidorah is down. Godzilla, Anguirus, and Gorosaurus proceed to beat the living **** out of him. Ghidorah dies shortly after.

Godzilla changed the tides. Gorosaurus certainly helped, but Earth's monsters needed Godzilla to win. While Gorosaurus's Kangaroo Kick brought Ghidorah down, there are many factors explaining why Ghidorah couldn't get up again. One is because a bunch of monsters were chewing on his limbs. The other involves the part where Godzilla is stomping on Ghidorah's neck so hard, blood was spraying out of his mouth.

So yeah... giving Gorosaurus most of the credit is an exaggeration.

Why are you claiming Gorosaurus's Kangaroo Kick sealed the deal? Did he break Ghidorah's spine? Did he cause an internal injury? Because it's funny how you're eager to use this as a defense yet completely ignore (and refute) Monster X clearly making Godzilla's arms go crunchtwistsnap when he lifted his wrists up.

1. Really now? He would?
2. Really? So you question me later how I know a kick from MX won't floor Goro and yet you tell me a bite from a dinosaur capable of dragging down the first kaiju powerhouse with his jaws won't hurt a monster that was never shown to be a damage absorber like said original powerhouse?

1) He let KG go. Why wouldn't he let MX go?
2) Yes, the bite dragged KG down. It didn't injure him. Dragging MX down won't win him the battle. He'd need to injure him with those jaws. Gorosaurus doesn't have the feats to backup what you're selling.

Except there's also that entire scene when Ozaki and the Xillian are fighting and it shows Godzilla STILL battering Monster X, in the SAME position, ten minutes after they fall.

Sorry, I'm reading what that fight is telling me.

Sorry, but unless we see this happening for ten minutes straight, you're making things up.

It'd be like me claiming Monster X broke free of Godzilla's hold, and blasted him in the chest. Monster X fought to his feet, bashing Godzilla's face in with incredible strength! Both monsters traded blows for several minutes before Godzilla tackled him to the ground and proceeded to pound his face in--which is coincidentally being filmed.

I can't claim any of that happened because we didn't see it. Just like how you can't claim Monster X really was lying down getting his face punched for ten minutes straight, because we didn't see it happen that long. We see this happening to MX for several seconds. That's all we have.

And, again, I really don't care if people think its playing favorites or not. It's an annoyance more than anything.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't bother. Admitting otherwise is an annoyance in itself. So don't try and make that claim or we're done.

That's good for human fighters and all... And would be a VERY valid point...

Except Monster X has freaking lasers. In his eyes.

So it's okay to use physics to discuss these fights...

...But it's not okay to use real fighters to discuss these fights? Hell, you're basically saying it's okay and not okay to use physics to discuss these fights. That's not helping your argument one bit.

Are you seriously telling me just about every kaiju have gotten out of similar situations just fine? Examples please.

[The Great MM]

GOROSAURUS WINS
FLAWLESS VICTORY

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/069/1/1/Gorosaurus_pinup_by_KaijuSamurai.jpg

[Tomzilla]

What's that from?

[Mecha74]

What's that from?

If you mean the art check out more here...

http://www.mattfrankart.com/[/URL] (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geuu7IAUhMGh8ADrxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnZlZnR lBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=11gsu8h1f/EXP=1279873864/**http%3a//www.mattfrankart.com/)

And on deviant art. Here are two of my favorites.

[URL]http://kaijusamurai.deviantart.com/art/Fire-and-Earth-FCTW-140024564?q=sort%3Atime+favby%3AMecha74&qo=0

http://kaijusamurai.deviantart.com/art/MechaGodzilla-vs-Mechanikong-170518217?q=sort%3Atime+favby%3AMecha74&qo=1

Apologies for getting off topic.