14. King Ghidorah (GMK) and Mothra (GMK) vs. King Kong (Toho)

[Battle Master]

King Ghidorah (GMK) (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20919) and Mothra (GMK) (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20917)
vs.
King Kong (Toho) (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21129)
-
Battlefield: Shanghai (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showpost.php?p=333121&postcount=35)

[The Great MM]

This is both a hilarious and a sad match. There's not much Mothra could do here. She could do her stinger thing, but it won't down Kong. And her habit of getting close to an opponent to help her friend will get her torn apart by Kong. Ghidorah is where this gets funny...

'Cause his entire electric shock stuff just went out the window and Kong caught it.

The great ape is going to pummel these two into oblivion.

Winner: King Kong

[Husnock]

This may be the first time one of those GFW air battleships was worth something.

The Karyu is gonna go after Kong, 'cuz he's a priority (being NOT a good guy). And I don't see the big ugly ape taking too well to those missile barrages. OR being able to do something about it the way Ang did.

[Hybrid Gojira]

'Cause his entire electric shock stuff just went out the window and Kong caught it.

The great ape is going to pummel these two into oblivion.

Winner: King Kong

That is actually an interesting point, but we don't really know what kind of energy KG is emitting. It looks like electricity, but that doesn't mean it is.

But if what you propose were true, yeah, you made a good stand for Kong. Mothra is dead up close, though those stingers may be painful for Kong.

[The Great MM]

That is actually an interesting point, but we don't really know what kind of energy KG is emitting. It looks like electricity, but that doesn't mean it is.


... Thunder Bite. Lightning.

It was even brought up in the movie how souls are a form of electricity.

[Hybrid Gojira]

... Thunder Bite. Lightning.

It was even brought up in the movie how souls are a form of electricity.

Ah, yeah I remember that now.

Touche'

[Orga777]

Wow. This match is closer than you all think. It all depends whether MOTHRA can damaeg Kong enough with her stingers enough before Ghidorah's bites come into play. Those stingers were able to make GMK Godzilla stumble. Considering Kong is wet paper on the defensive side of things, I don't see why the stingers won't have an even worse effect on him.

Yes, the Bites from Ghids will charge Kong, but he really has no way to stop Mothra. Going with the GMK Duo by a small margin right now.

Leaning: GMK Mothra and GMK Ghidorah

[KaijuKing]

Originally posted by Orga777:
Yes, the Bites from Ghids will charge Kong, but he really has no way to stop Mothra.


He doesn't? Why? Mothra is primarily a close-quarter fighter, and when she tries to go close with Kong...he'll tear her to shreds. And while the stingers might normally bother Kong, once he gets charged they will likely just bounce off. Godzilla's fire sent him running for the hills before the lightning strike, but afterwards, he took it to the chest and barely slowed down.

But I think the Karyu might be the deciding factor here. Even supercharged, I don't know if Kong can stand up to three enemies at once.

Still, he has a solid chance. This could go either way, but I think Kong has the edge due to two of the enemies being nearly useless against him.

[Zardac the Great]

I'm going with Team Good here, and I'm doing it because of the Karyu.

It will only attack Kong, Kong won't be able to reach it, there aren't any rocks to throw, and I don't see him standing up to the ship's attacks.

All the good guys need to do is to fly around and not get caught by the monkey. Of course, they won't do that, but I think the battle will go on for long enough that the Karyu will cut him down like a squadron of navy pilots.



edit: And if he decided to climb a tower with some girl and gets rammed by either flyer, the fight will come to a fitting conclusion.

[Seer235]

I think people may be writing Mothra's stingers off a little too easy. When they hit Godzilla, you saw his hid smoke, and even though his hide wasn't really penetrated, it did enough to stun him to let Mothra knock him over with a flyby. King Kong doesn't have nearly as strong a hide as Godzilla does, so I could see the effect being much worse on King Kong.

Still, gonna have to think about this due to the electricity thing.

[Zardac the Great]

There were also sparks (brief flashes, really) where the stingers hit him.

I see the stingers as being a powerful attack in this case, but probably not enough to take down Kong with the one use they seem to have.

[MirrenDono]

This is King Ghidorah, am I right? Not Ghidorah, who was only capable of using electric bites?

If this is the same King Ghidorah who has the ability to fire out his energy bolts, what's to say that KG won't be using those initially?

I think he will, and Kong's gonna go up in smoke.

[Hybrid Gojira]

This is King Ghidorah, am I right? Not Ghidorah, who was only capable of using electric bites?

If this is the same King Ghidorah who has the ability to fire out his energy bolts, what's to say that KG won't be using those initially?

I think he will, and Kong's gonna go up in smoke.

I think the energy is the same for both attacks Mirren.

So..

Kong gets a power up thanks to KG.

[MirrenDono]

Why exactly would normal electricity amplify Goji's beam to the point of the Gorath Explosion out of Final Wars?

I seriously doubt Ghidorah's energy is the same exact thing as what Kong got struck with during a thunderstorm or was chewing on from powerlines.

[Hybrid Gojira]

I'm wondering for those who are leaning Kong - if you leave the electricity thing out of it for now, how would you vote?

Mothra's stingers and ability to fly would make it hard for Kong to do much. Ghidorah *did manage to wrestle Godzilla and keep him at terms for a little bit. Kong is strong, but does he have the ability to fight both monsters at once?

[The Great MM]

Why exactly would normal electricity amplify Goji's beam to the point of the Gorath Explosion out of Final Wars?

'Cause the script called for it. Why does atomic energy absorbed from a submarine give Godzilla the ability to fire a nuke-strength beam?

'Cause the script called for it.

[MirrenDono]

Says the guy who tried to convince people that X and Goji weren't within the explosion after their beam lock.

Just because it was yellow and surged through Goji doesn't make it electricity.

[KaijuKing]

Originally posted by Hybrid Gojira:
I'm wondering for those who are leaning Kong - if you leave the electricity thing out of it for now, how would you vote?



Assuming that Ghidorah is in Flightless Disgrace form, than I'd still give Kong the edge. As I recall, Ghid was very slow and sluggish on the ground, whereas Kong was fairly fast-moving. Further compounding Ghid's dilemma is the fact that Kong is quite adept at employing cover and weapons against his enemies. And this fight is in a city, with all kinds of cover and ammo for Kong to throw. He shouldn't have much trouble softening Ghid up from a distance, then going in close to wring the stupid thing's necks.

Mothra is still no serious threat. We have to assume that her stingers are a one-time deal, and we really have no way to know how much damage they might do to Kong. But if he survives those, all he has to do is wait for Mothra to come in close, then he rips her apart.

So, again, Karyu is the only serious threat here. Unless Kong can down it by throwing a post office or something...

I'm still leaning towards Kong. He's smart enough to figure this out.

[The Great MM]

Says the guy who tried to convince people that X and Goji weren't within the explosion after their beam lock.

I love you too, Mirren. Let's hook up something, 'mkay?

Just because it was yellow and surged through Goji doesn't make it electricity.

Indeed. Just because Rodan LOOKS like he's flying doesn't actually mean he is. :hmmm:

[MirrenDono]

Ah, okay, so pretty much every single ROM Kaiju has an electricity-based attack? Same with Heisi Goji and Spacegodzilla? Because they have attacks that form jagged bolts and burn/zap the oppposing Kaiju?

That's never been the case with Ghidorahs, not matter how much their attacks looks like electricity.

[Hybrid Gojira]

I love you too, Mirren. Let's hook up something, 'mkay?

I saw what you originally wrote. I wonder why you changed it? ;)

You're argument about "the script" is absurd, though I do think it is possible for KG's attacks to be electricity based. Kumonga was thrown over the horizon because the "script" called for it, wasn't he? And did you accept that? Nope. Oh noes, I can play that card, too. Be consistent instead of picking and choosing your antics to get under people's skin.

KG can fly and so does Mothra. Kong's antics in combat might have great strength, but Mothra's stingers and KG's decent ability in melee make for a really cool battle.

Going with Mothra and KG, even if Kong is charged.

[The Great MM]

That's never been the case with Ghidorahs, not matter how much their attacks looks like electricity.

The Gravity Bolts? Not so much.

The second attack? First off, look at the damn name. THUNDER Bite. Then let's rewind to previously in the movie in which the hot Japanese girl with orange hair even brought up how spirits are a form of electricity. And what is GMK Ghidorah? Virtually a spirit back in its original body.

Ah, okay, so pretty much every single ROM Kaiju has an electricity-based attack? Same with Heisi Goji and Spacegodzilla?


With Mothra Leo I really wouldn't be shocked. SpaceGodzilla and Godzilla? I don't know, there's no evidence to them. It was actually stated in GMK that souls are a form of electricity and since the guardians are virtually just revived souls...

I saw what you originally wrote. I wonder why you changed it?

Yeah, I remembered I can't get away with as much here as I can TK.

You're argument about "the script" is absurd,

Duh. I thought it was pretty obvious it was a joke.

[Inferno Rodan]

LOL @ all of you saying the Karyu will hurt Kong in any way. You people do realize that its primary weapon is an ELECTRICAL BEAM, yes? If anything, it'll only power him up faster.

And while KG's Gravity Beams are, y'know, Gravity Beams, his bites are called Sanda/Thunder Spark for a reason. They're electrical.

So yeah, Kong wins this match 'cause 2 of his 3 opponents are just going to be juicing him up.

[Husnock]

LOL @ all of you saying the Karyu will hurt Kong in any way. You people do realize that its primary weapon is an ELECTRICAL BEAM, yes? If anything, it'll only power him up faster.

Whoops. Thought this was the one with the missile ball. I'm just mixing flying things up left and right this year.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
The second attack? First off, look at the damn name. THUNDER Bite.

Thunder isn't electricity, it's a sound.

It was just used to describe the bite because it sounds cool and the attack damages an opponent like electricity would.


Then let's rewind to previously in the movie in which the hot Japanese girl with orange hair even brought up how spirits are a form of electricity. And what is GMK Ghidorah? Virtually a spirit back in its original body.

But he's still a phyiscal being, not the spirit itself.

And, as someone who knows quite a bit about Japanese mythology, I can safely say that you'd be foolish to listen to that girl, who isn't all that knowledgeable of the topic, since it's complete bullshit that the Japanese spirits are a form of electricity. The word 'spirit' is not as general as it in other mythology or religion, there are all kinds of different spirits in Japan, and most have nothing to do with electricity.

[The Great MM]

Thunder isn't electricity, it's a sound.

It was just used to describe the bite because it sounds cool and the attack damages an opponent like electricity would.


Oops. I'm sorry. I only listed part of its official name...

Thunder Spark Electric Bite.

But he's still a phyiscal being, not the spirit itself.

That's like saying all the scientists stating how Godzilla is a mutation spawned by raidiation doesn't mean his beam is radiation.

Uh-Huh.

And, as someone who knows quite a bit about Japanese mythology, I can safely say that you'd be foolish to listen to that girl, who isn't all that knowledgeable of the topic, since it's complete bullshit that the Japanese spirits are a form of electricity.

And I like to say I'm an expert on Big Foots and can tell you all the horror movie big foots are nothing like what a real one would be...

Doesn't stop the movie Big Foots from being Big Foots.

Real Japanese Mythology. Movie Japanese Mythology. Two different things.

The word 'spirit' is not as general as it in other mythology or religion, there are all kinds of different spirits in Japan, and most have nothing to do with electricity.

Most, huh? Not all? So why can't Ghidorah's spirit, a spirit of dragon that spews lightning-LIKE bolts and has a Thunder Spark ELECTRIC Bite, not have a connection to electricity again?

[Zardac the Great]

Okay. Yeah.

This isn't Godzilla Unleashed. Monsters can't pick up buildings and throw them like rocks. In real life, and very likely in the movies, buildings crumble if you attempt to pick them up.

Oh, and in Final Wars, the masers (or was it phasers?) act like an AZC. Remember Manda?

"Fire. Maser."

**Gotengo fires its energy weapon, which freezes Manda into a statue.**

**Gotengo drills Manda into oblivion**

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

I agree that Mothras stingers will be beyond effective on Kong. However, Mothra consistently comes to the aid of an opponent when it's two-on-one. She acts as a support, but isn't the main brawler. She'll let Ghidorah be the punching bag, who is actually super-charging Kong, then fly in to defend. Then have to deal with a very angry and very much super-powered Gorilla.

Winner: Kong

[SuperXAsh]

And why isn't Kong considered a good guy??? O.o

Seriously, explain that. He's taken from his home by a buncha greedy idiots (or an evil doctor) looking to exploit him (or throw him at Godzilla, who WAS the villain in the movie) but of course escapes (like just about every Kong) and HE'S THE ******* HERE??? >.>;;;

I'm going with Kong as the winner, because as stated, he's just going to be juicing up more than a major league baseball player, and I don't care what you say, both of these kaiju are going to be getting close to him at some point (cuz they're either thick and/or noble) and a super-juiced up Kong is going to tear them to shreds, or at the very least pummel them senseless.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
Oops. I'm sorry. I only listed part of its official name...

Thunder Spark Electric Bite.

You mean what Toho Kingdom put on their website?


That's like saying all the scientists stating how Godzilla is a mutation spawned by raidiation doesn't mean his beam is radiation.

Uh-Huh.

Radiation and radiation within a body are both physical.

Spiritual =/= physical.

In other words, a spirit isn't physical.


And I like to say I'm an expert on Big Foots and can tell you all the horror movie big foots are nothing like what a real one would be...

Doesn't stop the movie Big Foots from being Big Foots.

Real Japanese Mythology. Movie Japanese Mythology. Two different things.

So you're going to trust some dumb bimbo news reporter that only started learning anything about Japanese spirits a few days before the Yamato Guardians showed up in the film? Someone who has NO CREDABILITY when it comes to describing what the Yamato Guardians actually are?

No, MM, no one would actually be dumb enough to do that.


Most, huh? Not all? So why can't Ghidorah's spirit, a spirit of dragon that spews lightning-LIKE bolts and has a Thunder Spark ELECTRIC Bite, not have a connection to electricity again?

Because the electric spirits are a specific type, like how a Kistune is specifically is a fox spirit. They're called Dians.

Ghidorah is not a fox. He's not a Kitsune. Ghidorah is not a ghost of electricity. He's not a Dian.

[Tomzilla]

Since we see Yuri reading a bunch of books, it's heavily implied her dialogue was inspired by what she read. And nothing in the film debunks what she had to say, so I see no reason to discredit her here. And really, the movie went on to create its own mythology.

Yuri: "If spirits are another form of electricity, maybe there's a way for them to be stored in stone."

This is true when Ghidorah reunites with his missing stone piece. This allows him to fire those electric beams of his, which he'd start with in the beginning of this fight because he's at full power. Not that it'd help if since King Kong draws power from electricity, so he's totally screwed the moment he moves in close enough for Kong to grab him.

The only real case one could make is understand the difference between Ghidorah's electric bites and electric beams. Godzilla didn't absorb the former. He did absorb the latter. Why? Well, chalk it up to plot device. But perhaps someone could provide a better explanation.

Off topic-

What's interesting is how the Yamato Guardians appear to be possessed by good spirits (the non-vengeful ones controlling Godzilla). So later on after Ghidorah is vanquished, they try to pour their energies into Godzilla. They tried to cleanse him of those angry spirits. It didn't work.

[MirrenDono]

Whatever she was reading then wasn't legit Japanese mythology. It was made-up stuff for the film that we as the audience have nothing to study upon or observe. There's no way for us to tell exactly what it is or what kind of sources she was reading from. To take her word for it so blindly, when we have little to no facts about the situation, is just silly.

Even if Ghidorah's bite-shock is composed of electricity (which I could admit, if proven), his energy bolts damn sure aren't 100% composed of it. They're packing some kind of energy that enhanced Goji's beam into something worse than the Spiral Ray, and that kind of energy will massacre Kong.

[The Great MM]

You mean what Toho Kingdom put on their website?

That stuff that comes directly from the books licensed by Toho?

Pretty much.

Radiation and radiation within a body are both physical.

Spiritual =/= physical.

In other words, a spirit isn't physical.


Ghost Busters and the Ectoplasm would like to have a word with you.

different things. So you're going to trust some dumb bimbo news reporter that only started learning anything about Japanese spirits a few days before the Yamato Guardians showed up in the film? Someone who has NO CREDABILITY when it comes to describing what the Yamato Guardians actually are?

As TZ said, she had a book. An ancient book that came from a DEAD JAPANESE DUDE WHO CAME BACK FROM THE GRAVE AND HE WAS VERY MUCH PHYSICAL.

Because the electric spirits are a specific type, like how a Kistune is specifically is a fox spirit. They're called Dians.

'Cept in teh movie world.

Ghidorah is not a fox. He's not a Kitsune. Ghidorah is not a ghost of electricity. He's not a Dian.

Do you REALLY think the makers of GMK really cared that much to dive that deep into mythology? I don't think so considering Ghidorah is suppose to be Orochi or something... Yeeaaaah.

Even if Ghidorah's bite-shock is composed of electricity (which I could admit, if proven), his energy bolts damn sure aren't 100% composed of it.

I NEVER said they were. All sources I've found (Toho Kingdom and otherwise. IE: books) list them as Gravity Beams.

They're packing some kind of energy that enhanced Goji's beam into something worse than the Spiral Ray, and that kind of energy will massacre Kong.

They super-charged him. For all we know, Ghidorah's bolts simply enter one's body and give them constipation. Godzilla's body combined the energy with his own, making his uber. You can't judge the GMK Gravity Beams at all.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
That stuff that comes directly from the books licensed by Toho?

Pretty much.

Yeah, that's why I trust it.


Ghost Busters and the Ectoplasm would like to have a word with you.

....

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

But seriously, no.


As TZ said, she had a book. An ancient book that came from a DEAD JAPANESE DUDE WHO CAME BACK FROM THE GRAVE AND HE WAS VERY MUCH PHYSICAL.

If she got the "spirits are a form of electricity" crap from the book, why did she say it that way? Why didn't she say "The Yamato Spirits are a form of electricity?"

Because whatever she was reading is nothing we can ever deduce, we have no idea what she was reading or what any of it was actually saying. She is not a solid source of knowledge on Japanese spirits; I don't care what she read, she spent about a day with it and just went along with everything as it happened.


'Cept in teh movie world.

Which is some crack-pot mythology that's being told to us by a girl who was clueless about the topic prior to the film's happenings.

If 'spirits are a form of electricity', why didn't the other monsters display any features of electricity? Or better yet, how the **** is something a spirit if its made up of physical, real-world particles?


Do you REALLY think the makers of GMK really cared that much to dive that deep into mythology? I don't think so considering Ghidorah is suppose to be Orochi or something... Yeeaaaah.

Orochi is hardly the only famous dragon out of Japanese mythology. There are numerous multi-headed dragons that Ghidorah was probably based upon instead of the one with 8 heads.


They super-charged him. For all we know, Ghidorah's bolts simply enter one's body and give them constipation. Godzilla's body combined the energy with his own, making his uber. You can't judge the GMK Gravity Beams at all.

That's feigning ignorance and stupidity.

We can at least make the highly educated assumption that they contain explosive, burning properties.

That is at least a somewhat intelligent course of thought.

[The Great MM]

Yeah, that's why I trust it.

I'm sure. But then again, I hear that just shouting "NO! SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT!" when the characters actually bring this up in the movie itself.

If she got the "spirits are a form of electricity" crap from the book, why did she say it that way? Why didn't she say "The Yamato Spirits are a form of electricity?"

'Cause I don't think the makers foresaw a fat nerd and a skinny nerd debating something as worthless as that.

Which is some crack-pot mythology that's being told to us by a girl who was clueless about the topic prior to the film's happenings.

'Cept, ya' know, the book of GMK-mythology.

If 'spirits are a form of electricity', why didn't the other monsters display any features of electricity?

'Cause the script didn't call for it...

Would we even be having this discussion if Baragon shot lightning from his horn and Mothra shot lightning from her ***?

Or better yet, how the **** is something a spirit if its made up of physical, real-world particles?

Movie.

Orochi is hardly the only famous dragon out of Japanese mythology. There are numerous multi-headed dragons that Ghidorah was probably based upon instead of the one with 8 heads.


'Cept, ya' know, they even brought up Orochi.

That's feigning ignorance and stupidity.

Okay Mr. "Monster X is strong!"

We can at least make the highly educated assumption that they contain explosive, burning properties.


No we can't. 'Cause they didn't explode when they hit Godzilla. Nor did they burn him or even make his flesh smoke.

That is at least a somewhat intelligent course of thought.

The more and more I see your posts, Mirren, the bigger the gap I'm seeing between your name and the word "intelligent."

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
I'm sure. But then again, I hear that just shouting "NO! SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT!" when the characters actually bring this up in the movie itself.

It's an extremely vague point that's never clarified in the film, and makes no sense any way you look at it.

If TK got it the name from an official book that has it in printing, that's very easy to believe.


'Cause I don't think the makers foresaw a fat nerd and a skinny nerd debating something as worthless as that.

Or because it's a bunch of bullshit and you're still buying into it like its divine doctrine.


'Cept, ya' know, the book of GMK-mythology.

Which the audience barely so much as gets a glance at.


'Cause the script didn't call for it...

And the script didn't call for it because even the script knew that Yamato or real Japanese spirits aren't composed of electricity.


Movie.

It's also a hypocrisy.


'Cept, ya' know, they even brought up Orochi.

Another **** up on their part.

What more do you need to be convinced that those people don't know what they're talking about?


Okay Mr. "Monster X is strong!"

As strong as I am a skinny nerd, apparently.


No we can't. 'Cause they didn't explode when they hit Godzilla. Nor did they burn him or even make his flesh smoke.

What other properties would give his beam so much explosive, burning power?


The more and more I see your posts, Mirren, the bigger the gap I'm seeing between your name and the word "intelligent."

Are you fat enough to fill that gap?

[The Great MM]

It's an extremely vague point that's never clarified in the film, and makes no sense any way you look at it.


Why does Ghidorah have Gravity Bolts? Why does Gamera have plasma fire balls?

Would you doubt that Ghidorah's bolts DON'T have something to do with gravity?

Would you doubt Gamera's fireballs don't have something to do with plasma?

And yet BOTH of these attacks have "gravity" and "plasma" in the names.

Or because it's a bunch of bullshit and you're still buying into it like its divine doctrine.

I'm not the one trying to prove a negative, Mirren.

Which the audience barely so much as gets a glance at.

Except they get more of a glance at it then never getting a glance at. We got more evidence on our side.

And the script didn't call for it because even the script knew that Yamato or real Japanese spirits aren't composed of electricity.

Not according to sexy orange-hair chick with the GMK book of mythology.

Mmmm... Yuri.

It's also a hypocrisy.


Hypocrisy in a movie!? NO WAY!

Another **** up on their part.

GMK Mythology.

What more do you need to be convinced that those people don't know what they're talking about?

Written confession by the cast in full character mode would help.

As strong as I am a skinny nerd, apparently

Wait. Do you think I was calling you the fat nerd?

What other properties would give his beam so much explosive, burning power?


Taco Bell for one.

But seriously? The same excuse that allows Godzilla to gain regenerative abilities from lightning in the Showa era.

Are you fat enough to fill that gap?

Do you want to take a second and look at what you just asked me. Just a second?

What gap are we talking about here, Mirren? Or, more to the point, WHO'S gap? 'cause it kinda' depends on how blown out that gap is, not to mention how used.

[Inferno Rodan]

Methinks Mirren is having trouble accepting the fact that things can differ between movies and reality. You can't just ignore the stated facts of a movie universe because they differ from reality. If spirits are made of electricity in the GMK-verse, then dammit, they're made of electricity.

[Tomzilla]

Whatever she was reading then wasn't legit Japanese mythology.

It is in the GMK universe.

There are plenty of movies/shows/books that 'Did Not Do Their Research'. And in our world, the information they provided is false information. But its a fact in their world, which is where we draw our information from in these discussions. Our world takes a backseat.

You're better off trying to prove Kong couldn't absorb the amount of electricity King Ghidorah discharges, since it is immense, and the great ape has never absorbed that much.

[SuperXAsh]

It is in the GMK universe.

There are plenty of movies/shows/books that 'Did Not Do Their Research'. And in our world, the information they provided is false information. But its a fact in their world, which is where we draw our information from in these discussions. Our world takes a backseat.

You're better off trying to prove Kong couldn't absorb the amount of electricity King Ghidorah discharges, since it is immense, and the great ape has never absorbed that much.

But we don't know how much electricity Kong can absorb, there's no stated limit. A few lightning bolts made him capable of chucking Godzilla around by his tail, who knows what all this electrical input will make him capable of?

[Angirus7899]

interesting fight. Kong does get stronger by lightning which doesnt help ghidorah but i wonder though if ghidorah latches on to kong if he can hold him while mothra hits kong. either way i say the duo may be screwed because kong is a beast when he is charged the only way kong will lose is if the Karyu downs him

Edge King Kong Unless Karyu beats him

[KaijuKing]

Frankly, I think the whole argument about Ghidorah being electric or not is fairly irrelevant. With this fight taking place in a city, Kong will stumble into some power lines or something sooner or later. Or, as previously stated, Karyu's maser will do the job. He'll find some way to get a jump-start without Ghidorah.

[Burkion]

At which point BOTH GMK Ghidorah and Mothra are screwed as hell.

Hmm. Very interesting.

I honestly didn't consider Charged Kong being a factor in this fight.

Pleasant surprise.

[Zardac the Great]

Frankly, I think the whole argument about Ghidorah being electric or not is fairly irrelevant. With this fight taking place in a city, Kong will stumble into some power lines or something sooner or later. Or, as previously stated, Karyu's maser will do the job. He'll find some way to get a jump-start without Ghidorah.



In GFW, masers showed freezing powers, not electrical ones.

[BS Digital Q]

In GFW, masers showed freezing powers, not electrical ones.Only the Gotengo drill maser. All the others were more conventional, or did you miss Ang dodging one causing completely mundane destruction, or Ebirah getting chewed up by ridiculously overpowered hand-held masers?

[Inferno Rodan]

In GFW, masers showed freezing powers, not electrical ones.
The Karyu's beam weapon is stated by official sources to be electrical.

Also, the Gotengo's "Maser" is likewise stated in official sources to be an Absolute Zero Cannon. Calling it a Maser was basically an error in the dialogue.

[The Great MM]

But we don't know how much electricity Kong can absorb, there's no stated limit. A few lightning bolts made him capable of chucking Godzilla around by his tail, who knows what all this electrical input will make him capable of?

And there's no stated limit either.

And a SINGLE bolt of lightning as about a billion volts per strike. Kong took repeated bolts.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Leaving the whole "can Kong absorb KG's electric beams" thing aside, there are a few things to consider here.

Kong IS strong, but he weighs a fifth more than Godzilla.

KG weighs the same as Kong (more than Showa Goji) and wrestled GMK Godzilla, who weighs more than KG himself.

Basically, KG IS also pretty strong and he's not epic fail at melee. Biting Kong would be effective.

But aside from that, honestly Kong is really boned here if he can't absorb the electric attacks because BOTH Mothra and KG fly. And have ranged attacks.

Don't write them off.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
Why does Ghidorah have Gravity Bolts? Why does Gamera have plasma fire balls?

Would you doubt that Ghidorah's bolts DON'T have something to do with gravity?

Would you doubt Gamera's fireballs don't have something to do with plasma?

And yet BOTH of these attacks have "gravity" and "plasma" in the names.

What does that have to do with spiritual entities being composed of the physical, earthly element known as electricity?


I'm not the one trying to prove a negative, Mirren.

You've done that more than anyone on this site.

And you've done while arguing against visual evidence, not some stupid ho that learns about mythology only over the course of the film, and for all we known could be reading a book composed of Jughead comic strips.


Except they get more of a glance at it then never getting a glance at. We got more evidence on our side.

Rephrase that.


Not according to sexy orange-hair chick with the GMK book of mythology.

Real men don't listen to women so obediently.


GMK Mythology.

So let me get something straight, you're willing to go along with all of the nonsense that GMK spouts, but you're of the mindset that Final Goji's Kumonga toss and the Gorath Crater don't exist because of their own nonsensical flaws?

Let me ask everyone here who has decided to play favorites with which feats and instances to take at face value-

Where does it stop?


Wait. Do you think I was calling you the fat nerd?

You sure as **** better not have.


But seriously? The same excuse that allows Godzilla to gain regenerative abilities from lightning in the Showa era.

He had regenerative properties before he was struck by lightning.


Do you want to take a second and look at what you just asked me. Just a second?

What gap are we talking about here, Mirren? Or, more to the point, WHO'S gap? 'cause it kinda' depends on how blown out that gap is, not to mention how used.

Apparently the easiest way to offend you to is to call you fat.

You're just a fat kid. Fatty fat fat fat fat fat.



Originally posted by Tomzilla
It is in the GMK universe.

There are plenty of movies/shows/books that 'Did Not Do Their Research'. And in our world, the information they provided is false information. But its a fact in their world, which is where we draw our information from in these discussions. Our world takes a backseat.

This point-


So let me get something straight, you're willing to go along with all of the nonsense that GMK spouts, but you're of the mindset that Final Goji's Kumonga toss and the Gorath Crater don't exist because of their own nonsensical flaws?

Let me ask everyone here who has decided to play favorites with which feats and instances to take at face value-

Where does it stop?

Because I know that you're guilty of the same thing.

[The Great MM]

What does that have to do with spiritual entities being composed of the physical, earthly element known as electricity?

It doesn't. It has to do with the name of the attack.

Thunder Spark Electric Bite.

You've done that more than anyone on this site.


Prove a negative? I'll take that as an awesome compliment then.

And you've done while arguing against visual evidence, not some stupid ho that learns about mythology only over the course of the film, and for all we known could be reading a book composed of Jughead comic strips.

You have visual evidence that the GMK Ghidorah spirit ISN'T electricity? OMFG!? WHERE!?

Rephrase that.

Except they get more of a glance at it then never getting a glance at. Me, IR, and Tommy-Boy got more evidence on our side.

Happy?

Real men don't listen to women so obediently.


If you ever gotten laid, you'd realize that there's massive benefits to doing such a thing.

So let me get something straight, you're willing to go along with all of the nonsense that GMK spouts, but you're of the mindset that Final Goji's Kumonga toss and the Gorath Crater don't exist because of their own nonsensical flaws?

I'm going off more on the name of the attack more than anything. I NEVER said all of GMK Ghidorah's powers are electric-based. Just quoted what the movie said and what the official stats call the bite.

You're the one going "OMFG! HE'S NOT ELECTRIC 'CAUSE JAPANESE SPIRITS AREN'T ELECTRIC -- DESPITE THERE OBVIOUSLY BEING ELECTRIC SPIRITS FROM WHAT I SAID EARLIER, BUT JUST IGNORE THAT 'CAUSE IT DOESN'T HELP MY ARGUMENTS AGAINST YOU!"

And the GMK electric spirit thing doesn't effect how Ghidorah fights or shows strength. Nor is it loony toons physics like the FW **** which you listed.

He had regenerative properties before he was struck by lightning.


Yes, he did. But the electricity super-ized it.

Apparently the easiest way to offend you to is to call you fat.

You're just a fat kid. Fatty fat fat fat fat fat.

Actually not. This fat kid has gotten laid. The gap is a ******. I was asking you how blown out said ****** is. If ****** is over-used, it's like flying a plane into the grand canyon.

It went over your head.

[Tomzilla]

Apparently the easiest way to offend you to is to call you fat.

You're just a fat kid. Fatty fat fat fat fat fat.

:laugh:

This is made of win. ;)

This point-

Because I know that you're guilty of the same thing.

How so?

Personally, I don't accept GFW Godzilla throwing Kumonga into the horizon because the rest of the film contradicts it. But you're certainly welcome to use it because empirical evidence supports you 100%. It also supports me strangely enough. Obviously, some people like to act like some of these scenes never happened. They want to completely ignore it because it suits their argument. Believe me when I say, I try my best not to do the same.

And like I said a few posts ago, the GMK quote I gave is supported by the film. It isn't contradicted. If it was contradicted, I would've ignored it. Here's an example:

In Godzilla vs. Biollante, one of the scientists said the Super-X2 can reflect Godzilla's ray back at him 1,000 times stronger than its source (which is Godzilla's ray). This is clearly not the case otherwise Godzilla would've died and/or suffered superficial wounds of some kind. Therefore this quote is ignored and tossed up as hyperbole.

Yuri's quote about electricity being spirits, however, is acceptable because the film never contradicts it.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
It doesn't. It has to do with the name of the attack.

Thunder Spark Electric Bite.

(Isn't arguing that anymore. Hasn't been a couple posts now)


Prove a negative? I'll take that as an awesome compliment then.

No, ignored things that happened in the film because they wouldn't make sense according to our world.


You have visual evidence that the GMK Ghidorah spirit ISN'T electricity? OMFG!? WHERE!?

You don't need visual evidence to realize the silliness in actually believing Yuri that every last spirit is electricity. There is a laundary list of reasons, even from the film, that suggest it's not concrete at all.


If you ever gotten laid, you'd realize that there's massive benefits to doing such a thing.

You're right, there are.

For those men that can't get laid without sacrificing their nuts.


I'm going off more on the name of the attack more than anything. I NEVER said all of GMK Ghidorah's powers are electric-based. Just quoted what the movie said and what the official stats call the bite.

You're the one going "OMFG! HE'S NOT ELECTRIC 'CAUSE JAPANESE SPIRITS AREN'T ELECTRIC -- DESPITE THERE OBVIOUSLY BEING ELECTRIC SPIRITS FROM WHAT I SAID EARLIER, BUT JUST IGNORE THAT 'CAUSE IT DOESN'T HELP MY ARGUMENTS AGAINST YOU!"

And the GMK electric spirit thing doesn't effect how Ghidorah fights or shows strength. Nor is it loony toons physics like the FW **** which you listed.

It's just stupid to assume that what she said was true, because none of the other spirits displayed electric properties (and why wouldn't they if they were composed of electricity?), and what would be the point of becoming an entirely physical manifestation that is vulnerable to being destroyed by earthly objects if they're already in a physical form as it is(i.e, electricity)


Yes, he did. But the electricity super-ized it.

No, that just magnetized him.


Actually not. This fat kid has gotten laid. The gap is a ******. I was asking you how blown out said ****** is. If ****** is over-used, it's like flying a plane into the grand canyon.

It went over your head.

It's kinda difficult to understand your joke when there was no decent setup for it in the first place.

I mean, I normally don't expect a guy over 20 years old to bust out a ****** joke just for the sake of it, and expect it to be legit humor or a legit diss.



Originally posted by Tomzilla
And like I said a few posts ago, the GMK quote I gave is supported by the film. It isn't contradicted. If it was contradicted, I would've ignored it.

It's not blatantly contradicted by the film's world, but it's not supported at all. There are actually more things in the movie that would suggest it's either complete BS or horribly blown out of proportion, as I explained to MM.


In Godzilla vs. Biollante, one of the scientists said the Super-X2 can reflect Godzilla's ray back at him 1,000 times stronger than its source (which is Godzilla's ray). This is clearly not the case otherwise Godzilla would've died and/or suffered superficial wounds of some kind.

Though I would agree it's bogus, that's more because I prefer going with the more reasonable, likely scenario.

Because there is no irrefutable, concrete proof that those reflected beams were in fact not 1,000 times stronger. For all we know, Goji could be that damn tough.

[The Great MM]

No, ignored things that happened in the film because they wouldn't make sense according to our world.


And yet you actually use the GFW meteor scene.

Lol.

You don't need visual evidence to realize the silliness in actually believing Yuri that every last spirit is electricity. There is a laundary list of reasons, even from the film, that suggest it's not concrete at all.

That lists why GMK Ghidorah, a dragon that has lightning-like bolts and an electric bite ISN'T electric-based.

This I gotta' see.

You're right, there are.

For those men that can't get laid without sacrificing their nuts.

Usually women have a way of making all that better and bringing 'em back even bigger.

It's just stupid to assume that what she said was true, because none of the other spirits displayed electric properties

Because the script never called for them to do so for the billionth time. The Kamacuras are also a raidiation-spawned mutant and you don't see them launching atomic rays like Godzilla.

what would be the point of becoming an entirely physical manifestation that is vulnerable to being destroyed by earthly objects if they're already in a physical form as it is(i.e, electricity)

Probably the same reason the Japanese soldiers just didn't re-animate a bunch of dead corpses and go on a Romero Zombie Attack, which would be a much easier way to make the Japanese remember in dead Japanese soldiers are attacking the public, instead of a giant nuclear death lizard.

It's kinda difficult to understand your joke when there was no decent setup for it in the first place.

Uhh.... Gap.

mean, I normally don't expect a guy over 20 years old to bust out a ****** joke just for the sake of it, and expect it to be legit humor or a legit diss.

Don't know me that well then.

It also supports me strangely enough. Obviously, some people like to act like some of these scenes never happened. They want to completely ignore it because it suits their argument.

And debates in general. 'Cause nobodies going to sit there and tell me Monster X's beams, or Gigan's beams, both of which had no more destructive power than something like Grand Ghidorah's wing lightning, are more powerful than a meteor strike.

That isn't just dumb, that's stupid to actually even begin believing.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
And yet you actually use the GFW meteor scene.

Lol.

As I said in the other thread, widespread destruction was always consistent, and there's no logical reason to ignore that result.


That lists why GMK Ghidorah, a dragon that has lightning-like bolts and an electric bite ISN'T electric-based.

This I gotta' see.

Ghidorah, the physical manifestation that became a monster of GMK's earthly matter, or Ghidorah the other-worldy spirit that wasn't a physical being?

Because the second one wouldn't be composed of real-world electricity.


Usually women have a way of making all that better and bringing 'em back even bigger.

Why go through the trouble in the first place if you don't have to?


Because the script never called for them to do so for the billionth time.

And the script didn't call for it because what Yuri said was either complete BS, or it simply didn't apply to the Yamato spirits.


The Kamacuras are also a raidiation-spawned mutant and you don't see them launching atomic rays like Godzilla.

Yeah, but the whole reason they were grew so large was because of radiation. They displayed that radioactive quality that way.


Probably the same reason the Japanese soldiers just didn't re-animate a bunch of dead corpses and go on a Romero Zombie Attack, which would be a much easier way to make the Japanese remember in dead Japanese soldiers are attacking the public, instead of a giant nuclear death lizard.

Is that same reason that Yuri was spewing nonsense?


Uhh.... Gap.

Yeah.

There are a lot of different terms for ******, "gap" hardly being one of the most common.

[Hybrid Gojira]

I'm not sure whether to applaud Mirren for trying to prove MM wrong or put my eyes out for having read the last two pages. My brain hurts from the nonsense.

I'm just going to abstain since, having rewatched the Kong fight last night, the dude is impressively strong.


Even then, Ghidorah isn't the suck-fest people have made him out to be, plus he has Mothra along side him.


So there.

[Orga777]

Even then, Ghidorah isn't the suck-fest people have made him out to be, plus he has Mothra along side him.
So there.

:O NOW you say this? XD

*shocked*

[The Great MM]

Ghidorah, the physical manifestation that became a monster of GMK's earthly matter, or Ghidorah the other-worldy spirit that wasn't a physical being?

Because the second one wouldn't be composed of real-world electricity.


OR...

Ghidorah, the electric soul, which was released from its "statue CD thing" and back into its body that was frozen in nice.

Why go through the trouble in the first place if you don't have to?

You don't like getting laid?

And the script didn't call for it because what Yuri said was either complete BS, or it simply didn't apply to the Yamato spirits.

Actually the script DID call for it..
Hence why it happened.

Yeah, but the whole reason they were grew so large was because of radiation. They displayed that radioactive quality that way.


So... How do we know the electric souls of GMK didn't 'cause the cute little Baragon to grow in size and Mothra grow into her imago form?

We don't know what Baragon was like before he woke up.
We know Mothra was a larva.
We know Ghidorah wasn't anything different.

It did whatever to Baragon, allowed Mothra to grow, and gave Ghidorah his first round of powers.

Is that same reason that Yuri was spewing nonsense?

Actually complete opposite (Script didn't call for it). That and it would no longer be a Godzilla or kaiju movie..

It'd be Night before the Dawn of the Day of the Undead Japanese Soldiers or something.

[SpaceHunterM]

From now on I'm pretty sure all conversations between MM and Mirren are going to go like this


Fat
Virgin
Fat
Virgin
Fat
Virgin
Fat
Virgin
etc...

[Hybrid Gojira]

:O NOW you say this? XD

*shocked*

If I told you Ghidorah is one step above suck fest...would that help? :laugh:

Ghidorah did wrestle Godzilla, who weighs more than him (and more than Kong for that matter) and held his own. Against Kong, this is worth mentioning since Kong is purely melee when he fights, which is why I'd say they have a shot. If KG's attacks weren't electric in nature, Kong would get rolled. I have no idea if they are or not, so I just abstained (or will when the polls are up).

@MM - You know it is usually the people who talk about sex the most who have...not done it, either at all or not much.

Just saying.

[The Great MM]

@MM - You know it is usually the people who talk about sex the most who have...not done it, either at all or not much.


'Cept, ya' know, the ones that do. I'll admit it's been about 2 and a half months since I DID get laid last, however.

[Burkion]

Sure, GMK held his own.

If you call getting smacked around and *****slapped holding his own.

He's a regular Angirus that way.

[Orga777]

Sure, GMK held his own.

If you call getting smacked around and *****slapped holding his own.

He's a regular Angirus that way.

Thank you for just admitting to not watching the movie in at least four years with that statement. Because if you DID watch it, you would know that your comment is completely wrong.

Unlike Anguirus who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag, GMK Ghidorah more than once fought back GMK Godzilla in close quarters combat. The same Godzilla that tossed around Baragon with nothing but his arm strength, tail whipped Baragon a huge distance away, and plowed through a rockey hillside like it wasn't there.

[MirrenDono]

^ Yeah, you're hardly getting *****slapped when you're landing nearly the same number (maybe more depending on how you judge them) of blows on your opponent as you are. Granted, GMK Goji's were far more devastating, but most of Ghidorah's would've messed up a lot of Kaiju. They only appeared underwhelming because GMK Gojis is an outright monster.



Originally posted by MM
OR...

Ghidorah, the electric soul, which was released from its "statue CD thing" and back into its body that was frozen in nice.

Why would the electric soul require a physical body in the first place? It's just an infinitely weaker, more vulnerable physical manifestation.


You don't like getting laid?

As I said before, you don't need to sacrifice your balls to get laid.

Since we're still arguing this, you clearly haven't gotten laid without becoming a *****'s *****.


Actually the script DID call for it..
Hence why it happened.

You mean you agree that the script did call for Yuri saying bullshit?


So... How do we know the electric souls of GMK didn't 'cause the cute little Baragon to grow in size and Mothra grow into her imago form?

We don't know what Baragon was like before he woke up.
We know Mothra was a larva.
We know Ghidorah wasn't anything different.

No proof of it at all.


It did whatever to Baragon, allowed Mothra to grow, and gave Ghidorah his first round of powers.

That wasn't electricity.


Actually complete opposite (Script didn't call for it). That and it would no longer be a Godzilla or kaiju movie..

It'd be Night before the Dawn of the Day of the Undead Japanese Soldiers or something.

Again.

The script didn't call for it because Yuri wasn't proclaiming divine truth.

[The Great MM]

Why would the electric soul require a physical body in the first place? It's just an infinitely weaker, more vulnerable physical manifestation.

Why do the souls of dead Japanese soldiers possess a giant, nuclear-spawned death lizard that had nothing to do with their death in the first place?

Answer...

'Cause.

There's no answer to your question just like you have no evidence that the spirits aren't electricity besides relying on REAL WORLD MYTHOLOGY for a movie that made ITS OWN MYTHOLOGY. It's not the first movie that bends the "laws of mythology" to make its own story.

Just ask Ray Harryhausen about how he twists mythology.

Kanenko has a nasty habit of changing stuff for his series. Just ask the Heisei Gamera trilogy with its lack of real turtles which have been confirmed to NOT EXIST in his canon.

You mean you agree that the script did call for Yuri saying bullshit?

I actually had to go re-watch the scene and double check what she was saying 'cause I tend not to pay attention to what she, or any other human character besides Don Frye ('cause he's awesome) says in Godzilla movies.

So yes, the script DID call for her to say bullshit.
It just so happens nothing in the movie makes her bullshit wrong.

No proof of it at all.


No ****. Just like you have no proof at all that the GMK spirits AREN'T electricity despite the main character, armed with the mighty book of GMK mythology, stating they are.

The script didn't call for it because Yuri wasn't proclaiming divine truth.

For this debate...

GMK Book of Mythology > Our World Japanese Mythology.

I'm again going to fall back on another epic example of another movie twisting the "facts" of mythology: Jason and the Argonauts. Jason doesn't fight the Hydra in the Greek myth. Does that mean what Jason fights in the movie ISN'T the legendary hydra? Or is it just the creators of the movie bending and twisting the myth for the sake of whatever.

Mythology ISN'T real. You can bend and twist it all you want in movies, it doesn't make any difference.

Do you think angels actually possess people like demons do? You don't? Neither do I.
And yet they do it in the movie Legion. And they're still Christian Angels.

Do you think Jesus kills vampires?
I doubt it. And yet he does in Jesus Christ: Vampire Slayer.

Do you think the devil would turn a normal man into a *****in' motorcycle dude with a flaming skull?
I really doubt that to, but yet we have Ghost Rider.

Stop falling back on stupid logic and flaws in the movie's take on mythology when the main character has the very book of GMK mythology.

Or maybe I can just use this simple argument? Since mythology isn't real in our world. And it obviously is in the GMK world...
Our world has the "facts" WRONG on it.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
Why do the souls of dead Japanese soldiers possess a giant, nuclear-spawned death lizard that had nothing to do with their death in the first place?

Answer...

'Cause.

There's no answer to your question just like you have no evidence that the spirits aren't electricity besides relying on REAL WORLD MYTHOLOGY for a movie that made ITS OWN MYTHOLOGY. It's not the first movie that bends the "laws of mythology" to make its own story.

As well, I've relied on attributes from the film that suggest it to be highly sketchy, between the monsters and Yuri herself.


I actually had to go re-watch the scene and double check what she was saying 'cause I tend not to pay attention to what she, or any other human character besides Don Frye ('cause he's awesome) says in Godzilla movies.

So yes, the script DID call for her to say bullshit.
It just so happens nothing in the movie makes her bullshit wrong.

It's very unlikely even according to the movie.

But at least you have your priorities straight with Don Frye.


No ****. Just like you have no proof at all that the GMK spirits AREN'T electricity despite the main character, armed with the mighty book of GMK mythology, stating they are.

Given Yuri's unclear dialogue, and the facts from the film that would argue its legitimacy, it's very difficult to believe so much in a radical statement like that which is trying to prove something that is, when there's no evidence that supports that it is.

[The Great MM]

Given Yuri's unclear dialogue, and the facts from the film that would argue its legitimacy, it's very difficult to believe so much in a radical statement like that which is trying to prove something that is, when there's no evidence that supports that it is.

Except that Yuri has, and obviously read...

The
Book
of
GMK
Mythology.

[MirrenDono]

And in that one statement where she mentions the possibility of spirits being of electricity, she doesn't cite the Yamato Guardians. That's one of very few, if only, times where she doesn't refer to them specifically. Why the F would she suddenly avoid mentioning them directly when she does so all the frickin' time in the movie?

Maybe it's because the Yamato Guardians, minus Ghidorah's electrical bite, never displayed electrical properties.

Because their spirits are NOT a physical, earthly substance, even the movie says so through its events.

[The Great MM]

And in that one statement where she mentions the possibility of spirits being of electricity, she doesn't cite the Yamato Guardians. That's one of very few, if only, times where she doesn't refer to them specifically. Why the F would she suddenly avoid mentioning them directly when she does so all the frickin' time in the movie?

Maybe it's because the Yamato Guardians, minus Ghidorah's electrical bite, never displayed electrical properties.

Because their spirits are NOT a physical, earthly substance, even the movie says so through its events.

How do you know she's NOT just talking about the guardians. Has it ever crossed your mind that, JUST MAYBE, in the GMK-verse, spirits (all of them) ARE made of electricity?
Just like in Ghost Busters, spirits are made of ectoplasm.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Let's assume that Kong is powered up.

So what?

He becomes more aggressive, but he struggled to beat Showa Godzilla, who not only weighs less than him, but also has a weakness to electricity. Even though Kong can absorb and use the electricity as an attack, I don't think he amplifies it. Godzilla walked around and avoided electrical attacks, yet he never ran from Kong. Rather, Godzilla just charges at Kong repeatedly.

Therefore, I think that Kong's output of energy appears it will not overwhelm KG or Mothra. Kong has to beat both into submission to win this fight. They can both fly, and Mothra fires what appear to be piercing projectiles from her stinger. KG wrestled Godzilla, who is heavier, arguably stronger than Kong, fairly well.

Even when powered up, I'm leaning towards KG and MOthra.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
How do you know she's NOT just talking about the guardians. Has it ever crossed your mind that, JUST MAYBE, in the GMK-verse, spirits (all of them) ARE made of electricity?
Just like in Ghost Busters, spirits are made of ectoplasm.

Sure, it crossed my mind when the quote was brought to my attention, since I never noticed it before.

But then I went through the whole movie and the way the monsters acted, and Yuri's other dialogue, and there's too much in the film that suggests she was either mistaken, exaggerating, or not referring to the Yamato Guardians.

[The Great MM]

But then I went through the whole movie and the way the monsters acted, and Yuri's other dialogue, and there's too much in the film that suggests she was either mistaken, exaggerating, or not referring to the Yamato Guardians.

The way they acted?
So something that has a non-electric soul acts differently than something that does have an electric soul?

Can you give me some examples of this? I mean, does a dog have an electric soul 'cause a dog sure acts different than a dolphin, or is it vice versa?

[Tomzilla]

Whether or not Yuri is a bumbling fool or not is irrelevant. The source of her information is what matters. So is the Old Man--aka the ghost who wrote 'The Book of GMK Mythology'--a bumbling fool or is he someone whose competent? Because if you ask me, he knew what the hell he was talking about. He's also a ghost.

Finally, the spirits he was referring to (and in essence, the ones Yuri read about) are the human ones that embodied the Yamato Guardians. Whereas Godzilla was possessed by vengeful spirits, the Yamato Guardians were inspired by good ones.

Anyway, Hybrid brings up many good points. Even if Ghidorah's attacks are electrically based, there's no guarantee Kong will triumph over two strong opponents. So I'm leaning towards the Yamato Duo here.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
The way they acted?
So something that has a non-electric soul acts differently than something that does have an electric soul?

Can you give me some examples of this? I mean, does a dog have an electric soul 'cause a dog sure acts different than a dolphin, or is it vice versa?

Simply meant their attributes and abilities.

If they were electric souls, why wouldn't any of that carry over to their physical manifestations? Like at least Ghidorah got some of?

And then any time we actually see the spirits, which is mostly when they're going into another body, their physical contact doesn't suggest at all that they're electricity. If you had never heard that silly comment by Yuri, no one would ever think for a moment that those spirits were actually earthly electricity.

[The Great MM]

Simply meant their attributes and abilities.

If they were electric souls, why wouldn't any of that carry over to their physical manifestations? Like at least Ghidorah got some of?


If you believe in ghosts or spirits (I don't), then you'd think REAL spirits are made up of some sort of energy, spiritual or otherwise...

And yet you don't see us firing it from our eyes, teleporting with it, or breathing death rays composed of it.

If they were electric souls, why wouldn't any of that carry over to their physical manifestations? Like at least Ghidorah got some of?

Why would it? It's a soul. Not an energy source.

Biollante obviously has a soul, and yet you don't see her firing "soul beams" or "soul blasts."

And then any time we actually see the spirits, which is mostly when they're going into another body, their physical contact doesn't suggest at all that they're electricity.

http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/00758/en/disaster/lightning/ball_lightning.jpg

Does that look like electricity do you? It doesn't to me either.

That's a little thing called ball lightning, which IS electricity.

If you had never heard that silly comment by Yuri, no one would ever think for a moment that those spirits were actually earthly electricity.

Hey, if no one ever heard of a plated dinosaur walking around a city spewing death beams that kill thousands, no one would ever think that Godzilla was a real movie.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
If you believe in ghosts or spirits (I don't), then you'd think REAL spirits are made up of some sort of energy, spiritual or otherwise...

And yet you don't see us firing it from our eyes, teleporting with it, or breathing death rays composed of it.

Probably because whatever 'REAL' spirits are made isn't an earthly material that can exist and be useful in our world.


Why would it? It's a soul. Not an energy source.

Biollante obviously has a soul, and yet you don't see her firing "soul beams" or "soul blasts."

Obviously having electrical properties for their physical manifestation would provide a number of advantages in our world, and it would go a long way to proving the legitimacy that an already physical form (the 'electric' spirit) for whatever dumb reason, needs to change into another physical entity.


Does that look like electricity do you? It doesn't to me either.

That's a little thing called ball lightning, which IS electricity.

We saw a type of electricity in GMK, and it's reactions upon another Kaiju (Goji)

There was no clear relation between that and the souls of the Yamato Guardians.

Because if the spirits actually are electricity, then the whole thing regarding Goji absorbing souls and being able to draw in spiritual energy is BS, he's actually able to absorb electricity, instead.

And if that were the case, why the hell didn't he absorb Ghidorah's electric shock?

Here's why; THE SPIRITS AREN'T MADE OF ELECTRICITY

[The Great MM]

Oh boy. This is going to start up a whole new kind of debate...


Probably because whatever 'REAL' spirits are made isn't an earthly material that can exist and be useful in our world.


So... it exists in our body...
But not in our world... despite our body existing in our world?

Does our body have hammerspace in it or what?

Obviously having electrical properties for their physical manifestation would provide a number of advantages in our world, and it would go a long way to proving the legitimacy that an already physical form (the 'electric' spirit) for whatever dumb reason, needs to change into another physical entity.


Again, why would their soul give them extra power in their body form. Even if you're right...

Did it ever cross your mind that Baragon and Mothra simply didn't have the needed bodily organs to generate electrical attacks and that Ghidorah simply did in his jaws?

You can state "it wasn't electricity!" all you want. It doesn't make much difference. For every theory you come up with as to why it wasn't, I can come up with another theory as to why they were.

'Cause really, all we're doing now is bouncing theories off one another.

We saw a type of electricity in GMK, and it's reactions upon another Kaiju (Goji)

The electric bite? So now you ARE saying the bite is electrical?

Why are we even debating this crap then?

There was no clear relation between that and the souls of the Yamato Guardians.

Didja think that the souls maybe have very low amount of voltage?

Because if the spirits actually are electricity, then the whole thing regarding Goji absorbing souls and being able to draw in spiritual energy is BS, he's actually able to absorb electricity, instead.

Since when can Godzilla absorb spirits at all? I didn't see him pulling a Shang Tsung and summoning the souls of dead soldiers and civilians all around him.

The guardian thing at the end was the last ditch attack of the trio trying to attack Godzilla one more time and drag him under the water.


For everything that is Gwangi, tell me this whole electric soul crap debate wasn't a huge waste of time when you realized Ghidorah's bite IS electric.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
So... it exists in our body...
But not in our world... despite our body existing in our world?

Does our body have hammerspace in it or what?

I never said anything about spirits in our bodies.

Stick to the topic, boy.


Again, why would their soul give them extra power in their body form. Even if you're right...

Did it ever cross your mind that Baragon and Mothra simply didn't have the needed bodily organs to generate electrical attacks and that Ghidorah simply did in his jaws?

Why wouldn't their bodies be created that way? It's obvious that the spirits have the ability to interact extensively with their physical bodies, why would their already physical (that's essentially what they are, if they're made of electricity) spirits create a body that's pretty much a polar opposite of it?

But it all comes down to how stupid it is to say that a spirit is just physical material. It's not even a matter of scientific goofups like the movies are; it's akin to saying that Godzilla is a human, not a monster of a different species.


You can state "it wasn't electricity!" all you want. It doesn't make much difference. For every theory you come up with as to why it wasn't, I can come up with another theory as to why they were.

'Cause really, all we're doing now is bouncing theories off one another.

Your theories are unfounded by most instances in the film, and are only backed by a single, vague quote that's highly questionable and challenged by everything else in the movie.


The electric bite? So now you ARE saying the bite is electrical?

Why are we even debating this crap then?

I admitted the bite was electrical several posts ago, and you clearly missed it.

We're debating it because you're holding onto an absolutely idiotic, unfounded theory, one that clearly is being accepted by other members here as a 'reason' for Kong winning this fight.


Didja think that the souls maybe have very low amount of voltage?

It still would be retarded.


Since when can Godzilla absorb spirits at all? I didn't see him pulling a Shang Tsung and summoning the souls of dead soldiers and civilians all around him.

The guardian thing at the end was the last ditch attack of the trio trying to attack Godzilla one more time and drag him under the water.

That's incredibly questionable. If that was an 'attack' it was just about the most pathetic thing in film history, and I don't buy that. It made him lose his ability to float for a brief period of time. That's not a last ditch attack.

Especially when Goji seemed so pleased and willing to absorb it.

[The Great MM]

I never said anything about spirits in our bodies.

Stick to the topic, boy.


So would you mind explaining how spirits and ghosts work then, little girl?

And remember, you're talking to a person that doesn't believe in ghosts, spirits, or any of that magical crap.

So please, Mirren, tell me how spirits REALLY work in the REAL world.

Why wouldn't their bodies be created that way? It's obvious that the spirits have the ability to interact extensively with their physical bodies, why would their already physical (that's essentially what they are, if they're made of electricity) spirits create a body that's pretty much a polar opposite of it?


Because Baragon and Mothra existed BEFORE their bodies and souls were seperated for one.

And you're failing to give me a reason as to WHY would they? The attack doesn't fit with either Baragon or Mothra for one.

Using this type of argument is like saying

"Hey, wait a second... Why doesn't GMK Godzilla or GXMG Godzilla have a nuclear pulse? Their cousin Heisei Godzilla has one!"

Why don't they have an electrical attack? Because the makers never gave them one, that's why. It has NOTHING to do with their souls being or not being made of electricity.

Baragon was DESIGNED to be a push over to Godzilla, hence why they even got rid of his already weak as hell heat ray. Mothra had her more insect-like powers in the form of the stinger blast. Ghidorah kept his Ghidorah-ian powers in the form of the bolts (it's not a Ghidorah without the bolts, afterall) and the electric bite to look all fancy.

But it all comes down to how stupid it is to say that a spirit is just physical material. It's not even a matter of scientific goofups like the movies are; it's akin to saying that Godzilla is a human, not a monster of a different species.


You mean something just as dumb as say...

A bunch of WW2 dead Japanese soldiers, angered at Japan now, possess the body of a 55-meter atomic dinosaur and go on a rampage to prove a point about forgetting the past in a manor that really doesn't bring up anything about their past, but instead stirs memories of the attack of the 55-meter atomic dinosaur of yesteryear, making their attack virtually pointless because still nobody will remember their sacrafice, but instead the horrors of said 55-meter atomic dinosaur.

This is what we call Kaneko-ism. His monsters almost ALWAYS have this dumb-*** "reason" behind them that makes little to no sense.


Your theories are unfounded by most instances in the film, and are only backed by a single, vague quote that's highly questionable and challenged by everything else in the movie.


Unfounded... how? There's no evidence there that debunks that the souls ARE electric. And while there's no real evidence they are... Movie wise...

EXCEPT, ya' know, the hot orange-haired Japanese chick with the book of GMK mythology.

We're debating it because you're holding onto an absolutely idiotic, unfounded theory, one that clearly is being accepted by other members here as a 'reason' for Kong winning this fight.


Wait... Who here has said Kong is going to win because the guardians have electric souls, 'cause that sure as Hell wasn't me.

I say he wins because Ghiddy is going to be super-charging him throughout the entire battle.

It still would be retarded.


The idea of what SPAWNED GMK Godzilla alone is retarded.

It's kick ***, sure.

But still retarded.

[Godzilla]

What this thread needs are various pics of that Japanese chick (I think the name mention was Yuri).

[BS Digital Q]

What this thread needs are various pics of that Japanese chick (I think the name mention was Yuri).As you wish. :D

http://bbznet.pukpik.com/images/upload2/iscan/oDU620070703203110.jpg
http://wallpaper.narak.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Chiharu_niiyama_4.jpg

[Godzilla]

Nice, but I don't understand the last pic of the noseless clown looking thing.....

[The Great MM]

As you wish. :D

http://bbznet.pukpik.com/images/upload2/iscan/oDU620070703203110.jpg
http://wallpaper.narak.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Chiharu_niiyama_4.jpg

You see Mirren, and you think that THAT is wrong?

I don't.


Fap. Fap. Fap.

[BS Digital Q]

Nice, but I don't understand the last pic of the noseless clown looking thing.....Thats my sig. And Tommy Rod will eat your SOUL for that...

[Godzilla]

And Tommy Rod will eat your SOUL for that...
Who?

And it's fair to say that if Yuri were in the battlefield, Kong would get distracted and lose.

[BS Digital Q]

Who?The so called "noseless clown thing" in my sig. Who has some of the most AWESOME scary faces in manga...

And if you're note careful...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/BSDQ/tommyrod.jpg

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
So would you mind explaining how spirits and ghosts work then, little girl?

And remember, you're talking to a person that doesn't believe in ghosts, spirits, or any of that magical crap.

So please, Mirren, tell me how spirits REALLY work in the REAL world.

I know that anywhere you go and ask, a spirit is regarded as something that's not physical, and they don't seem to be physical in GMK.


Because Baragon and Mothra existed BEFORE their bodies and souls were seperated for one.

Reference?


And you're failing to give me a reason as to WHY would they? The attack doesn't fit with either Baragon or Mothra for one.

Using this type of argument is like saying

"Hey, wait a second... Why doesn't GMK Godzilla or GXMG Godzilla have a nuclear pulse? Their cousin Heisei Godzilla has one!"

Why don't they have an electrical attack? Because the makers never gave them one, that's why. It has NOTHING to do with their souls being or not being made of electricity.

Baragon was DESIGNED to be a push over to Godzilla, hence why they even got rid of his already weak as hell heat ray. Mothra had her more insect-like powers in the form of the stinger blast. Ghidorah kept his Ghidorah-ian powers in the form of the bolts (it's not a Ghidorah without the bolts, afterall) and the electric bite to look all fancy.

Because it makes no sense that their primary 'physical' form's features wouldn't carry over in the least to their other physical form that they, for whatever reason, need to use to fight when they already have a 'physical' manifestation that'd most likely be way more effective and safe.


You mean something just as dumb as say...

A bunch of WW2 dead Japanese soldiers, angered at Japan now, possess the body of a 55-meter atomic dinosaur and go on a rampage to prove a point about forgetting the past in a manor that really doesn't bring up anything about their past, but instead stirs memories of the attack of the 55-meter atomic dinosaur of yesteryear, making their attack virtually pointless because still nobody will remember their sacrafice, but instead the horrors of said 55-meter atomic dinosaur.

This is what we call Kaneko-ism. His monsters almost ALWAYS have this dumb-*** "reason" behind them that makes little to no sense.[/quote

In GMK, that makes sense because it was designed to.

The spirits being electricity that our world is accustomed to is a faulty theory according to specific attributes of the film.

[quote]
Unfounded... how? There's no evidence there that debunks that the souls ARE electric. And while there's no real evidence they are... Movie wise...

EXCEPT, ya' know, the hot orange-haired Japanese chick with the book of GMK mythology.

There's nothing to outright proves or debunks it, but there's more that suggests its BS than there is that suggests it's legit.

One unclear quote suggests it's legit.

The monsters' other physical forms not sporting electric features, Goji's inability to absorb Ghidorah's electric bite but absorb the spirits and Ghidorah's bolts, Yuri oddly not specifying the Yamato Guardians (for like, the only f'n time in all of her dialogue) in the quote etc. suggest it's BS.


Wait... Who here has said Kong is going to win because the guardians have electric souls, 'cause that sure as Hell wasn't me.

I say he wins because Ghiddy is going to be super-charging him throughout the entire battle.

Ghidorah has one attack that would super-charge him. And he may not even use it before Kong's dead.


You see Mirren, and you think that THAT is wrong?

I don't.

I know 17 year old girls that have bigger boobs than her.

And her physical accomplishments doesn't change that she's probably a dumb bimbo, or vice versa.

[Godzilla]

Asians get a pass in the boobs department. You should know this Mirren. (Not that all Asians have tiny breasts, of course)

Anyways, it's completely possible that all 3 guardians have spirits that are connected with some kind of element or something (One suggestion was that Baragon was a spirit of earth, Mothra a spirit of water, and Ghidorah a spirit of sky. Sky would include lightning). This argument is kind of becoming pointless though. What purpose does it really serve?

I don't exactly remember the GMK Goji vs GMK Ghiddy fight, so I don't remember if Ghiddy used his beam weapon early and often. But I know Kong will try and get close, and once (or if) he gets close Ghiddy will probably bite him. Then Kong will get charged, and we all know the one weakness any Ghidorah has. That's right, getting their heads ripped off. I have no doubt that Kong will be in a good position and be able to do that. And then I see Mothra going down soon after. 'Course, if Ghidorah is able to hit Kong with his beam a few times, it would probably wound Kong badly. And Mothra from that point on would be a lot more useful (whether she gets herself killed or not). So, I dunno.

[Super Angillas]

The so called "noseless clown thing" in my sig. Who has some of the most AWESOME scary faces in manga...

And if you're note careful...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/BSDQ/tommyrod.jpg

I just got to the point of Toriko where Tommyrod shows up. Scary *******.

I thought Kanekoism was always having a monster win by pulling a power out their ***.

Gamera- Hey all that fire heals him! Somewhat justified.
Gamera2- Hey, Gamera can pull out a huge beam to kill an already pretty well done foe! Oh and it's actually a bad thing if he uses it.
Gamera3- Hey Gamera can turn fireballs like his in fire fists! Were not even trying to explain it anymore.
GMK- You know how Ghidorah's electricity was hurting Goji? Well now it supercharges him!

I always felt that eventually all the vengeful spirts of those GMK Goji killed should come back as Destroyah. It'd be ironic.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Godzilla brings up a good point about the whole elements thing.

Regardless of weither or not Kong can absorb Ghidorahs electricity, I still think he can beat these two. In a two-on-one match, Mothra was mostly absent, letting Ghidorah do the fighting while providing occasional support. I'm not at all impressed with Ghidorahs melee prowess, and Mothra likes to dive in to close for her own good to help her partner.

i'd just like to point out that no text ever states that Atlantis was destroyed by a flock of reptillian devil-birds and engineered giant turtles to protect them. So I don't see how GMKs electrical spirit thing is any less valid.

[Showa Godzilla]

I'm leaning towards Ghidorah and Mothra right now, because I'm not sure Kong can take this, even if he is supercharged.

While GMK Ghidorah isn't the best hand to hand fighter around, he's not terrible either. He was able to fight hth with GMK Godzilla, and not get his *** kicked untill Godzilla started blasting him. Kong on the other hand, wasn't doing so well against an early Showa Godzilla, untill he got juiced. Godzilla and Kong were about the same size, while GMK Godzilla definitely had a size advantage over the guardian monster. I think both monsters are capable fighters upclose, and neither is going to have big advantage over the other in this area.

IF King Kong can get can charged up from King Ghidorah's bite attack, I think he'll be strong enough to defeat the three headed dragon upclose. If not, then I think it'll be the other way around. Ghidorah also has flight, his beams, and Mothra to back him up. Unless King Kong can supercharged, he's doomed. Even if he did, he would still be in for a hell of a fight.

[The Great MM]

I know that anywhere you go and ask, a spirit is regarded as something that's not physical, and they don't seem to be physical in GMK.

They're not physical...

Because they don't exist.

It's mythology. You can change mythology any way you want in movies.

Any Greek professor is going to tell you Hercules fought and killedthe Hydra.

Guess what? In Jason and the Argonauts, Jason fought and killed the Hydra.

Doesn't really matter because mythology is nothing more than... not true.

Reference?


There's that entire scene how they say the monsters were killed and their souls (ELECTRIC SOULS!!!!) were put in statues (LIKE CDs!).

Because it makes no sense that their primary 'physical' form's features wouldn't carry over in the least to their other physical form that they, for whatever reason, need to use to fight when they already have a 'physical' manifestation that'd most likely be way more effective and safe.

It doesn't make sense Hedorah would fight in a non-wet environment.
It doesn't make sense the Kilaaks would throw Ghidorah against three monsters that already beat it, let alone ELEVEN.
It doesn't make sense that Minilla is Godzilla's adopted son.

What's your point besides it not making sense?

There's nothing to outright proves or debunks it, but there's more that suggests its BS than there is that suggests it's legit.

One unclear quote suggests it's legit.

The monsters' other physical forms not sporting electric features, Goji's inability to absorb Ghidorah's electric bite but absorb the spirits and Ghidorah's bolts, Yuri oddly not specifying the Yamato Guardians (for like, the only f'n time in all of her dialogue) in the quote etc. suggest it's BS.

Since when can GMK Godzilla absorb electricity at all? Maybe it's because the gravity bolts and electric bite are composed of different energy? 'Cause, ya' know, one is called ELECTRIC BITE and other is called GRAVITY BEAM.

[SuperXAsh]

God you guys are still going on about this?!?!? :eh:

[Showa Godzilla]

God you guys are still going on about this?!?!? :eh:

Yeah, you think 4 pages would be enough :dozing:.

Even if Kong gets charged, I think Ghidorah and Mothra have the edge. King Kong could pull off a win, but I think it's far more likely that the guardians will take down Kong.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
They're not physical...

Because they don't exist.

It's mythology. You can change mythology any way you want in movies.

Any Greek professor is going to tell you Hercules fought and killedthe Hydra.

Guess what? In Jason and the Argonauts, Jason fought and killed the Hydra.

Doesn't really matter because mythology is nothing more than... not true.

Whether or not they actually exist is irrelevant. The concept of a spirit is what we're talking about, and it is universally regarded as something that is not physical.


There's that entire scene how they say the monsters were killed and their souls (ELECTRIC SOULS!!!!) were put in statues (LIKE CDs!).

Alright...

That doesn't explain that their soul or body came before the other, though. Which goes back to my point; why would an already physical spirit need a physical body in the first place?

Because their spirits aren't electric, thus, not physical ;)


It doesn't make sense Hedorah would fight in a non-wet environment.
It doesn't make sense the Kilaaks would throw Ghidorah against three monsters that already beat it, let alone ELEVEN.
It doesn't make sense that Minilla is Godzilla's adopted son.

What's your point besides it not making sense?

They don't make sense, but they actually happened. We can't argue that they didn't occur because there's irrefutable, empirical evidence that they happened.

You can't do the same for the "Their spirits are electric" nonsense.


Since when can GMK Godzilla absorb electricity at all? Maybe it's because the gravity bolts and electric bite are composed of different energy? 'Cause, ya' know, one is called ELECTRIC BITE and other is called GRAVITY BEAM.

That's kind of my point. He can't absorb electricity as proven by Ghidorah's bite attack. Therefor, the spirits can't be electricity, because he seemed to absorb them just fine.

And I know what you're going to say, so I'll stay a step ahead of you; the idea that they were 'attacking' him seems like another piece of idiotic bullshit to me.

[Hybrid Gojira]

I always thought the "noseless clown thing" was Freiza from Dragonball Z.

I'm also surprised at how much support Kong has. The whole "supercharged" Kong is really...well.. not that effective. Kong is more aggressive and yes he has tremendous strength.

But so does Ghidorah, who also has Mothra fighting with him. If Kong's electric attacks couldn't hurt Godzilla seriously, who is WEAK AGAINST ELECTRICITY, I have a hard time believing it will edge Kong here.

[The Great MM]

Whether or not they actually exist is irrelevant. The concept of a spirit is what we're talking about, and it is universally regarded as something that is not physical.


Again. So what.

They don't exist.

The concept of the Hydra myth is that Hercules fought it, not Jason.
Yet Jason fought it in the movies.

The concept of Heaven is that it is GOOD and angels are not evil.
Go watch Legion.

That doesn't explain that their soul or body came before the other, though. Which goes back to my point; why would an already physical spirit need a physical body in the first place?

Because I imagine a CGI-elecrtic Baragon, Mothra, and Ghidorah would cost Toho too much.

That's kind of my point. He can't absorb electricity as proven by Ghidorah's bite attack. Therefor, the spirits can't be electricity, because he seemed to absorb them just fine.

Except that whole "absorbing the souls!" is one huge fan theory, just as much as the one I listed which actually came from the bios written by, you guessed it, fans.

Frankly, I think the idea of turning GMK Godzilla into a Shang Tsung of kaiju is freaking retarded and doesn't make a lick of sense. He's filled with angry souls... and yet they absorb the souls of the guardians? Really now.

Are the soldiers trying to make Godzilla bipolar or what?

And I know what you're going to say, so I'll stay a step ahead of you; the idea that they were 'attacking' him seems like another piece of idiotic bullshit to me.

The idea of GMK Godzilla absorbing any souls in general sounds like idiotic bullshit to me.

[Showa Godzilla]

I'm also surprised at how much support Kong has. The whole "supercharged" Kong is really...well.. not that effective. Kong is more aggressive and yes he has tremendous strength.

But so does Ghidorah, who also has Mothra fighting with him. If Kong's electric attacks couldn't hurt Godzilla seriously, who is WEAK AGAINST ELECTRICITY, I have a hard time believing it will edge Kong here.

Exactly. If Kong is able to absorb Ghidorah's bite attack, so what? He gets a strength boost. Showa Godzilla was weak to electricity, and Kong still wasn't kicking his *** up close. I honestly don't see why people think Kong is so strong. So he swung Godzilla by his tail while in a powered up state, big whoop. Showa Godzilla has much more impressive feats of strength, and is a far better fighter up close.

If Kong can't absorb the bite attack, he loses. If he can absorb it, he'll do better, but still lose. King Ghidorah is a capable tooth and claw fighter, has decent beams, and Mothra to back him up. I can't see Kong winning this fight, the Guardians take it.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
Again. So what.

They don't exist.

The concept of the Hydra myth is that Hercules fought it, not Jason.
Yet Jason fought it in the movies.

The concept of Heaven is that it is GOOD and angels are not evil.
Go watch Legion.

Those don't change the entire meaning behind a universally accepted concept. They don't change what mythology actually is.


Because I imagine a CGI-elecrtic Baragon, Mothra, and Ghidorah would cost Toho too much.

You've basically conceeded that I have a more thought-out explanation, rather than a shortcut as you have since your belief in Yuri's quote is...stupid. Yeah I said it.


Except that whole "absorbing the souls!" is one huge fan theory, just as much as the one I listed which actually came from the bios written by, you guessed it, fans.

Frankly, I think the idea of turning GMK Godzilla into a Shang Tsung of kaiju is freaking retarded and doesn't make a lick of sense. He's filled with angry souls... and yet they absorb the souls of the guardians? Really now.

Are the soldiers trying to make Godzilla bipolar or what?

His absorbing of their souls makes more sense than anything you've said in the last two years.

[The Great MM]

Those don't change the entire meaning behind a universally accepted concept. They don't change what mythology actually is.

Actually they do. Especially the whole "Angels aren't evil"... "Oooh. Heeeey. Why are you possessing an old lady and ripping my husband's throat out... Ooooh! You are evil!"

You've basically conceeded that I have a more thought-out explanation, rather than a shortcut as you have since your belief in Yuri's quote is...stupid. Yeah I said it.


Oh, the souls = electricity IS stupid. Never said it wasn't.

The whole idea of souls, spirits, and ghosts... however... I find stupid.

His absorbing of their souls makes more sense than anything you've said in the last two years.

Now that's just mean.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
Actually they do. Especially the whole "Angels aren't evil"... "Oooh. Heeeey. Why are you possessing an old lady and ripping my husband's throat out... Ooooh! You are evil!"

No no no no. They change very specific examples of mythology, they don't change the meaning behind the term mythology or what mythology in general describes.

[The Great MM]

No no no no. They change very specific examples of mythology, they don't change the meaning behind the term mythology or what mythology in general describes.

... Yes. That is.
Mythology tells us angels aren't evil, especially the likes of Gabriel. That's the whole POINT of an angel. They aren't evil, 'cept for that certain one.

Mythology tells us that spirits aren't any real "known" energy.
GMK changed that.

It doesn't make ANY bit of difference because it didn't effect how Ghidorah, Baragon, or Mothra fought. This entire debate was virtually pointless. And since Goro vs. MX is obviously kicking up, I'm ending this.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by MM
... Yes. That is.
Mythology tells us angels aren't evil, especially the likes of Gabriel. That's the whole POINT of an angel. They aren't evil, 'cept for that certain one.

Angels that you speak of only exist in one type of mythology; the Judeo-Christian mythology.

There's more to mythology than what tightwad Jews and uptight, anal Christians believe.

(I'm a Christian, don't any of you mods come yelling at me for being inappropriate)


Mythology tells us that spirits aren't any real "known" energy.
GMK changed that.

Spirits aren't exclusive to mythology.

[SuperXAsh]

oh my god... we're bringing in angels and the bible.... into a talk about kaiju???

End this. please.

[Showa Godzilla]

^ Yeah, I would much rather hear some good reasoning as to why King Kong can take down both guardians.

[Godzilla]

^ Yeah, I would much rather hear some good reasoning as to why King Kong can take down both guardians.
Because Ghiddy's bite will charge Kong and put him in a grand position for a beat down/head ripping opportunity. And because Mothra wouldn't be that useful in battle afterwords.

[Showa Godzilla]

Because Ghiddy's bite will charge Kong and put him in a grand position for a beat down/head ripping opportunity. And because Mothra wouldn't be that useful in battle afterwords.

Since when is Kong that strong when powered up? I didn't see Showa Godzilla losing his head, or getting his tail ripped off. King Ghidorah isn't as bad at fighting as some people seem to think, and he's not going to be getting ripped to pieces by Kong. Showa Godzilla was weak to electricity, and he was still fighting about evenly with Kong when he was powered up. Before that, Kong was getting his hairy *** kicked.

[Godzilla]

Since when is Kong that strong when powered up? I didn't see Showa Godzilla losing his head, or getting his tail ripped off. King Ghidorah isn't as bad at fighting as some people seem to think, and he's not going to be getting ripped to pieces by Kong. Showa Godzilla was weak to electricity, and he was still fighting about evenly with Kong when he was powered up. Before that, Kong was getting his hairy *** kicked.
In general, Ghidorah's necks are pretty weak and prone to getting ripped off (or pulsed off or whatever). I imagine the electric charge will only weaken the area, and Kong is pretty strong and in a good position to rip his heads off. At the very least, the charge should at least catch Ghidorah off guard and allow Kong a distinct advantage. I have no doubt that Kong is more capable in melee than KG and his charge will only help him.

[BS Digital Q]

Plus, IIRC, Kong had trouble lifting Godzilla's tail, enough so that he got tossed back by it. After he got electrically charged, he was able to lift and throw Godzilla by it.

I'd say there was a fairly signficant power-boost involved there.

[Showa Godzilla]

But I still doubt that King Kong is going to ripping off limbs anytime soon. King Kong really isn't that great of a hth fighter. Showa Godzilla was beating him without too much trouble, until Kong got the charge. Even then, Godzilla was holding his own, despite the fact that electricity is his weakness. Showa Godzilla has far more impressive feats of strength under his belt, but I don't see anyone saying he can rip off Kaiju limbs with ease.

I'm going to watch the fights from both monsters before deciding, but I'm still leaning towards the two guardians.

[SuperXAsh]

but that was just from a few little lightning bolts, imagine getting a sustained jolt from Ghidorah, or that (environmentally dictated) ship (whose name escapes me) unleashes it's mazer cannons???

Kong's gonna be getting a significant power-boost. Maybe not ripping heads, but still fully capable of pummelling the shitake out of Mothra and Ghidorah, till they're both out of submission. AND they're in shanghai, even if Ghidorah and that ship stop zapping him, Kong won't have to look very far to get some additional power-boost from the city's powerlines.

[MirrenDono]

A few little lightning bolts each contain over a billion volts of electricity, dude.

For Christ's sake people, it's not like he started ripping off Goji's limbs or anything. He just threw him around and kept...touching him. No visible damage, no slowing down from Goji, and he actually managed to start fighting back just fine against Kong.

There is NO WAY Kong will start ripping off Ghidorah's heads. That's ridiculous.

And it's one attack from Ghidorah, one he probably won't even use. His DD bio lists him as having his Gravity Bolts. Do you all really think he's going to run in close and bite down on Kong before he fires off his bolts? No, he's not, he's gonna fire those, and Kong won't be absorbing those.

He'll be dying from those.

[SuperXAsh]

A few little lightning bolts each contain over a billion volts of electricity, dude.

For Christ's sake people, it's not like he started ripping off Goji's limbs or anything. He just threw him around and kept...touching him. No visible damage, no slowing down from Goji, and he actually managed to start fighting back just fine against Kong.

There is NO WAY Kong will start ripping off Ghidorah's heads. That's ridiculous.

And it's one attack from Ghidorah, one he probably won't even use. His DD bio lists him as having his Gravity Bolts. Do you all really think he's going to run in close and bite down on Kong before he fires off his bolts? No, he's not, he's gonna fire those, and Kong won't be absorbing those.

He'll be dying from those.

and just where the hell did he get gravity bolts mirren? That works for him when he's an alien creature, but GMK Ghidorah's from Earth, so it just makes sense that those "grav bolts" are just an extension of the electricity he was clearly using earlier in the movie when he bit Godzilla.

and I'm not saying Kong would rip Ghidorah apart, but I am saying he'd be more than able to pummell the holy hell out of Ghidorah. Kong & Goji fought out in this vast canyon territory, this is in a major city fueled by electricty... Kong wouldn't have to look far for a power-boost.

or are you just angry that i tried to pull this debate back to the subject at hand and not go further into the argument over meta-physics and religious concepts? :p *is just giving you crap, btw, fyi*

[Godzilla]

actually, both those attacks are listed as using spectral energy. I want to get an official ruling. COUNSIL OF 13! HEAD MY CALL! DO GMK GHIDORAH'S ATTACKS COUNT AS ELECTRIC ATTACKS!?

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by SuperXAsh
and just where the hell did he get gravity bolts mirren? That works for him when he's an alien creature, but GMK Ghidorah's from Earth, so it just makes sense that those "grav bolts" are just an extension of the electricity he was clearly using earlier in the movie when he bit Godzilla.

Well, firstly, his DD bio and official stats say they're not electrical bolts.

Secondly, there is no way in hell that electricity would power up Goji's beam the way it did.

Thirdly, and most importantly, they can't be electricity because that would mean that GMK Godzilla could absorb electricity, and if that were the case, he should have absorbed Ghidorah's electric bite (but he didn't).


and I'm not saying Kong would rip Ghidorah apart, but I am saying he'd be more than able to pummell the holy hell out of Ghidorah. Kong & Goji fought out in this vast canyon territory, this is in a major city fueled by electricty... Kong wouldn't have to look far for a power-boost.

That's very true...

...but he's got two opponents hot on his tail. Two very mobile opponents that can hit him from just about any angle, any elevation thanks to said mobility and their projectile attacks.

[SuperXAsh]

Well, firstly, his DD bio (and official stats) say they're not electrical bolts.

Secondly, there is no way in hell that electricity would power up Goji's beam the way it did.


Thirdly, and most importantly, they can't be electricity because that would mean that GMK Godzilla could absorb electricity, and if that were the case, he should have absorbed Ghidorah's electric bite (but he didn't).

If memory serves, he pretty much did the kaiju equivalent of "swallowing his soul", which he suddenly could do...


That's very true...

...but he's going two opponents hot on his tail. Two very mobile opponents that can hit him from just about any angle, any elevation thanks to said mobility and their projectile attacks.

Oh yes because GMK Mothra showed herself to be SO capable in that movie. She was too busy carrying Ghidorah sorry *** to be of much help there. And you're discounting that ship everyone's been talking about, which fires masers, which I think qualify as electricity.

And they're standing in a city, powered by electricity. If KKvsG had taken place in Tokyo, I'm sure the fight would've gone MUCH differently.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by SuperXAsh
If memory serves, he pretty much did the kaiju equivalent of "swallowing his soul", which he suddenly could do...

More to the point...

GMK Goji can't absorb electricity. Ghidorah's bolts aren't electricity.

And in case I didn't make it clear by now, neither are the Yamato Spirits.


Oh yes because GMK Mothra showed herself to be SO capable in that movie. She was too busy carrying Ghidorah sorry *** to be of much help there.

...what?

How does this change that Kong has two opponents that are infinitely more mobile than him, and can hit him with projectiles from wherever they want?


And you're discounting that ship everyone's been talking about, which fires masers, which I think qualify as electricity.

That doesn't improve his durability. Or change that Mothra and Ghidorah can fly above him and just rain down projectiles.


And they're standing in a city, powered by electricity. If KKvsG had taken place in Tokyo, I'm sure the fight would've gone MUCH differently.

Yeah, he would've been standing there leaving himself wide opened as he ate electricity.

Standing in one spot doing that here will get him killed, even quicker than he already will be.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Even with the power boost, Godzilla still did well against Kong.

You know, like both of them wrestling around.

And Kong tried stuffing a tree down Godzilla's throat, which as cool as that was, will work just as well against Ghidorah...in that it won't because a beam would blast it away.

Kong's strength is being seriously overrated.

This is EARLY Showa Godzilla he couldn't conclusively beat, even when he had Godzilla's weakness literally in his hands.

Ghidorah and Mothra win.

[Mighty Minya]

King Kong's a total idiot. If King Goji tricked that moron, than so can KG and M. The fool knocked himself out, twice. He sucks at hand to hand. And maybe just maybe he'll get shocked by King ghidorah and get some juice, he could pull off a victory. But, KG might not shock him. So I still give it to KG and M.

Winner(s) = King Ghidorah and Mothra

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

GMK King Ghidorah sucks at melee. I don't see how rushing forward and attaching yourself to the very capable hands of your oppnent is a very good strategy. Kong is a monster that threw Godzilla by his tail, judo flipped him, and sat on his torso while he punched the hell out of his head.

GMK Mothra is a good combatant on her own, but when she was paired with this very same ally, she let him take the brunt of the assault, then flew dangerous close to her opponent where she was *****-slapped with a tail. And no, I'm not saying Kong has the same uncanny battlefield awareness as GMK Godzilla, but he's considerably sharper and if anyone was able to handle two opponents with nothing but his fists and his rage, its this Kong.

What did Ghidorah do once Godzilla got ahold of him? He took it like a chump and didn't do ANYTHING. am I supposed to be impressed? Kong is going to pulvarize him.

Mothra flies foolishly slow and will get caught by Kong and then punched a bunch more. Duh Ende.

[Orga777]

GMK King Ghidorah sucks at melee. I don't see how rushing forward and attaching yourself to the very capable hands of your oppnent is a very good strategy. Kong is a monster that threw Godzilla by his tail, judo flipped him, and sat on his torso while he punched the hell out of his head.

So physically restraining a Godzilla that plowed through a small mountain like it was made of cardboard boxes is not impressive? :eyebrow:

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

So physically restraining a Godzilla that plowed through a small mountain like it was made of cardboard boxes is not impressive?
You'll have to specify. If you're reffering to him latching onto Godzillas arms and neck, I'm not impressed because A) EVERYONE gets the initial jump on GMK Godzilla at first, and B) Godzilla was still pushing Ghidorah back while being shocked. So he was hardly "restrained".

if you're reffering to him being underwater, pfft. Don't make me laugh. Call it "restrained" or "pinned" or "out-muscled" if you want, but Ghidorah wasn't doing anymore then SITTING on his spines just out of beam, tail, and arms reach of Godzilla. Ghidorahs legs were kicking. He looked more like he was impaled on his spines then doing any sort of "restraining" (and no I'm not implying Ghidorah was actually impaled.).

[Hybrid Gojira]

GMK King Ghidorah sucks at melee. I don't see how rushing forward and attaching yourself to the very capable hands of your oppnent is a very good strategy. Kong is a monster that threw Godzilla by his tail, judo flipped him, and sat on his torso while he punched the hell out of his head.

Kong is also the same monster who rolled into a boulder and knocked himself out. Though he is strong, Godzilla was physically on par with him for most of the fight, including when he was charged up. Godzilla kicked him, battered his face in with his tail until he knocked him out.

And no, I'm not saying Kong has the same uncanny battlefield awareness as GMK Godzilla, but he's considerably sharper and if anyone was able to handle two opponents with nothing but his fists and his rage, its this Kong.

How so?

Kong has to contend with two monsters more agile and arguably smarter than early Showa Godzilla. Mothra tried sneak attacks on Godzilla. Kong WONT see them coming, and all Mothra has to do is stay out of his range to inflict damage. Granted, she's screwed if he manages to grab her, but keep in mind Kong's best attack against Mothra is probably going to be throwing feces, rocks, or whatever else he can find at her.

What did Ghidorah do once Godzilla got ahold of him? He took it like a chump and didn't do ANYTHING. am I supposed to be impressed? Kong is going to pulvarize him.

You don't think Ghidorah keeping Godzilla at bay or pulling him under water is impressive?

Because Godzilla weighs more than Kong.

Kong weighs less the Ghidorah.

Ghidorah wrestled Godzilla very well.

Plus, Kong doesn't have thick armor to protect him against Ghidorah's bites or Mothra's stingers.

[Showa Godzilla]

Just watched the fight scenes involving the kaiju in this match with my brother, and I still believe the two Guardians take this.

The idea that Kong is impressive without his electrical power up, is laughable. His most impressive feats before being powered up were actually managing to get on top of Godzilla while wrestling him, and land a few punches, and not getting damaged by early Showa Godzilla's mist breath. He was outmatched by Godzilla up close, and he wasn't strong enough to do anything but get knocked over when he got a hold of Godzilla's tail. If King Ghidorah isn't a very impressive hth fighter, neither is Kong.

Even when he had his boost, he was even with an early Showa Godzilla in hth. Again, this Godzilla was weak to electricity! King Kong still wasn't able to beat Godzilla down, even with his enhanced strength and Godzilla's weakness to electricity.

GMK Ghidorah may not be the best tooth and claw fighter ever, but he's certainly capable of going toe to toe with Kong. When King Ghidorah wrestling with Godzilla up close, he was biting both is wrists to restrain him, as well as his neck. After this, he started to shock Godzilla, and Godzilla was not pushing back at this point. According to the official stats, King Ghidorah's shock bite is not electric in nature, and won't power up Kong. Unless I'm told otherwise, that's what I'm going to believe. If GMK Godzilla was getting hurt by his bite attack, you can bet Kong isn't going to find it pleasant.

Another thing to remember is that King Ghidorah does have flight, and his Gravity Beams. I wouldn't be surprised if King Ghidorah tried a flying kick on Kong like he did against Godzilla. Also, We may not know exactly how strong Ghidorah's gravity beams are, but I'm sure they would do some damage to the Ape. Also, King Ghidorah has Mothra backing him up, and Mothra's stingers will definitely hurt Kong, considering they sent Godzilla reeling back into a building. With both of these flying Monsters attacking King Kong, I just don't see him winning. Unless the Karyu blasts Kong with it's maser, He won't be able to find some electricity with both guardians attacking him.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Kong is also the same monster who rolled into a boulder and knocked himself out. Though he is strong, Godzilla was physically on par with him for most of the fight, including when he was charged up. Godzilla kicked him, battered his face in with his tail until he knocked him out.
Kong's little plan of rushing, tossing a rock and doing a roll around was a good idea. Prove it's not. He bumped his head out of bad luck and circumstance. That doesn't mean it wouldn't work against a different opponent later on. This is pretty common. If a plan doesn't work then it apparently is a bad idea.

How many kaiju do you know could've got out of FW Kumongas attack strategy? He was beat because his opponent just so happened to be able to catch him.

How many kaiju could handle getting crashed into by FW Kamacuras with claws drawn?

How many could have survived FW Gigans initial attack?

How many opponents could've survived Heisei Mechagodzillas initial strategy against Godzilla?

How many opponents could survive against Megalon creating a ring of (apparently) really hot fire around them?

just because it didn't work didn't mean it was a bad idea. If you invented a cheap, mass-producable solar panel and demonstrated on a day with too much overcast and clouds, I wouldn't go "haha, stupid. Your little panel doesn't work as well as you say it will!".

Kong has to contend with two monsters more agile and arguably smarter than early Showa Godzilla. Mothra tried sneak attacks on Godzilla. Kong WONT see them coming, and all Mothra has to do is stay out of his range to inflict damage. Granted, she's screwed if he manages to grab her, but keep in mind Kong's best attack against Mothra is probably going to be throwing feces, rocks, or whatever else he can find at her.
Except Mothra gets to close for her own good. She didn't need to get that close, or swoop in that slowly to hit him with her stingers. Mothra flies painfully slow and painfully close to her opponents. Throwing objects probably WOULD be a good idea, infact considering how casually she apparently takes combat.

You don't think Ghidorah keeping Godzilla at bay or pulling him under water is impressive?
When? Underwater? Sitting out of arms reach isn't impressive in the least. On land? Godzilla was still pushing him back.

[Showa Godzilla]

When? Underwater? Sitting out of arms reach isn't impressive in the least. On land? Godzilla was still pushing him back.


Godzilla was only pushing back once he had grabbed two of Ghidorah's heads by the horns, and was biting the other. Before that, King Ghidorah was pushing Godzilla back, despite weighing less. King Kong weighs less then Ghidorah in this match-up, so It's not like Kong is going to manhandle him. Also, how would Kong go about holding off all of Ghidorah's heads? He doesn't have a set of fangs like Godzilla, so the one head he isn't holding off will be biting him. And what's to stop Mothra from attacking King Kong while he's grappling with her partner? Kong doesn't have a tail, or a sixth sense.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

The idea that Kong is impressive without his electrical power up, is laughable. His most impressive feats before being powered up were actually managing to get on top of Godzilla while wrestling him, and land a few punches
How is this not impressive? Sitting on someones chest and pounding their head in with a taser is absalutely brutal by the standards of everything that doesn't envolve a chainsaw. something a docile and wimpy Ghidorah can't withstand since HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO GET KONG OFF OF HIM.

and not getting damaged by early Showa Godzilla's mist breath. He was outmatched by Godzilla up close, and he wasn't strong enough to do anything but get knocked over when he got a hold of Godzilla's tail.
As BSDQ already told you once, that was before he got charged. After he was charged he ****ing THREW HIM by that tail.

If King Ghidorah isn't a very impressive hth fighter, neither is Kong.
Name kaiju that have shown the fortitude to perform vague martial arts manuevers, use guerilla (ZING!) tactics, imploy their envrionment, and have the agression and combat ferocity to sit on your chest and punch you in the head.



When King Ghidorah wrestling with Godzilla up close, he was biting both is wrists to restrain him, as well as his neck. After this, he started to shock Godzilla, and Godzilla was not pushing back at this point.
Rushing and over-whelming this Godzilla is laughably easy. This isn't a point in your favor.

According to the official stats, King Ghidorah's shock bite is not electric in nature, and won't power up Kong. Unless I'm told otherwise, that's what I'm going to believe. If GMK Godzilla was getting hurt by his bite attack, you can bet Kong isn't going to find it pleasant.
Deal! Megalons napalm is created by spitting bottles of gasoline with flaming rags and coated in cherry bubble gum. Proves it's not.

[Showa Godzilla]

How is this not impressive? Sitting on someones chest and pounding their head in with a taser is absalutely brutal by the standards of everything that doesn't envolve a chainsaw. something a docile and wimpy Ghidorah can't withstand since HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO GET KONG OFF OF HIM.
hmmm, Showa Godzilla had a vulnerability to electricity, and he was still able to knock Kong off! Even if he can't do anything, his partner can just shoot Kong with stingers.


As BSDQ already told you once, that was before he got charged. After he was charged he ****ing THREW HIM by that tail.
Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was pointing out how pathetic Kong is when he isn't charged. Showa Godzilla has even more impressive feats of strength under his belt, but I don't hear anybody saying he can rip off limbs.

Name kaiju that have shown the fortitude to perform vague martial arts manuevers, use guerilla (ZING!) tactics, imploy their envrionment, and have the agression and combat ferocity to sit on your chest and punch you in the head.
You forgot knocking himself out in a fight :p. Kong only did the judo flip after he was charged, and he won't be using any guerilla tactics against two flying opponents. Combat Ferocity? Kong barely got two punches off before Godzilla rolled over, and they continue wrestling. Kong only showed ferocity when he was powered up, and was using his opponent's weakness against him. Even then, he was evenly matched with an early Showa Godzilla.

Rushing and over-whelming this Godzilla is laughably easy. This isn't a point in your favor.
Doesn't change the fact that Kong won't be able to deal with all three of Ghidorah's heads, while also fending off Mothra.


Deal! Megalons napalm is created by spitting bottles of gasoline with flaming rags and coated in cherry bubble gum. Proves it's not.
Ha ha. Looking at the stats, King Ghidorah's attacks are listed as using spectral energy. Last time I checked, Kong absorbs electricity.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

hmmm, Showa Godzilla had a vulnerability to electricity, and he was still able to knock Kong off! Even if he can't do anything, his partner can just shoot Kong with stingers.
I'm quite confident that I could also manage to get someone who was punching me in the face with a taser removed from my chest. That doesn't change that it's still a nasty method of going about fighting. Besides, you still haven't proven that a monster without thumbs and with stubby (by Ghidorah standards) necks will be able to do ANYTHING other then warble and flail if it was caught in such a position.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was pointing out how pathetic Kong is when he isn't charged. Showa Godzilla has even more impressive feats of strength under his belt, but I don't hear anybody saying he can rip off limbs.
I never once said that Showa Godzilla wasn't a physically impressive fighter, nor do I think Kong can rip limbs apart.

You forgot knocking himself out in a fight
Covered a page back.

and he won't be using any guerilla tactics against two flying opponents.
Whada-buh? Kong shown the smarts to hide, stay quiet, toss projectiles, attempt some sort of hit and run attack, and jam things in an oppoents mouth. Hiding, staying quiet, hit and run tactics, and throwing things will work beond fine against flying opponents; especially when one of them flies like she's sight seeing and goes around as incredibly low altitude.

Combat Ferocity? Kong barely got two punches off before Godzilla rolled over, and they continue wrestling.
I'm not saying combat ferocity = battlefield omnipotence. Being a fierce opponent doesn't mean you instantly over-power your foe, it just means you do things like sit on their chest and punch them in the head with a taser and jam things in their mouthes. it gives you an edge against, say, a three-headed dragon who gets tossed around like a chump whose best plan to not get hurt is to sit on your back, and a moth that swooshes around like she's on a pleasure cruise and only helps when her ally is bleeding.

Ha ha. Looking at the stats, King Ghidorah's attacks are listed as using spectral energy. Last time I checked, Kong absorbs electricity.
and last I checked, cherry bubble gum is red and molotov cocktails burst into splashes of flame.

[Showa Godzilla]

I'm quite confident that I could also manage to get someone who was punching me in the face with a taser removed from my chest. That doesn't change that it's still a nasty method of going about fighting. Besides, you still haven't proven that a monster without thumbs and with stubby (by Ghidorah standards) necks will be able to do ANYTHING other then warble and flail if it was caught in such a position.
If he was caught in such a position, Mothra would be there to attack Kong.

I never once said that Showa Godzilla wasn't a physically impressive fighter, nor do I think Kong can rip limbs apart.
Sorry, must have been somebody else. Some people seemed to think that Kong would be ripping off Ghidorah's necks.

Covered a page back.
yeah, I just enjoy bringing that up :p.


Whada-buh? Kong shown the smarts to hide, stay quiet, toss projectiles, attempt some sort of hit and run attack, and jam things in an oppoents mouth. Hiding, staying quiet, hit and run tactics, and throwing things will work beond fine against flying opponents; especially when one of them flies like she's sight seeing and goes around as incredibly low altitude.
He only hid from Godzilla after Godzilla was knocked down, and wasn't able to chase after him. He isn't going to be running off in the middle of the fight to hide with both guardians attacking him.


I'm not saying combat ferocity = battlefield omnipotence. Being a fierce opponent doesn't mean you instantly over-power your foe, it just means you do things like sit on their chest and punch them in the head with a taser and jam things in their mouthes. it gives you an edge against, say, a three-headed dragon who gets tossed around like a chump whose best plan to not get hurt is to sit on your back, and a moth that swooshes around like she's on a pleasure cruise and only helps when her ally is bleeding.
yes, it does give him the edge in a one on one fight, but he's fighting against both of them. And he won't be flipping King Ghidorah unless he gets charged.


and last I checked, cherry bubble gum is red and molotov cocktails burst into splashes of flame.
Yes, but that isn't what Megalon's napalm bombs are made of according to the stats. Otherwise they would be called molotov cherry bubble gum cocktails, but they're called Napalm bombs/blobs.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Kong's little plan of rushing, tossing a rock and doing a roll around was a good idea. Prove it's not.

The rolling part?

A good idea?

How, exactly?

Was he gonna bulldoze Godzilla?


If a plan doesn't work then it apparently is a bad idea.[/quiote]

Strawman. I never said that every idea that doesn't work is a bad idea. Throwing rocks is fine, except when it is against a very agile flyer in Mothra. Godzilla couldn't beam her when she wanted to avoid his attack. IIRC, she was hit a few times with Godzilla's beam because he lured her close or she was saving KG. He might have hit her once when she tried to avoid it, but beams travel faster than Kong's rock toss.

Besides, you think a rock throw is going to turn the tide against two foes? ;)


[quote]I wouldn't go "haha, stupid. Your little panel doesn't work as well as you say it will!".

Again, rolling at Godzilla was effective...in what way?

Or better yet, how would it help Kong in this fight.

Kong: Let's play bowling?

Mothra: "Hey KG, he does realize we can fly, right?"

I fail at humor, but rolling isn't going to matter her. At all.

Except Mothra gets to close for her own good. She didn't need to get that close, or swoop in that slowly to hit him with her stingers. Mothra flies painfully slow and painfully close to her opponents. Throwing objects probably WOULD be a good idea, infact considering how casually she apparently takes combat.

1) Mothra's typical approach in combat is to stay away, and shoot stingers, OR fly around and behind her target. Kong is going to have to contend with KG on the ground (or maybe in the air) and then Mothra from above.

2) Mothra is ANYTHING but slow. Despite what you believe, Mothra easily avoided Godzilla's beam. That's very fast, and Kong still has to grab her while trying to keep KG off his back.

3) Mothra's slow attack was coming from behind Godzilla.

You still haven't demonstrated how Kong could possibly deal with that kind of sneak attack, or for that matter keep KG off him long enough to start thinking about Mothra.


When? Underwater? Sitting out of arms reach isn't impressive in the least. On land? Godzilla was still pushing him back.

What did Kong do? Stuff a tree down Godzilla's throat?

That's cool and all, but he also spent half the fight bearhugging Godzilla who...wasn't effected in the slightest.

So in both cases, you have Kong and KG wrestling a fellow monster and not doing much else. It is impressive that Kong could swing Godzilla by his tail, but the rest of the time Kong did little damage.

Even when supercharged, I thought Godzilla was winning the fight, and keep i in mind Godzilla should have been weakened by his electric charge.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

The rolling part?

A good idea?

How, exactly?

Was he gonna bulldoze Godzilla?

As far as I can tell it was some sort of hit-and-run attempt. I'm not going to claim that Kong had this elaborate plan that was foiled, but from what I've seen and judging from what he did in separate circumstances, I would imagine it was some sort of hit and run attack. Throw a rock, keep going, dodge to the side, etc.



I never said that every idea that doesn't work is a bad idea. Throwing rocks is fine, except when it is against a very agile flyer in Mothra. Godzilla couldn't beam her when she wanted to avoid his attack.

Watching this scene as I type this. Mothra looks at her opponent, takes PAINFULLY long (and I mean, oh wow, this is embarrassingly prop-like long) to woosh buy like she's trying to pick spaghetti off Godzillas face. All she's going to do against Kong is give him a comb-over. At the speed and altitude she was flying, Kong is just going to snatch her out of the air.

Mothra has only shown agility when pressed into doing so. If she dodged a swat or a tail-whip from Godzilla, then I'd likely be leaning Mothra/Ghidorah.

The poison stingers are potent, but I don't think she'll get a chance to use them. She didn't open with them, and she was never really eager to bring them to the fight more then twice. Even when she was sitting on Godzilla's head, she didn't use them. Which is also a really stupid idea against an opponent that can actually scratch his head.

IIRC, she was hit a few times with Godzilla's beam because he lured her close or she was saving KG. He might have hit her once when she tried to avoid it, but beams travel faster than Kong's rock toss.
I don't think hunks of infrastructure are going to be tide-changers, by any means. But I see it laughably likely that she'll just get swatted with a radio tower or something, where she'll go down.

But I will stick to my point that A) tossed objects are a lot quieter, closer quarters, and more subtle then a huge funnel of bright blue heat.




Or better yet, how would it help Kong in this fight.
What's wrong with keeping moving? Staying low, behind buildings, a quick dodge around an opponents potential blind spot.


1) Mothra's typical approach in combat is to stay away, and shoot stingers, OR fly around and behind her target. Kong is going to have to contend with KG on the ground (or maybe in the air) and then Mothra from above.
Negative. Mothras typical approach is to float in at eye-level, scratch their head, then swoop out of the way, back in, use the stingers once, then sit on your head. This won't work against something that is incredibly enthusiastic to get his grubby monkey hands on her.

2) Mothra is ANYTHING but slow. Despite what you believe, Mothra easily avoided Godzilla's beam. That's very fast, and Kong still has to grab her while trying to keep KG off his back.
Please. Just watch her first "charge"/"meet-n-greet" against Godzilla. That is an utter embarrassment. She looked like she was falling at him.

3) Mothra's slow attack was coming from behind Godzilla.
See above. Also, she only attempted it the second time when she had to in an attempt to keep her ally from being mauled. The first time she tip-toed around she opted to sit on his head.

You still haven't demonstrated how Kong could possibly deal with that kind of sneak attack, or for that matter keep KG off him long enough to start thinking about Mothra.
Kong is aware of his surroundings enough that it will make it considerably more difficult for her to sneak around. Assuming he doesn't just grab her and punch her a bunch. Seriously, being locked in combat with an opponent AND having enough of an awareness to make a tactical retreat to go find a hiding spot shows Kongs mental aptitude.


What did Kong do? Stuff a tree down Godzilla's throat?
It shows Kong acknowledged the threat of Godzilla's breath weapon and an in-the-heat-of-the-moment attempt to solve an issue that would've easily ended with a serious case of no-face. What's keeping Kong from grabbing Mothra and braining her with a radio tower or a train? or holding Ghidorahs head back by sticking a bridge in his mouth(s)?

That's cool and all, but he also spent half the fight bearhugging Godzilla who...wasn't effected in the slightest.
and what did KG do to Godzilla? run at him, pin his arms and neck, shock him, stand around, let him charge back to him, bite into his neck, grab one his head (while one head did NOTHING) and dig his teeth in while Ghidorah took it like a chump. Oh and THEN Mothra came in.

Round II. Sit on him like they were playing horsey. Are you ******** me?

So in both cases, you have Kong and KG wrestling a fellow monster and not doing much else. It is impressive that Kong could swing Godzilla by his tail, but the rest of the time Kong did little damage.
You have Kong, a monster with the capacity to improvise, place an opponent into a position they can't easily remove themselves from, and toss them around. Then you have Ghidorah, whose plan is to take it and hope his plot device gets in the mail in time that Godzilla doesn't use him as a chew toy. Oh, and sit on him.

Even when supercharged, I thought Godzilla was winning the fight, and keep i in mind Godzilla should have been weakened by his electric charge.
Godzilla was clearly bothered by it, why is Kongs boost suppose to end the fight? It's not a RoM movie or a DBZ episode. It stunned and staggered Godzilla.

If he was caught in such a position, Mothra would be there to attack Kong.
When she got around to it. This Mothra isn't much of an ally, outside of being a shield.

He only hid from Godzilla after Godzilla was knocked down, and wasn't able to chase after him. He isn't going to be running off in the middle of the fight to hide with both guardians attacking him.
Why not? Tactical retreat once, seems like a good idea to try it twice.

Yes, but that isn't what Megalon's napalm bombs are made of according to the stats. Otherwise they would be called Molotov cherry bubble gum cocktails, but they're called Napalm bombs/blobs.
That's my point. They look like, act like, and sound like electricity. Megalons napalm looks like Molotov cocktails hidden inside wads of cherry chewing gum.

[Orga777]

Wow. Hybrid is handling this perfectly well without me even needing to step in and add in any little factoids of information. He is covering everything I need to say really... Heck, he made me wish to change to a full vote instead of a Lean vote. XD

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Wow. Hybrid is handling this perfectly well without me even needing to step in and add in any little factoids of information. He is covering everything I need to say really... Heck, he made me wish to change to a full vote instead of a Lean vote. XD
Nice work being disrespectful and spamming.I figured someone who is used to debating with multiple people would show a bit more deceny then that. Maybe you could stop wasting space, delete these two posts and actually counter while Hybrid is off doing whatever it he happens to be doing?

[Orga777]

Nice work being disrespectful and spamming.I figured someone who is used to debating with multiple people would show a bit more deceny then that. Maybe you could stop wasting space, delete these two posts and actually counter while Hybrid is off doing whatever it he happens to be doing?

Meh. Fair enough. I actually found a few things that I don't think Hybrid has addressed yet.

Watching this scene as I type this. Mothra looks at her opponent, takes PAINFULLY long (and I mean, oh wow, this is embarrassingly prop-like long) to woosh buy like she's trying to pick spaghetti off Godzillas face. All she's going to do against Kong is give him a comb-over. At the speed and altitude she was flying, Kong is just going to snatch her out of the air.

Wait, are you talking about her normal flight, or the beam dodged flight? because Mothra was freaking zooming across the screen to dodge that beam. Even her normal flight isn't too horrifically slow though. At least I don't remember it being so. I will have to check again since I did more checking on GMK Goji and GMK Ghidorah in recent years and really didn't pay Mothra much mind except for the beam dodge and the Stingers.

I don't think hunks of infrastructure are going to be tide-changers, by any means. But I see it laughably likely that she'll just get swatted with a radio tower or something, where she'll go down.

And I think that is completely silly. I really don't see King Kong playing baseball using Mothra as a ball. He never showed that ability to do such a thing. Ever.

But I will stick to my point that A) tossed objects are a lot quieter, closer quarters, and more subtle then a huge funnel of bright blue heat.

Also a lot weaker, slower, and a lot less damaging.

and what did KG do to Godzilla? run at him, pin his arms and neck, shock him, stand around, let him charge back to him, bite into his neck, grab one his head (while one head did NOTHING) and dig his teeth in while Ghidorah took it like a chump. Oh and THEN Mothra came in.

Round II. Sit on him like they were playing horsey. Are you ******** me?

What the hell did you expect Ghidorah to do again? GMK Godzilla is an unstoppable monstrosity on all levels. It ignores nearly all damage, it never stops moving, and it get incredible foresight into battle. Ghidorah was completely over matched against a stronger, better opponent. The fact that he even contained GMK Goji speaks of his skill and strength though. It is foolish to just discredit that.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Meh. Fair enough. I actually found a few things that I don't think Hybrid has addressed yet.
Thank you.

Wait, are you talking about her normal flight, or the beam dodged flight? because Mothra was freaking zooming across the screen to dodge that beam. Even her normal flight isn't too horrifically slow though. At least I don't remember it being so. I will have to check again since I did more checking on GMK Goji and GMK Ghidorah in recent years and really didn't pay Mothra much mind except for the beam dodge and the Stingers.
Nono, that's why I said she's only agile or speedy when pressed into it. Watch when she first comes face-to-face with Godzilla.

And I think that is completely silly. I really don't see King Kong playing baseball using Mothra as a ball. He never showed that ability to do such a thing. Ever.
He's shown the ability to use foreign object to his advantage and as weapons. I'm not saying he'll grab a train and ship them around like nunchucks. But Kong is beyond capable of just swinging a train like a big club.

What the hell did you expect Ghidorah to do again? GMK Godzilla is an unstoppable monstrosity on all levels. It ignores nearly all damage, it never stops moving, and it get incredible foresight into battle. Ghidorah was completely over matched against a stronger, better opponent. The fact that he even contained GMK Goji speaks of his skill and strength though. It is foolish to just discredit that.
He could've done ANYTHING but just take it. Ghidorah has an impressive running speed, as far as kaiju go. He could've not let Godzilla stomp at him and moved would've been nice. And I don't know where you're getting this "skill" from. Unless you're counting sitting on someone out of arms reach is a skill now.

[Orga777]

Nono, that's why I said she's only agile or speedy when pressed into it. Watch when she first comes face-to-face with Godzilla.

Fair enough. I think I get what you are saying actually. Mothra does kind of hover their for a bit. But, if she does get attacked, I can see her moving out of the way. The reason she didn't dodge the tail swipe, to me, is because I don't think she even knew Goji was paying attention to her so it aught her by surprise. Remember, she was trying to attack from behind and Goji KNEW she was without even looking at her.

I don't see Kong getting that same luxury.

He's shown the ability to use foreign object to his advantage and as weapons. I'm not saying he'll grab a train and ship them around like nunchucks. But Kong is beyond capable of just swinging a train like a big club.

Do yo really think it would be enough to do much to Mothra though? I have a hard time believing it would.

He could've done ANYTHING but just take it. Ghidorah has an impressive running speed, as far as kaiju go. He could've not let Godzilla stomp at him and moved would've been nice. And I don't know where you're getting this "skill" from. Unless you're counting sitting on someone out of arms reach is a skill now.

Remember, under water Ghidorah was still delivering Electric Bites to Goji. They just weren't doing anything to him at that point. The fact that GMK Ghidorah was able to contain the massive strength in their first clash also shows competance in the strength department despite GMK Godzilla's much more massive size and power.

I just think you may be understating Ghidorah's physical strength in this fight. I don't see Kong being able to match GMK Godzilla in that department, and I have a hard time buying that Kong could just trump Ghidorah in close range.

[bloodyarts]

It boggles my mind that people think Kong wasn't evenly matched with Godzilla BEFORE the boost, then CLEARLY superior afterward. Keep in mind the massive bulk that Godzilla had. I'd dare say he was tougher and more durable than the rest of his showa counterparts whom I remember bleeding a lot. Pit Kong against the later showa versions, and I think the fights would be even MORE in Kong's favor. He was fighting a more massive, larger, walking, radiation-spewing BRICK in that movie, and WON.

I wish I could actively participate in this, but my current situation makes it difficult to research individual feats, so I'd be working strictly from memory.

TVX, I think you're countering all those "LOL Kong!" comments quite deftly, but I honestly think Kong would have a problem facing two flying kaiju. Against either one by himself (or even if he had a flying or projectile-capable ally), you betcha I'd back up Kong.

Hey, how about using PJ's Kong, with relative comparable durability...! He could take on these two chumps by himself! :lightbulb:

Back to lurk mode!

[Inferno Rodan]

According to the official stats, King Ghidorah's shock bite is not electric in nature, and won't power up Kong. Unless I'm told otherwise, that's what I'm going to believe. If GMK Godzilla was getting hurt by his bite attack, you can bet Kong isn't going to find it pleasant.
...Which "official" stats are you looking at? 'Cause the official ones I'm looking at (which are ACTUALLY taken from materials from Toho) call them "Thunder Spark Electric Bite".

[Hybrid Gojira]

Throw a rock, keep going, dodge to the side, etc.

Even so, that wasn't an effective tactic against Godzilla, and more to the point - it won't be here. Kong gets props for hiding behind a rock and blindisding Godzilla, but that type of move requires distance between you and your foe, or at least a chance to get away.For Kong to use hit and run type attacks, he needs superior mobility or a way to mask his location from KG/Mothra.

Good luck rolling faster than Mothra can fly.


At the speed and altitude she was flying, Kong is just going to snatch her out of the air.

Doubtful.

Kong might have the strength to pull her out of the air, but against two opponents? He still has to contend with KG in order to grab Mothra even one time.

Mothra has only shown agility when pressed into doing so. If she dodged a swat or a tail-whip from Godzilla, then I'd likely be leaning Mothra/Ghidorah.

How is dodging Kong's arms not pressing Mothra to be agile? Face it, Mothra was trying to blindside Godzilla. She wasn't exopecting he knew where she was, where as Kong will never see her coming because he is dealing with KG. Godzilla apparently has some crazy ability to sense his foes - he attacked Mothra when she was behind him twice.

After reading the rest of the post, I think this entire debate revolves around one important factor you haven't really addressed:

How is Kong going to deal with BOTH monsters at once? Were this Kong going one-on-one, I'd certainly consider your points to be more valid. Kong could focus on just one monster rather than worrying about two.

Kong can pull Mothra out of the sky, maybe. I'll agree he has the strength to do so, except he now to worry about Ghidorah mauling him at the same time he decides to grab Mothra. We also know that Mothra loves to bail Ghidorah out of trouble should Kong ever present a threat, and Kong has no way to fight both monsters on once because he has no beam and no uncanny ability to split in half.

The rest of the debate is in the smaller details, which matter less against two foes who can both fly, one of which loves to attack from blind spots.

So tell me why Kong can suddenly fight both monsters at once? His strength is probably not on par with GMK Godzilla, and KG is strong enough to fare as well as Showa Godzilla did against Kong.

Meanwhile, KG also has Mothra on his side just lurking to attack.

Ultimately Kong is losing because he is fighting 2 on 1. If you can't justify his ability to fight both at the same time, you can't prove Kong will win.

[Showa Godzilla]

...Which "official" stats are you looking at? 'Cause the official ones I'm looking at (which are ACTUALLY taken from materials from Toho) call them "Thunder Spark Electric Bite".

The official stats for the Desumacchi: http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20919

It boggles my mind that people think Kong wasn't evenly matched with Godzilla BEFORE the boost, then CLEARLY superior afterward. Keep in mind the massive bulk that Godzilla had. I'd dare say he was tougher and more durable than the rest of his showa counterparts whom I remember bleeding a lot. Pit Kong against the later showa versions, and I think the fights would be even MORE in Kong's favor. He was fighting a more massive, larger, walking, radiation-spewing BRICK in that movie, and WON.

Despite how awesome the King-Goji suit was, he definitely wasn't the most powerful Showa Godzilla. Godzilla only bled twice in the Showa series, from Gigan's buzz-saw, and Mechagodzilla's weapons. Near the end of the Showa series, Godzilla had become a much better hth fighter. He was using martial arts like moves on his opponents, as opposed to just wrestling with them and tail whipping them. His beam also got a lot stronger as the series went on. King Kong would've got his furry *** handed to him if he went up against Showa Godzilla at the end of the series. Not even his electricity could have saved him, because Godzilla had built up an immunity to it.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

I'm not going to drag this out, the match has been decided. But I would just like to clarify one point before this thread gets locked. One of my main reasons for not siding with KG and Mothra was because of Mothra's poor showing as a teammate. She wasn't in the thick of it like, say, Anguirus or Rodan, she was shocklingly unwilling to aid Ghidorah until she absalutely had too. This is something I didn't really elaborate on.

Anywho, good debate! Can't wait for Round 2 to kick off. : D