09. Guiron vs. Megaguirus

[Battle Master]

Guiron (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21139)
vs.
Megaguirus (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21120)
-
Battlefield: Faro Island (http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showpost.php?p=333082&postcount=9)

[The Great MM]

So Megaguirus stabs her stinger into Guiron and absorbs.....

Uhh... Nothing.

Guiron then gets pissed and cuts her apart. Meggy would have to nickle and dime him to death and that ain't happening. His shuriken are faster than Godzilla's ray, and smaller, so I don't see her dodging them both at once.

And god forbid if he leaps at her...

[Hybrid Gojira]

This fight is really interesting. Both monsters MUST fight up close. Megeguirus has shown the ability to move quickly around her foe in an attempt to jab the stinger...

But Guiron can cut her in half in about .02 seconds if given the chance. If Magaguirus makes one mistake, she loses. She has to fight and stay out of Guiron's range for the entire battle, and I do not know if she is that good.

[Husnock]

If she tries to stay out of his range, then she'll accomplish nothing in the way of hurting him. She HAS to risk getting close.

[Hybrid Gojira]

If she tries to stay out of his range, then she'll accomplish nothing in the way of hurting him. She HAS to risk getting close.

Erm, I meant range of his knife attack. I.e. attack from behind or side, etc.

[Husnock]

Erm, I meant range of his knife attack. I.e. attack from behind or side, etc.

True, but with his practiced backflips, that'll be something of a challenge.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Yeah I couldn't remember how effective those were. Even so, Megaguirus is pretty fast.

[Orga777]

So Megaguirus stabs her stinger into Guiron and absorbs.....

Uhh... Nothing.

Bodily fluids is "nothing?"

Anyway, people are getting one very imortant fact confused here... Guiron is ****ed the moment the stinger is impaled into his body. HOW will he get Megaguirus off of him again? Megaguirus is a kaiju that was physically strong enough to life GXM Godzilla off his feet and easily toss him away, and unlike GXM Godzilla who has razor sharp spines that protect his prone back from being stuck with no way to defend himself, Guiron has no such advantage. Once that needle goes right into his back and Megaguirus uses all ehr strength to keep Guiron in one place all that will result is a quick lunch. It doesn't help that Guiron lacks regen which saved GXM Godzilla's hide.

Now on the other end of things, Guiron has pretty good reaction time and is deadly with that knife. It won't take too much for Megaguirus to be slashed apart by that blade. Problem is that Megaguirus is pretty quick herself. It does help that Guiron is lower to the ground as well, but 6/10 times I see this going to Megaguirus who can get a drop on her opponent more than Guiron can.

Leaning: Megaguirus

[Zardac the Great]

I have to agree with Orga here.

[Seer235]

Guiron's got a good (maybe?) blade, but Megaguirus can easily dodge that in superspeed. Of course, that leads to a stalemate until Megs gets close.

Gives me two thoughts. First, Guiron noticing Megs is sneaking up on him and doing a backflip attack, or second, Megs stabbing Guiron with the stinger.

Now, what could Guiron do if Megs gets him in the side with her stinger?

[Zardac the Great]

I'd assume he'd throw a ninja star, but I don't know if he can shoot sideways.

I also don't see them killing the dragonfly.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Seer235
Now, what could Guiron do if Megs gets him in the side with her stinger?

Why did she never try that against Goji, however?

She had multiple angles to strike him from, all of which would have been way safer than attacking Godzilla while staring him in the face, but she never tried anything crafty or unorthodox. In fact, she only attempted to use that stringer 3 times throughout the whole fight; for about 90% of it she was just beating him up with physical attacks.

This fight with Guiron is far from cut and dry.

[Seer235]

She did try to attack GXM from behind at least once, and the spikes made striking from the back generally a difficult thing to do. Against Guiron, the easiest spots to penetrate would be in the side.

That said, I would agree that Megaguirus definitely does not have a distinct advantage here.

[Hybrid Gojira]

I just rewatched the Guiron fight.

Basically, Guiron always heads directly at Gamera who let's him. The fighting is really slow until Guiron decides to try and attack, and it usually works but Gamera has his shell to counter. It should be noted that Guiron's blade cut through solid rock with no problems. That thing is gnarly.

Regardless, The fight that is really important here is the one between Guiron and Gyaos. The initial attack made by Gyaos in the air is straight forward attack - the exact same type of attack Megaguirus leads with against Godzilla. No supersonic speeds, no sudden change of direction, just a straight shot at Godzilla.

That kind of attack will get Megaguirus killed in the first 10 seconds of the round, no hyperbole. She's screwed without her wings.

Further, Megaguirus' ability to move at incredible speeds is NOT something she can simply do whenever. It actually took a few seconds for her to get moving fast. It was kinda like her wings had to charge up or something.

Megaguirus attacks from two primary positions: the front and back. That is really it. All of her grappling was done from the front. She tried her stinger attack twice from the front, and once from the back which Goji countered.

For those who think a sneak attack is easy to pull off against Guiron, think again. There is a scene which Gamera impales Guiron's blade into solid rock, temporarily stopping him from moving. Gamera is directly behind Guiron, so he shouldn't be able to see him. Then Guiron shoots with pin point accuracy two shurikens into GAmera's face. It appears Guiron has crazy line of sight. If Megaguirus tries a sneak attack from behind, Guiron CAN see it coming.

The way Megaguirus fights plays right into the knife of Guiron.

Winner: Guiron

[Orga777]

Regardless, The fight that is really important here is the one between Guiron and Gyaos. The initial attack made by Gyaos in the air is straight forward attack - the exact same type of attack Megaguirus leads with against Godzilla. No supersonic speeds, no sudden change of direction, just a straight shot at Godzilla.

Even not going Hyper Sonic, Megaguirus is infinitely faster than shown by any version of Showa Gyaos.

That kind of attack will get Megaguirus killed in the first 10 seconds of the round, no hyperbole. She's screwed without her wings.

If Guiron can hit. Unlike Space Gyaos, Megs isn't just going to stand there and let it happen.

Megaguirus attacks from two primary positions: the front and back. That is really it. All of her grappling was done from the front. She tried her stinger attack twice from the front, and once from the back which Goji countered.

Yes. Against a kaiju that is upright and easier to attack from both the front and back. Guiron is not GXM Godzilla here. There will be more attacks ready to go on Guiron's open sides. Hell, Megs only needs to impale Guiron from behind and that is the match right there. Guiron has no way to get Megs off her at all.

For those who think a sneak attack is easy to pull off against Guiron, think again. There is a scene which Gamera impales Guiron's blade into solid rock, temporarily stopping him from moving. Gamera is directly behind Guiron, so he shouldn't be able to see him. Then Guiron shoots with pin point accuracy two shurikens into GAmera's face. It appears Guiron has crazy line of sight. If Megaguirus tries a sneak attack from behind, Guiron CAN see it coming.

Goody. The Shuriken are pretty impressive. But unless it is going to hit a joint area inbetween the armor Megaguirus has, then I really don't see anything happening to her. Megaguirus' defenses too GXM Godzilla JUMPING from rather high hights without being effected what so ever and the only real reason that spine sliced off the claw is because it managed to get inbetween the plates of her armor and get it at the joint.

While I agree it is not a cut and dry match, all advantages go to Megaguirus who is faster, physically stronger, much more durable, and has quicker movements.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Even not going Hyper Sonic, Megaguirus is infinitely faster than shown by any version of Showa Gyaos.

That goes without saying. I never said Megs was slow. I said that Megaguirus flies directly at her foe in a straight line. She has no idea a slow looking Guiron can leap very quickly at her. Plus, the closer she gets to Guiron the less distance he needs to close to attack her and the less time she has to react. When she is traveling right at him, will she expect a flying dagger attack?Godzillas beam might travel fast, but it does have a long charge time, yes?

If Guiron can hit. Unlike Space Gyaos, Megs isn't just going to stand there and let it happen.

Megaguirus is actually quite agile in the air, but she does tend to hover in one spot. Even so, her attacks always come from the back or front.

Yes. Against a kaiju that is upright and easier to attack from both the front and back.

:eyebrow:

How? How is it easier to attack a bipedal kaiju from the front or back than it is from the sides?

:dontgetit

Megaguirus is fast enough to attack from any direction she chooses, but not once does she attack from the side (IIRC). Well, I guess you could argue that she attacked from an angle one time...

Even then, attacking Godzilla from the front is the worst idea if you have the option to choose otherwise. It didn't seem to work well when she got impaled into the ground or lost her stinger, did it? Yet the position Megs found herself in for the majority of the fight was directly in front of Godzilla.

Guiron is not GXM Godzilla here. There will be more attacks ready to go on Guiron's open sides. Hell, Megs only needs to impale Guiron from behind and that is the match right there. Guiron has no way to get Megs off her at all.

Again, Megaguirus never shows the tendency to attack from all directions. I'm not saying she can't, but the chances she will are pretty remote. Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that Guiron has incredible vision. He saw Gamera who was directly behind him and shot him in the face. The Shurikens don't shoot in a straight path; it looks to me like they curve. This means Guiron's aim is really, really solid, even if you're directly behind him.

This also means an attack from the side, though unlikely as it may be, will also be seen by Guiron.


Goody. The Shuriken are pretty impressive. But unless it is going to hit a joint area inbetween the armor Megaguirus has, then I really don't see anything happening to her.

I never considered the armor Megauirus had to be impressive. Godzilla broke her stinger and cut off her limb. I realize the argument you're making is that Godzilla just happened to cut between her exoskeleton, but I'm not entirely sure I buy that. I'll look again, but even if that is true what is to say the armor would resist the Shurikens enough to stop them from penetrating? We know Gamera's shell is insanely hard, and that is the one thing they couldn't penetrate.

Megaguirus' defenses too GXM Godzilla JUMPING from rather high hights without being effected what so ever and the only real reason that spine sliced off the claw is because it managed to get inbetween the plates of her armor and get it at the joint.

Surviving a flying body slam doesn't mean you have great defenses. It doesn't prove how the Shurikens would bounce off the exoskeleton.

Showa Ghidorah survived a tumble off a cliff. So did Kong, and he bounced off the rocks on the way down. Twice. Kong has no armor to speak of, either.

Also, you're really mistaken if you think Guion can't shoot the Skurikens at Megs if she did manage to jab him. Guiron can, and will. If that happens, I don't see Megs holding on for very long. When Godzilla did damage her Megs seemed to be so shocked from the pain she opened herself up for more attacks.

Come to think of it, Megs never reacted well when she took damage. Anytime Godzilla countered and landed a signifcant hit, Megaguirus just kind of...flew in place. And then got beamed. Or in this case, diced.

[Inferno Rodan]

Guiron got his head blown off by a missile that could barely destroy a building. His blade also never cut through anything that showed any level of durability. And if Megs gets her stinger in him, he's boned.

Definitely siding with Megs.

[Orga777]

That goes without saying. I never said Megs was slow. I said that Megaguirus flies directly[i/] at her foe in a straight line. She has no idea a slow looking Guiron can leap very quickly at her. Plus, the closer she gets to Guiron the less distance he needs to close to attack her and the less time she has to react. When she is traveling right at him, will she expect a flying dagger attack?Godzillas beam might travel fast, but it does have a long charge time, yes?

GXM Godzilla's beam charge time varies. Most of them are just normal shots.

Megaguirus is actually quite agile in the air, but she does tend to hover in one spot. Even so, her attacks always come from the back or front.

And? Megaguirus isn't THAT incompetent to attack a giant knife head on, especially against a target low to the ground. The only real area to attack is either the side or the back. Personally I see her going for the back and ending the fight right there.

Even then, attacking Godzilla from the front is the [I]worst idea if you have the option to choose otherwise. It didn't seem to work well when she got impaled into the ground or lost her stinger, did it? Yet the position Megs found herself in for the majority of the fight was directly in front of Godzilla.

Where else was she going to attack. The back? Impossible due to the spines. The sides? GXM Goji may be a clutz, but he can easily get her off his side just as easily as he got her off his front. Remember, unlike Heisei Godzilla, GXM Godzilla has more range with his arms.

I never considered the armor Megauirus had to be impressive. Godzilla broke her stinger and cut off her limb. I realize the argument you're making is that Godzilla just happened to cut between her exoskeleton, but I'm not entirely sure I buy that. I'll look again, but even if that is true what is to say the armor would resist the Shurikens enough to stop them from penetrating? We know Gamera's shell is insanely hard, and that is the one thing they couldn't penetrate.

1) A stinger is NOT armor. 2) The only reason the claw came off is, because once again, the spine coupled with Megs incredible speed, sliced it off AT THE JOINT. Which is also unarmored. Oh, speaking of the stinger, yeah, it was bitten off by GXM Godzilla, but when impaled into solid concrete, and not too gently either, it didn't do ****. Also, do I have to again reiterate tyhat GXM Godzilla jumped that landed directly onto Megagirus with his full weight did absolutely nothing at all? Megaguirus may be flammable, but she can take a physical pounding like the best of them.


Surviving a flying body slam doesn't mean you have great defenses. It doesn't prove how the Shurikens would bounce off the exoskeleton.

Body slam? I think you are confused. It is more like if someone twice your weight jumped on top of you from the roof of a building while you were on the ground, and you getting up like nothing happened.

Also, you're really mistaken if you think Guion can't shoot the Skurikens at Megs if she did manage to jab him. Guiron can, and will. If that happens, I don't see Megs holding on for very long. When Godzilla did damage her Megs seemed to be so shocked from the pain she opened herself up for more attacks.

Not really. Most of the time Goji just managed to get the stinger out of his body. Guiron will be incapable of such a feat at all. The Shuriken better get her in the eyes or a joint to do anything for that to happen.

Come to think of it, Megs never reacted well when she took damage. Anytime Godzilla countered and landed a signifcant hit, Megaguirus just kind of...flew in place. And then got beamed. Or in this case, diced.

Yeah. When her stigner was bitten off. You know, the thing that keeps her ALIVE. Without it she would die from starvation. OF COURSE she will float there after such an injury. It ends her only means of actually getting the food supply she needs. It would be like taking the fangs and claws off a wolf. It isn't going to get far.

[Zardac the Great]

I was going to ask if the octopus would be a threat to either combatant, but then I remembered who it would be fighting.


Fried psuedo-Calamari tailback party on battlenight!

[Burkion]

Fun. Two monsters I care nothing for.

Eh, screw it, Gurion wins.

[SpaceHunterM]

Fun. Two monsters I care nothing for.

Eh, screw it, Gurion wins.

God I wish I could get away with posts like that considering I share the same apathy/annoyance with these two :p


Abstaining because I Megs is dumb enough to lose, but has the ability to win

[KaijuKing]

This could go either way, but it seems like Megaguirus' superior mobility would give her the edge. Guiron's leaping ability could be problematic, though. This really comes down to whoever gets the first good hit with their main weapon. One solid slice or sting and it's over.

I don't know. I think I'll Abstain on this one.

[Super Angillas]

Don't sell Meg's short here. She does have very good reflexes. Just about every hit, if not every hit Goji got on her involved trapping her or luring her in. If she attacks from the front it helps the giant Ginsu a lot. But I don't think she's dumb enough to do that. The surikens are a little trickier, but it depends on whether or not she's got a little room to dodge them. It's been a little while since I've seen Guiron's movie, but if I remember correctly those Shuriken only sunk into Gamera's sking, I don't think they penetrated his shell. And piercing Gamera's skin is hardly something to brag about. So it all depends on wether or not Guiron can get a hit in with his head blade before he gets killed. Now Megs attacked Goji from the front because she wanted to sink her stinger in his belly. It's a soft spot, and has lots of important organs. The sides aren't as good a target because it's a bit narrower, and the ribs come down. If it weren't for his regen, Godzilla would have spent the rest of the fight with a hole in his guts. Guiron doesn't have regen. It'll be harder for Her to target a soft spot with Guiron's stance, but not imposible.

[Hybrid Gojira]

^ Megs also doesn't have regen. She also attacks from the front.

Ask Gyaos how not having regen and attacking from the front worked out for him.

[Orga777]

^ Megs also doesn't have regen. She also attacks from the front.

Right... Because the back was so wide open on GXM Godzilla. Guess what? Megaguirus is going to go for the easiest par to drain energy. That is Guiron's completely prone back. And guess what? The lack of regen goes both ways. I REALLY don't see Guiron fighting effectively after getting a huge portion of his bodily fluids now in Megaguirus' belly. It will slow him down like all living creatures lacking blood. It only gets easier even IF Guiron finds a way to get Megs off his back.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Bleh, nothing new going on in this debate.

I'm still voting for Guiron because the way Megs fights plays right into his hands.

[Orga777]

Bleh, nothing new going on in this debate.

I'm still voting for Guiron because the way Megs fights plays right into his hands.

I really do think you are underestimating Megaguirus too much. I just don't see Guiron doing much consistently to get the vote from me. He may be impressive, but Megs is better in almost all categories.

At least I can understand your vote here though, unlike in the Orga vs. GFW Ang fight. :p

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Seer235
She did try to attack GXM from behind at least once, and the spikes made striking from the back generally a difficult thing to do.

Which was a terribly executed action on her part. Attacking him from any angle where he's 90% protected is silly enough; doing it at the same speed as my 95 year old grandma sprints is on a grand level of stupidity.

I highly doubt that would fly [pun] against Guiron.

[Angirus7899]

i think Megagurius will win because her speed and her attacks can prove deadly. Guiron has ninja stars and a blade head but if megaguirus can dodge them then its all over for Guiron.


Edge Megaguirus

[Showa Godzilla]

I'm going to have to abstain for this match. I can see Megaguirus sucking Guiron dry, just as easily as I can see her making a mistake and get sliced by Guiron.