With Toho's G-flick and Legendary's pic coming under way...

[mattman]

I'd like to call it, "Godzilla Warfare".

It is the best term to describe this situation.

[Bruticus]

Quoth Captain Gordon, "Nah, you're wrong." From the thread pinned at the top of this board:

And for anyone who still thinks Fiore Mastracci's claims may be legit, here's the official word from Shozo Watanabe of Toho...

"Toho does not have a plan to produce or release its own Godzilla movie at present."

[EliteAztec]

The next Toho Godzilla movie won't be coming out until at least 2014.

[Shin lvl2 Goji]

Can we move this thread to the "What If" forum with a small title change? I think there are some interesting discussions to be had about what would happen if there were two Godzilla series running side by side.



Imagine if Toho did a picture one year then Legendary the next, then maybe a break year and then Toho would do their next entry and it would continue like that.

How much would each series be influenced by the other? Would they even acknowledge each other?

What about thoughts on if they worked in the same universe? How would it work? Would it even work, period?




I think some competition would be very healthy if it were ever to happen personally.

[Excelsior]

The next Toho Godzilla movie won't be coming out until at least 2014.

Toho put Godzilla on a similar hiatus post-Destoroyah, but the release of the Sony G pushed up their timetable. I wouldn't be surprised to see them fast-track their own G after Legendary's, either to ride the momentum if the new one is good or to show the world how Godzilla should be done if it's bad.

[kpa]

Quoth Captain Gordon, "Nah, you're wrong." From the thread pinned at the top of this board:

And that's why I wish some fans and sites wouldn't rush to repeat every rumor, particularly a rumor that was so obviously untrue. It just confuses other fans who read it and think a false story is real news.

Following up on Shin lvl2 Goji's post; we had a similar discussion on Toho Kingdom so I can repeat what I posted there. My apologies for the length but it's a combination of several posts in a multi-page thread...

I think a lot of fans— particularly those outside Japan— don’t realize that Toho is not so much a movie studio now as they are a conglomerate with many business divisions. Toho used to make their own movies "in house" with their own studio employees, but they don't really do that these days. Instead they invest in and/or partner with other companies in exchange for certain rights (such as theatrical distribution or home video) for the films being produced... look at most of the movies Toho has released in the past several years (20TH CENTURY BOYS, K-20, ALWAYS, SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO, etc) and you'll see they were made by "Film Partners" or "Film Committees" of which Toho is just a part.

The Godzilla movies are different; they were always "Toho productions" made without outside Japanese partners, so if Toho were to revive Godzilla they would have to go back to the old system or share rights on the next film with other Japanese companies (which they’ve never done before).

In recent years Toho paved over the Big Pool and has sold off much of their film studio space... the land was worth more to them as real estate (it was turned into homes and shopping centers) than for film production. They still have a dozen or so sound stages which do get used (SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO was partially filmed there) but its a much different setup now. In 2008 Toho tore down their side studio Toho Built, which is where Tsuburaya Productions shot most of their Ultraman shows.

Since they stopped making Godzilla movies, Toho has spent the last six years at the top of the Japanese box office. For three consecutive years they earned record-breaking profits. Toho is a business and their main motivation is profits, and there’s not a big financial motivation right now for them to change what they’re doing these days.

Back in the 1990s, the Godzilla films were big box office draws in Japan. Even so, Toho planned to end the series in 1993 since Sony would be making the American GODZILLA movie. Toho had no plans to do a film in 1994— the 1993 MECHAGODZILLA was promoted by Toho as their 40th anniversary Godzilla film— but the development of Sony’s film stalled so Toho decided to make another movie. Once the American movie started moving forward Toho ended their series with DESTOROYAH. And Toho only made GODZILLA 2000 because Sony delayed (and eventually canceled) development of GODZILLA 2. Toho later acknowledged it was a mistake to bring Godzilla back so quickly.

If the Legendary deal for the new film is anything like what Toho had with Sony, Toho is getting paid a licensing fee every year (that's pure profit with no financial risk on their end) and they stand to make $100 million + in merchandising, percentages, and international distribution if the movie is released. On the other hand, TOKYO SOS brought in about $6 million in profits at the box office while FINAL WARS lost money and did poorly with merchandising. I can't see Toho looking at those figures and thinking they're worth potentially messing up what they have in place now with Legendary. And even if they could make a new film, that would mean they’d be spending their own money to compete with themselves for profits.

There's a VERY slim chance the anniversary might motivate Toho to try to put out a new movie if the Legendary project were put on hold... but as long as Legendary is in development Toho will most likely leave well enough alone.

The other possibility I can maybe see is for a Japanese director with box office clout convincing Toho to make a Godzilla film... but once the Legendary deal is done. Takashi Yamazaki would be a good example, he's a Godzilla fan, he has a background in FX, he is a Japanese Academy Award-winner for ALWAYS, and has made box office hits like the ALWAYS films and the new SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO movie. If someone like that approached Toho about Godzilla they'd probably jump at the chance. But that hasn't happened yet, and there’s no signs of that happening.

This doesn’t mean Toho will never make another Godzilla movie, but I think fans should consider all the factors rather than just assuming another film is likely because an anniversary is coming up. Things can always change, but I suspect Toho is not going to do anything for the foreseeable future except sit back and let the Legendary money roll in.

[Jacob Kaiju]

And that's why I wish some fans and sites wouldn't rush to repeat every rumor, particularly a rumor that was so obviously untrue. It just confuses other fans who read it and think a false story is real news.

Following up on Shin lvl2 Goji's post; we had a similar discussion on Toho Kingdom so I can repeat what I posted there. My apologies for the length but it's a combination of several posts in a multi-page thread...

I think a lot of fans— particularly those outside Japan— don’t realize that Toho is not so much a movie studio now as they are a conglomerate with many business divisions. Toho used to make their own movies "in house" with their own studio employees, but they don't really do that these days. Instead they invest in and/or partner with other companies in exchange for certain rights (such as theatrical distribution or home video) for the films being produced... look at most of the movies Toho has released in the past several years (20TH CENTURY BOYS, K-20, ALWAYS, SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO, etc) and you'll see they were made by "Film Partners" or "Film Committees" of which Toho is just a part.

The Godzilla movies are different; they were always "Toho productions" made without outside Japanese partners, so if Toho were to revive Godzilla they would have to go back to the old system or share rights on the next film with other Japanese companies (which they’ve never done before).

In recent years Toho paved over the Big Pool and has sold off much of their film studio space... the land was worth more to them as real estate (it was turned into homes and shopping centers) than for film production. They still have a dozen or so sound stages which do get used (SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO was partially filmed there) but its a much different setup now. In 2008 Toho tore down their side studio Toho Built, which is where Tsuburaya Productions shot most of their Ultraman shows.

Since they stopped making Godzilla movies, Toho has spent the last six years at the top of the Japanese box office. For three consecutive years they earned record-breaking profits. Toho is a business and their main motivation is profits, and there’s not a big financial motivation right now for them to change what they’re doing these days.

Back in the 1990s, the Godzilla films were big box office draws in Japan. Even so, Toho planned to end the series in 1993 since Sony would be making the American GODZILLA movie. Toho had no plans to do a film in 1994— the 1993 MECHAGODZILLA was promoted by Toho as their 40th anniversary Godzilla film— but the development of Sony’s film stalled so Toho decided to make another movie. Once the American movie started moving forward Toho ended their series with DESTOROYAH. And Toho only made GODZILLA 2000 because Sony delayed (and eventually canceled) development of GODZILLA 2. Toho later acknowledged it was a mistake to bring Godzilla back so quickly.

If the Legendary deal for the new film is anything like what Toho had with Sony, Toho is getting paid a licensing fee every year (that's pure profit with no financial risk on their end) and they stand to make $100 million + in merchandising, percentages, and international distribution if the movie is released. On the other hand, TOKYO SOS brought in about $6 million in profits at the box office while FINAL WARS lost money and did poorly with merchandising. I can't see Toho looking at those figures and thinking they're worth potentially messing up what they have in place now with Legendary. And even if they could make a new film, that would mean they’d be spending their own money to compete with themselves for profits.

There's a VERY slim chance the anniversary might motivate Toho to try to put out a new movie if the Legendary project were put on hold... but as long as Legendary is in development Toho will most likely leave well enough alone.

The other possibility I can maybe see is for a Japanese director with box office clout convincing Toho to make a Godzilla film... but once the Legendary deal is done. Takashi Yamazaki would be a good example, he's a Godzilla fan, he has a background in FX, he is a Japanese Academy Award-winner for ALWAYS, and has made box office hits like the ALWAYS films and the new SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO movie. If someone like that approached Toho about Godzilla they'd probably jump at the chance. But that hasn't happened yet, and there’s no signs of that happening.

This doesn’t mean Toho will never make another Godzilla movie, but I think fans should consider all the factors rather than just assuming another film is likely because an anniversary is coming up. Things can always change, but I suspect Toho is not going to do anything for the foreseeable future except sit back and let the Legendary money roll in.


A bit off topic, but my curiousity has been raised. So, Toho took down the "big pool", so that means pretty much all the water effects are done digitally.

If so, does that mean we probably get a pure CGI_Godzilla the next time Toho makes a film?

[X-SOLDIER]

@kpa: If nothing else, the thread was worth it just to read that super-informative post about Toho.


X :cool:

[kpa]

A bit off topic, but my curiousity has been raised. So, Toho took down the "big pool", so that means pretty much all the water effects are done digitally.

For some of the more recent water shots in the Godzilla films, the scenes were filmed in a smaller pool and then enhanced digitally or composited into real locations.

If so, does that mean we probably get a pure CGI_Godzilla the next time Toho makes a film?

Not necessarily. It's impossible to predict what Toho may or may not do many years from now, but they have said repeatedly the monster suits are key factor in what makes Godzilla Godzilla and that won't be abandoned.


@kpa: If nothing else, the thread was worth it just to read that super-informative post about Toho.


X :cool:

Thanks!

[Persus]

Nor should the suits be abandoned in the Toho versions. They are quintessentially part of what makes the series so great. The digital medium may jump of the screen as more realistic but it has no warmth or real character, not in the way suitmation give Godzilla character due to the Actors within.

A combination of both is always the best outcome IMHO.

As for Toho never making another Godzilla film. Well for the reasons explained above that may be the correct decision from a business point of view. But as a fan I would imagine it unthinkable we don't see anything from them or in partnership come 2014and also a little sad.

[DinoGeekProductions]

Nor should the suits be abandoned in the Toho versions.
It was the Toho versions kpa was talking about. The new USA film will probably be purely CGI since the American viewing public has been thoroughly convinced that CGI is the only viable visual effect technique (Right, because they're SO sophisticated :dozing:).

And I will agree that I'm glad the suits won't be absent from future Toho productions. Many laugh at the notion of a man in a monster suit, but Toho perfected their craft, and they did it better than anyone. I am of the firm opinion that no one has ever made a better monster movie than Toho Co. Ltd., or Daiei.

[BS Digital Q]

I do tire of the CGI bashing sometimes....

[DinoGeekProductions]

I do tire of the CGI bashing sometimes....
It's not the CGI I dislike, it's people's attitudes towards CGI as if it's the best thing since sliced bread. I like to think everything has some right to exist. If I'm displeased with the new Godzilla, it won't be because it was CG.

[BS Digital Q]

I'm just curious, but where exactly do you see this, outside of brain-dead retards on the internet? Where do you see such an attitude direct from the moviemakers themselves?

Granted, there's always gonna be ignorant *******s, but seriously, I really do tire of the fandom's attitude against CG.

[DinoGeekProductions]

I'm just curious, but where exactly do you see this, outside of brain-dead retards on the internet? Where do you see such an attitude direct from the moviemakers themselves?

Granted, there's always gonna be ignorant *******s, but seriously, I really do tire of the fandom's attitude against CG.
I know. I'm sorry. I try to be level-headed and see both sides of the issue, but I have a tendancy to be over-zealous (please hold off on the hilarious demotivational pictures). Mostly I see it from reading film reviews. Some of which are baffling. . . They're allegedly legitament, but I'm beginning to suspect there's no such thing as a legitament film critic. I could provide a link, but that probably wouldn't work to my favor.

I'll try to keep my uninformed opinions to myself from hereonout before I get into trouble (come to think of it, I may be too late).