Majin vs. Mr. Stay Puff!

[The Great MM]

Thanks Ang55 for the idea!!!

Majin vs. Mr. Stay Puff

Arena: New York City

Rules: Both are the same size

Who Will Win...

[Zearatul]

It's a tough one but Mr.Stay-Puft will just keep regenerating till' eventually Majin cracks. That'll be a very long time though, if at all. I think we can count this as a tie.

[Soundwave]

But Majin can set the marshmallow dude on fire >_> Or make it rain to drench th' dude and keep bombarding him with lightning... >_>

[anguirus55]

If anyone can banish Gozer back to hell, it's Majin, but presumably Gozer can reincarnate if its mere physical form is somehow destroyed. Also, if Majin sets him aflame he can blast the flames right back. This is a battle of spirits, really.

[Melkor]

I'm betting my money on Majin, if only because of his excellent elemental control and his ability to say, 'Go to hell' to someone and actually do it. I think Mr. Stay Puft or Gozer or whoever will eventually result to picking new Avatars, but then again, Majin is a god, and the god of retribution he is. I'm with anguirus on this one, it really seems like a battle of spirits-- in this case, I give it to Majin, as his spirit form just seems to be on a totally different league than Gozer/Mt. Stay Puft.



Peace,



Melkor



:darklord:

[anguirus55]

I give it to Majin, as his spirit form just seems to be on a totally different league than Gozer/Mt. Stay Puft.


Well, I'm not too sure...Gozer is a demigod on a world-ending apocalypse-causing dogs-and-cats-living-together level, while Majin, while powerful, is more like a village protection spirit. So I really don't know.

[Zillamon51]

Stone meets marshmallow ... SPLAT!

Mr. Staypuft had better hope DaiMajin is diabetic.

[Saruman]

^Dude, did you read any of the above post? Reread and then post your opinion. Just clearing up that Gozer (whom Mr.Stay-Puft is an avatar of) is a DEMI-GOD!!! Mr.Stay-Puft was created to DESTROY THE WORLD!!! Just pointing this out to all of you. Please continue to post now that ye hath been informed. Thanks.

Notice the difference here?

Stay-Puft = Demi-God

DaiMajin = GOD!!!

There is a very serious level of difference between the two and it's in DaiMajins favor.

[Aragorn_Strider22]

Point taken but what of Daijamin's regenerative abilities?

He doesn't need them. He's invulnerable to Marshmellow's attacks.

[Zearatul]

^And Mr.Stay-Puft regenerates at such a ridiculous rate that it's not even funny... then we have the whole "I'm rubber, your glue" thing to go into... still if anything can crack Daijamin then Gozer would know. Oh Gozer would know... :darklord:

[anguirus55]

He doesn't need them. He's invulnerable to Marshmellow's attacks.

We don't even know hat Gozer is capable of in this form, other than his control over fire. Much like we don't see all of what Majin can do. Assuming either way that it's a slaughter is sloppy thinking, they are both extraordinarily powerful spirits.

[Zigra]

Are we going by movie canon or cartoon canon for Stay Puft? In the Ghostbusters cartoon, Stay Puft was apparently nothing more than a minion of Gozer, rather than "her" avatar. Also, you'll notice that when Gozer spoke of choosing a form for the Destructor, he/she spoke of the "Destructor" as if it was a completely seperate entity.


Anyway, if the Ghostbusters could beat Stay Puft, I don't see my favorite GB villian/anti-hero standing a chance against Majin. Majin could just banish SP to another dimension with a single thought if he wanted to. No contest.

[anguirus55]

Hmm. I am ignorant of the cartoon, but in the movie it is obviously Gozer who creates the form of Stay-Puft. And it isn't ever actually overpowered, they crossed the streams and sucked Gozer back in the temple.

[Zigra]

And it isn't ever actually overpowered, they crossed the streams and sucked Gozer back in the temple.


.........and blew up Stay Puft's body.

[bloodyarts]

The thing that gets me about this fight is that I don't see a battle of giant monsters, but of two spirits who have taken on monstrous forms. Does that really make them kaiju?

The other thing I just read is that Gozer, as Sta-Puft controls fire? Since when?

I admit it's been awhile since I've seen Ghostbusters (mental note: why don't I own this movie yet?), but I recall him being on fire (and in pain), and slamming his hand down on the roof where the 'Busters were standing. The air pressure from his giant, flaming hand sent the Ghostbusters and some of the flames flying forward. That's physics, not control. He didn't do anything that leads me to believe he had some kind of control over the flames, or perhaps I simply don't remember...? He was clearly in pain, why didn't he put out the fire?

Unfortunately, I barely remember the cartoon series, though I was a fan, so perhaps SPMM exhibited control over flames in that series?

Finally, even if I could accept the notion that the combatants in this match are kaiju and not spirits, didn't Ray Stantz say he thought of the most harmless form for which the Destructor could assume? Doesn't this, in effect, mean that the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man is a pathetically weak opponent to a god of vengeance?

[Soundwave]

" Cross the streams! " " But you said never cross the streams! "

Hmm..are we sure Gozer cant just pick a new physical fomr? Hell, Gozer could fight Majin over power of that statue. Im not sure, yea, Gozer is a demi-god, but he is the demi-god of Apacalpyse.
Yeah, and Majin is the God of RETRIBUTION (Punishment).

[Zigra]

Bloodyarts: Nope, Stay Puft never controlled fire in the movie or the cartoon series. I think Anguirus55 was looking too much into that scene where SP sends the flames back at the Ghostbusters (which you've already explained how he did that).

And, once again, I point out that in the cartoon series Stay Puft was not Gozer's avatar after all, just a minion.

[anguirus55]

.........and blew up Stay Puft's body.


The body blew because the spirit was gone. No animating force.

Nope, Stay Puft never controlled fire in the movie or the cartoon series. I think Anguirus55 was looking too much into that scene where SP sends the flames back at the Ghostbusters (which you've already explained how he did that).


That isn't air pressure. Watch it again. He glares at the Ghostbusters and a wall of flame blasts up an entire body-length at them. In a previous shot, when he is climbing with his flaming hand, fire is NOT sent up at them.

[Zigra]

That isn't air pressure. Watch it again. He glares at the Ghostbusters and a wall of flame blasts up an entire body-length at them. In a previous shot, when he is climbing with his flaming hand, fire is NOT sent up at them.


I don't need to watch the movie again. His body was already on fire from the Ghostbuster's beams (this was after he made that glare at them). When he pressed his body against the building, the flames on his body rose up the building's length. So, it does appear to be something along the lines of air pressure, rather than control of the flames.

[bloodyarts]

Crap, unfortunately, I don't have it to watch, but I do have the official "Making Ghostbusters" book which includes the movie script, and I've read online earlier scripts which differ slightly in the SPMM segment (as well as others).

It's never mentioned in the final script that Sta-Puft willed the fire to do anything, nor is it mentioned in any of the earlier drafts I've read.

I guess I just really have to see the movie again (eventually).

One of the cooler things I read about SP in the earlier drafts is that the fire was supposed to burn right through his chest, exposing his musculature and some of his rib cage.

Here is one of the scripts I read: http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/Ghostbusters.txt

This, however, is the same in both scripts: He is almost on them now, fully engulfed in flames, reaching for them,
ready to swat them with his burning fist.

Are you sure this isn't closer to what really happened?

[anguirus55]

Are you sure this isn't closer to what really happened?

That's at the end of the scene.

His body was already on fire from the Ghostbuster's beams (this was after he made that glare at them). When he pressed his body against the building, the flames on his body rose up the building's length. So, it does appear to be something along the lines of air pressure, rather than control of the flames.


I'd sooner believe in actual ghosts than the pressure of the air around Stay-Puft's body doing that.

[Zearatul]

Dude, grow a sense of humor and a couple of I.Q. points. Getting your panties in a wad and flying off the handle, over a humorous remark in a debate on a hypothetical fight between a stone statue and a marshmallow man, just screams "fanboy." It's kind of like when Triumph the Insult Comic Dog ridiculed Canada, and Canada demanded an apology. Who comes out looking better in something like that? Think before post, it do good. Oh, and...

PWNED!!!
Diabetis was funny, it was just that you appeared ignorant of all else in this thread and I hate ignorance... I'm sorry if I offended you...

And then if Gozer battles for control of the statue, and the statue is distracted by a giant marshmellow... Gozer has a good chance if that's the scenario.

And on this "Mr.Stay-Puft blew-up because of the GBs" I want to point out that Gozer could have made him self destruct. Why? I don't know, perhaps it's even a teleportation (Warning! Mere speculation!)

[Zigra]

I'd sooner believe in actual ghosts than the pressure of the air around Stay-Puft's body doing that.

That's kinda like saying you'd sooner believe in Santa Claus than believe King Seesar can reflect beams from his eyes. Talk about ignoring what is so blatantly obvious :nonono2:

And on this "Mr.Stay-Puft blew-up because of the GBs" I want to point out that Gozer could have made him self destruct. Why? I don't know, perhaps it's even a teleportation (Warning! Mere speculation!)

And extremely far-fetched speculation at that......

[anguirus55]

That's kinda like saying you'd sooner believe in Santa Claus than believe King Seesar can reflect beams from his eyes.

Was this supposed to make sense? I compared air pressure doing what you say it did to an absurdly unlikely thing, and you retort by comparing two absurdly unlikely things. Huh?

I just don't see how Stay-Puft roaring at the Ghostbusters and stretching his arms out as a giant blast of flame shoots upward at them can possibly be misinterpreted. Especially since it happened exactly when Stay-Puft wanted it to, he was already shoved up against the building!

Talk about ignoring what is so blatantly obvious

My thoughts exactly. How eerie.

And extremely far-fetched speculation at that......


Stay-Pfut was only destroyed when Gozer was sucked back into the temple. Had the Ghostbusters created an explosion of that size without reversing the particle stream of the temple, Gozer would NOT have been destroyed and would likely have either fixed the damage eventually or made a new form.

The form doesn't matter. Remember, it could have been J. Edgar Hoover. :laugh:

[Zigra]

Was this supposed to make sense? I compared air pressure doing what you say it did to an absurdly unlikely thing, and you retort by comparing two absurdly unlikely things. Huh?

Come on, man. I KNOW your much smarter than you're making yourself look here. I was making an example of something that is very obvious getting ignored. Ceasar's eye reflection just happened to come to mind. Another example would be "I'll believe Elvis is still alive long before I believe Godzilla is radioactive!".

I just don't see how Stay-Puft roaring at the Ghostbusters and stretching his arms out as a giant blast of flame shoots upward at them can possibly be misinterpreted.

But that isn't what happened. It happened right as he slammed his body against the building. He stretched out his arms because he was grabbing a hold of the building as he slammed against it.



Stay-Pfut was only destroyed when Gozer was sucked back into the temple. Had the Ghostbusters created an explosion of that size without reversing the particle stream of the temple, Gozer would NOT have been destroyed and would likely have either fixed the damage eventually or made a new form.

The form doesn't matter. Remember, it could have been J. Edgar Hoover. :laugh:


Interesting, but not what I was talking about. Zeartful claimed that Gozer was the one who deliberately caused SP to blow up. Somehow, I doubt it.

And, once again, I hold fast to what the cartoon show says (SP was just a minion of Gozer, not an avatar). Perhaps I just liked the cartoon too much to accept it as anything less than canon:D

Edit: Of course, I'd like Stay Puft to win. He's one of my favorite kaiju. But, I just don't think it's gonna happen:(

[anguirus55]

Come on, man. I KNOW your much smarter than you're making yourself look here. I was making an example of something that is very obvious getting ignored.

Once again, the same thought comes to my mind. But this discussion is getting us nowhere, so forget it. I honestly don't know who would win.

Does it occur to you that Gozer might MANIPULATE air pressure to do impossible things? His actions there looked very deliberate, I simply do not buy this as incidental.

Another example would be "I'll believe Elvis is still alive long before I believe Godzilla is radioactive!".


Godzilla is radioactive because in G54 radiation poisoning killed a bunch of kids who were near him. It's crystal clear. So :eyebrow: can be my only answer. I'm all for accepting our mutual incomprehension before this thread becomes stale and/or uncivilized.

[bloodyarts]

Does it occur to you that Gozer might MANIPULATE air pressure to do impossible things? His actions there looked very deliberate, I simply do not buy this as incidental.


I don't know, man. It's mentioned nowhere in the early drafts nor the final draft of the script.

The script merely mentions that the flames from his body rose to the roof of the building, and later, SP tries to smash them with his burning hand, but misses, and the Ghostbusters, as well, as some of the flame from his hand, are flung forward.

Sorry to stick so closely to the script. It's all I have to go on (for now). Sometimes, things happen in movies that aren't easily discernible by just watching it, but usually, the script or a novelization of the movie provides ample explanation, and in this case, there's nothing which states Gozer willed the flame from his burning body to do anything.

I also doubt the whole Orga hypnotizing thing, but that's another topic...

[Cole Deschain]

Anybody ever lit a marshmallow on fire? Gozer's real power lay in not simply charring and sloughing apart, it had nothing to do with sending mysticalwaves of flame at anybody.

And for the rcord, fire goes up

So when a massive, burning thing presses itself to the side of a building, where is the jet of flame gonna go?

[anguirus55]

So when a massive, burning thing presses itself to the side of a building, where is the jet of flame gonna go?

More than one body length straight up, except it only happens once as Stay-Puft happens to be snarling at the Ghostbusters?

Gozer's power is not to be underestimated, a little flame manipulation is easily within the reach of a world-trashing god. And special effects are often modified slightly, as the script comes in way before post.

[Zearatul]

I just rewatched the entire movie. Gozer had 2 Demi-Gods under her and was apparently a god who was worshiped by the somerians. Mr.Stay-Puft was Gozer's form. So He's not just a minion in the movie. Oh and That fire seemed pretty coincidentaly aimed to be just air pressure. Plus, Zul, who serves under Gozer destroyed Sigourny Weaver's apartment without moving more then 2 muscles (@ the most) I tend to think that Gozer would do the same thing if she (or he) needed to.

[Cole Deschain]

More than one body length straight up, except it only happens once as Stay-Puft happens to be snarling at the Ghostbusters?

How often does ol' Gozie get that tight to the side of the building? Once. The rest of the time, he's pulling a Kong, leaving himself enough room to move- and leaving the fire far more room to go out rather than forcing it straight up.

I seriously think that by choosing a form, Gozer effectively limits its power somewhat.

[Charles RB]

Majin is a mighty god of vengeance that has only been seen demolishing feudal Japanese cities, and never cut loose on an opponent.

Mr Stay Puft is the avatar of a god of apocalypse, who was never given the opportunity to show how powerful he is, though it is hinted he's very powerful (he wipes out civilisations!).

So I wouldn't count out either of them in a fight. And I'd also ask... ye gods, how of New York would be left standing after that sort of battle?! :0

[Darth Reaper]

Finally, even if I could accept the notion that the combatants in this match are kaiju and not spirits, didn't Ray Stantz say he thought of the most harmless form for which the Destructor could assume? Doesn't this, in effect, mean that the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man is a pathetically weak opponent to a god of vengeance?- bloodyarts

No, it doesn't. Ray thought of the most harmless thing that he could come up with and Gozer turned it into an apocalypic nightmare. That was the point, and why the guys were staring at Mr. Stay-Puffed in horror rather than laughing.

Also, my money's on Daimajin as well.

[Robzilla]

I don't think Gozer can be sent back to Hell because he is not from it. He, Zuul, and the rest of that weirdness exist outside the setup of Christian mythology. But to be fair I don't know who Majin is. I've never seen Gozer demonstrate any sort of regeneration, but in any case, I'd just have to say that Ghostbusters was one of the best movies of all time, so Staypuft wins.

[Darth Reaper]

Wherever Gozer's from, I think Majin is capable of sending him/her/it back there and slamming the door shut.

[juan]

In the movie, we see the god Gozer (for Gozer is a god--a Babylonian god--as the Ghostbusters tell us in their various discourses) tells our heroes to "Choose the form of the Destroyer."

Venkman figures it out and says "Real cute! You mean that whatever we think of will come and to life and destroy us! If we think of J. Edgar Hoover, J. Edgar Hoover will come and kill us all! Quick nobody think of anything."

"The Form has been chosen."

The guys are all fighting amongst themselves and we see that one of them had been thinking of the most innocent, loving creature he could think of... Mr. Stay Puft... and a giant Mr. Stay-Puft comes smashing down the street!

If its movie continuity with Stay-Puft being another form of Gozer, it'll be a real toughy. Gozer had the power to destroy the world whilst we've never really tested the limits of Majin's power. We don't know how strong he is, at most we've seen him fight local badits and smash a few villaiges.

:nervous: Though of course, if Daii Studios were to do this, they'd just have Majin whip powers out of thin air like he always done. :nervous:

If its cartoon continuity, I'll give it to Stay-Puft as he is more a hapless dupe of Gozer there, an innocent. Thing is, he actually a really nice guyt there

[biochemitra]

Gpzer asks majin to choose a form.

Majin thinks about people fleeing from him.

A crowd of giant fleeing people come and trample him...

[Bigmatt]

This battle has always intrested me! Having said that I have no idea who would win. When I usaully support one monster or another in a battle I do so with examples from movies or if possible more specfically battles the monster has been in. The problem with these two, in particular Stay-Puft is that we really have no information on what type of power,stamina, endurance or other battle attributes he truly has. It has been suggested that he has the power to destroy entire civilizations but we have never seen it. Therefore it makes an argument difficult.

We have seen Majin destory samuri warlords with relative ease so his battle skills and powers are a little more clear. However due to a lack of hard evidence the case could be made that Stay Puft powers far exceed those of Manjin. While we've seen Manjin surive a storm of arrows Stay Puft surived close range blasts from four of the Ghostbusters proton backs and despite being set ablaze was not slowed down at all. Again this proves little.

If I was to choose a winner in this battle I would give it to Stay-Puft based on this loose line of logic which admittedly has several holes. Stay -Puft seems to be a "Ghost -god" ie, he is already dead therefore it should be impossible to kill him. Majin is a god of vengance, whether or not the concept applies to him is unclear but we know from other stories and mythologies that in some cases gods can die. As evidence in the Marvel Universe it has long been known that Thor and the other Norse Gods can die and go to Valhalla. In the Hercules and Xena sereis it was well stated that a Hind's blood could kill a god. While the argument could be made that these beings are actually demi-gods and not a god in the sense of Majin I would point to Glory from the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. It was made clear that she was indeed a full god and yet she was still able to die.

While I will concede that other "dead" creatures i.e. vampires as in Buffy can be killed, it is very difficult if not impossible to find an example in sci-fi in which a ghost is killed. I can further support this with evidence from Ghostbusters the animated series. There was once an episode where there was a sort of robo-buster that was created which seemed to actually destroy ghosts as opposed to capturing them as the Ghostbuster did. All the while Egon is insistent that ghosts can not simply be destroyed that the energy they conisist of needs to of gone some where, sure enough at the end of the episode he is right as all of the supposedly killed ghosts return as a super ghost.

There's my weak line of reasoning for Stay-Puft he cannot be killed and it is arguable that Manjin could be.

[Orga777]

^Majin is a god, in being a god he is immortal.

[Bigmatt]

^Majin is a god, in being a god he is immortal.

In my previous post I have shown several examples that being a god does not always mean that being is endowed with immortality. I have only seen the first Majin movie and admittly it has been a long time, is there anything in this movie or the sequals that aside from the fact that he is a god presents a case for Majin having immoratality. Does a character state at any point that by no means Majin can be killed? As I said I don't know it may be there but if there is no evidence behind this then I would still reassert my claim that in some instances gods can be killed, while there is little evidence or no evidence to suggest that a ghost can be killed. I still think this gives a slight edge to Stay -Puft. As I've said this claim is weak line of reasoning based on indirect comparisons to other sci-fi/fantasy examples but simply saying the Majin is a god and therefore is immortal does not disprove my previous point.

[Zearatul]

^Majin is a god, in being a god he is immortal.And this is a sci-fi universe, in sci-fi universes, gods are easy to kill (hell, even in Greek mythology, gods are easy to kill for beings that are often equal in power.) An example is in Star Trek, the Klingons are said to have killed their gods.

[Gothmog]

And this is a sci-fi universe, in sci-fi universes, gods are easy to kill (hell, even in Greek mythology, gods are easy to kill for beings that are often equal in power.) An example is in Star Trek, the Klingons are said to have killed their gods.
Way to go with the generalizing.
I'm not big on Daimajin info but he's a japanese god right? IIRC they aren't as easy to kill as your run-of-the-mill greek gods.

[Bigmatt]

Way to go with the generalizing.
I'm not big on Daimajin info but he's a japanese god right? IIRC they aren't as easy to kill as your run-of-the-mill greek gods.

Again I'll ask what do you base this on? What makes us think that Majin cannot die? Think about it what have we really seen Majin stand up to? Some arrows, catipults, carts on fire? Is there any doubt that Minya could of withstood the same attacks? Stay Puft has been said to have the power to destroy entire civilzations, surely thats more powerful then a few pointy sticks and big rocks.

By your own statement you admit it may be possible for Majin to die. Not as easy to kill as Greek gods is not the same as impossible to kill. When I first thought about this I was not sure who would win but the more I discuss this the more I feel Stay Puft takes this battle. No one has yet to put up any convincing argument that Majin cannot die and there has been no objections to my suggestions that as a Ghost Stay Puft cannot be killed.