School dress code

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

POWER TO THE STUDENTS!
Anyways,yoday at the glorious school of Pine Ridge Middle School,there was a rather small walk out of only six people.
The walk out was to protest our schools dress code.A very,and overly strict dress code,so six students(I wasen't one of them,but I should have went)just walked out until the Principal decided to talk about changing it.....

Good times...:cool:

[MirrenDono]

XD!!!

What's the actual dress code? I'd love to know how bad it is ;)

[Cookson]

Speaking of a schools dress code. My school is planning on having kids wear uniforms next year................YYYYYUUUUCCCCCKKKKK

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

^
Then just have a Walk Out,but it has to be a secret or the teachers will catch on and ruin it.
I hear it gives you quite the rush of Freedom...
I highly suggest to do this as a way of Protesting.

It was inspired by a local High School Walk out.Theres was because they wouldn't let book bags in the school(Some dumb Crap about space) so one guy just stood up and yell WALK OUT! and the intire class got up,and soon the other classes followed.l

Very impowering.

[Gorjirus]

So, did that just disrupt your entire school day?

Did it accomplish what they had hoped?

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

ONly six people walked out,but they were chreed on by the rest of us.
They said they would try to talk it over,and come to somesorta' agreement.....

It started at the end of my classes Computer Lab time.And Six(From various classes,but it was still only six)Walked out.

[Guilala - The X From Detroit]

We had a walk out on the dress code at my high school here back in 1997. Half the people walking out had no clue what they walking out for - then a quarter of them came back to school because they were bored. The principal called an assembly in the auditorium and held a forum with the students so they could discuss the issue. Most students took the time to practice their stand-up routines in front of the entire school, including myself. It was worse than a trashy talk show. Ugh, I wasn't so bright in my high school days.

[The Great MM]

Half the kids in our school wanna do a walk out because the teachers are giving out WAY to much homework and are WAY to strict. Hell, earlier this week, I was cought doodling, something I NEED to do to keep my attention up, and I was given a zero on class participation that day.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

^
I'd go for it MM.Although,there is a chance for being Expelled.
We were going to do one last year,and somebody yaked there mouth to the teachers,and they took the kids that planned it and kept them in the Office for the intire day....

[Cole Deschain]

Back when I was in high school, they tried to put in a dress code my senior year.

We solved the problem by having a good 70% of the students flagrantly violate the code at all times.

It was a hoot.

[PyrasTerran]

Darn rebel kids and their music.. :laugh:

[HolyGoji777]

school at one point ruined my life so i have no sympathy for schools...they are ignorant and believe that age automatically grants them wisdom and maturity when really they are overzealous and have no idea what they are talking about.

i used to be a "goth" id guess youd say so after columbine that meant that all of us were bad...truth being i wouldnt hurt anyone unless i had to...so my school suspended me for the whole year on a RUMOR...that i was going to make a bomb threat...i eventually found out who started it and it was some preppy girl who didnt like me cuz she thought she was better than me. so i had my life stripped from me...literally...imagine sitting in a room for six months with nothing to do except when you left to tutoring and your paper route...i read...and wrote...

high school was supposed to be different...it wasnt...hall monitors hounding me because of the way i dressed and stuff. nothing profane nothing abnormal i just wasnt one of the kids who wore aeropostale and abercrombie and crap like they so they just assumed there was something wrong with me. so they tried to enforce a dress code on me and i walked out of the school. well my teachers actually spoke with the administration...because i was their best student and they thought it was stupid for me not to be in school because of the way i dressed.

so yeah i was quite the rebel in high school...the administration and even some teachers hated me but i wasnt rebellious because i wanted to be...i was because i stood up for what i thought was right. i just wanted to be left alone

so yeah i kinda know what you guys are going through...

[Kaiju Fan]

I have to say, after reading through this thread, that college is frigging awesome compared to middle school and high school. Oh, and I sympathize with you guys entirely, but if it's any condolence, you'll only have a few years to go and then all of this crap with dress codes and "class participation" and such will be done and over with.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Its not all that bad really.The Principal snapped to our demands...
We say that if our parents let us wear it.Then we should be allowed to wear it in school.

[Evil alla Pure]

*applaudes, cheers, hoots and hollers*
FIGHT THE POWER DARKSIDE FIGHT THE POWER!!!!
That'll teach 'em all right. If your parents have no problem buying you those clothes then they have no right to take them away. I am of course talking about APPROPRIATE CLOTHES. But still hit then where it hurts buddy and they shall cripple before you. Another thing I am against is uniforms, that right there is a grade A pile of HORSE****. Whoever thought of that should be brutally executed. Not only is it as embarrasing as crap but it shows no individuality whatsoever. So once again tell those brave soles at your school that I give them salute and all of the rest of you who fight for your cause.

[jangofett]

Up until a year ago, our school was relatively dress-code free. Everyone abided by the no short-shorts and no flop flops rules. So, they decided to switch it up a little--now they wanted no trench coats, which was quite in style. So, about ten or twenty of us decided to come to school in only trench coats, got written up, and had a nice long chat with the district manager--who decided to repeal it after hearing our arguements. The rule was forever lost. :)

[Raptor]

All I have to say about this thread is that some of you just don't "get it"... :hmmm:

[PyrasTerran]

Haha XD

I personally like uniforms...

But on the subject, being a rebel all your life isn't very productive. Although sooner or later you will conform to something, school uniforms aren't doing anything wrong. What I've seen, they do one of two things:

1) make students get pissy because of crud about "taking away freedom" and "being conformist pigs" and "stripping us of our unique-ness" and other BS like that

2) make the student more high class, which means more sponsors, more funding, more money, better classes, teachers, textbooks, etc. etc.

Of course sometimes it's simply ludicrous to try and implement a dresscode(like in one of those urban D/F schools), but it's really not that bad. If anything, it helps one focus since there aren't so many colors flying around, make people focus more on schoolwork than on peers. But wait, that might "ruin teh social skills" :p

And hey, if everyone dressed the same then no one would be singled out for the way they dress... ..for obvious reasons.

[Cole Deschain]

^ So? Uniforms stink. You know why? Because there's time enough to be an anonymous drone after you graduate and enter the job market. You might as well be allowed some self-expression via garment while it's still "safe" to do so.

[Cosmos]

Don't fool yourself. High school fashion has never been about individuality, it's about the attempt to define individuality, and as a concequence most high school students become paper doll cutouts of what TV tells them to wear.
or adopt someone elses ideas onto there chests with T-shirts.


You're no more a drone in the 'work world' than you are while you being indoctrinated and socialized in school.

You should ask yourself what it means to really express yourself.
If what people choose to wear is a means self expression, then there are alot of people who really have nothing to say.
Perhaps uniforms might encourage the development of a self that's atonomous and free of fashions limitations.

[PyrasTerran]

*thumbs up to Cosmos* :thumbs:

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

The six kids that did walk out weren't a bunch of punk,flunkies.These were kids that get 80s and 90s in school.
And think about it,we do chores for money and go buy these cloths that look good,and are comfortable.And then somebody tells you you can't wear these in school.So know your stuck with these cloths,that you can only wear 2 days of the week.Its almost a waste of money.

And our english teacher even said"You think I like coming to school in this Monkey Suit?" he isn't even that fond of the dress code himself.
Its not about self-expression,or induviduality.Its about wearing what we want to wear.

[Shin lvl2 Goji]

Cole hit it on the head after your school is over there really is no place for individuality like there is in school. Enjoy the time you have now beleive me you'll wish you could go back and do it over. I do I never got to live my school years to the fullest or anything and I regret not taking the time to just have fun. I'm glad your principal listened and responded to the walk out, most of the time they just look at it as silly rebelliousness from teens but it's good to see that there's listening going on and changing for the problem. About the uniform issue I'm definitely against it uniforms do stink I've experienced it and there are a lot of things wrong with having them. Be thankful that you have this time while you're in school to lay back and enjoy your life because when it gets time to enter the workforce it's a whole lot more limiting and there just isn't time to do things you could before. Man I feel old.

[PyrasTerran]

The six kids that did walk out weren't a bunch of punk,flunkies.These were kids that get 80s and 90s in school.

I don't think anyone said that they were.. or if they did, didn't mean it to sound that way.

And think about it,we do chores for money and go buy these cloths that look good,and are comfortable.And then somebody tells you you can't wear these in school.So know your stuck with these cloths,that you can only wear 2 days of the week.Its almost a waste of money.

So you're gonna wear your cool Godzilla shirt to the office when you're grown? School is a way of prepping you for the real workforce, it makes you wake up early, go through a routine, do your work...

Also, there's *after* school to wear whatever your heart desires, as well as Friday nights and weekends. I don't think that's much different from a person working 5 days a week as an adult.

And our english teacher even said"You think I like coming to school in this Monkey Suit?" he isn't even that fond of the dress code himself.

But if the teachers have to keep to a dress code, then why shouldn't the kids? After all, you seem to be personifying these teachers..

Its not about self-expression,or induviduality.Its about wearing what we want to wear.

Not a very strong arguement.. I wanted to play video games when I was done with my work, but that doesn't mean I should have the right to bring my Gamecube to school.

'Fact of the matter is, you say it's simply what you want to wear. That in itself is an example of self-expression. You want to show the world what you like to wear.

[PyrasTerran]

Cole hit it on the head after your school is over there really is no place for individuality like there is in school.

Tell that to the employees of Pixar studios :p

There is *always* a good place for individuality no matter what age.

[godofPH]

Dress Codes suck! I'm glad we don't have them at my school. I wouldn't be who I am today if I had dress codes growing up. Dress codes would be fun for a day, a day of switching people's clothes around. But after that I would just be bored out of my hollow skull for the rest of my school life.

[PyrasTerran]

Dress codes would be fun for a day, a day of switching people's clothes around. But after that I would just be bored out of my hollow skull for the rest of my school life.

So a dress code prevents you from talking to friends, having school activities, and the like? Is clothing really so important that you have to validate your placement in school because of it??

[Cole Deschain]

Tell that to the employees of Pixar studios :p

There is *always* a good place for individuality no matter what age.


If you are so fortunate as to land a job where you can, Pyras. Pixar's the exception, not the rule. Sure, you can wear whatever you like at home, but your job will dictate what you can and cannot wear.

I'm currently working a blue-collar job, the height of informality. Does that mean I get to "express myself"? No. There's a basic dress code even there, and believe me, in the summer months, it can be a real drag.
Not everybody can land a job with Pixar, Pyras, and more to the point, most people will end up in a job that has rules for how they can dress. Why not let people enjoy themselves on some pathetic level while it's still no big deal?

I graduated from college recently (the ultimate in no dress code whatsoever), so trust me, these aren't the rantings of some kid who's annoyed because he can't wear his "I Eat Babies" t-shirt to math class. I honestly think thgat the benefits of uniforms or dress codes are outweighed by the "drone factor." They'll become drones soon enough, trust me.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Not a very strong arguement.. I wanted to play video games when I was done with my work, but that doesn't mean I should have the right to bring my Gamecube to school.
The thing is,Iam allowed to bring my Gamecube to school! :darklord:



So you're gonna wear your cool Godzilla shirt to the office when you're grown? School is a way of prepping you for the real workforce, it makes you wake up early, go through a routine, do your work...


1)I don't own a Godzilla shirt.
2)Prep me for the work force you say?Never seemed like it.I knew there was a conspricay...
3)That would be then,and this is now.I want to enjoy my school time as much as possible.


Also, there's *after* school to wear whatever your heart desires, as well as Friday nights and weekends. I don't think that's much different from a person working 5 days a week as an adult.
Thats what I ment by two days a week,the weekends.
Were I live isn't some big city,or small town.Everything is apart.I can't just call up my friends and ask to go to the skate park or the mall.If I did we'd have to bring sleeping bags or take a Taxi.Everything is in the Valley,I live on the mountain part.


But if the teachers have to keep to a dress code, then why shouldn't the kids? After all, you seem to be personifying these teachers.
They don't like the dress code almost as much as we dislike it.They'd rather come in loose fitting jeans and a t-shirt.But there stuck coming to school in checkred dress shirts,and Jeans.

[Cole Deschain]

Don't fool yourself. High school fashion has never been about individuality, it's about the attempt to define individuality, and as a concequence most high school students become paper doll cutouts of what TV tells them to wear.

And for those who choose not to? Should they not be given the option of pointing out, "I don't wear what MTV tells me to?"

or adopt someone elses ideas onto there chests with T-shirts.

Maybe because they find the t-shirt funny? Individuality isn;t about originality, it's about self-expression. There are nuances within every clique, little differences that mean something.

You're no more a drone in the 'work world' than you are while you being indoctrinated and socialized in school.

Speaking from biutter experience, I beg to differ.

You should ask yourself what it means to really express yourself.
If what people choose to wear is a means self expression, then there are alot of people who really have nothing to say.

Or you just don't know how to look.

Perhaps uniforms might encourage the development of a self that's atonomous and free of fashions limitations.

And maybe it'd be one more stupid set of clothes that sits in the closet, reminding the kid of restrictions, real or imagined.

[PyrasTerran]

If you are so fortunate as to land a job where you can, Pyras. Pixar's the exception, not the rule. Sure, you can wear whatever you like at home, but your job will dictate what you can and cannot wear.

I'm currently working a blue-collar job, the height of informality. Does that mean I get to "express myself"? No. There's a basic dress code even there, and believe me, in the summer months, it can be a real drag.
Not everybody can land a job with Pixar, Pyras, and more to the point, most people will end up in a job that has rules for how they can dress. Why not let people enjoy themselves on some pathetic level while it's still no big deal?

Don't forget most other kinds of artists.

I graduated from college recently (the ultimate in no dress code whatsoever), so trust me, these aren't the rantings of some kid who's annoyed because he can't wear his "I Eat Babies" t-shirt to math class. I honestly think thgat the benefits of uniforms or dress codes are outweighed by the "drone factor." They'll become drones soon enough, trust me.

Yet there is college for that. Why make such a big deal about it in high school if you're gonna be able to wear pretty much whatever you want in college, which for some people will last more than 4 years??

The thing is,Iam allowed to bring my Gamecube to school!

Lucky ******* :laugh:

1)I don't own a Godzilla shirt.
2)Prep me for the work force you say?Never seemed like it.I knew there was a conspricay...
3)That would be then,and this is now.I want to enjoy my school time as much as possible.

1)rhetorical question, sir.
2)Hah, everything has a conspiracy around it some way or another ;)
3)College will be far more enjoyable, trust me.

Thats what I ment by two days a week,the weekends.
Were I live isn't some big city,or small town.Everything is apart.I can't just call up my friends and ask to go to the skate park or the mall.If I did we'd have to bring sleeping bags or take a Taxi.Everything is in the Valley,I live on the mountain part.

I'm a bit confused by how you were wording yourself, but are you saying that you live in a mountainous region where everyone's homes are far and apart?

They don't like the dress code almost as much as we dislike it.They'd rather come in loose fitting jeans and a t-shirt.But there stuck coming to school in checkred dress shirts,and Jeans.

Didn't really answer the question.. :(

[PyrasTerran]

And for those who choose not to? Should they not be given the option of pointing out, "I don't wear what MTV tells me to?"

What kind of clothes are you implying, exactly? There are lots of clothes that aren't of the MTV culture that can still retain your self-expression.

Or you just don't know how to look.

Yet your clothes shouldn't govern your self-expression. After all, there are those who dress in black and listen to death metal, but can be the nicest people you ever meet. So nice they don't mind going to their family's reunion dressed nicely.

And maybe it'd be one more stupid set of clothes that sits in the closet, reminding the kid of restrictions, real or imagined.

Or, like Cosmos stated, challenges the kid to be self-expressive in a form other than self-appearance, which is pretty materialistic.

[Cole Deschain]

Don't forget most other kinds of artists.

Many of whom can barely make a living, causing the odl debate, "do I compromise my principles, or do I eat this week?- Says the dual theatre/folklore degree holder, currently running a forklift in a lumberyard.


Yet there is college for that. Why make such a big deal about it in high school if you're gonna be able to wear pretty much whatever you want in college, which for some people will last more than 4 years??

1) You're presuming logic in a human social reaction. Pyras, you know better.
2) The peers one has in high school are usually (barring moving) the people you've been going to school with off and on since you started. There's a massive history of social and creative interaction with those peers, and for many, college is a blank slate, a chance to reinvent yourself. High School is, in many ways, the culmination of your childhood. Generally, it'll be the last time you're in a working environment with so many people you know so well.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

I will show you the general area of were I live to clear confusion-here (http://www.realtyworld.ca/properties/maps/images/ns_annapolisvalley.gif)

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

That long red line is were the "North Mountain" is.Thats were I live.
The school is near Coldbrook,and all the cool things lie the Sakepark,Card/Comic/Colectibles shop,and the mall is in Greenwood.

[Cole Deschain]

What kind of clothes are you implying, exactly? There are lots of clothes that aren't of the MTV culture that can still retain your self-expression.

Rhetorical statement, Pyras, the kind you're so fond of.


Yet your clothes shouldn't govern your self-expression. After all, there are those who dress in black and listen to death metal, but can be the nicest people you ever meet. So nice they don't mind going to their family's reunion dressed nicely.

Pyras, three of my major papers in my undergaduate studies upon the subject of body art in everyday life. Trust me when I say that people dressing in a "known" fashion are declaring allegiance with a group, even if they don't actually buy into any that group's stereotypes. The key is, they are more than their clothes, but their choice of group affiliation says something about them as well. And your family asking you to do something out of the goodness of your heart is far more persuasive than afaceless administration ordering you to do the same thing.


Or, like Cosmos stated, challenges the kid to be self-expressive in a form other than self-appearance, which is pretty materialistic.

We are living in the material world, ese. ;)

But seriously- your garments are simply a canvas that you get to choose how you decorate. You wanna be a Goth? Cool, you're a goth. You wanna wear your varsity letter around? Your call. Not everybody can sing, not everybody can freestyle, very few people think they can paint or draw, musical instruments aren;t eveyrbody's cup of tea, and you're not going to get into a conversation with every human you cross paths with. Body art is simply a quick, effective way to say, "this is who I am, these are the people I identify with, think what you will."

In my high school, we had several Alaska Native students. Many of them were proud to express their cultural heritage through dress whenever possible. A uniform code would defeat that. We'd be running merely on genetic ethnicity, in their case. I'm talking mukluks and Athabascan parkas. I mean little things, like beaded moosehide vests, necklaces, and other such little doodads, many of which would be either invisible or banned by most dress codes and uniforms I've seen in my time.

Another example, not from school, but indicative of what I'm trying to get across, comes from Afghanistan. Yes, the Taliban made all women wear the chador. But some fo the women who were angriest about it were the women who had chosen to wear the chador before, as an expression of piety. Now that everybody had to do it, their gesture was meaningless to the rest of their society.
The same could be said for devout evangelicals, who dress very much in accordance with most dress codes. I interviewed quite a few of them in the course of my research, and for the most part, they were proud to stand out and be different.

As I said before, self-expression isn't about being unique, it's about expressing your identity.

[PyrasTerran]

Many of whom can barely make a living, causing the odl debate, "do I compromise my principles, or do I eat this week?- Says the dual theatre/folklore degree holder, currently running a forklift in a lumberyard.

And some of whom live very well off while still being self-expressive as they want. Some of whom end up being in art galleries, writing songs for just about everyone(my mother's boyfriend has played with people, from working with Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon's percussion to helping in the playing of The Daily Show's theme music), and working in Pixar :p

1) You're presuming logic in a human social reaction. Pyras, you know better.
2) The peers one has in high school are usually (barring moving) the people you've been going to school with off and on since you started. There's a massive history of social and creative interaction with those peers, and for many, college is a blank slate, a chance to reinvent yourself. High School is, in many ways, the culmination of your childhood. Generally, it'll be the last time you're in a working environment with so many people you know so well.

1)I don't get what you mean.
2)Then I'm afraid I can't relate. I was in a private school in elementary, a public school in middle, and a magnet school in high. Each round had a different set of people, and each time I found myself reinventing myself. To me, college is the closest thing right now to not having to have a completely clean slate, as about 60% + of the people in my highschool are in this college.

I will show you the general area of were I live to clear confusion-here

I kind of see what you're getting at there.

[Cole Deschain]

And some of whom live very well off while still being self-expressive as they want. Some of whom end up being in art galleries, writing songs for just about everyone(my mother's boyfriend has played with people, from working with Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon's percussion to helping in the playing of The Daily Show's theme music), and working in Pixar :p

A bare minority.


1)I don't get what you mean.

"Why make such a big deal about it?" They're human beings, Pyras. Making a big deal out things is what we do.

2)Then I'm afraid I can't relate. I was in a private school in elementary, a public school in middle, and a magnet school in high. Each round had a different set of people, and each time I found myself reinventing myself. To me, college is the closest thing right now to not having to have a completely clean slate, as about 60% + of the people in my highschool are in this college.

Fair enough. However, like your artist statement, it represents a minority, rather than a majority.

[PyrasTerran]

Rhetorical statement, Pyras, the kind you're so fond of.

Heh, 'got me there. :p

Pyras, three of my major papers in my undergaduate studies upon the subject of body art in everyday life. Trust me when I say that people dressing in a "known" fashion are declaring allegiance with a group, even if they don't actually buy into any that group's stereotypes. The key is, they are more than their clothes, but their choice of group affiliation says something about them as well. And your family asking you to do something out of the goodness of your heart is far more persuasive than afaceless administration ordering you to do the same thing.

But seriously- your garments are simply a canvas that you get to choose how you decorate. You wanna be a Goth? Cool, you're a goth. You wanna wear your varsity letter around? Your call. Not everybody can sing, not everybody can freestyle, very few people think they can paint or draw, musical instruments aren;t eveyrbody's cup of tea, and you're not going to get into a conversation with every human you cross paths with. Body art is simply a quick, effective way to say, "this is who I am, these are the people I identify with, think what you will."

In my high school, we had several Alaska Native students. Many of them were proud to express their cultural heritage through dress whenever possible. A uniform code would defeat that. We'd be running merely on genetic ethnicity, in their case. I'm talking mukluks and Athabascan parkas. I mean little things, like beaded moosehide vests, necklaces, and other such little doodads, many of which would be either invisible or banned by most dress codes and uniforms I've seen in my time.

Another example, not from school, but indicative of what I'm trying to get across, comes from Afghanistan. Yes, the Taliban made all women wear the chador. But some fo the women who were angriest about it were the women who had chosen to wear the chador before, as an expression of piety. Now that everybody had to do it, their gesture was meaningless to the rest of their society.
The same could be said for devout evangelicals, who dress very much in accordance with most dress codes. I interviewed quite a few of them in the course of my research, and for the most part, they were proud to stand out and be different.

Again, I will have to fold for this, because I simply can't relate. I hardly see clothing as any kind of importance, something I can say is part of the way I was brought up.

However, that does not mean I don't recognize and respect your arguement. If I lived anywhere else, I might fullheartedly agree with you. Miami is another world..

As I said before, self-expression isn't about being unique, it's about expressing your identity.

Though I believe there are times and places for that...

We are living in the material world, ese.

Aye, sad but true.

[PyrasTerran]

"Why make such a big deal about it?" They're human beings, Pyras. Making a big deal out things is what we do.

That can be argued. After all, Buddhism is a valid way of life that requires one to expel the the "human nature" that is covet and the like.

A bare minority.

Can't argue with that. But, I am working in that minority... I guess that's why I hold it in such high regards.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

I don't think anyone said that they were.. or if they did, didn't mean it to sound that way.

I said that because most people who think about this event will just say"Bunch of Punk-*** teens rebeling"
INfact these kids are smart, they dress the part as a ''Punk" (Hell,one has a tatoo on her shoulder!)but they are not that kind of people.They just want to wear what they want.
as I stated as they left the building "Adults are a poison in our prefect world of rock music,revealing cloths,and violent Video Games!" :laugh:

Were planning anougher one,with more then six people.ANd Iam NOT missing out on the next one,if they don't listen of course :darklord:....

[Cole Deschain]

Again, I will have to fold for this, because I simply can't relate. I hardly see clothing as any kind of importance, something I can say is part of the way I was brought up.

Well, if you're brought up part of the dominant culture, it's fairly easy to think of your clothes as simply being unimportant. One interview I read (didn't conduct, so I'm only about 80% sure of its conclusons) was with a housewife in India, who dressed very plainly, because she chose to express herself through her housework. When you almost automatically dress like the majority of the ambient culture, you either have to get very nuanced (i.e., forsaking the bangles popular among Indian women as frivolous, which is a statement of identity in and of itself), or by dramatically altering how you present yourself (goth, hippy, cowboy, whatever).

Though I believe there are times and places for that...

Such as when you're young, in school, and we all know you "don't really mean it." Let kids be kids.

[PyrasTerran]

Such as when you're young, in school, and we all know you "don't really mean it." Let kids be kids.

But that's why we have Christmas vacation, weekends, holidays, spring break, summer vacation...

[PyrasTerran]

Were planning anougher one,with more then six people.ANd Iam NOT missing out on the next one,if they don't listen of course

If it worked before, I don't think you should have any trouble making it work again. Especially if the students have realized that their opinion does matter to their school(in this case).

[Cole Deschain]

But that's why we have Christmas vacation, weekends, holidays, spring break, summer vacation...

So Athabascan students can only be Athabascan outside of school hours? For some of them, it's enough of a pain that they have to speak English in school.

And honestly, I have yet to see clothing significantly detract from the average academic situation. A pack of people who are hormaonally overactive are going to be thast way no matter what you make them wear.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

But that's why we have Christmas vacation, weekends, holidays, spring break, summer vacation...
So your saying we should hold our true personalities and cloths for those days that are shorter then the school year?

[PyrasTerran]

So Athabascan students can only be Athabascan outside of school hours?

In my school, only Muslims/Islams are allowed to wear the cloth around their heads(I apologize for not knowing the actual name of it), even turbans. I don't know what Athabascan is, but schools, for what I know and have seen, are capable of retaining a strict dress code while at the same time allowing ethnic apparel. It's not simply dress-code-of-hell or no-dress-code at all.

So your saying we should hold our true personalities and cloths for those days that are shorter then the school year?

Don't confuse your personalities with your clothes.

[PyrasTerran]

For some of them, it's enough of a pain that they have to speak English in school.


That, I am sorry, but I have no remorse for. I've found myself(and my family) in many a pickle because of people who refuse to learn to speak English while living in the 'States. If they've just gotten to US, it's not that big an issue. However, there are people where I live that have lived here for 15 years and still don't know a lick of English.

[Archaic_Avenger]

So you're gonna wear your cool Godzilla shirt to the office when you're grown? School is a way of prepping you for the real workforce, it makes you wake up early, go through a routine, do your work...

Also, there's *after* school to wear whatever your heart desires, as well as Friday nights and weekends. I don't think that's much different from a person working 5 days a week as an adult.


actually, the fact of the matter is that we aren't adults. all this "preparing us for the real world" *and i usually dont say this, so you can see how strongly i feel on the matter* crap is stupid. we're not in the real world, so why do we have to have every aspect of our lives treated like we are. i mean, some training is almost necessary, but when its controlling every aspect of what we wear or look like, and other stuff, it get rediculous. uniforms ARE taking away personal rights. its not training us for the office. at the office you do get to wear what you want, so long as its bussiness appropriate. we dont wear uniforms at the office, so why should we in school. im so sick of them saying be an adult, and act mature. i'm not an adult, and i if i have to act that drone-like and impersonal when i am, i want to fully enjoy the time i have when i'm not one. this isn't teachibng us the rules of the real world, its teaching us to be something we're not. if we want to act like an adult, that's all fine and dandy, but when we want to act like we're 14 years old, or whatever age you are, then we cant and we have to act like an an adult. this is teaching how to be hypocritical. how to be a liar, and be something you're not. its like in Starsky and Hutch, when Ben Stiller is telling the bikers to be who they are, and not something they aren't while he's in a disguise. we're learning about human rights, and how much power one person can have if they just be themself, but then they go right around and tell us that we cant do this, this, and this. "today we're going to learn about the unalienable right of American citizens, something that you as students do not have." its rediculous. i'm not a punk, or a rebel, or a dangerous guy, but i see how stupid and pathetically shallow the rules are, and i think they're just plain wrong. i obey the rules, so long as they aren't the pathetic kind, and do the work in school, but in the long run, it's all just a load of crud.

Rodan2000

[Cole Deschain]

That, I am sorry, but I have no remorse for. I've found myself(and my family) in many a pickle because of people who refuse to learn to speak English while living in the 'States. If they've just gotten to US, it's not that big an issue. However, there are people where I live that have lived here for 15 years and still don't know a lick of English.

And these Athabascan students were born in this country, their parents were, and so on back to before the Russians "found" Alaska. They were here first, and the fact that they do speak English is entirely due to the education system. What I was saying is that they feel they have already been forced to compromise their cultural identity to a pronounced degree.

[anguirus55]

Dress codes: ok.

Super strict dress codes: terrible.

Arbitary dress codes: worse.

Uniforms: crossing into WTF territory.

My high school has a dress code, but it's a reasonable one. No one will call you on it unless you are showing about 50% of the skin on your body. One can't show one's midriff, or wear super-short shorts, or a blatantly too-small shirt, or anything obscene, because let's face it, that's distracting and tasteless. But one can wear crazy clothes and hairstyles (and I mean crazy), or wear trenchcoats, or look really Goth, or whatever, and I think that's great. In fact, just like in the past five-six years (no, I wasn't there) our school reversed the ban on hats in the building and left it up to the individual teacher. So now, the people who really want to wear hats aren't resentful, and NO ONE minds taking it off for one or two teachers if they are polite and explain that they'd just rather not see them in class. The school still bans sunglasses in the building, but no one really cares about that, plus they really shouldn't be worn in class.

The more arbitary restrictions my school rescinded, the better things got, and they still accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.

If they tried to slap uniforms on us without a forum or anything, there would be a walkout, a revolt, or both.

[PyrasTerran]

all this "preparing us for the real world" *and i usually dont say this, so you can see how strongly i feel on the matter* crap is stupid. we're not in the real world, so why do we have to have every aspect of our lives treated like we are.

Because we are all in the real world every day, 9/11 proves that =\

What I was saying is that they feel they have already been forced to compromise their cultural identity to a pronounced degree.

Ah, I understand.

Though that isn't something that is completely on the educational system's fault, as it's something that goes far back. The same can be argued, I believe, with Native Americans finding themselves forced to conform.

My high school has a dress code, but it's a reasonable one. No one will call you on it unless you are showing about 50% of the skin on your body. One can't show one's midriff, or wear super-short shorts, or a blatantly too-small shirt, or anything obscene, because let's face it, that's distracting and tasteless. But one can wear crazy clothes and hairstyles (and I mean crazy), or wear trenchcoats, or look really Goth, or whatever, and I think that's great. In fact, just like in the past five-six years (no, I wasn't there) our school reversed the ban on hats in the building and left it up to the individual teacher. So now, the people who really want to wear hats aren't resentful, and NO ONE minds taking it off for one or two teachers if they are polite and explain that they'd just rather not see them in class. The school still bans sunglasses in the building, but no one really cares about that, plus they really shouldn't be worn in class.


My school had the same policies, except for the hat deal.

If they tried to slap uniforms on us without a forum or anything, there would be a walkout, a revolt, or both.

Of course, attempting to put such a restriction on a facility that hasn't been like that for a long time is plain suicide. My only qualm is the common student belief that uniforms are *always* a bad idea, even for schools that have had them forever.

[Melkor]

... What's so glamorous about walking out to protest school uniforms?

Frankly, I don't give a damn if my school, or my brother's school enforces school uniforms. Most students dress up like sluts, anyways. I'd rather have my son being told waht to do by his mentors than, God forbid, dressing up as a hippie or something less desirable. Besides, uniforms serve their purpose-- whatever that is. Though I have to say it does encourage hygiene, and that's not bad.



Peace,



Melkor



:darklord:

[Raptor]

There is *always* a good place for individuality no matter what age.That's the key right there. If folks didn't keep being CREATIVE (note: NOT conforming to the latest fads and ways of thinkiing on about every little thing), there would be no new inventions, often badly needed reforms, etc.
Funny that an outstanding school down the road doesn't even have to consider dress codes while in town, it's STILL an issue after being implemented for sound reasons, one of them being gang wannabes that can't get their act together any way you look at it. Sure, that can be considered a MINOR local problem when you're thinking "bigger", like the S.A.F.E. program which encompasses getting your local OFFICIALS to work together in solving far more serious situations.
Review your sociology studies and maybe things will start falling into place. :)

[Raptor]

In my high school, we had several Alaska Native students. Many of them were proud to express their cultural heritage through dress whenever possible. A uniform code would defeat that.I do not believe the introduction of current measures would overlook this aspect. If the local school board did (especially here compared to Alaska, the Dakotas, Arizona, etc.), I'd be laughing my head off at their idiocy and shallowness.

We'd be running merely on genetic ethnicity, in their case. I'm talking mukluks and Athabascan parkas. I mean little things, like beaded moosehide vests, necklaces, and other such little doodads, many of which would be either invisible or banned by most dress codes and uniforms I've seen in my time.I think the difference would be the area. As I mentioned in another post, a school down the road has no problems because of its POPULATION of students. They're more focused on things besides feeling they "have" to wear a certain brand of clothing because its symbolism/trademark is SUPPOSED to represent something other than what was intended.

Another example, not from school, but indicative of what I'm trying to get across, comes from Afghanistan. Yes, the Taliban made all women wear the chador. But some fo the women who were angriest about it were the women who had chosen to wear the chador before, as an expression of piety. Now that everybody had to do it, their gesture was meaningless to the rest of their society.
The same could be said for devout evangelicals, who dress very much in accordance with most dress codes. I interviewed quite a few of them in the course of my research, and for the most part, they were proud to stand out and be different.

As I said before, self-expression isn't about being unique, it's about expressing your identity.There is TRUE identity which can come from heritage and then there are those who are still trying to "find" themselves in various ways. "Manifestation" (as in the case of the gang wannabes) gets picked up on. In this case, it signals a PARTICULAR problem that could be considered over-reacted to. Looking at a different part of the student population, parents could also find relief in not having to keep their kids in the latest "fashions" for school. Of course, THAT whole mess could have been avoided YEARS ago! :laugh:
Your mention of devout religious observances brings to mind other mentions in passing on this very board itself and even immediate neighbors. I think in the TV forum, I brought up doing some research into BACKGROUND. Right there it should tell you many things have been around a lot longer than all the latest "fads" and no doubt will continue to be.
Ideally, there shouldn't be a need for school dress codes. I would suggest those who have them (either in school or at work) look into the whys and wherefores and report back with your findings. THEN we should be better able to possibly get a "handle" on where "the other side" is coming from. There is the after school option to "express yourself" just like there is the company picnic/whatever. Or, take a look at just about any off duty police officer, bus driver, teacher, doctor or whatever. You'll see Godzilla T-shirts, bands and musicians, sporting gear companies, western attire, ball caps, grungy sneakers, jeans, sweats, camo, etc. Matter of fact, I know several docs and dentists who aren't exactly in button-downs under their clinic whites when they're in their offices. Knowing these folks, it's almost EXPECTED of them at this point in time. Even some shopkeepers and SECRETARIES have certain "identities" due to their dress, from ethnic to period stylings.
I believe someone mentioned these things can be very subtle and that can be a key in these type situations so don't anyone get overly concerned about becoming another "drone" or good little "human Re-source" when you enter the workforce. You're probably going through THAT "phase" in school and don't even realize it! :laugh:

[Raptor]

So your saying we should hold our true personalities and cloths for those days that are shorter then the school year?Of course not! Think of it this way: How did you come into the world? Naked! :laugh: Clothes are getting to be more "frivolous" the further we go in this topic. ;)

[Raptor]

Because we are all in the real world every day, 9/11 proves that =\It's actually been the "real world" since the pre-Cambrian. ;)
My school had the same policies, except for the hat deal.Anyone care to explain WHY wear a hat indoors? Is the ceiling flaking or something? :O


Of course, attempting to put such a restriction on a facility that hasn't been like that for a long time is plain suicide.No, it's a little late, like when the "Let's take back our city" call FINALLY goes out.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

... What's so glamorous about walking out to protest school uniforms?
Its not for the school uniforms,its the dress code.
Whats so glamorous? the fact that we got them to listen this way instead of sending a letter that will get thrown in the trash 3 mintues after its opend.

We've tried a Petition,an that went no were.So this Walkout was a last resort.

[Da_Jinx]

If you have to wear uniforms, it's not the end of the world. I've had to wear school uniforms until college and it wasn't that bad. There are school uniforms policies in other countries and it doesn't hurt them either. I can see if this is all new, it would be a shock and some discomfort but it would only be temporary, after awhile you'll get used to it. Besides, there are other ways you can express your individualty and it's not like you have to wear it 24/7 but only for school.

[Cole Deschain]

I believe someone mentioned these things can be very subtle.

That would be me, Raptor. The guy who you're arguing against. ;) Granted, my use of it was to point out that even amongst the Abercrombie and Fitch crowd, there are little things that they use to make a statement within their chosen peer group, wheras you are using it to deal with workplace conformity, but that doesn't change my assessment that in high school, it's stupid and out of place, particularly since all of that "training" gets flushed down the toilet in the four or more years of dress-code free college.

[godofPH]

Ya know, I get very mad when I have to conform to what others what me to do, such as dress the same as everyone else. Let the kids dress gothic or ethnic or whatever wile they are young and don't have to answer to some bald, bad breathed old man for a boss. Dress codes I can live with, uniforms are a big HELL NO!!!!!!!

[PyrasTerran]

Let the kids dress gothic or ethnic or whatever wile they are young and don't have to answer to some bald, bad breathed old man for a boss.

And what if their parents are the one who has them on a dresscode? Should they walk out on them as well?

[Raptor]

Cole, I myself have mentioned there shouldn't NEED to be school dress codes. :laugh: Also, I believe a lot of the ones that have gone to school UNIFORMS (ie. certain colors/styles ONLY and prescribed fitting) TRIED "dress codes" previously. These are usually two entirely different things. I'm guessing the "codes" got "violated" big time (as I believe at least one member here alluded to) so it was on to the next step: You don't know how to look presentable, khakis and polo shirts it is! Some of you feel you're being "punished"? Yep, you are, even if it might not be your personal fault for going to "extremes". And you darn well bet purple/green/orange/blue Mohawks, vacant belt loops past where derrieres split into Port and Starboard (either showing skin or Underoos/Hanes/BVDs/ etc.), shirt tails down to knees and coattails (and shoelaces) dragging the ground look RIDICULOUS on a school campus (if not on the sidewalk of about ANY downtown Main Street. The shorter the downtown, the worst it looks. How many of you looked like THAT in your senior year book picture, eh?
Around here, even with a UNIFORM requirement, they're still trying to get the shirt tails tucked in and a belt around their waists! Local merchants and organizations have seasonal "uniform drives" for the parents who can't afford them and at least one was having a "belt drive"! :eh: It gets me to wondering what these kids wear when they go to church, formal family affairs, etc. Guess what: the pants go with a lot of stuff and the shirts are either solid color or have the school logo. Yoiu guys can always use a decent polo shirt, I would think.
Male high schoolers interviewing for "office" type jobs or visiting with deans and such of colleges you're checking out: how many appropriate shirts, ties, slacks and maybe even a jacket out there? You can't go wrong with a SUIT for various occasions either, just like gals wearing skirts and dresses if the situation calls for it.
Look at high school as a "practice" or "transition". Oh, a nice thing about uniforms is you never have to worry about if the parts will match, go with each other or the dreaded, "Oh, my! Whatever shall I wear today?!" :laugh:

[godofPH]

Yoiu guys can always use a decent polo shirt
p-p-p-polo s-s-sh-sh-shirt? I refuse to wear clothes like that, they make me and everyone else who wears them look dorky. Thats another reason I protetst school uniforms, you get stuck wearing clothes like that.

[Cole Deschain]

Cole, I myself have mentioned there shouldn't NEED to be school dress codes.

And my argument remians that the good they do is minimal, at best. As I saqid previously, a bunch of hormonally overactive young people with identity issues are going to stay that way no matter what you make them wear.

I'm guessing the "codes" got "violated" big time (as I believe at least one member here alluded to)

Me again. That was me. We torpedoed the dress code they tried to institute in my senior year by having most of the population violate the code in a deliberate fashion.

so it was on to the next step: You don't know how to look presentable, khakis and polo shirts it is!

Actually, in our case, it was, "damn, these guys aren't listening at all... and it's not like discipline was a major issue before we put this thing in... guess it's gotta go." But I can appreciate that such widespread insurrection is the exception rather than the rule, and the "keep hitting them until they stay down" mentality certainly does seem prevalent among most disciplinarians.

And you darn well bet purple/green/orange/blue Mohawks, vacant belt loops past where derrieres split into Port and Starboard (either showing skin or Underoos/Hanes/BVDs/ etc.), shirt tails down to knees and coattails (and shoelaces) dragging the ground look RIDICULOUS on a school campus (if not on the sidewalk of about ANY downtown Main Street.

So? Looking stupid is the person's prerogative. I myself wore a trenchcoat that was anything bu menacing. I looked like I was wearing a sail. So? It was my mistake to make.

Around here, even with a UNIFORM requirement, they're still trying to get the shirt tails tucked in and a belt around their waists! Local merchants and organizations have seasonal "uniform drives" for the parents who can't afford them and at least one was having a "belt drive"! :eh: It gets me to wondering what these kids wear when they go to church, formal family affairs, etc.

T-shirts and jeans tend to do the trick in the absence of anything else. Anyway, as an example, my family doesn't go to church, and we haven't had a "formal event" of any sort in years (although I do own a suit for occasions like the opera- but once again, that's my choice). And the whole "belt issue" is simply idiotic. Pants that can't stay up on their own shouldn;t be part of required dress anyway, if you're choosing to go that route.


Guess what: the pants go with a lot of stuff

Much of which these students wouldn't be caught dead in outside of school. And then there's the fact that when you have to wear something part of the week, you tend to mothball it when you aren't forced to wear it. My current job all but requires bluejeans (durability, dontcha know), and a sa result, I almost refuse to wear denim on my weekends.

and the shirts are either solid color or have the school logo. You guys can always use a decent polo shirt, I would think.

For a painting rag, maybe... ;) But seriously, wearing a polo shirt is something many people avoid like the plague.

Male high schoolers interviewing for "office" type jobs or visiting with deans and such of colleges you're checking out: how many appropriate shirts, ties, slacks and maybe even a jacket out there?

For my college interview I wore an olive-drab Brithish Army surplus shirt tucked into clean dark bluejeans. I got in. Painfully easily, actually.

Look at high school as a "practice"

For what? It's a cakewalk in all other respects. If you're going to say that the dress codes or uniforms are preparation for real-world tasks, then the deadlines need to be shorter, the consequences for every action harasher, and the 15 minute breaks between classes are kaput. Also, you might as well make every body study only a single subject, since you tend to stick to one area in a job, once you land it.

"transition".

Closer, but I still say that the four years of college undo almost any "presentation" lessons to be learned here.

Oh, a nice thing about uniforms is you never have to worry about if the parts will match go with each other or the dreaded, "Oh, my! Whatever shall I wear today?!" :laugh:

Assuming that was a major concern in the first place. At any rate, that seems a rather specious argument for making everybody dress alike.

[Gorjirus]

The only thing I have a problem with the walkouts is, have you thought about everyone else? Or just yourselves?

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

I personally think a school with uniforms gives it a bad image.It just shows that we want everything to be exactly perfect,and don't want the kids to be themselves.And the uniforms are really depressing.You may say that you can express yourself in other ways,but it dosen't seem so easy when your stuck wearing something as despressing and lifless as that.

One of our new members(Its Faith,who I told to join) isn't allowed to wear a shirt that has "Hell Beast" on it,simply becuase it has the word "Hell" on it.Ohhhhh that naughty rebel her! :sarcastic:

They think were a bunch of idiots,they think if we see somebody with a "Keiths" beer hat,that were going to suddenly think,I want to drink beer!
give me a break......
(I acually have a Keiths beer Tooke I wasen't allowed to wear)

[Raptor]

And my argument remians that the good they do is minimal, at best. As I saqid previously, a bunch of hormonally overactive young people with identity issues are going to stay that way no matter what you make them wear.I do believe many schools instituting such changes have reported less "problems" on campus AND better academic performances.
We torpedoed the dress code they tried to institute in my senior year by having most of the population violate the code in a deliberate fashion.
Actually, in our case, it was, "damn, these guys aren't listening at all... and it's not like discipline was a major issue before we put this thing in... guess it's gotta go." But I can appreciate that such widespread insurrection is the exception rather than the rule, and the "keep hitting them until they stay down" mentality certainly does seem prevalent among most disciplinarians.Not "disciplinarians". EDUCATORS, school boards and parents even seem to be bringing these things about rather than the correctional personnel and jailers at the various lock-ups.
I myself wore a trenchcoat that was anything bu menacing. "Menacing"? A trenchcoat? Pants falling down around kneecaps is just the opposite: OUTRIGHT HILARIOUS! :laugh: Same with sidewards ball caps and a bunch of other stuff.

And the whole "belt issue" is simply idiotic. Pants that can't stay up on their own shouldn;t be part of required dress anyway, if you're choosing to go that route.This is the main part I want to address here: I'm thinking most men's pants have belt loops and are DESIGNED to accommodate a belt. A person actually looks "half dressed" with the loops empty. Of course, providing their shirt tails are tucked in to begin with. :confused:
Now:
Pants that can't stay up on their own BEING PART of required dress... Have you seen this... "fad" or whatever it's supposed to be with britches ATTEMPTING to ride BELOW the hip bone? ON GUYS? THAT is probably why they went with the belts, as well as the overall appearance thing because some doofus would show up in the proper pants FIVE SIZES TOO BIG so he could literally "show his butt". And anyone here can take that ANY WAY THEY WANT.
If you're going to say that the dress codes or uniforms are preparation for real-world tasks, then the deadlines need to be shorter, the consequences for every action harasher, and the 15 minute breaks between classes are kaput. Also, you might as well make every body study only a single subject, since you tend to stick to one area in a job, once you land it.
Not so much "tasks" as the IDEA of "acceptable". Look at the EXTREMES "school clothes" have come to! "Colors" can be a very REAL concern. If by "shorter deadlines", you mean getting into compliance, it's usually on an individual basis, as in the case of some needy student not having the gear. Those that do have the outfits but "forgot" to dress appropriately, they're sent home to change as I understand it. Whatever else happens, I do not know. They put out the word in good time for everyone to get prepared, if that's what you mean. I'm not that familiar with what "consequences" are meted out for various "internal" infractions at schools or how effective they are. Now "discipline problems" are an entirely different ballgame.
What does the class change time have to do with anything? Even my high school campus was pretty spread out due to add-ons. As for only studying one subject or just doing one thing on a job, I'd have to say the opposite can also be true. Many jobs require multiple skills and being able to fill various positions in the operation are a definite plus.
Closer, but I still say that the four years of college undo almost any "presentation" lessons to be learned here.OK, let's consider the folks who DON'T go straight to college. How many of the more EXTREME examples that have been cited here are found in ANY workplace? I don't know the percentage off hand but not EVERYONE goes.
Assuming that was a major concern in the first place. At any rate, that seems a rather specious argument for making everybody dress alike. Apparently it is, judging by the amount of "rebelliousness" to about ANY "standards" of dress whatsoever here! :laugh: Take a look at some of our other "school" type topics. APPEARANCE very often came up, by GUYS in more cases than girls.
As we wind down here, I gather not many participants are going to be joining the military, law enforcement, maybe their city crews, selling insurance or real estate, being medics, salon or clinic workers, etc. Of course, I could be wrong and in these cases, you will be CHOOSING to wear to wear them. Still don't think it will be "expressing your individuality"? Just the opposite! ;)

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

The only thing I have a problem with the walkouts is, have you thought about everyone else? Or just yourselves?
They eigther A)Didn't care or B)Were to nervous abuot getting in trouble....

[Cole Deschain]

I do believe many schools instituting such changes have reported less "problems" on campus AND better academic performances.

Good for them. Of course they do. They're paying more attention to make sure little Johnny is wearing his proper uniform, so Little Johnny knows that Big Brother is Watching Him.

Not "disciplinarians". EDUCATORS, school boards and parents even seem to be bringing these things about rather than the correctional personnel and jailers at the various lock-ups.

You think there's a difference in the public school system? Wow.

"Menacing"? A trenchcoat? Pants falling down around kneecaps is just the opposite: OUTRIGHT HILARIOUS! :laugh: Same with sidewards ball caps and a bunch of other stuff.

Doesn;t address my point that it's their mistake to make.

This is the main part I want to address here: I'm thinking most men's pants have belt loops and are DESIGNED to accommodate a belt. A person actually looks "half dressed" with the loops empty. Of course, providing their shirt tails are tucked in to begin with. :confused:

Sheesh, where do you live? Seriously? I don;t know anybody who thinks that empty belt loops area fashion faux pas, or even bad manners. Not wearing a belt doesn;t mean anything. The loops are there. So?

Pants that can't stay up on their own BEING PART of required dress... Have you seen this... "fad" or whatever it's supposed to be with britches ATTEMPTING to ride BELOW the hip bone? ON GUYS? THAT is probably why they went with the belts, as well as the overall appearance thing because some doofus would show up in the proper pants FIVE SIZES TOO BIG so he could literally "show his butt".

Just tell 'em that little fad begain among prison prostitutes. I find that it gives them a new perspective. Anyway, my point remians- if a code says you've gotta wear something, they'd better make sure they stress that the things have to stay up on their own. If they failed to specifiy, that's entirely their fault.

Not so much "tasks" as the IDEA of "acceptable". Look at the EXTREMES "school clothes" have come to!

They said that in the '70s, Raptor.

"Colors" can be a very REAL concern. If by "shorter deadlines", you mean getting into compliance, it's usually on an individual basis, as in the case of some needy student not having the gear.

Not what I meant. I meant that any pretense of preparing a student for the real world falls flat in the light of how school is structured.

What does the class change time have to do with anything?

If you're preapring for the real world, nobody gets fifteen minutes between assignments. You just keep working until it's time for lunch, or time to go home.

Many jobs require multiple skills and being able to fill various positions in the operation are a definite plus.

But focused on whatever is being made/sold/torn down/built/brwed, whatever.

OK, let's consider the folks who DON'T go straight to college. How many of the more EXTREME examples that have been cited here are found in ANY workplace?

A guy at my job tattoos himself on a weekly basis and has a piercing in eveyr part of his face. As far as I know, he never went to college.

Apparently it is, judging by the amount of "rebelliousness" to about ANY "standards" of dress whatsoever here! :laugh: Take a look at some of our other "school" type topics. APPEARANCE very often came up, by GUYS in more cases than girls.

How many girls post here, Raptor? Our demographics are skewed.

As we wind down here, I gather not many participants are going to be joining the military, law enforcement, maybe their city crews, selling insurance or real estate, being medics, salon or clinic workers, etc.

All sound like a fate worse than death to me. ;)

Of course, I could be wrong and in these cases, you will be CHOOSING to wear to wear them. Still don't think it will be "expressing your individuality"? Just the opposite! ;)


Raptor, people can choose their jobs, they do not get to choose whether or not they go to school. So this argument doesn;t hold a lot of water with me.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Anougher thing that came up is people dressing like a slut,just to look like one.Not because they like the cloths and it makes them look comfortable.

I think they ban belts to a select few who were *ahem* whipping eachother in the Gym changing room :look:

[Raptor]

Anougher thing that came up is people dressing like a slut,just to look like one.
I think they ban belts to a select few who were *ahem* whipping eachother in the Gym changing room :look:I think I found the solution to these more "extreme" situations: ORANGE JUMP-SUITS! :laugh: Now why on Earth would anyone (male or female) want to look like a lot lizard?

For Cole: I think little Johnny is FINALLY concentrating on his studies instead of clothes. ;)
Funny that you mention the "difference" between EDUCATORS and correctional personnel because there is: some of the kids that can't apply themselves in school end up at the Detention Center - and I don't mean the after-school one. I'm not sure about other states but here, they spend probably about as many hours in a CLASS ROOM as they would have in school!
You now say you made a "mistake" wearing a trenchcoat? How so, may I ask?
As for where I live (and HAVE lived), I'd say empty belt loops just don't make sense. Manners? I believe they also go back to the '50's - about when no belts started showing up. They're there, use 'em.
No failure to specifiy on proper fit when the UNIFORM code come out. It was the mess BEFORE they were aiming to deal with.
I'd say it was even before the '70's that schools (or rather, students) started losing focus. I've heard everything from busing to SCAN being blamed for it so might as well toss in what the kids showed up wearing... ;)
I'm not sure how school is "structured" nowadays. It used to be simply get there on time, pay attention in class, learn your material, do your homework, make acceptable grades. It can be compared to a "job" and I believe a lot of parents (and students) look at it that way. Makes sense to me...
No, one can not "choose" whether to go to school or not before a certain age. Defy your parents about it, you're in trouble there. Get caught truant, even bigger trouble. Is choosing not to a truly INFORMED decision? How about some good "reasons" not to go to school? Fair warning: They better be GOOD! :sarcasm:

[Cole Deschain]

For Cole: I think little Johnny is FINALLY concentrating on his studies instead of clothes. ;)

If Little Johnny's entire wardrobe consists of punk t-shirts and shredded jeans, Little Johnny's clothes are already not his primary concern.

Funny that you mention the "difference" between EDUCATORS and correctional personnel because there is: some of the kids that can't apply themselves in school end up at the Detention Center - and I don't mean the after-school one. I'm not sure about other states but here, they spend probably about as many hours in a CLASS ROOM as they would have in school!

Good for them. But it's a question of degrees, not definition.

You now say you made a "mistake" wearing a trenchcoat? How so, may I ask?

I "now" say? I said it the first time this subject came up. And the mistake was, I looked like a buffoon. A big blue-grey sail draped over a then-quite scrawny kid.

As for where I live (and HAVE lived), I'd say empty belt loops just don't make sense.

Why not? Belts are simply there to hold pants up and hang stuff off of. If the pants stay up on their own, why should a student wear a belt?

Manners? I believe they also go back to the '50's - about when no belts started showing up. They're there, use 'em.

WHY? No, seriously- why? What possible purpose is served by a completely superfluous object on your person? If anything else, belts make excellent improvised weapons.

No failure to specifiy on proper fit when the UNIFORM code come out. It was the mess BEFORE they were aiming to deal with.

You said the guilty party was wearing pants that would have been kosher, had they actually fit. From there, I presumed it was related to the dress code.

I'd say it was even before the '70's that schools (or rather, students) started losing focus. I've heard everything from busing to SCAN being blamed for it so might as well toss in what the kids showed up wearing... ;)

And that is my point- young people's clothes are inevitably decried as "vile." Ever since actual fashion entered into the common man's perceptions, kids have looked for a way to "rebel" against their parents. Clothes today are no different.

I'm not sure how school is "structured" nowadays. It used to be simply get there on time, pay attention in class, learn your material, do your homework, make acceptable grades. It can be compared to a "job" and I believe a lot of parents (and students) look at it that way. Makes sense to me...

A job where you don't get paid, get away with more absences than any job I can name would tolerate, and where the work day is puny in its duration. A job? Not hardly.

No, one can not "choose" whether to go to school or not before a certain age. Defy your parents about it, you're in trouble there. Get caught truant, even bigger trouble. Is choosing not to a truly INFORMED decision? How about some good "reasons" not to go to school?

That's the point, Raptor. You HAVE to go. You don't have the choice of telling the school district to pike it, so you have to obey any idiotic, arbitrary rule they come up with, wheras you can always quitra job where the boss says, "from now on, you all have to wear hawaiian shirts, cutoffs and flip-flops every Firday."

[Raptor]

Sounds like the Credit Union! :laugh: Friday "casual day" and such.

[PyrasTerran]

That's the point, Raptor. You HAVE to go. You don't have the choice of telling the school district to pike it, so you have to obey any idiotic, arbitrary rule they come up with, wheras you can always quitra job where the boss says, "from now on, you all have to wear hawaiian shirts, cutoffs and flip-flops every Firday."

.. So kids have the right to quit school whenever they want?

And if you quit a job, that doesn't mean you're gonna stay job-less..

[Gorjirus]

Quote:
The only thing I have a problem with the walkouts is, have you thought about everyone else? Or just yourselves?


They eigther A)Didn't care or B)Were to nervous abuot getting in trouble....

Okay. Should have explained myself. Is this future walkout going to disrupt the school day? And if it does, isn't that selfish on the part of the participants? I am sure that there have to be some students at your school who could care less and go to school to LEARN. You know, what you are supposed to do at school. :sarcastic:

You are costing them time and knowledge b/c some of you don't like what you are allowed to wear. Isn't that more unfair than you not getting to wear?

Also, what about the teachers? Or the administrators? The district? If yoiu walk out, do you know how much money that would cost them?

[Gorjirus]

Sorry about that. I know it sounds a little harsh.

My mother works in the school system, and it is that kind of behavior that wears her out. I hear about how the actions of the students take tolls on the teachers, often more than the students know. And that if a walkout of that nature happened at my school, I would be one of the students angry that people would do that, costing me my time over clothes, which I could care less about. We have a dress code, that sounds a little similar to yours, and I (and the other students) manage just fine. We are still ourselves.

"Clothes don't make the man" you know.

[Charles RB]

I live in Britain. I and most others my age wore school uniforms for around 10 years (5-15). Did this impair on anyone's individuality and self-expression, and turn them into autonomous drones? Did it smeg.

Makes it a lot easier to work out what to wear on schooldays though. ;)

[Gorjirus]

What is smeg? Is that a British phrase, or a mistype?

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

My mother works in the school system, and it is that kind of behavior that wears her out. I hear about how the actions of the students take tolls on the teachers, often more than the students know. And that if a walkout of that nature happened at my school, I would be one of the students angry that people would do that, costing me my time over clothes, which I could care less about. We have a dress code, that sounds a little similar to yours, and I (and the other students) manage just fine. We are still ourselves.

What about the people that did care? this was important to them,the intire school went on as normal there wasen't any classes that were entirupted.,it was the principal that came out to talk to them.This wasn't like the Walkout at West Kings High school that had about 95% of the students outside.
We didn't have 1% of our students outside....
This is Middle School,not Elementary.The teachers have to beable to put up with this.Were NOT going to be good all the time..

And were Canadians,they don't let mind control gasses into the ventalation system:laugh:

[Charles RB]

What is smeg? Is that a British phrase, or a mistype?

British phrase, courtesy of Red Dwarf. Explitive.

[Charles RB]

We didn't have 1% of our students outside....

And the school folded to you? What a bunch of wimps! I'd have just carried on bringing in the uniform and waited for you to come back (which you'd have to do at some point, if only because it was raining).

[Raptor]

This wasn't like the Walkout at West Kings High school that had about 95% of the students outside.What was the "issue" over there?
This is Middle School,not Elementary.The teachers have to beable to put up with this.Were NOT going to be good all the time.."Have" to be able to "put up" with this kind of stuff? :dozing:

And were Canadians...:laugh: Where's KaijuGal Dawn? I'd LOVE to see HER opinon of this topic! :laugh:

[Gorjirus]

I meant the future walk-out. You know, the one where you said alot more people would do it.

Here's a question:"

Why walk-out? Why not, just not go to school? It would have the same effect would it not?

[Shadow]

Why walk-out? Why not, just not go to school? It would have the same effect would it not?
You have to go to school to walk out...otherwise you'll just be absent...

[Gorjirus]

So? You don't think they would be counted there if they walk out? And are outside all day? Unless they have an absolutlely different rules there, they would still be counted, if not absent, tardy for alot of classes.

[Raptor]

A real dilemma, eh? If you walk out, you're absent from class, that's for sure. Get enough of those, you're probably going to get suspended, being deeper in the hole. Also, some schools even require making up missed classes so all that time in the yard is wasted in more ways than one.

Of course, if you get suspended, you won't have to worry about what to wear! :)

[Gorjirus]

So you could stay home from school, not walkout, and have the exact same effect. Freedom for choice of clothes

[Shadow]

I would have to say that a walk-out would really prove useless, overall. Do you not have a Student Council? A PTA? Any type of forum (besides here...) where you could have your voice heard on this matter? If you want it changed, then take it to them on their terms. The whole "walk-out" thing is really working against you in the long run, as Raptor said, tardies and absentees are bad, for you and your record.

[Gorjirus]

I believe that was already discussed. And if there student council is anything like ours... And what would the PTA have to do with anything?

[Shadow]

Some parents buy the clothes their children wear, or at least supply them with the money to do so, and if they found out that they were spending money on something that couldn't be worn on certain days, the PTA would be a good place to discuss the situation.

[Gorjirus]

Perhaps. Though it depends on who's side they would take on wether or not you would want to take that route.

[Raptor]

I'm thinking the school board sets these type policies myself and their meetings are no doubt public. Get on the agenda and state your case following procedures. There should also be a Grievance provision, I would think (and I don't mean just posting them on kaiju forums!) :laugh:

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

What was the "issue" over there?
They wouldn't allow bookbags in the school at all(funny coming from the largest scholl in my district)They said that it was to conserve space,but its obvious there worried about drugs,and guns.


Why walk-out? Why not, just not go to school? It would have the same effect would it not?
First they tried talking to the principal,and all we got was "I'll get back to you"
Then we had a Petition,but that ended up in the hands of his *****y secretary.Who through it in the gargabe before we left the office.

So it came to this.....

[Melkor]

^ Okay, I guess I get your point. But honestly, I still don't get what the big deal is. They're just dress codes, for crying out loud; here you have to wear uniforms, or else the angry disciplinarian slash HR Director of the school will kindly 'berate' you on the subject. I personally see nothing wrong with limiting what students should wear to school, I mean, it does tend to help soften peer pressure. But I guess I'm speaking for myself here.



Peace,



Melkor



:darklord:

[Raptor]

They wouldn't allow bookbags in the school at all(funny coming from the largest scholl in my district)They said that it was to conserve space,but its obvious there worried about drugs,and guns.Number One: How is anyone supposed to tote their BOOKS and other NECESSARY SCHOOL SUPPLIES back and forth? We already know what happens when they stay in lockers, under the bed, etc. :dozing: How can you do your homework without your text/reference materials?
Number Two: Have there been problems with drugs and guns (or any other stuff) that was hauled in there in a bookbag/backpack/purse/whatever)?
Number Three: IS there a "space" problem?
First they tried talking to the principal,and all we got was "I'll get back to you"
Then we had a Petition,but that ended up in the hands of his *****y secretary.Who through it in the gargabe before we left the office.
So it came to this.... . WHO tried talking to the Principal? IS he/she the one who sets these policies or is it the school board or somewhere else?
NOTE FOR FUTURE REFERENCE:
This should come in handy for a LOT of situations. Someone gives you that particular brush-off, simply ask them "WHEN will you be able to provide an answer/decision?" It's not being disrespectful, simply being "on top of things".

That secretary needs to be called on deep-sixing the petition. BTW, who all signed it? If PARENTS and/or TEACHERS did, LET THEM KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO IT! Is petitioning part of a FORMAL "grievance" procedure? If it is, you should have good recourse there.
What we're really dealing with here is ATTITUDE IMO; the Principal's and secretary's, in particular. Is this the way the WHOLE school system/district handles things? If so, I believe the parents of the students need to be made aware of it. Might as well include the Mayor and the Chamber of Commerce know about it also. Why? THE BIG PICTURE. Schools are part of ANY community which wants to "look good" for its citizens, businesses and PROSPECTIVE enterprises and residents. At this point, I'm not even thinking of what you folks are wearing so much as how THESE TWO REPRESENTATIVES of the school conduct THEMSELVES. THAT is where I'm seeing a REAL problem. :angry:

[Shadow]

At our school, a vast majority of us use mesh bookbags. The school used to have this rule where you had to have one if you wanted to carry your things around, but it's not as enforced lately. If the school was worried about what you carry in you bookbag, this could be a good alternitive.

[PyrasTerran]

Gorjirus brought up a good point about his parent working in the school: There are two sides of the arguement, and there are people on the other side to consider, not just yourself. And like he said, why screw up your studies(and possibly others) over clothing?

[Gorjirus]

Number One: How is anyone supposed to tote their BOOKS and other NECESSARY SCHOOL SUPPLIES back and forth?

You can do what alot of students at my school do, you just carry it in your arms. Alot of students just carry whatever books and whatnot with them, then go to there lockers after every class or every other class (depending on the circumstances).

^Thank you Pyras. At least someone listened.

[Cole Deschain]

.. So kids have the right to quit school whenever they want?

Never said that. Read the whole thing.

And if you quit a job, that doesn't mean you're gonna stay job-less..

Indeed. But you still have the legal right to quit your job with no consequences to anything but your bank account.