GFW not looking to good: fan thoughts...

[Gojira2000]

Konbanwa (good evening) my fellow G-Fans. I found this on Monster Zero. They're reviews by two fans in Japan. Each looks at GFW from a compelety different stand point. Well here they are:

PS MZ posted some other Goji-info, so check it out!


Toho has been screening Godzilla Final Wars privately for some fans and VIPs and comments are making their way on to Japanese forums. Below is a sampling of some of these comments. Some are roughly translated:

COMMENT 1

The article below is entirely composed of personal thoughts and things I recall, if the mood of it offends anyone, I beg apologies.

Yesterday I was able to preview Godzilla Final Wars. For me this was the last expected work of the year. I was expectant have been acquainted with the 7 minute promo…well I may have gone with high expectations…but as I watched this was a foolish feeling. Devilman…Strong Man #28, and Godzilla!...it is regrettable. As I was watching the anger rose up in me. As I returned home you don’t understand how I wanted to vent that anger out on someone. When I got home I immediately called monster illustrator Keiden-san. As I talked on the phone I felt my anger rising, I desperately tried to control myself and talk as I trembled. It was a miserable week for me…

Anyways, I’ll write it out. Kitamura’s predisposition is not for honesty or drama: he had said it would be a grand monster war ballet—where was it? In order to get the human bullet time for monsters they have become slim lightweights. Monstrous battles of no degree happen over and over. A waste of one monster after another follow along without charm or fascination. Gigan comes across truly as a monster and to some degree Monster X in the conclusion. This Godzilla series, by the way, had a greater budget than the previous, to pour into an all-star “Destroy all Monsters” cast, and that’s what it should have been I feel.

The story is awful, isn’t it? Developments are abrupt and then abandoned. Set-ups happen for a gag, and you get bored. Kitamura’s pride it doing action, so he things, but about 10% works, the rest meanders in rhythm and I got tired of it. From the beginning the fighting and hand to hand combat is exciting, but after so much repetition you shrink back…It tries to appeal to the international audience…but I can not feel the appeal of Kyle Cooper’s main title design. Keith Emerson’s music occasionally has leaves an impression but has a thin echo…maybe because there is no power in the movie itself. (Thanks to Matolen)

COMMENT 2

I saw the official approval print preview today. This is completely different from "Old Godzilla". Most of the highlights of the movie have not been shown in prelimnary announcements. 60% was touched by monster special effects, 30% was human-oriented action, and 10% was the drama connecting it all. Godzilla doesn\'t show up until about an hour into the movie, and once he does it is completely non-stop, all about special effects and action. Godzilla smashed his way through 10 or more kaiju continuously. I was overwhlemed by the force which has not been seen until now. Also, Kazuki Kitamura as the alien of X is spectacular. (Thanks to Robert Saint John)



Oh boy, I don't know what to think anymore! I'll see how their reviews hold up when I see the film.

[Figment]

Oh come on, just because it's all action and no plot doesn't make it bad. I saw this coming. After all a movie with 15 monsters, aliens, superhuman mutants, super battle ships and neutron stars isn't going to be able to fit a plot. And I'm sort of glad that this is basically the Toho equivalent of Van Helsing. A taste for movies that are mostly action and no plot seems to run in my family, on my Mom's side apparently...

[Charles RB]

Well, that's ominous. The whole thing behind the film is the monster action and (according to one fan) they're not good? Smeg. :(

The photo for the article is bloody funny though. (Ebirah believes he can fly... he believes he can touch the sky...)

[UltraGojira]

Oh, come on! It's just ONE review!

The second review is really positive, by the way.

[Mothraleo]

This IS a Kitamura movie. I repeat, this IS a Kitamura movie. Anyone who has seen his movies should know that his style of directing is very different in a possitive way to some, and a negetive way to others. I my self love this style with Versus, Aragamai Duel, and Alive, and picture Final Wars having just as much originality.

[The Great MM]

Non stop action, no plot... THIS IS GONNA ROCK, just my type of movie! :P

[Cookson]

Non Stop Action sounds good to me. Nothing wrong with that.

"Ebirah beleives he can fly.... Ebirah beleives he can touch the sky.... Now he thinks about every night and day, Spread his claws and fly away... Ebirah beleives he can fly." LOL

[Melkor]

It's still a review. Although I'm still optimistic about GFW, the first review revived alot of the uncertainty and doubt I first had when early details of the film were announced. Granted, non-stop action might be good, but excessive amounts of it is not. I'm also concerned a bit about Gigan seeming to upstage Kaiser Ghidorah. That just does not feel right to me. Whether GFW will bring in a day of sunshine or one of clouds and storms for the fandom is something I would rather not judge for the time being.



Peace,



Melkor



:darklord:

[Tomzilla]

I'm not that surprised to see people already swayed by just one fan's opinion. Surely by now everyone realizes that in all fandoms, especially this one, there are people who dislike the latest entry? Would you prefer me to take the time to insult everything you all hold dear? If I did such a stupid thing, would you all take my words for granted and have a different outlook on everything as a result?

Give me a break.

Try to get over the fact that just because a film wasn't made in the way you'd prefer, doesn't mean you need to resent its existence before even seeing it. I understand the optimistic views people have already, but it becomes too absurd when I read a topic labeled: "GFW not looking to good: fan thoughts..." - you know what my eyes are reading instead?

"GFW isn't looking too good because one person saw it and thought it was really bad! That person speaks for us all! It's the word of God! Come, we should all worship this one opinion..."

You get the idea. Perhaps this is why Toho is going to be giving Godzilla a 10-year hibernation? No, if you ask me I think the negative impulses being shown in the fandom is why Godzilla isn't being liked anymore. This isn't just in America, but in Japan. If I was given the task to make a Godzilla movie and succeed at trying to impress most of the fandom before it is even released, I'd fail. I don't know why some of you people even like Godzilla, I say that because everytime a new movie comes out, it is usually the same people who hop aboard that train of negativity.

Yes, I know this post is flawed. I'm sure it can easily be disputed by someone who dislikes GFW and posts that echo the same thing mine just said. By all means, rip my post apart; you've already torn this movie to shreds so you might as well proceed with this post.

[Kaiju_Sensai]

I don't watch Godzilla movies for characters & such anyway. Its all about monsters & mass destruction. I wish all Godzilla movies were that way. Plus I think it rocks that Gigan gets such screen time for he's finally getting some long deserved respect. As for Godzilla not showing up for almost an hour, just look at Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and its my altime favorite.

[Project Pimp]

I'm starting to hope this movie DOES suck just so I can laugh at people's misery. It would bring me far more joy than witnessing Kitamura delivering yet another kickass movie.

[Shin lvl2 Goji]

When I read this it reminded me of Hajime Kudo's report after seeing the 7 minute preview. It was FILLED with negative statements about what he saw. I'm glad that a lot of the response from people was of positive excitement rather than just taking his opinion as Gospel. It's impossible to rightly shoot down the movie especially when it's a different director with a whole different style of acting- it's intended to be different!

"It tries to appeal to the international audience…but I can not feel the appeal of Kyle Cooper’s main title design."

I'm sure the many fans (from all corners of the globe) of the Spiderman movies will disagree about that.;) Some fans just seem predisposed to the old without exploring or accepting anything new, while calling it an abomination. With an attitude like that is it any wonder Toho has given us the same stuff lately? (That along with the fact of the overused ones bringing in the money) If I were Toho I'd make this the last movie for a long time too since it'd be a nightmare trying to think of what to do to try to please everyone. But putting the division problems in the fandom aside, it's almost always a bad idea to go into a movie with the attitude that it's going to be bad. How do you expect to enjoy yourself like that? Isn't Godzilla entertainment that's meant to be enjoyed?(whether dark and grim or humorous)

[MechaV]

So this is gonna be yet another G-flick that you anything totally love or totally loathe.

IT'S JUST LIKE THE SHOWA ERA! :laugh:

[Charles RB]

Anyone who has seen his movies should know that his style of directing is very different in a possitive way to some, and a negetive way to others.

So his style of directing is going to divide up the fanbase as to whether or not GFW is good? Bloody great, just what we needed for the last G-film in an age.

IT'S JUST LIKE THE SHOWA ERA!

Which could mean Ebirah really IS dancing in that photo! :D Rock on, shrimp-man!

[Cookson]

It's still a review. Although I'm still optimistic about GFW, the first review revived alot of the uncertainty and doubt I first had when early details of the film were announced. Granted, non-stop action might be good, but excessive amounts of it is not. I'm also concerned a bit about Gigan seeming to upstage Kaiser Ghidorah. That just does not feel right to me. Whether GFW will bring in a day of sunshine or one of clouds and storms for the fandom is something I would rather not judge for the time being.
Well we cant control how GFW is going to be like. Just be greatful that there still making Godzilla movies. If it wasnt for Zilla there wouldnt be G2K, GvsM, GMK, GxMG, GTokyoSOS, and of course Godzilla Final Wars. That is how I look at the situation and maybe others should to.

[Excelsior]

I don't watch Godzilla movies for characters & such anyway. Its all about monsters & mass destruction. I wish all Godzilla movies were that way.

But think of how good the kaiju movies that have both drama and action are. I'm talking KOTM, Heisei Gamera, etc. Heck, I applaud the emotion they managed to bring to Destroyah. That flick had a somber, menacing aurora to it that I feel really provided an appropriate cap-off to the G series.

I accepted a long time ago that Kitamura would go the balls-out action route for this movie, though. I knew it would be that way the moment I heard that he had been announced as the director. I'm fine with that - some of my favorite G memories are of the rollicking, chaos-filled smash-em-up battle scenes, though part of me longs for what might have been. Which leads me to...

As for Godzilla not showing up for almost an hour, just look at Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and its my altime favorite.

But it's supposed to be Godzilla's farewell party. Shouldn't the guest of honor play a bigger role? Having the main character absent for fully half the movie (assuming it gets a two hour cut) is kind of illogical to me. We want to see the whole monster menagerie, true, but Godzilla's the heart of the whole series. I don't see the reasoning behind keeping him out of half his farewell movie.

This is, of course, presuming that the reviewer is accurate and that the final cut of the movie doesn't make any significant changes.

[Zigra]

My one concern is this: bullet time shots for the MONSTER fight scenes? Yeah, I can tolerate that for the human fight scenes, but for the monster scenes?

[PyrasTerran]

But it's supposed to be Godzilla's farewell party. Shouldn't the guest of honor play a bigger role? Having the main character absent for fully half the movie (assuming it gets a two hour cut) is kind of illogical to me. We want to see the whole monster menagerie, true, but Godzilla's the heart of the whole series. I don't see the reasoning behind keeping him out of half his farewell movie.

This is, of course, presuming that the reviewer is accurate and that the final cut of the movie doesn't make any significant changes.


What about build-up? We wait and wait for Godzilla to come out, and can possibly be satisfied when he does appear and begin to whoop royal *** for an hour.

Gamera hardly showed up in G3 and Gamera fans still call it a masterpiece. Godzilla doesn't have to be in the movie the entire time for it to be enjoyable.




I really need to check out Versus so I know what kind of direction I should be expecting..

[Gojira2000]

I understand the optimistic views people have already, but it becomes too absurd when I read a topic labeled: "GFW not looking to good: fan thoughts..." - you know what my eyes are reading instead?

"GFW isn't looking too good because one person saw it and thought it was really bad! That person speaks for us all! It's the word of God! Come, we should all worship this one opinion..."

Sorry about the thread title. I didn't mean for it to sound so negitive. I for one am not one who is going out of my way to hate this movie--in fact, I'm about to kill myself out of excitment with just the thought of seeing it! I can't wait! And I wasn't saying that this one review should put an end to all debates by saying 'the movie sucks, get over it'. No, no, no. I was just posting a new review I thought would give new insight to the film. I'll be more carefull when choosing a thread title next. I feel the film has many high and low points, and that's just from judging wat we've learned so far from it. Because of this, I'm going to see GFW with an open mind, going mostly to enjoy a Godzilla, and therefore I may leave the theater with new respect for the film. If I go loving it, I'll come out disapointed; if I go hating it, I'll just end watching for flaws. If go to see Godzilla, I'll enjoy myself. Law of phyics. LOL

And it is partly ture, that G-films, in the whole, are about big monsters fighting and destroying stuff. And I'm fine with all-out action, but a film with no plot won't live long. IMO, a film's true hreat and soul, to a degree, is the story. It's like bring a good book to life, which most films are. I'd therefore perfer polt over action; I mean, just look at Gamera 3! It likely had less action then any Heisei kaiju movie, and was full of polt, and it turn out to be a masterpice, just as was the case with Godzilla (54). That film only had about a half hour of Godzilla, and the rest plot, and it became the best kaiju film to date. So, maybe because of this, I'm okay with Godzilla not appearing till a half-hour in the film. It's good to build up the story, to let it unfulled, and to make the actual appearence og Goji even more welcomed and fitting. Heck, at least we get to see him in the very begining. It'll be like GMK and G2000, and were both great films.

But in the end, as I've said a great many times; I wait to see till I finally judge it.

[Excelsior]

I'm sure a master craftsman could make a spectacular movie in which the monster doesn't appear until the last ten minutes. Now all I've seen of Kitamura's work is Versus, but judging by that, he ain't that master.

Several parts of that movie were very good. His action scenes were spot-on, and the humor he added worked surprisingly well. I have faith that the action scenes in GFW will work well (I wouldn't even be all that surprised to see the human action overshadow the kaiju just a bit). I just would have expected the last Godzilla movie of this era to have more Godzilla in it.

[PyrasTerran]

Well considering that just about every scene in the last hour of the movie is with/about Godzilla, it more than makes up. That's a whole hour of footage with him kicking *** and taking names. If anything, there might be too much of him in the movie.

[SandwormPhish]

Kind of encouraging for me. I'll be perfectly honest, in most godzilla movies I don't particularly give all that much of a crap for the human characters. Oh there are exceptions like in G'54, Gamera 3 and GMK where there are human characters who I do actually appreciate, but most of the time I'm there to see giant monsters break stuff and beat the tar out of each other.

How many of us were sitting there during G2 and going 'quit showing us the nerd at hte power station and lets see some more monster bashing!"

[SandwormPhish]

I really need to check out Versus so I know what kind of direction I should be expecting..

The kind that involves stealing just about everything that american cinema has swiped from hong-kong and japanese films back :)


But think of how good the kaiju movies that have both drama and action are. I'm talking KOTM, Heisei Gamera, etc. Heck, I applaud the emotion they managed to bring to Destroyah. That flick had a somber, menacing aurora to it that I feel really provided an appropriate cap-off to the G series.

Yeah but most of that for me involved what was going on with Godzilla. Hell Miki's the only human character who's name I can remember.


I'm also concerned a bit about Gigan seeming to upstage Kaiser Ghidorah. That just does not feel right to me.

Probably because as great a monster design as he's got he's always been depicted as something of a sissy. I'm rather excited by the prospect that he'll get a 'tude appropriate to the look rather than his traditional '6 ft. tall irish wolfhound that flees if you swat it with a newspaper' methods.

[Solar_Behemoth]

Heh, my excitement for Final Wars has not changed at all.
This film is another Godzilla (1998) and GMK, in which the film is different from normal Godzilla films, so fans whine. It's sad that people are going to be shocked at the unique style of this film when they haven't even seen a Kitamura film at all.

Gamera hardly showed up in G3 and Gamera fans still call it a masterpiece. Godzilla doesn't have to be in the movie the entire time for it to be enjoyable.

but this is godzilla 50th anivarsary fiml!111 godzila shold be in it 90% of time!111 :sigh:

[Kiryu goji]

C'mon guys do you really think a bad plot is gonna effect GFW to some of us? I mean, hell, I lOVE Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla, even though most people say its plot is terrible, I like it because its got powerful kaiju ('cept for little G and fairy mothra), good action and a great fight! I think GFW's going to be similar to this, and thus, I believe that I'll like it very much. (Plus, the fact that there is a 15-kaiju cast ALONE makes me wanna see it!)

[MouthForWar]

Sounds just like how I pictured it. The whole thing about trying to make it for a bigger audience. But I wont let it ruin it. Besides, who cares what one guy has to say?

[PyrasTerran]

How many of us were sitting there during G2 and going 'quit showing us the nerd at hte power station and lets see some more monster bashing!"

Oh God yes...

*high five*


but this is godzilla 50th anivarsary fiml!111 godzila shold be in it 90% of time!111

heh, nice sardonism.. though I hope that doesn't offend Overenthusiastic Pirate.. :/

[Excelsior]

I am heartily offended. I hereby slap your right cheek with my glove and challenge you to a duel. It is the only way to redeem my honor. In light of this being a thread about a Kitamura project, I propose katanas and sniper rifles at dawn. You may have a zombie of your choice as your second.

Really, what else is there to say? It sounds to me like an imbalance in the movie - too much of one thing in the first part, too much of something else in the second. But this is all based on the reportings of one person who may or may not have seen the finished product. Like I said earlier, there's no guarantee that what is being reported is accurate, or if it is, that it will still be accurate when the movie's released.

I'll still see the movie (hopefully), and hopefully I'll like it as something more than a fast-forward-to-the-monsters time filler. I've also said many times that I enjoy the smash-em-up kaiju flick as much as the next guy. But when the other ingredients are kept on track, the final experience is so much better.

[Charles RB]

This film is another Godzilla (1998) and GMK, in which the film is different from normal Godzilla films, so fans whine.

Let's not forget G98 was not different so much as completely different to any Godzilla movie ever, and also was a bad movie.

[Cookson]

Let's not forget G98 was not different so much as completely different to any Godzilla movie ever, and also was a bad movie.
G'98 wasnt a bad movie.

I think the people having mixed emotions wont complain after they se the movie. We dont control the movie.

[Solar_Behemoth]

I am heartily offended.

No! No, no, Pirate!
I wasn't making fun of your comment and your opinion, I was just joking about how there are many youngsters who make the excuse of "his 50th Anniversary" which means he should be in the entire movie. 90% is alot of screentime.
I find it good that the other monsters will get alot of attention too- because if it weren't for the monsters the Big G faced, he wouldn't be here today.

[Charles RB]

G'98 wasnt a bad movie.

It was. The plot was bad, the acting was bad, the characters were bad, the monster action was bad, even the damn special effects were bad and it's an $100+ million SFX movie! (Some of the time the monster and the buildings looked faker than the Toho films, which is frankly embarassing; it was CGi-heavy and looked it) All that adds up to a bad movie.

[PyrasTerran]

Charles RB has a point, G'98 isn't a good choice to trying to examplify a controversial Godzilla movie, because G'98 has absolutely NOTHING about it that is related to Godzilla other than size, radioactivity and the name.

[BS Digital Q]

G'98 has absolutely NOTHING about it that is related to Godzilla other than size, radioactivity and the name.
Ah, so its GINSOO!

Godzilla
In
Name,
Size, and
Origin
Only

[Excelsior]

No! No, no, Pirate!
I wasn't making fun of your comment and your opinion, I was just joking about how there are many youngsters who make the excuse of "his 50th Anniversary" which means he should be in the entire movie. 90% is alot of screentime.
I find it good that the other monsters will get alot of attention too- because if it weren't for the monsters the Big G faced, he wouldn't be here today.

Sorry, I was only kidding. I thought my playful sarcasm (or sardonism, if you prefer :) ) would come through, but the danged text robbed me of my intent.

I wasn't bothered in the least. We're all here to share opinions, after all. Right?

[PyrasTerran]

Ah, so its GINSOO!

Godzilla
In
Name,
Size, and
Origin
Only

lol, not even origin. GINO was created by the French.

Which reminds me.. does anyone know exactly how the French figured out it was there fault in the movie??

[SandwormPhish]

They're the only people still doing atomic testing out there as I recall.

[Excelsior]

Gino's roar, translated, says "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"

[Pkmatrix]

Ah, so its GINSOO!

Godzilla
In
Name,
Size, and
Origin
Only

Ginsoo...isn't that a kind of tea? o_O

[Enshohma]

Well, despite the early negative reactions, I'm still going to keep open-minded on the whole matter until I see it for myself...which will be sooner then expected *wink*

(though based on past exspirances, I doubt anyone will be reading my post, heck I could reveal the meaning of life and no one would notice. If fact I could say anything I want...I don't care what country you come from or support, humans generally suck! See, nothing...there's no such thing as evil, only pathetic cowards preying on gullible idiots...Michelle Kwan, Susan Luchi, Minka and Heather Matarazzo are all cuties! See, still nothing...Godzilla himself can be as overrated as Mothra...okay, I might get some response from that).

But it will be interesting to see how "Godzilla: Final Wars" stands up to "Destroy All Monsters" since the latter, although lacking nonstop monster battles, still spun a fairly decent story.

Personally though, some plot would be nice. Sorry, but I wasn't so forgiving of the Resident Evil sequel as most fans were. But then again, plot or no plot, it was a stupidly written thing anyway.

[EternalMothra]

I don't have a problem with GINO, I do have to admit that I was a bit disappointed about the movie. Now about GFW. I'm still looking at the bright side of things. I'm sure this movie will have a plot, but it will be shrouded with all the action that is going on. This movie will be just fine......

[Gojira2000]

It was. The plot was bad, the acting was bad, the characters were bad, the monster action was bad, even the damn special effects were bad and it's an $100+ million SFX movie! (Some of the time the monster and the buildings looked faker than the Toho films, which is frankly embarassing; it was CGi-heavy and looked it) All that adds up to a bad movie.

Very true. My little brother was watching it the other day and I walk in when the chapers were chacing GINO. I neary had a hreat attack as my mind said to itself "my God, the Japanese films look so much better! How can people watch this?!"

Gino's roar, translated, says "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"

LOL it's nice to meet another Python fan!

Well, despite the early negative reactions, I'm still going to keep open-minded on the whole matter until I see it for myself...which will be sooner then expected *wink*

Do you mean you'll be at the screening this weekend too? Jolly!

(though based on past exspirances, I doubt anyone will be reading my post, heck I could reveal the meaning of life and no one would notice. If fact I could say anything I want...I don't care what country you come from or support, humans generally suck! See, nothing...there's no such thing as evil, only pathetic cowards preying on gullible idiots...Michelle Kwan, Susan Luchi, Minka and Heather Matarazzo are all cuties! See, still nothing...Godzilla himself can be as overrated as Mothra...okay, I might get some response from that).


Godzilla will never be overrated as a moth! Never! LOL

It nice to we can all actually get alone. :)

[Doc Ock]

Time for the doctor to step in.
People, board members, kaiju fans, any others, we've been wating almost an entire year for this movie and one little negative review is gonna stop us from seeing this movie. Ebert gave Man on Fire a not so good review, yet I saw it and really enjoyed it. Ebert gave AvP 1 star and I still......somewhat enjoyed it(though it was pretty much a crapfest). I am still seing this movie because I am a die-hard Godzilla fan. I have seen great(Godzilla) and bad(Godzilla vs Megalon) and ugly(Godzilla's Revenge) but did it stop me? No! So what do ya'll say?:)

[kent]

Before I give my two cents worth, I just want to express how offended I am at Project Pimp's post saying that he hopes it sucks so Kitamura does not look like a god of movie-making. It is absurd! No Godzilla fan should hope that a Godzilla film does poorly just because you have something against someone behind-the-scenes. I'm sorry, but it sickens me!

As far as the comments being posted on the movie, I had high hopes about the film and that has not changed one bit. I like Godzilla movies that some just plainly despise; and it does not bother me at all. I'll bet my bottom dollar that when the film hits U.S. shores, that those who feel even slightly skeptical about the film, will come out amazed and delighted.
All I can say is that, in my opinion, GFW most likely will end up being one of the better films of the Shinsei era and possibly the best Godzilla film (in terms of fans having positive feedback on it) since the latter part of the Heisei era.

[Baran-no-goji]

G'98 wasnt a bad movie.

I think the people having mixed emotions wont complain after they se the movie. We dont control the movie.
My opinion but everything about GINO....ugh. Even if it didn't have a monster named Godzilla the script was still a mess, acting sub par, scenes frokm better movies being ripped off and Devlin and Emmerich still dont say they made a bad movie- There are continuity and gaps in reality up the wazoo.

[Charles RB]

Which reminds me.. does anyone know exactly how the French figured out it was there fault in the movie??

Philipe Roach used his magical spy powers which also enabled him to spy on a mayor, set up a massive armed French Secret Service base in NYC and all that without the CIA/FBI/Traffic Wardens ever noticing. :)

[godofPH]

It was. The plot was bad, the acting was bad, the characters were bad, the monster action was bad, even the damn special effects were bad and it's an $100+ million SFX movie! (Some of the time the monster and the buildings looked faker than the Toho films, which is frankly embarassing; it was CGi-heavy and looked it) All that adds up to a bad movie.
Zilla's movie had better SFX than any film toho could ever put out. Toho has a problem, they make movies with 5 million dollar budgets. Turn that 5 million into a 5 billion and then they would have the potential to throw out something that would impress the americans.

About ppl suspecting GFW of sucking, how did I see this coming? I knew this would happen WAY back when I found out the plot. Back in August. I knew this movie would be bad and I wasn't going to waste my energy being excited about it.

[PyrasTerran]

Zilla's movie had better SFX than any film toho could ever put out. Toho has a problem, they make movies with 5 million dollar budgets. Turn that 5 million into a 5 billion and then they would have the potential to throw out something that would impress the americans.

You show me a movie with 5 billion dollar budget movie and I'll show you a Kong that can fly with mind powers.

And in some movies I'd take Godzilla's SFX any day over GINO's. At least sometimes Goji effects look real. YOu can always tell when GINO is in CGI.

[Charles RB]

Zilla's movie had better SFX than any film toho could ever put out.

No it didn't. The effects all looked faker than most of Toho's films- you could tell the monster and buildings were CGI, which is far less impressive than if you can tell they're models & suits. At least with the latter, the destruction & pyrotechnics is 'real'.

[Megabyte]

(throws in two pennies)*Sigh* since the glass is half full for me today, think of it this way- since Toho is allowing people to see the film in advance it shows that it's not all that bad and they have complete faith in the film. History has shown as that when studios do not allow advance screeners, it means that they have no faith in the film and that its going to be a bomb i.e. Tristar's Godzilla.

Also, the reason why Toho "spends 5 million bucks" is because the difference the dollar and the yen! If I recall correctly 1 billion yen equals to about 23 million dollars, so no matter how you look at it Toho's budget is always going to look incredibly smaller than any U.S. productions!

And finally, what Godzilla film doesn't bring in mix reviews? Someone will always find a problem in any of these films! And one review should never spoil the fun of a movie goer!
There i said it, now get outta here :p

[Solar_Behemoth]

No it didn't. The effects all looked faker than most of Toho's films- you could tell the monster and buildings were CGI, which is far less impressive than if you can tell they're models & suits

Far less? Well, okay, that's your opinion.
In the case of the Showa, Heisei, and all of the Shinsei Godzilla films (I don't think they're are any others left), that is completely the opposite for me. Godzilla (1998) had better SFX than all of the Toho G films, IMO.

They were easily more realistic than guys in latex suits hopping around obvious minatures with wires visible. :cough G vs. Megalon cough:

[BS Digital Q]

Far less? Well, okay, that's your opinion.
In the case of the Showa, Heisei, and all of the Shinsei Godzilla films (I don't think they're are any others left), that is completely the opposite for me. Godzilla (1998) had better SFX than all of the Toho G films, IMO.

They were easily more realistic than guys in latex suits hopping around obvious minatures with wires visible. :cough G vs. Megalon cough:
And that is coming from a guy who says that the SPFX in a Godzilla movie are better than those in Hulk.

Yeah........right........:sleepy:

[Solar_Behemoth]

And that is coming from a guy who says that the SPFX in a Godzilla movie are better than those in Hulk.

Yeah........right........:sleepy:

:laugh: Oh how typical....

Go back and read what I said in that topic. :sleepy:

[Studio Asperger]

I think I can safely say that the GINO debate should be placed somewhere else.:p As to the matter of GFW...

Well, I try to keep an open mind - if I didn't I certainly wouldn't've checked out any Godzilla movies - but someone already comparing this film to something like Van Helsing is not filling me with confidence. In my opinion Van Helsing was pure garbage, and I'm uneasy that someone in Toho has decided to follow Hollywood's recent example of churning out pointless action flicks.

Think about it - why do so many people so fondly remember 'earlier' action films like Aliens or Terminator 2? It's not due to fanboyism or rose-tinted nostalgia, it's because they're genuinely good action films that managed to get the balance between story and action just right. The stories weren't just pathetic excuses for continuous action as in recent blockbusters, they provided us with characters we actually gave a damn about, and the action was powerful without being overly dominating, complimenting the story rather than dominating it. It's a balance that Hollywood has unfortunately never been able to reclaim.

Earlier Melkor rightly stated that no-brainer action is good, but excessive amounts of it isn't.

Anyway, I'll reserve judgement on GFW until I've actually seen it, but let's never forget - we can't let rabid fanboyism blind our judgement. A bad movie is still a bad movie (and not in the B-movie sense either), no matter what big names it has attached.

[Godzilla40000]

I think its all right that theres not much of a plot. There are some movies that you dont need much of a plot. I think GWF is one of those movies.

[Gojira2000]

Well, I try to keep an open mind - if I didn't I certainly wouldn't've checked out any Godzilla movies - but someone already comparing this film to something like Van Helsing is not filling me with confidence. In my opinion Van Helsing was pure garbage, and I'm uneasy that someone in Toho has decided to follow Hollywood's recent example of churning out pointless action flicks.

Think about it - why do so many people so fondly remember 'earlier' action films like Aliens or Terminator 2? It's not due to fanboyism or rose-tinted nostalgia, it's because they're genuinely good action films that managed to get the balance between story and action just right. The stories weren't just pathetic excuses for continuous action as in recent blockbusters, they provided us with characters we actually gave a damn about, and the action was powerful without being overly dominating, complimenting the story rather than dominating it. It's a balance that Hollywood has unfortunately never been able to reclaim

Amen. If you're going to have non-stop action, then give us a reason for so we don't fall asleep during the film. I don't know why Hollywood prises itself for its films, for, as Studio Asperger brought out, they haven't been all that good lately. They just keep making senceless action films, silly sequels, and poor remakes. Now, don't go ripping me out for having just said this about Hollywood, for I still enojoy some of their films, and they are one of the greatest film compenies in world, but they're running out of ideas. At least Toho knows when to quite. :)

[Darth Reaper]

Amen. If you're going to have non-stop action, then give us a reason for so we don't fall asleep during the film. I don't know why Hollywood prises itself for its films, for, as Studio Asperger brought out, they haven't been all that good lately.- Gojira2000

Well, that's a matter of opinion. There were plenty of things about VAN HELSING that I would have done differently, but I still enjoyed the film, and for me that's the point.

[darthzilla99]

GFW having tons of non-stop action the bigest reason why I want to see it.
(just hope it is not r-rated). There are some movies that due better with having good story lines and some action (ex. fantasy movies or drumas), and others having little story line and lots of action (ex.monster movies). That is what I look for in monster movies, lots of action. I don't to hear about the people talking about who loves who, who wants revange on who, I just want good monster action.

I know, someone on this thread will be replying to my post with something like "this coming from a guy who thinks gmk sucks and thinks godzilla vs. spacegodzilla is the best godzilla movie" or something of that sort, but you know what, I don't give a flying monkey about it. In my opinion, If you watch a godzilla movie to see mainly the human druma and not for the monster action, then you are not a true godzilla fan.

off topic: why does everbody think Van helsing has a bad story line?
It had a very good story line and did well with making all the chacters an important part of the movie, with the exception of Mr.Hyde being cannon fodder.

[Pkmatrix]

GFW having tons of non-stop action the bigest reason why I want to see it.
(just hope it is not r-rated). There are some movies that due better with having good story lines and some action (ex. fantasy movies or drumas), and others having little story line and lots of action (ex.monster movies). That is what I look for in monster movies, lots of action. I don't to hear about the people talking about who loves who, who wants revange on who, I just want good monster action.

I know, someone on this thread will be replying to my post with something like "this coming from a guy who thinks gmk sucks and thinks godzilla vs. spacegodzilla is the best godzilla movie" or something of that sort, but you know what, I don't give a flying monkey about it. In my opinion, If you watch a godzilla movie to see mainly the human druma and not for the monster action, then you are not a true godzilla fan.

off topic: why does everbody think Van helsing has a bad story line?
It had a very good story line and did well with making all the chacters an important part of the movie, with the exception of Mr.Hyde being cannon fodder.

My family and I enjoyed Van Helsing when we saw on DVD not too long ago. It reminded me of the old classic Universal flicks, especially the black-and-white intro. Even though it obviously isn't one of the best movies of the year (There were only two plot developments I DIDN'T see coming), we still found it fun. It had great action, nice SPFX, and enough plot to keep up interested. If GFW is at least as good as Van Helsing, I will be satisfied.

Also, here's something to think about: my father is big on action movies and has enjoyed CGI bonanzas like The Day After Tomorrow (A surprisingly good movie) and The Mummy, but even he has complained about the overuse of CGI in more recent movies like The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Van Helsing. After watching Van Helsing, he complained that the monsters NEVER looked convincing...they always looked like they were CGI. We ultimately came to the decision that Underworld was an overall better movie than Van Helsing, but despite this conclusion we still enjoyed Van Helsing for what it was: a fun action-adventure movie.

I think for Godzilla fans need to take this approach and simply ENJOY GFW, not pick it apart. Who cares if it isn't as good as some other Godzilla movies? JUST ENJOY IT. :)

[Excelsior]

In my opinion, If you watch a godzilla movie to see mainly the human druma and not for the monster action, then you are not a true godzilla fan.

Kaiju movies can be very good when they're just monster romps. But when they add a halfway involving story line to complement them, they can become great.

off topic: why does everbody think Van helsing has a bad story line?
It had a very good story line and did well with making all the chacters an important part of the movie, with the exception of Mr.Hyde being cannon fodder.

I thought the potential story line was the best thing they had. Cool hero battling classic Universal monsters? Gold. The execution was what was lacking (in my opinion).

[Studio Asperger]

Fair enough, people's tastes differ, and I'm not slating anybody for that. I personally felt Van Helsing insulted my intelligence, throwing in a load of pretentious, convenient idiocy in the plot that covered up for the fact that it was nothing but a pathetic excuse for more action. It wouldn't be so bad if the whole film was played for laughs, but the creators expect us to take it seriously. Again, that's purely my opinion, and I expect people to at least not criticise each other for their opinions.

Anyway, Van Helsing's beside the point. I was just concerned that GFW was going to imitate Hollywood in its recent 'all flash, no substance' way of thinking.

I know what you're thinking - 'then why do you like Godzilla movies if they insult your intelligence?'. The fact is, they don't because I KNOW what to expect from a Godzilla film. Toho tell it to you straight - it's about guys in rubber suits smashing up model buildings. They don't even try to cover up the banality of their plots, in fact they positively revel in it. That's why it's impossible to criticise a Godzilla movie for bad plotting - they're B-movies in their purest form, self-aware of their own banality and loving it. Not to say there's no such thing as a bad B-movie, but even then they'd have to be truly terrible to be classed as bad B-movies.

However, when Toho DO go the extra mile and put in a great plot with human characters we care about, then the results speak for themselves. KOTM is regarded as a masterpiece for its portrayal of the horrors the humans experience during Godzilla's raids, and G2K, in my opinion, struck a superb balance between monster action and decent human storytelling. Although I've never seen a Gamera movie I know they've received critical acclaim for their balance of monster action and strong human storytelling. So nobody can say that Toho shouldn't concentrate on the human side of things - they're perfectly within their rights to choose whether they do or not, but to me choosing to add in a believable human element gives a Godzilla movie that extra touch of class.

I do agree on one thing - let's not judge this movie even before we've seen it. We can have preconceptions, but we can't let those cloud our judgement of the finished product.

I will just say this though... A true Godzilla fan can tell the difference between a good Godzilla movie and a bad Godzilla movie, regardless of the film's origin or of the 'monster/human' ratio.

[Figment]

Well, I try to keep an open mind - if I didn't I certainly wouldn't've checked out any Godzilla movies - but someone already comparing this film to something like Van Helsing is not filling me with confidence. In my opinion Van Helsing was pure garbage, and I'm uneasy that someone in Toho has decided to follow Hollywood's recent example of churning out pointless action flicks.
When I compared it to Van Helsing, I meant that Toho took elements from most of their science fiction films like the kaiju list and Gorath and Atragon like Universal put Wolfman, Dracula, Mr. Hyde and Frankenstien into one film.

[PyrasTerran]

This movie seems to have a good ratio, IMO. The main monster events don't even occur until an hour later in the movie, and even past the first hour up to the end the humans still play a very significant role. This is one of the few Godzilla movies I can name off the top of my head where the humans play major roles in the story and are more than just filler that stand and watch helplessly as the monsters combat. The millenium series was good at this, better than in most of the Heisei series, anyway.

[Studio Asperger]

When I compared it to Van Helsing, I meant that Toho took elements from most of their science fiction films like the kaiju list and Gorath and Atragon like Universal put Wolfman, Dracula, Mr. Hyde and Frankenstien into one film.
Really? Sorry for the misunderstanding there. My opinion on Van Helsing still stands, but let's not drag THAT argument up again!

If GFW gets released on Hong Kong DVD - most of the millenium series (except Tokyo SOS, or at least I can't find it) has been released there, and all have English subtitles to go with the Cantonese dubbing (though they can be played in Japanese as well, with Chinese subtitles) - I'll import it and see what it's like. Mind you, in my opinion G2K's gonna be a hard act to follow. I'll have to get used to this apparent monster overload.

[godofPH]

If they are going to have Earth's last ditch effort to fend off the kaiju, you need G-Force MOGUERA and Kiryu. Gotengo is good, but get the hell rid of the mutants and their damn motorcycles.

[darthzilla99]

[QUOTE=Overenthusiastic Pirate]Kaiju movies can be very good when they're just monster romps. But when they add a halfway involving story line to complement them, they can become great.


I know, but what I am talking about is people who claim they are godzilla fans, but they say stuff like "this godzilla movie sucks because the human acting was not good" or somthing along those lines.
But if the godzilla movies or any monster movies can get both lots of monster action and great human druma, then I am all for it.

Personally, I would have loved it if they had made GFW a 3-4 hour long movie with lots of monster action and good human acting, But I can understand with the movie buget.

[Solar_Behemoth]

If they are going to have Earth's last ditch effort to fend off the kaiju, you need G-Force MOGUERA and Kiryu. Gotengo is good, but get the hell rid of the mutants and their damn motorcycles.
WTF? You need to keep up with the current news.
The mutants are not going to be fighting the kaiju hand-to-hand OR with motorcycles.

[Project Pimp]

First off, the mutants are not even successful at driving away the monsters.

[ALLOSAURZ]

So what about humans vs Kaiju like in GXM or G vs Biollante among others?

[CBright7831]

ALL OF MY ANTICIPATION IS SLOWLY BUT SURELY GOING DOWN THE TOILET.

So much for the this grand event of G's 50th Anniversary.

It's about time for me to retire from the board since there will be soon nothing to talk about.

[Eric Von Zipper]

Hi all,

Today I heard a bad rumour that is climbing in Japanese Godzilla fan circle. It is that Toho company is angry :angry: at film that which Kitamura director deliveried to Toho. Many bad blood is boiling:devil: . (This is a new phrase I was teached. Did I use it OK?:cool: )

I do not know this as facts but I heared from two movie connection buddies.:hmmm:

Before movies as GMK and GxMG open, people say things of condrodictory thinking. But somehow this is different. It is never be so hateful. :cursing:

I hope it not is true. I will plan to go first day and try my best to enjoy. :thumbs:

EVZ

[Excelsior]

Yes, Eric, you used the phrase just fine. Keep up the hard work!

Interesting. Toho's not happy with Kitamura's film? I wonder what didn't meet their expectations.

[Kaiju_Sensai]

Just three short days away for those lucky crapheads who get to go see it, if you haven't left for California already, you'll be able to judge it for yourself. Have fun guys, whether you enjoy the movie or not. Man I wish I could go back to California.

[PyrasTerran]

Eric's response worries me.. Is there being more disdain over this movie than the Millenium movies??

[Mecha74]

Interesting, I don't think we have seen an unhappy Toho scenario since Gino. But I ofcourse am one of those idiotic g-fans that dares to enjoy films like G vs Megalon and Spacegodzilla so I do not care. I still can't wait to see this film!

[Figment]

I think Toho is mad that Kitamura didn't put in Kiryu or something, even though he wanted to put him in along with Gorosaurus. But I don't care, I want to see this movie!

[Excelsior]

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that the Toho execs probably share the same misgivings about the action scenes that some fans do. Though they only have themselves to blame if that's the case, unless they never bothered to check the background of the man they entrusted GFW to.

[Cookson]

I hope that TOHO isnt made because of Kitamura not putting in another Kaiju because that's something that could have easily been fixed a long time ago. I still am confused on why they are anyway because anything could have been fixed along time ago.

[Solar_Behemoth]

It is that Toho company is angry :angry: at film that which Kitamura director deliveried to Toho.

Well hey, if Toho is truely angry at Toho, maybe they'll dish out a "second" 50th Anniversary film to keep the fanboys happy! :D Two movies for the price of one 50th anniversary! ;)

[Figment]

Well hey, if Toho is truely angry at Toho, maybe they'll dish out a "second" 50th Anniversary film to keep the fanboys happy! :D Two movies for the price of one 50th anniversary! ;) cough*IMAXmovie*cough

[Monsturra-Jake]

Arggh, daikaiju fans are whining yet again. I say this, the movie is coming out soon, and prehaps some people will like it(I am being realistic here). I say let's wait till more official words come out from people who probably are Godzilla fans.

[Mothraleo]

Arggh, daikaiju fans are whining yet again. I say this, the movie is coming out soon, and prehaps some people will like it(I am being realistic here). I say let's wait till more official words come out from people who probably are Godzilla fans.

Yah, like Tom of Claw Mark Toys. Honestally, so many Godzilla movies are stepped on by critics that aren't fans, I'm surprised so many people are bothered by a few for Final Wars.

[CBright7831]

If TOHO is upset about the film, they have nobody to blame but themself.

They knew what they were getting into when they hired Kitamura

If this movie is a bad as everybody is saying, this is a sad way for the monster king to go out.

[RyougaSaotome]

Coming out of the closet to say this, but its amazing the contreversy surrounding the film, and the way it's been pitting fans against each other. We've had two moderately neutral reviews so far, and about three horrendously negative ones stating that this film was a parody, and it's a failure, and blah blah laddee ladee daa. However, if this is being labeled a parody film, a comparison can be made. Killbill Vol 1 was considered by many japanese to be a parody film, and many Hardcore purists despised the film, saying it was a complete and total failure at everything it tried to do. In the meanwhile, the general Japanese public enjoyed the film, and lets not go into how the Americans excepted it. So if Killbill is a parody of Asian cinema, then what is GFW? A parody of Kaiju cinema? A parody that combines the past fifty years of asian cinema into one film? So what can we expect then? And even more importantly, how can we form positive or negative opinions based on the reviews we've seen, when they've been shakey from the beginning? What they considered a parody and a failure, (The purists I mean), we considered a success on all fronts, and a terrible entertaining film. Just something to chew on.

EDIT: One more important bit. If toho is mad at what Kitamura has created, I'm not worried in the least. If anything, it makes me happy because that means he didn't just go the standard way Toho wanted. He went and made his own creation. I'm still terribly excited for this film.

[CBright7831]

EDIT: One more important bit. If toho is mad at what Kitamura has created, I'm not worried in the least. If anything, it makes me happy because that means he didn't just go the standard way Toho wanted. He went and made his own creation. I'm still terribly excited for this film.

Dean Devlin didn't go by TOHO's standards either, and look what happened to his movie.

EDIT - Of course, Dean Devlin bastarized everything about Godzilla and tried to make his own version.

[RyougaSaotome]

A lot of people have been comparing D&R to Kitamura, and I personally find that to be a completely offbase comparison...but ah well..

[godofPH]

Dean Devlin didn't go by TOHO's standards either, and look what happened to his movie.

EDIT - Of course, Dean Devlin bastarized everything about Godzilla and tried to make his own version.
I could of made a better goji movie than Devlin... if I had the 100 million budget and resources.

[Studio Asperger]

Coming out of the closet to say this, but its amazing the contreversy surrounding the film, and the way it's been pitting fans against each other. We've had two moderately neutral reviews so far, and about three horrendously negative ones stating that this film was a parody, and it's a failure, and blah blah laddee ladee daa. However, if this is being labeled a parody film, a comparison can be made. Killbill Vol 1 was considered by many japanese to be a parody film, and many Hardcore purists despised the film, saying it was a complete and total failure at everything it tried to do. In the meanwhile, the general Japanese public enjoyed the film, and lets not go into how the Americans excepted it. So if Killbill is a parody of Asian cinema, then what is GFW? A parody of Kaiju cinema? A parody that combines the past fifty years of asian cinema into one film? So what can we expect then? And even more importantly, how can we form positive or negative opinions based on the reviews we've seen, when they've been shakey from the beginning? What they considered a parody and a failure, (The purists I mean), we considered a success on all fronts, and a terrible entertaining film. Just something to chew on.

EDIT: One more important bit. If toho is mad at what Kitamura has created, I'm not worried in the least. If anything, it makes me happy because that means he didn't just go the standard way Toho wanted. He went and made his own creation. I'm still terribly excited for this film.
You know, it's funny you should say that. Looking through reviews for G2K on the web, I've noticed that some have classed it as a parody of GINO. When you play the two movies, it's not hard to see where this comes from - the Toho reworkings of scenes from GINO, as well as the eventual appearance of Orga at the end, are all signs that Toho was rather keen to 'take the p*ss' out of GINO (they also seemed to have a shot at D&E's earlier movies, Independence Day inparticular).

In the midst of all this though, G2K also points to the creators having a sly, self-depreciating sense of humour, as some elements seemed to poke fun at certain elements of the earlier Godzilla movies themselves. It was suggested in one review that Katagiri (the most underdeveloped character in the film) could be a swipe at the poor characterisations of some of the earlier Godzilla films (the Heisei series inparticular), and could also be the anti-Serizawa in some way - if anyone cares to elaborate on this please do so.

It could be said that in some Godzilla films Toho have often taken the p*ss out of certain establishments in contemporary cinema. The continued use of suitmation could well be Toho's little swipe at Hollywood SFX - a sort of 'non-conformist' attitude on the part of the studio. Look at G2K again - Orga's first form is CGI, but is quickly mutated into suitmation form. This could be Toho saying to Hollywood studios "We don't need your flashy special effects, we've got our own style, and we're NOT going to change just to please the moneymen!"

So, could it be possible that Kitamura wants to take the p*ss out of certain establishments in Kaiju cinema? Is that why several have already labelled the film a 'parody'?

Certainly provides food for thought, doesn't it?

[Solar_Behemoth]

If this movie is a bad as everybody is saying, this is a sad way for the monster king to go out.

......... What is this?
"Everybody" is simply a couple of people. And there are alot of positive remarks on this film too. In fact, I don't even think those "bad" remarks on this film were that bad at all. They just pointed out flaws in the movie. Oh wait, this is the 50th Anniversary movie? Then of course it must be flawless. Nevermind.

[RyougaSaotome]

You know, it's funny you should say that. Looking through reviews for G2K on the web, I've noticed that some have classed it as a parody of GINO. When you play the two movies, it's not hard to see where this comes from - the Toho reworkings of scenes from GINO, as well as the eventual appearance of Orga at the end, are all signs that Toho was rather keen to 'take the p*ss' out of GINO (they also seemed to have a shot at D&E's earlier movies, Independence Day inparticular).

In the midst of all this though, G2K also points to the creators having a sly, self-depreciating sense of humour, as some elements seemed to poke fun at certain elements of the earlier Godzilla movies themselves. It was suggested in one review that Katagiri (the most underdeveloped character in the film) could be a swipe at the poor characterisations of some of the earlier Godzilla films (the Heisei series inparticular), and could also be the anti-Serizawa in some way - if anyone cares to elaborate on this please do so.

It could be said that in some Godzilla films Toho have often taken the p*ss out of certain establishments in contemporary cinema. The continued use of suitmation could well be Toho's little swipe at Hollywood SFX - a sort of 'non-conformist' attitude on the part of the studio. Look at G2K again - Orga's first form is CGI, but is quickly mutated into suitmation form. This could be Toho saying to Hollywood studios "We don't need your flashy special effects, we've got our own style, and we're NOT going to change just to please the moneymen!"

So, could it be possible that Kitamura wants to take the p*ss out of certain establishments in Kaiju cinema? Is that why several have already labelled the film a 'parody'?

Certainly provides food for thought, doesn't it?


You make incredibly valid points here, and this was exactly the sort of response I had hoped for from the very beginning. Kitamura is simply changing the way things are done. We all know how Much Toho Despises Change..(A whole lot), and we all know that the hardcore purists will be as displeased as the Toho Execs are. I'm not at all surprised with these reviews thus far.

[Shin lvl2 Goji]

The comment about Final Wars being a parody in some ways I don't beleive. I think some fans have labelled it to be that since it doesn't reach their standards. Kitamura is just doing the movie in his style, not making Godzilla out to be a joke he's even said that he's honored to do a Godzilla film and is taking it very seriously. The problem is that some people won't accept the way he does things as being serious and treating it with respect. As for Toho being mad at what Kitamura's made for the 50th (if that rumor's true) I'm not surprised one bit. They seem to have gotten very set in their ways in the recent past and at the sight of something new it upsets them. You could even go back to Hedorah when that movie came out, they threw Banno right off the director's chair after seeing it and said he ruined Godzilla. What happened right after that? They came back with Gigan and more movies (some of the most memorable in fact) and some people actually liked G vs Hedorah, it wasn't ruined. People need to relax and appreciate Godzilla movies that aren't done to "The Toho Standard Formula". I've read there was a comment that the score seems to be like more of a tribute to Sato than Ifukube. Is there a problem with that? I happen to like Sato's scores more in a lot of cases anyway, does that make me a non-fan? *shame on me:notify:* Of course not that's ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with not doing it by the old family recipe (add 1 Mothra, 2 cups of Ghidorah,bring standard Ifukube score to a steady boil, and add a dash of no new monsters while repeating scenes already seen in older movies "as tribute" instead of coming up with new moves and things we haven't seen. Bake the mixture in less than a year of production time at 350º) as long as it's a quality movie.

[Solar_Behemoth]

I certainly would rather of had this movie made instead of Mr. Tezuuka's replacement entry into the Godzilla series: Godzilla X King Ghidorah X Mechagodzilla. That would be so much better! Imagine, a heroine that has a relationship with a robot! So original! Then, Toho finds a way for Ghidorah to be against Godzilla so Kiryu and him would gang-up on Godzilla! Awesome! Oh, and greatest of all, Godzilla damages Kiryu so it can't work, so the heroine has to go into Kiryu to repair him to save the day! A heart-warming climax! :sigh:

[RyougaSaotome]

I feel as though thats JUST what this series needs! XD

[Monsturra-Jake]

^ finally, someone who gets it! I guess I am tired of the rehashed-Heisei storylines. At least, GxM had a fun storyline(and GMK was ok). To me, the best Godzilla era was Showa, cause you had interesting human characters, and cool monsters. I am not worried at all about this film, cause I rather have a action-packed kaiju-fu flick than another boring story.

[Kiryu goji]

Yah, like Tom of Claw Mark Toys. Honestally, so many Godzilla movies are stepped on by critics that aren't fans, I'm surprised so many people are bothered by a few for Final Wars.

I know what you mean. My hometown newspaper gave g2k a bad review simply because 'After 45 years, couldn't the japanese have better special effects?' Whoop de do!

[CBright7831]

......... What is this?
"Everybody" is simply a couple of people. And there are alot of positive remarks on this film too. In fact, I don't even think those "bad" remarks on this film were that bad at all. They just pointed out flaws in the movie. Oh wait, this is the 50th Anniversary movie? Then of course it must be flawless. Nevermind.
Where are these positive reviews at?

[RyougaSaotome]

Though not what I'd call positive, the most recent seemed neutral, and some of the random little snippets we've recieved have been between positive and negative.

[Saruman]

^ finally, someone who gets it! I guess I am tired of the rehashed-Heisei storylines. At least, GxM had a fun storyline(and GMK was ok). To me, the best Godzilla era was Showa, cause you had interesting human characters, and cool monsters. I am not worried at all about this film, cause I rather have a action-packed kaiju-fu flick than another boring story.
Not that I disagree with you because I pretty much agree with what you said. The problem for me with this movie, compared to the Showa era seems to be that it is JUST an action movie with no real story or interesting characters except for the Xillian Commander. The Showa movies were great not simply because of the Kaiju action, but they had cool story lines and they had some damn good actors/actresses. So far from the reviews, it seems that this film is simply just action with absolutely no substance or story, that simply isn't a good thing no matter what movie it is. If thats all we are getting, just kaiju action, then this whole film is simply a complete waste of time. It definately would not be worthy of being Godzilla's 50th anniversary film either if that is the case. I really hope that these early reviews are way off, but I have this knot in my stomach thats telling me they aren't. Kitamura promised us a Godzilla film for the Matrix generation, well it looks like he may actually have done that, which is very unfortunate.

[Zigra]

Well, I'll say this: if GFW is indeed as bad as the nay-sayers claim, then I'd remind people that Kitamura is not solely to blame. If there is any one person to blame for it, it is Shogo Tomiyama. It was him who wanted to make a Godzilla film "for the Matrix Generation", and Kitamura simply made the kind of movie Tomiyama wanted him to make. If Tomiyama wanted Kitamura to make a darker, more serious film (say, a G54 remake), I'm sure Kitamura would have gladly made it. People forget how much the Producer has a say in what goes into a film.

Frankly, I place a huge amount of the downward spiral the G series has taken since 2000 at Tomiyama's feet. Have you guys listened to this man talk? I've never known a man who is more clueless or more out-of-touch with what sort of movie the fans want to see than he is (not even ol' George Judas). "Matrix Generation"? Give me a break! Perhaps if Tomiyama got his lazy @$$ out of his office and stopped looking at only charts and graphs once in awhile, he'd know that there is no such thing as a "Matrix Generation". After the two Matrix sequels, the trilogy was generally crucified by movie-going audiences, and now most mainstream critics and movie-goers don't take that style of movie-making seriously anymore (except for certain hack-job directors like Paul W.S. Anderson). And don't even get me started on Tomiyama's stance on kaiju like Ghidorah and Mothra being "more marketable" than other kaiju......

[Monsturra-Jake]

Saurman,

I still think people are making a big deal about this movie. I think it could've been the dramatic/serious movie, but, obviously, we aren't getting that. i think I will apprecite it if it ain't totally stupid.

I say let's just see what more reliable sources will say, ok?

[Zigra]

Again, sorry to double post...


This is one of the few Godzilla movies I can name off the top of my head where the humans play major roles in the story and are more than just filler that stand and watch helplessly as the monsters combat. The millenium series was good at this, better than in most of the Heisei series, anyway.

Making criticisms of the Heisei series about things that aren't true again, eh Pyras? Humans didn't play signifigant roles in the action of the Heisei Godzilla films? Gee, I guess those weren't really humans who piloted both the Super-X and Super X-3. I guess the the battles involving Bio-Major agents and the Saradian agents in "Godzilla vs. Biollante" didn't involve humans at all. I guess those weren't humans (including a major character who got killed in that scene) who shot the ANB into Godzilla in "Godzilla vs. Biollante". I guess those weren't humans who fought the Futurtarians in "Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah". I guess that wasn't a human being who piloted Mecha Ghidorah. I suppose those weren't really humans who piloted Mechagodzilla, Garuda, and MOGUERA. And, I suppose those weren't humans in that police squad that got slaughtered by the Destoyer aggerates. Can you sense the sarcasm in this paragraph? :sarcasm:

And speaking of the Heisei series, it's times like this that I really miss Kazuki Omori. Yes, he did rip-off from numerous American movies, but at least he ripped-off from worthwhile movies (like "Little Shop of Horrors", "Aliens", "The Terminator, and even "Star Trek").

[Studio Asperger]

Not that I disagree with you because I pretty much agree with what you said. The problem for me with this movie, compared to the Showa era seems to be that it is JUST an action movie with no real story or interesting characters except for the Xillian Commander. The Showa movies were great not simply because of the Kaiju action, but they had cool story lines and they had some damn good actors/actresses. So far from the reviews, it seems that this film is simply just action with absolutely no substance or story, that simply isn't a good thing no matter what movie it is. If thats all we are getting, just kaiju action, then this whole film is simply a complete waste of time. It definately would not be worthy of being Godzilla's 50th anniversary film either if that is the case. I really hope that these early reviews are way off, but I have this knot in my stomach thats telling me they aren't. Kitamura promised us a Godzilla film for the Matrix generation, well it looks like he may actually have done that, which is very unfortunate.I agree. In my personal experience, a film does not maintain my interest unless it's got a halfway decent story and interesting characters to back up the action. I understand many people don't watch Godzilla films for the human drama, but, as I've already stated, to me having likeable, interesting human characters simply gives a Godzilla film a touch more class.

I can understand that different directors mean different directions for a film series, and that Kitamura has his own vision for how the film's gonna turn out. In my opinion though, the director's vision doesn't mean much if the end result is a worthless, steaming pile of cow dung. Paul Anderson's a good example to cite - his 'unique vision' for the Resident Evil series didn't save them from being abysmal pieces of garbage IMO.

If it's indeed the case that Kitamura is making this more of a brainless action flick, then I can't help but worry. Citing that this will be a Godzilla film for the 'Matrix Generation' is not good news to my ears. The Matrix sequels were generally hated by critics and the public alike, and let's face it, what was in the movies just isn't particularly stand-out now, since it's been done like a million times now. So trying to make out that a Godzilla film will be ideal for the non-existant Matrix Generation is not a good move on the filmmakers' part.

Don't think that I'm slating this film before it's even out. I'm trying to remain as neutral as I can until I see the film, I'm just saying I have my misgivings as to how this film'll turn out. I'm just gonna do what I always do - judge the film on its own individual merits, regardless of the director or the series' history, and rate it accordingly.

[Project Pimp]

Zigra, I believe he's referring to the fact that the characters themselves didn't do much. The people inside any of the Super X's weren't the characters, they were nothing more than extras. That's idiotic nomatter how you look at it.

And as far as idiotic goes, don't even bother mentioning some of GFW's more bizarre elements. There is absolutely nothing wrong with creativity. It's how it is executed that matters. The Heisei series, overall, screwed up royally.

I have to say, though, Kazuki Omori's flicks were right on as far as character involvement went. I truly believe fans of those two will have a helluva good time with Final Wars.

[PyrasTerran]

Making criticisms of the Heisei series about things that aren't true again, eh Pyras?

Only the kind to tick you off. ;)

Gee, I guess those weren't really humans who piloted both the Super-X and Super X-3.

I felt nothing for either group. Their roles in the movie may have been major, but to the audience they're nothing special.

I guess the the battles involving Bio-Major agents and the Saradian agents in "Godzilla vs. Biollante" didn't involve humans at all.

You're right.. they involved actors. :p

I guess those weren't humans who fought the Futurtarians in "Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah".

Technically, the droid did most of the fighting.

I guess that wasn't a human being who piloted Mecha Ghidorah.

I wish she died.

I suppose those weren't really humans who piloted Mechagodzilla, Garuda, and MOGUERA.

They all sucked *** too.

And, I suppose those weren't humans in that police squad that got slaughtered by the Destoyer aggerates.

How were the important? The only thing they did was show us that Destroyahs don't play around. But we learned that from the fish frying, their roles aren't major at all.

Can you sense the sarcasm in this paragraph?

Can you sense my apathy?



The truth is, whether you believe me or not, what I was meaning to write is that I may actually care for the humans because they're more than filler. Just because people fought people or piloted mechs in the Heisei films doesn't mean that everyone gave a damn about them. And this isn't just for the Heisei movies, the Millenium movies are to blame as well. However, their SFX and faster-paced monster battles helped make up for it at least. In Final Wars, humans make up a grand percentage of the film, and it's not just talking about moralities of science and other melodrama that never works in B movies for anything but cheese. For once a director is trying to give the humans some over-the-top dynamic roles instead of a batch of scientists, military officials that watch from the sidelines, a kenny and the occasional reporter. Although this formula may have worked 50 years ago, I haven't seen it effectively reproduced. You can say that the reason for this would be because Toho makes the movies once a year and hence give absolutely no time to create a good cast. I believe that Kitamura realizes this, so he added mutant soldiers and Matrix-wannabe aliens. Yes, it's very different from what we usually get, but it's not like what we usually get was gold.

Again, you could simply just write this off as me trying to come up with a sorry excuse for a poorly written and thought-out post. You can just look at PP's post.

agree. In my personal experience, a film does not maintain my interest unless it's got a halfway decent story and interesting characters to back up the action. I understand many people don't watch Godzilla films for the human drama, but, as I've already stated, to me having likeable, interesting human characters simply gives a Godzilla film a touch more class.

How do you know the human characters in GFW aren't interesting? What about the humanoid(Xian leader)?

I can understand that different directors mean different directions for a film series, and that Kitamura has his own vision for how the film's gonna turn out. In my opinion though, the director's vision doesn't mean much if the end result is a worthless, steaming pile of cow dung. Paul Anderson's a good example to cite - his 'unique vision' for the Resident Evil series didn't save them from being abysmal pieces of garbage IMO.

I still don't understand why so many people liked RE2.. But I heavily doubt that Paul Anderson can be compared to Ryuhei Kitamura.

If it's indeed the case that Kitamura is making this more of a brainless action flick, then I can't help but worry. Citing that this will be a Godzilla film for the 'Matrix Generation' is not good news to my ears. The Matrix sequels were generally hated by critics and the public alike, and let's face it, what was in the movies just isn't particularly stand-out now, since it's been done like a million times now. So trying to make out that a Godzilla film will be ideal for the non-existant Matrix Generation is not a good move on the filmmakers' part.

It's not like a brain-attempting action flick was working for the Godzilla series. Can someone please tell me why GvBiollante did so poorly in the box office if it's considered one of the best films around, and GvMothra was the highest grossing while we consider it the worst of its series?

Maybe brainless-action IS what Godzilla has evolved into, for better or worse.

[Studio Asperger]

How do you know the human characters in GFW aren't interesting? What about the humanoid(Xian leader)?I wasn't trying to suggest that the humans in GFW aren't interesting. I would never make such an assumption without having seen the film. I was just giving my opinion on movies in general.

I still don't understand why so many people liked RE2.. But I heavily doubt that Paul Anderson can be compared to Ryuhei Kitamura.I wasn't even trying to compare Anderson to Kitamura. I was just stating that Anderson's a good example of how a director's vision doesn't mean anything if the movie's bad (and no, I'm not trying to suggest that GFW sucks - again, I'm not gonna jump to conclusions before seeing this film).

It's not like a brain-attempting action flick was working for the Godzilla series. Can someone please tell me why GvBiollante did so poorly in the box office if it's considered one of the best films around, and GvMothra was the highest grossing while we consider it the worst of its series?
I've not seen those films myself, so no comment.

Maybe brainless-action IS what Godzilla has evolved into, for better or worse.It does seem that way. The only thing I can say for sure is that this could be one film that splits the fans right down the middle.

[PyrasTerran]

I wasn't even trying to compare Anderson to Kitamura. I was just stating that Anderson's a good example of how a director's vision doesn't mean anything if the movie's bad (and no, I'm not trying to suggest that GFW sucks - again, I'm not gonna jump to conclusions before seeing this film).


The problem is that Anderson has no vision of his own. :p

[Raptor]

Since the film has now been seen in both Japan and America, read the reviews and continue your deliberations in the "NOW what do you think of G:FW?" thread. :)