The significance of Zilla

[godofPH]

Zilla is known as a weak monster and an eternal stain on Godzilla's record. But you don't realize his importance. Toho was going to trust Sony with Godzilla's name to make a series of movies while Toho sat back and reaped royaltys. Is it any coincidence that Toho made the last Heisei film where Goji DIED a year of two before the Tristar movie was released? If Zilla's movie didn't suck, Goj wouldn't of came back for a millenium series. G2000 was an attempt to clean up Zilla's mess in Japan. If Zilla hadn't of sucked, we would of never seen GMK or the Kiryu series.

[Doc Ock]

Never looked at it that way before. Brilliant!

[godofPH]

I just had to get that out. Maybe earn Zilla some more respect. He's gained a bit of respect ever since he got his new name. Since he isn't Godzilla anymore, people aren't so mena towards him.

[kent]

I wouldn't say his movie "sucked." It was one of the higher grossing films of 1998 and #156 on the list of highest grossing U.S. films of all-time. That isn't bad considering there have been over one-hundred years of film.
And I agree, it's about time this great character gets recognized!

[Mecha74]

Though I may not care too much for the film itself personally, I am happy for it's creation because of the second renaisance that the original Godzilla experienced because of it.

The 90's were a great time to be a fan of any kind of kaiju, dinosaur, or japanese superhero. It began with the staggering and shocking success of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers in 1992, followed by the megablockbuster films Jurrasic Park(1993) and J2 the lost world(1997), and then Tristar's Zilla in 1998. All of these events had a huge impact on modern day pop culture, merchandising, television, and other films during their time. And ofcourse it is because of Zilla's failure that we are enjoying the films that would come to be known as the millenium series, so the cycle continues on. And when Peter Jackson's King Kong is finally released it will keep on going. The influence that all of these things have had and will have in the future is in my eyes a blessing. If none of these things had happened, what indeed would the current state of kaiju eiga be?

[tennart]

That "second renaisance" also got me drawing, inking, painting and Photoshopping giant monsters (or Kaiju, if you prefer), for the first time in decades, and the Tri-Star GODZILLA movie re-kindled my passion for Toho movies as well. I'm very happy to see you others here who are being honest, fair, and unbiased about films other than the Toho series. But...let's not forget the earlier works of our own American Giant Monster film heritage too, especially the works of the great Ray Harryhausen

Todd Tennant
AMERICAN KAIJU
http://tinyurl.com/6wbcb
e-mail: tennart@charter.net

AMERICAN KAIJU FORUM
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Though I may not care too much for the film itself personally, I am happy for it's creation because of the second renaisance that the original Godzilla experienced because of it.

The 90's were a great time to be a fan of any kind of kaiju, dinosaur, or japanese superhero. It began with the staggering and shocking success of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers in 1992, followed by the megablockbuster films Jurrasic Park(1993) and J2 the lost world(1997), and then Tristar's Zilla in 1998. All of these events had a huge impact on modern day pop culture, merchandising, television, and other films during their time. And ofcourse it is because of Zilla's failure that we are enjoying the films that would come to be known as the millenium series, so the cycle continues on. And when Peter Jackson's King Kong is finally released it will keep on going. The influence that all of these things have had and will have in the future is in my eyes a blessing. If none of these things had happened, what indeed would the current state of kaiju eiga be?

[Zilla Maniac]

I got nothing against him realy and his movie was okay it was just that I prefer the toho godzilla

[RexRaptor]

No matter how much i utterly hate the overgrown french Lizard, its because he sucked *** we got G2000...thank you GINO...for sucking hard! ^_^

[RobDowneyJr]

yeah, i agree, but you could also say that if Hitler never started world war II, then the U.S. never would have become a super power. I think most bad things eventually lead to good things, but i still wont forgive tristar for what they did.

[Angiru-San]

No matter how much i utterly hate the overgrown french Lizard, its because he sucked *** we got G2000...thank you GINO...for sucking hard! ^_^

You need to start watching what you say, Rex. Find a more appropriate way to express your feelings.

[Solar_Behemoth]

No matter how much i utterly hate the overgrown french Lizard, its because he sucked *** we got G2000...thank you GINO...for sucking hard! ^_^

Why does he suck? Besides the fact that he is "French."
Alot of you still need to get over that the directors of this film made their own version of Godzilla. Sure it was wildly different from the Japanese Godzilla, but jeez, it's an awesome kaiju. New York would have been screwed if he didn't get caught in those bridge wires.

No matter what people say, Godzilla (1998) had better special effects than most of the Japanese Godzilla films. The CGI for him was okay, but not great. But people say he is fake looking and the film had horrible special effects? Where did this come from?

[Angiru-San]

Why does he suck? Besides the fact that he is "French."
Alot of you still need to get over that the directors of this film made their own version of Godzilla. Sure it was wildly different from the Japanese Godzilla, but jeez, it's an awesome kaiju. New York would have been screwed if he didn't get caught in those bridge wires.

No matter what people say, Godzilla (1998) had better special effects than most of the Japanese Godzilla films. The CGI for him was okay, but not great. But people say he is fake looking and the film had horrible special effects? Where did this come from?

Today's standards and pestimistic people. At the time, they were good effects, not the best, but good.

I agree that Zilla is a unique and fun kaiju, but will never be Godzilla. However, thats not a problem with me at all...

[godofPH]

I think that everybody hates him because he's more realistis than Toho Godzilla. Face it, your more likely to see an iguana mutated by nuclear fall-out than a dinosaur that was instantley mutated by a hydrogen bomb. And I think him being killed by missiles is totally acceptable. Its like shooting an iguana with a .22 gun. If the iguana could run as fast as Zilla. Zilla's gaining respect now that he doesn't have the name Godzilla anymore.

[Roehm]

Well no matter what that goon will never get respect from me. There is no reason to day dream about what could have been, because the stuff has already happened and there is no changing it. Too me thats like wondering to myself, "hey if I didn't eat that food earlier would I be taking a crap right now?". Its just not that important, and Zilla sucks either way you look at it so don't try to sprinkle some glitter on him and say he is something grand. Thats just my opinion any way.

[Evil alla Pure]

I never hated Godzilla (1998) at all. I infact consider it a part of the actual Godzilla series. *ducks from oncoming objects* I find it the Halloween III of the Godzilla genre; had nothing whatsoever to do with the actual story line but somehow had the same title. :laugh: Seriously though found nothing wrong with the movie and the effects were okay IMO. No problems with Zilla here.

[Cole Deschain]

Hate it, loathe it, despise it- but I'm no fan of G2K, either.

In many ways, I'm also reminded of Halloween III- It's not really part of any the series' continuities (well, unless you count Kaneko's little jab in GMK), and it's generally more poorly received by the fans.

I detest GINO, but I'm also not exactly thrilled with some of Toho's output over the years. You win some, you lose some.

[godofPH]

In many ways, I'm also reminded of Halloween III- It's not really part of any the series' continuities (well, unless you count Kaneko's little jab in GMK), and it's generally more poorly received by the fans.
I hear about this little jab a lot, what exactly was it?

[Solar_Behemoth]

I hear about this little jab a lot, what exactly was it?

It was in the beginning of GMK, remember?

---EDIT---

Wait a second, you've seen GMK right?

[godofPH]

It was in the beginning of GMK, remember?

---EDIT---

Wait a second, you've seen GMK right?
No I haven't....>_<

[Shin lvl2 Goji]

An interesting question that comes up is what if it was good? Would Godzilla have stayed as an American franchise with Toho content and just leaving it in their hands? I'm sure somewhere along the line people would want to see a Japanese made Godzilla film again even if the American movies would've been successful, but then what if Toho didn't want to do it? What if they were satisfied with not having to make any more movies? This all is assuming that if GINO was a success and a series started here, which how long could it really go? I'd say a trilogy at most since any US made series with tons of sequels usually stray off or are rated badly. And according to D & E (in their own vile, perverse way) "they were sick of seeing the same movie and it was cheesy" or something to that effect and that they wanted "this to be the Godzilla people would think of". So in a way they wanted to reinvent Godzilla, thinking it would be so impressive that everyone would think G is cool and they wouldn't laugh at it. Maybe that was their first intention but it got so twisted and the gross distortion of the character, greed for money and lack of respect changed it from being a monster movie to a literal monstrosity. Looking at what was originally planned with the scripts which were more true to the real thing, it looks like that could've been what happened.

[godofPH]

If Zilla was good, in my opinion, he was. but on this what-if, sounds like a PG-13 live action version of G:TS is what I'd expect.

[kent]

The thing is Evil, Godzilla was a success. Just not with fans. If it weren't for some fans screaming "bloody murder", we would no doubt have sequels. Godzilla actually gained more respect from non-fans with this movie because they saw that Godzilla could be taken pretty seriously and not to be in a movie that made the character silly.
My dad and sister laugh at the Japanese Godzilla films all the time. Not so with Godzilla 1998. They actually enjoy it and neither of them are monster fans.

[godofPH]

^Yes, Zilla was aimed at the ppl that went to see Independance day in my opinion. And my dad thinks Toho Goji movies are ridiculous to no end, but he enjoyed Zilla's movie.

[Cole Deschain]

Not to rain all over your sunshine guys, but most people I've spoken to (not just kaiju fans) concede that the acting and human elements of the story were terrible... And unless you're a fan of giant monsters, the human element has to be strong enough to make it worth watching. So as far as prospects for a series go... not so sunny.

Honestly. Do you really think the studio would cave in to what is essentially the "lunatic fringe"? There aren't that many diehard kaij fans out there. Given the chance, they almost certainly would have milked it for all it was worth, regardless of a what a few small groups said about it.

Sadly, that just isn't the case here.

[Megabyte]

I just have to give props to Roehm, man that was beatiful! :laugh:

But to add to Cole's dark clouds, many non kaiju fans I've talked actually prefer G2K over GINO and so far only one person I've talked to actually enjoyed the US film over the Japanese films. Maybe its just me but I think people hate Zilla since you know besides being a *******ization of our titan, it was probably the sheer cockyness by D&E behind it is what pissed many of us off, or atleast me anyway.

And of course the irony is that the animated series was better recieved than the film :intears: (member.php?u=618)

[Roehm]

thanks for the props Megabyte, I was just speaking my mind. I do like how you manage to fit *******ization into yours thats awesome.

[kent]

I do agree with you Cole that some of the human elements seemed a little under par. But let's be honest here...in a monster movie, people aren't there to see a bunch of human drama, they're there to see the monster.
The acting and human element in the film wasn't as bad as what I have seen in other monster flicks. Younggary 1999 comes to mind.

[juan]

Zilla is no longer Gino (Godzilla in name only) but NEGINO (Not even Godzilla in name only). He was despised by so many Godzilla fans for dragging our fav's name through the mud and by movie critics for being lousy.

It made money? It had good effects? Turner Classic Movies had a commercial about that, people in front of "Generic Movie Theater" yelling that they "want to see the billionth sequel" or that they want to see "the movie with no actors, just special effects" or that they "want to see the idiotic action movie where stuff gets blown up."

My feelings towards the monster formarly called Gino ranged from dissapontment to anger and finally to acceptance. The movie was bad, the cartoon was ok, his Final Wars thrashing was priceless. Toho having accepted him and having baptized him with a new name, I'm more willing to accept him. Toho feels that Zilla is just another monster, though not Godzilla, and if they're willing to take it in stride, if they can take a joke, then so should we.

As for Zilla doing good for the true Godzilla... I feel that Toho would have eventually made more movies after Destroyer with or without Zilla. But he may have indeed brought those movies sooner rather than later. Its been said that God has bad things happen for a reason, and I guess this is one of them:p

[PyrasTerran]

But let's be honest here...in a monster movie, people aren't there to see a bunch of human drama, they're there to see the monster.

That's no excuse for a poor monster movie. Lots of people can go see a monster movie and expect good human drama, look at G3 or vs. Biollante. Or, you can at least have visually interesting human drama, like Final Wars.

[kent]

That's no excuse for a poor monster movie.

Your opinion

Lots of people can go see a monster movie and expect good human drama, look at G3 or vs. Biollante. Or, you can at least have visually interesting human drama, like Final Wars.


That's true, but for one you don't have many of those good monster films with human drama. Not to mention you do go to that film to see the monster otherwise you wouldn't go.

[PyrasTerran]

Your opinion

Not just mine, but alot of people's opinion.

That's true, but for one you don't have many of those good monster films with human drama. Not to mention you do go to that film to see the monster otherwise you wouldn't go.

Well, maybe if your Monster Master(I kid), but I do enjoy a good movie even if it's not a creature feature.

Saruman made a good show of trying to tell us a while back in another thread that just because a monster movie is expected to be poor in plot and human emotion doesn't mean that's the way it should be. A monster movie maker shouldn't settle. Now, for most Toho Godzilla movies you can somewhat forgive being of lesser quality because Toho only gives their directors a year to work on it(less than one, actually, considering how much time is put into actually coming up with the idea), but how long was GINO in the works? I do believe it was much more than a year. The more time you have, the less you're expected to screw up, that's pretty much an unwritten law of these kinda films.

[Megabyte]

If you want to go techincal, the concept behind a US G film has been around since the 1980s, so there was plenty of time for a good story. :p
Anyways, GINO was made to be a "popcorn flick" which means action and speical effects to blow your mind and have no substance what so ever. The story also suffers since D&E (said they) had no time to rework the film and suppostently made the final product at the 11th hour and the fact that there was little change in between the two versions of the script where as parts of ID4 underwent drastic changes and even reshot the ending before it was released. GINO had none of that...

[Morgoth]

"Pocorn flick'? I swear upon the nameless spawn of the Horned Rat, if I see one more idiot try to defend a dumb-*** pile of crap like GINO or Eight Legged Freaks with that moronic dodge those two pansy-waist scumwads came up with to explain why their scripts are written by drunken six-year olds over the course of a weekend, in between sessions of Conker's Bad Fur Day most likely, I am going to have to start prowling the streets shooting people in the back of the head execution style!

Damn but I need to lay off the caffeine...

Seriously though, that has to be the lamest excuse for spending a mountain of money on movies with less substance than your average twinkie. 'Popcorn flick'? Yeah, it's so godawful bad you start throwing your popcorn at it for insulting your intelligence every 15 seconds!

And why the hell is this in the Toho section? Oh yeah, that's changing right now...

[SuperXAsh]

While I did like Eight Legged Freaks, for it's campiness, and still have a little fondness for ID4 (though it was in no way the epic war movie it promised to be through the previews)... I gotta agree on Godzilla '98 (Zilla), Mainly for the fact that it let me down and obviously let lotsa other G-Fans down as well. We were given false hopes and promises by this "return of Godzilla" after his death in GvsD. I thought Devlin and Emmerich could pull it off, since they seem to love city destruction (as seen in ID4), and I vainly thought that it would be "JUST LIKE GODZILLA". Fire Breath, Invincibility, Plowing Through Buildings, etc. While I will admit that it started out perfectly almost... those hopes were soon dashed as soon as the military engaged Godzilla and Matthew Broderick discovers that "Godzilla's pregnant". The rest of the film was... yeah... insulting... that sounds like a good describing word.

Don't get me started on the Baby Zillas scene. It's ridiculous that Devlin and Emmerich obviously thought they could ape Jurassic Park and that people would let that obvious fact slide. But... gotta... not... dwell on it.

The ending was the coup de' grace of the insult. The final stroke, the final nail, that would ultimately condemn this movie. Yeah... I can understand the hatred for this movie. I can understand the hatred for the directors.

And though while we finally DID get the rest of the Heisei movies released because of G.I.N.O. (:sly: nyyaaah), and Godzilla as a whole DID experience a slight renaissance because of it all and we DID get a very good cartoon series from this movie... in the end... it wasn't worth it. If Godzilla '98 HAD been a great movie (a herculean effort would have been necessary though)... it would amount to the GREATEST PAY-OFF after it was all said and done. The greatest movie going experience in a long time.



But alas... it wasn't. It never will be remembered fondly now and I don't expect myself to anytime soon. While I MAY like the creature's design and look... it's still stuck in THAT movie. While I MAY want to see a BETTER battle between Godzilla and Zilla in the upcoming GFW... I know I won't. Toho will make damn sure of that. And while I may not be as rabidly cross-eyed angry as some people still are, I still can't forget how I felt afterwards.

:kinggoji: :gamera: :kingkong:

[Tomzilla]

The significance of 'Zilla' is highly important.

It is there as a reminder of what not to do when making a Godzilla movie. I consider that a significance of important value.

The movie was entertaining, but the emotion and energy that makes a Godzilla movie worth watchable, was not there at all. The acting made me laugh -- not with it, but at it. The way the creators went about trying to change something in their own image was ridiculous; Godzilla isn't just something you can change into whatever you want, there are boundaries and certain aspects you need to keep. That is what makes Godzilla's character. Overall, I'd only watch it just to take notes in filmmaking and try to do things differently.

[Gfantheheroman]

Yep. Zilla certainly sucked. We do owe him a dept to him of some kind. But then we just take it away from him and watch him get defeated by the original in GFW. I still cant wait for that one.

[Solar_Behemoth]

I am going to have to start prowling the streets shooting people in the back of the head execution style!

OOOOO, this I gotta see! :D
Ahem, I seriously found this film to be mere entertainment, but that's probably because I have alot of trouble finding bad elements in films. I honestly could not see terrible acting in the film besides that blonde haired girl (I think the actress' name was Maria Pitillio or something). The plot was okay, it just seemed like a homage to the old "mutant" B-movies of the 1950s. Fine with me.

It definitely wasn't like a Godzilla, but simply an American style kaiju film.

[Megabyte]

Whoa, Morgath dude.... did you read my last post about Zilla being a *******ization of Godzilla, hating Devlin's cockiness and prasing Rohen? Yeah it may have appeared that I was defending the film, but I was just giving an explaination of why the film turned into crap despite the two plus years it went into. D&E make typical summer flicks, not art pieces and the fact that they went under after Zilla's failure proves even further that they were nothing more than "flavors of the month".

My other question is why are people so angry over Zilla's quick defeat in GFW? Whiether the battle was 2 mintues or 2 hours, the outcome would have been the same.

Like it or not, Zilla is here to stay and will be always be a thorn in Goji's hide. Weither you take it out or turn it, its up to you.

[Saruman]

Your opinion

No thats the opinion of GOOD film making.

That's true, but for one you don't have many of those good monster films with human drama. Not to mention you do go to that film to see the monster otherwise you wouldn't go.

That's a sugar coated answer. Yes we want to see the monsters, but everyone knows that you have to have MORE than just a monster in the film or it's pretty much pointless. I don't watch a Godzilla film just for the Kaiju. I also want to see new military vehicles, new ways for humans to overcome these beasts through science and many other reasons. If all you expect to see is a monster, well thats fine for you, but most people want to see something worth watching, and much more than just that.

I am a huge Matthew Brodrick fan, but he was absolutely horrible in this film. The only person in the film that was even halfway decent was Jean Reno and he had to be French, :cursing: .

It's one thing for a movie like Yonggary to be bad, it's a Korean film made with limited funds trying to appeal to americans. But for a movie like GINO, that cost well over $100 million to make, this was simply inexcusable, for ANY film. I'm still wondering where they spent all this money to. The actors were horrible, the CGI was some of the worst ever done, the story couldn't have cost much since it was ripped from every other Sci-Fi film in existence. So what the hell did they spend $100+ million on?

[Megabyte]

So what the hell did they spend $100+ million on?

Um... the same place most crappy movie spend their moneyz on, advertising so they can annoy the consumer into seeing the films.

Eh.. sorry, couldn't think of a smart *** or funny reply to this :confused:

[The Great MM]

I am still sorta laughing at the mess.

I liked "GODZILLA" and "EIGHT LEGGED FREAKS", but all in all, it WASN'T D&E's fault. Toho could have pulled out of the project when ever they wanted, even when D&E threatened to pull out if their design wasn't approved. Toho could have backed out then and looked for someone else, or simply do another one on their own with someone like...KANENKO, and actually give him a budget and stuff.

Other then that, Toho APROVED everything from the plot, design, etc. People may say that "but the concept picture showed Zilla with a beam", and I say "so?". A lot of weapons have been ditched in the past for films, Gigan was gonna have a beam, and in his original, have some sort of spiked mace chain.

When it comes down to the appearance of the kaiju, that is when it comes down to opinion, I for one liked it, loved the approach to make it more dinosaurian and realisistic...but could have gone with out the chin.

For the CGI, I'll leave that detail alone, cause when ever I mention my opinion on CGI of a movie, I'm always drug into some long boring debate of opinions.

The acting, well, being a B-Movie nut myself, didn't see much wrong with it, you want some bad acting, go watch "SNOWBEAST"...which is still good.

For the rip offs, big deal? The Godzilla series has had a lot of their own before, "GODZILLA VS. DESTOROYAH" comes to mind... And in a way, Hedorah could be a rip off of 1958's "THE BLOB" in some sorts...

ANYWAY, D&E followed ALL of Toho's instructions...well...most...

1. Keep Spines
2. Keep Roar
3. Keep Bipedal
4. Keep Origin (I think it was one)

There may be some more, but the only one they "cheated" out of was the keep Godzilla alive, which they managed to do...with a Baby Zilla. Everything else was left to them, from weapons and actors, and they did what was what. I know they said some harsh things about the series, but so what? My friends do to, yet there still my friends. Same with me on the matter of a certain green super hero to my friends.

Eh, I guess this all comes down on how well you can "stomach" your movies...

[kent]

Actually, I think someone said in one old forum a while back that it took a littl over $64 million to make the film. While I think that's a small and unrealistic number, someone said that was the figure.

No thats the opinion of GOOD film making.

We were disagreeing on the subject of Pyras saying it was a poor kaiju flick. I know you obviously hate it. Your taste and my taste in films differ. What you think is bad, may be good to me and others and vice versa.

[Morgoth]

The lowest, low-ball figure I've seen was $125 million, with most estimates in the $150 million range and some ugly rumours from insiders that the budget actually went quite a bit higher. $64 million may have been what D&E claimed they could bring this fiasco in for, but as we know, they lied so they could get the job.


Damn, I want to kill something so bad now. Looks like 2 hours of Halo in my near future...

[Saruman]

I am still sorta laughing at the mess.

I liked "GODZILLA" and "EIGHT LEGGED FREAKS", but all in all, it WASN'T D&E's fault. Toho could have pulled out of the project when ever they wanted, even when D&E threatened to pull out if their design wasn't approved. Toho could have backed out then and looked for someone else, or simply do another one on their own with someone like...KANENKO, and actually give him a budget and stuff.

Other then that, Toho APROVED everything from the plot, design, etc. People may say that "but the concept picture showed Zilla with a beam", and I say "so?". A lot of weapons have been ditched in the past for films, Gigan was gonna have a beam, and in his original, have some sort of spiked mace chain.

When it comes down to the appearance of the kaiju, that is when it comes down to opinion, I for one liked it, loved the approach to make it more dinosaurian and realisistic...but could have gone with out the chin.

For the CGI, I'll leave that detail alone, cause when ever I mention my opinion on CGI of a movie, I'm always drug into some long boring debate of opinions.

The acting, well, being a B-Movie nut myself, didn't see much wrong with it, you want some bad acting, go watch "SNOWBEAST"...which is still good.

For the rip offs, big deal? The Godzilla series has had a lot of their own before, "GODZILLA VS. DESTOROYAH" comes to mind... And in a way, Hedorah could be a rip off of 1958's "THE BLOB" in some sorts...

ANYWAY, D&E followed ALL of Toho's instructions...well...most...

1. Keep Spines
2. Keep Roar
3. Keep Bipedal
4. Keep Origin (I think it was one)

There may be some more, but the only one they "cheated" out of was the keep Godzilla alive, which they managed to do...with a Baby Zilla. Everything else was left to them, from weapons and actors, and they did what was what. I know they said some harsh things about the series, but so what? My friends do to, yet there still my friends. Same with me on the matter of a certain green super hero to my friends.

Eh, I guess this all comes down on how well you can "stomach" your movies...

Toho couldn't just pull out of it, they had a contract that they had to honor. Wether they like the film or not there wan't much they could do about. As long as D&E kept to their part of the contract then Toho has no choice in what they do.

As for the "rip-offs." There are things you can say were rip-offs of other films in the Toho flicks, but not the ENTIRE film. The ONLY thing in this movie that was original was GINO's design. After that everything else was taken directly from another movie.

The acting in "B" movies has nothing to do with this film. This is a BIG BUDGET HOLLYWOOD BLOCKBUSTER movie. It's not some simple cheesy little low budget film that we are talking about here. This film cost well over $100 million to make, that is not even close to be a "B" movie. It's simply a "B"ad movie, not a bad Godzilla movie, just a BAD movie period.

This could have been a made for TV Sci-Fi movie original, the quality all around was that bad.

[Saruman]

We were disagreeing on the subject of Pyras saying it was a poor kaiju flick. I know you obviously hate it. Your taste and my taste in films differ. What you think is bad, may be good to me and others and vice versa.

No you said that people only go to see these films to see the monsters and nothing else. Which as Pyras said wasn't true. You then said that was his opinion. I said "No that was the opinion of Good film making." Which is again true.

People don't go to just see the monster. If they did these movies wouldn't have any humans or plot to them. It would just be a monster walking around destroying the countryside. Yeah I want to pay $10 to go sit and watch that for 90 minutes.:sarcasm:

You have to have other things in these movies, if you don't then they would never make money and we wouldn't have the films we do. The human element is the biggest factor in these films, equal to or actually greater than the monsters themselves. Why do people like G'54 so much? It's not because of Godzilla, it's because we can relate to the people in the film and understand how they suffered so much. If there aren't any humans in that film then the film has no meaning and you never have another Goji film made.

[Darth Reaper]

Okay, here are some of my thoughts in no particular order.

I agree that GODZILLA '98 was an okay monster movie, but I didn't want an okay monster movie, I wanted GODZILLA. I wanted the unstoppable, fire-breathing force that I had grown to know and love brought to life with a hollywood big budget. What I got was a very different creature with Godzilla's name. I didn't want GODZILLA to be a disappointment. When I first saw it, I think I tried to convince myself that the movie was just fine, though not perfect. Now, I accept the fact that it was dissappointing. I think this is what makes everyone so angery. Yeah, the movie we got was okay, and yeah G98 was an interesting monster, but that's not what we wanted, we wanted Godzilla. If you promise Godzilla, you need to deliver Godzilla.

Zilla is known as a weak monster and an eternal stain on Godzilla's record. But you don't realize his importance. Toho was going to trust Sony with Godzilla's name to make a series of movies while Toho sat back and reaped royaltys. Is it any coincidence that Toho made the last Heisei film where Goji DIED a year of two before the Tristar movie was released? If Zilla's movie didn't suck, Goj wouldn't of came back for a millenium series. G2000 was an attempt to clean up Zilla's mess in Japan. If Zilla hadn't of sucked, we would of never seen GMK or the Kiryu series.- godofPH


I don't know about anyone else here, but I think I can say for myself that I'd be willing to give up The Millenium series, even GMK, if it meant that GODZILLA '98 would have been made into a true Godzilla movie. If G98 hadn't sucked, that would mean that it was in the hands of people who could make good movies and give Godzilla respect. Who knows what kinds of stories could have been told, monsters could have been created, and visual wonders could have been seen if the movie had been done right? The results could have been much better than The Millenium series if it had been handled correctly. Godzilla could have been taken to a whole new level if the movie had been made by someone who knew how to make a Godzilla film. No, I don't think what we got as a result of G98 is enough to make up for what could have been if the movie had stayed true to the spirit of Godzilla.

And, what makes all of this worse is that I fear that we'll never get the chance to see it done right. Since G98 was so expensive, and ultimately a dissappointment, they'll probably never green light another Godzilla film. We'll never get to see what an American Godzilla movie could be like in the right hands. I think I'd feel alot better about all of this if I knew that there was a chance for someone else to come in and start all over again, someone who can do it right (or at least better than D&E did it). But, I fear that's never going to happen now, and that's like pooring salt on the wound.

New York would have been screwed if he didn't get caught in those bridge wires- henry venetta

That's the thing, I wanted to see New York leveled. I wanted to see Godzilla bring the same kind of carnage to America that he brought to Japan. That's part of what he does.

Who's with me on this?

I am going to have to start prowling the streets shooting people in the back of the head execution style!- Morgoth

Now, now, Clint, don't be doing that. Shoot them in the face. That's how a real man does it. :evil laugh:

[The Great MM]

Toho couldn't just pull out of it, they had a contract that they had to honor. Wether they like the film or not there wan't much they could do about. As long as D&E kept to their part of the contract then Toho has no choice in what they do.

Like I said, D&E threatened to leave if Toho didn't approve the design, and they did approve it and everything else, it was Toho's screw up.

As for the "rip-offs." There are things you can say were rip-offs of other films in the Toho flicks, but not the ENTIRE film. The ONLY thing in this movie that was original was GINO's design. After that everything else was taken directly from another movie.

I don't know about you, but the only REAL rip offs I saw in it was "JURASSIC PARK", "BEAST FROM 20,000 PHANTOMS", and "KING KONG", other then that, the plot was new and original. While the Babies were rip offs of the raptors of Jurassic Park (wait...is that possible... RAPTORS ARE REAL), the way they were used was original. Kill them before they spread, I havn't seen a kaiju story like that before, especially with the threat of them spreading and growing, and you can't say Gyaos, sence we didn't try to stop them till it was WAY to late, other then that, it was new.

The acting in "B" movies has nothing to do with this film.

It does when you have low standards, cause IMHO, it was flawless.

his is a BIG BUDGET HOLLYWOOD BLOCKBUSTER movie. It's not some simple cheesy little low budget film that we are talking about here. This film cost well over $100 million to make, that is not even close to be a "B" movie.

Then why are you a Godzilla fan period? The Japanese ones had the same length of time, effects, etc. The acting was FAR better then any in a Goji film before, the CGI was WAY better then any from the Goji series, the SFX made the SFX from the Goji films look like fire crackers.

It's simply a "B"ad movie, not a bad Godzilla movie, just a BAD movie period.

In your opinion, I found it pretty damn good, one of the better films from 1998.

This could have been a made for TV Sci-Fi movie original, the quality all around was that bad

Again, in your opinion. BTW, I really wouldn't have mind if it was, I adore 97% of Scifi's work anyway.

[PyrasTerran]

I don't know about you, but the only REAL rip offs I saw in it was "JURASSIC PARK", "BEAST FROM 20,000 PHANTOMS", and "KING KONG", other then that, the plot was new and original. While the Babies were rip offs of the raptors of Jurassic Park (wait...is that possible... RAPTORS ARE REAL), the way they were used was original. Kill them before they spread, I havn't seen a kaiju story like that before, especially with the threat of them spreading and growing, and you can't say Gyaos, sence we didn't try to stop them till it was WAY to late, other then that, it was new.

Of course he can say Gyaos, because it was still an attempt.

Besides, how can something be new and original if it ripped from 3 previous movies??


Then why are you a Godzilla fan period? The Japanese ones had the same length of time, effects, etc. The acting was FAR better then any in a Goji film before, the CGI was WAY better then any from the Goji series, the SFX made the SFX from the Goji films look like fire crackers.

Correction: The acting is far better than the DUBBING. I do believe Japanese acting can outclass the acting of GINO.

In your opinion, I found it pretty damn good, one of the better films from 1998.


Out of curiosity, could you give me a list of sci-fi films that appeared around that time? I'd like to know what kind of competition GINO was up against.

Again, in your opinion.

It's not just his opinion.



One has to come to terms with the fact that even though they love a movie doesn't make it a technically good movie. Me, I absolutely love Alien Vs. Predator, I can't wait fo rthe DVD, but that doesn't mean I haven't come to terms with how technically crappy that movie is.

[Saruman]

Like I said, D&E threatened to leave if Toho didn't approve the design, and they did approve it and everything else, it was Toho's screw up.

The design of the monster has nothing to do with it, it's everything else in the movie that SUCKS.

I don't know about you, but the only REAL rip offs I saw in it was "JURASSIC PARK", "BEAST FROM 20,000 PHANTOMS", and "KING KONG", other then that, the plot was new and original. While the Babies were rip offs of the raptors of Jurassic Park (wait...is that possible... RAPTORS ARE REAL), the way they were used was original. Kill them before they spread, I havn't seen a kaiju story like that before, especially with the threat of them spreading and growing, and you can't say Gyaos, sence we didn't try to stop them till it was WAY to late, other then that, it was new.

It's "BEAST FROM 20,000 FATHOMS," and yes you can say Gyaos because it's the exact same thing. The difference there is that Gyaos are actual Kaiju that can take conventional weapons attacks and still keep going. GINO couldn't even break out of suspension cabels or run down a taxi.

It does when you have low standards, cause IMHO, it was flawless.

Well at least you admit that your standards are low, which is quite obvious anyway. But if you think that acting was flawless then you simply have no concept of the artform.

Then why are you a Godzilla fan period? The Japanese ones had the same length of time, effects, etc. The acting was FAR better then any in a Goji film before, the CGI was WAY better then any from the Goji series, the SFX made the SFX from the Goji films look like fire crackers.

ROFL, this is funny. You think the acting in GINO is better than that in real Godzilla films, that is quite rich.:laugh: So GINO is better than G'54, Rodan, Mothra, GvM, GTTHM, GvB, just to name a few. Sorry but it dosen't even compare to those films even slightly.

In your opinion, I found it pretty damn good, one of the better films from 1998.

Yes a film so good that it was condemned by 99.9% of the genre fans. A film that was so good that it wasn't even nominated for a single award. A film so good that Toho themselves had to revive their own series just to wipe the stain off of the characters name. A film so good that it actualy was one of the reasons that D&E broke up their partnership. Yes that is just such a magnificent film.

Again, in your opinion. BTW, I really wouldn't have mind if it was, I adore 97% of Scifi's work anyway.

Not suprising since you have already admitted that your standards are so low.

[The Great MM]

The design of the monster has nothing to do with it, it's everything else in the movie that SUCKS.

That's not what I'm I'm talking about. If Toho saw how bad the movie was going, all they needed to do is not approve the design, and the film would have been dropped.

It's "BEAST FROM 20,000 FATHOMS," and yes you can say Gyaos because it's the exact same thing. The difference there is that Gyaos are actual Kaiju that can take conventional weapons attacks and still keep going. GINO couldn't even break out of suspension cabels or run down a taxi.

No, cause we trusted the Gyaos first and hated Gamera until it was to late, we didn't stop them UNTIL they spread.

ROFL, this is funny. You think the acting in GINO is better than that in real Godzilla films, that is quite rich. So GINO is better than G'54, Rodan, Mothra, GvM, GTTHM, GvB, just to name a few. Sorry but it dosen't even compare to those films even slightly.


In acting and SFX yes, in plot and entertainment, no.

Yes a film so good that it was condemned by 99.9% of the genre fans. A film that was so good that it wasn't even nominated for a single award. A film so good that Toho themselves had to revive their own series just to wipe the stain off of the characters name. A film so good that it actualy was one of the reasons that D&E broke up their partnership. Yes that is just such a magnificent film.


I'm not 99.9% of the fandom am I? And so are a few others here.

Besides, how can something be new and original if it ripped from 3 previous movies??

Was reffering to the Baby Zilla danger.

Out of curiosity, could you give me a list of sci-fi films that appeared around that time? I'd like to know what kind of competition GINO was up against.

I have to check, but I believe "PITCH BLACK" was one...not sure though, I'll check later, may have came out in '97.

[kent]

A film that was so good that it wasn't even nominated for a single award.

It doesn't have to be nominated for an award to be considered a good or great film. Take Titanic. I'm willing to bet most of the members on this forums despise the film including yourself. Does this mean that everyone thinks the film is a magnificent film? No. I for one thought the film was just awful.
Not to mention most of these award ceremonies have politics involved.

A film so good that Toho themselves had to revive their own series just to wipe the stain off of the characters name.

Toho has no one to blame themselves since they practically approved everything for the film. Not to mention they still saw Godzilla was still a profitable name in film.

A film so good that it actualy was one of the reasons that D&E broke up their partnership.

One of the reasons, but it's not the biggest reason. And considering how much you hate D&E after this film, why would you consider this bad? Unless you have had a change of heart.

[Saruman]

That's not what I'm I'm talking about. If Toho saw how bad the movie was going, all they needed to do is not approve the design, and the film would have been dropped.

What don't you get? The design is approved before the movie has started filming. Toho had no idea how the movie would turn out at that point. And it's alot more complicated to get out of a contract than to simply not approve a monster design.

No, cause we trusted the Gyaos first and hated Gamera until it was to late, we didn't stop them UNTIL they spread.

What movies are you watching? We never trusted the Gyaos, the first notice of them was because they wiped out an entire village and ate everyone. The only reason they went after Gamera is because the saw him as the more dangerous threat than 3 small Gyaos. The humans had no idea that the Gyaos would grow like they did, once they did, they went after the Gyaos as well.

In acting and SFX yes, in plot and entertainment, no.

LOL, the plot and entertainment value of GINO is so poor it isn't even funny. Toho G films have much more plot because they actually think about it. The entertainment value is also so much better becaues they put ALOT more effort into their films than D&E put into this one.

I'm not 99.9% of the fandom am I? And so are a few others here.

Luckily no, or we would all be thinking Dragon Fighter was an 8 out of 10 rated film, when it's actually more like a 3 or 4 out of 10, and yes I do own the DVD.

[Megabyte]

GINO had to compete with the Lost in Space flick in its earlier run, as well as Armaggedon and Deep Impact later on in the summer. Plus the awesome Saving Private Ryan was out as well.

Did anyone else noticed that Ted Elliott & Terry Rossio were also credited for writing GINO? Why you may ask, is because D&E TOOK elements from DeBont's Godzilla. A gigantic monster that reproduces asexually and out manvuers missiles that takes out skyscrapers in New York? Smaller monsters that go after humans? These weren't written for Zilla or for its youth, but rather the Gyphon and the Probe Bats.

Also if you think about it, Toho HAD to take Zilla since the last two American attempts went under, they just killed off Goji and if this didn't get approaved, then any chances of an American Godzilla would be lost forever and thereby no big money oppunity for Toho...

[Studio Asperger]

Is it just me, or are some people here forgetting that movies are a collaborative effort? As far as I'm concerned, a movie's only as good as the sum of its parts - it doesn't matter how good one thing about the film may be, if everything else is bad then the movie still sucks. Monster movies are no different, trust me - I certainly don't want them just to see the monsters, I expect effort to have been put into all parts of the film, just like my expectations of every other film in existence.

Opinions are purely subjective, of course, but there's a difference between opinion and informed opinion. Just for a random example, nobody can be expected to be taken seriously if they go 'OMG GOJI ROOLZ SO GINO ROOLZ!!!111!!'. That's just rabid fanboyism - a scourge of our time.

My two cents on GINO - I hated it, not just as a Godzilla film but as a film in general. I have hated every single one of Devlin and Emmerich's blockbusters, and this only reinforced that opinion. Zilla looked dopey, for starters. I thought he looked more like Pete's Dragon than the Godzilla I remember from clips of the Toho films. Toho must REALLY have been desperate to get interest in Godzilla in the West going again to give this design the green-light - if this was the best D&E could come up with, I hate to think what their worst was.

The plot and action segments, which had potential, were let down by how they were handled, making the whole thing ludicrous and often downright laughable. Potentially fun and suspense-filled scenes were botched completely. Yes, I know I'm saying this knowing the ridiculous nature of a lot of the Godzilla movies, but let me explain. As far as I see it, Godzilla movies, in the way they're constructed, are films are let you know that they know what we know (if that makes any sense) - that movies are constructed. Thus, somehow it becomes easier to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the ride of silliness so characteristic of B-movies (not that there's no such thing as a bad B-movie). In a Hollywood blockbuster though, which expects you to take it seriously, then things like stupid, illogical elements of the plot stick out like a sore thumb. What didn't help was the blatant ripping-off of scenes from older, more established films, and how they were subsequently mishandled.

Finally, I hated the human characters. I just did not find anything interesting about them whatsoever, not helped by the atrocious acting and awful script. A monster movie where you just want the humans to die miserable deaths is always asking for trouble. No matter what anyone says, the monsters AREN'T EVERYTHING in monster movies. If the humans are all as tripe-filled as this, we have to wonder why there's any point in them surviving at all.

So, as you've no doubt guessed, I did not find any merit in GINO at all. However, the title of this thread was 'the significance of GINO', and in that respect GINO did play one critical role. It forced Toho to seriously re-evaluate things, making them realise that Godzilla is not something that should be left to talentless Hollywood hacks like D&E, prompting them to restart the series afresh.

That's my opinion, and you're free to disagree, but don't expect me to change my opinion as I don't expect you to change yours.

[Saruman]

It doesn't have to be nominated for an award to be considered a good or great film. Take Titanic. I'm willing to bet most of the members on this forums despise the film including yourself. Does this mean that everyone thinks the film is a magnificent film? No. I for one thought the film was just awful.
Not to mention most of these award ceremonies have politics involved.

True awards don't mean everything, but they are a recognition of something good about a film. No, I do not care for Titanic, but that does not mean that I am ignorant to the fact that there are some very good things about the movie. The difference is that GINO has no redeeming qualities other than a decent monster design, minus the chin of course.

Toho has no one to blame themselves since they practically approved everything for the film. Not to mention they still saw Godzilla was still a profitable name in film.

Toho didn't approve everything for this film. They asked that certain things for the character be met, which they were, after that it all falls to D&E. For some reason you think Toho was approving every last little detail of the film, which they were not.

One of the reasons, but it's not the biggest reason. And considering how much you hate D&E after this film, why would you consider this bad? Unless you have had a change of heart.

No, I didn't care for D&E before this film, so this just made that opinion even more right. None of their films were great, but they did mostly have good SPFX. Just compare a film like ID4 which isn't a great film by any means to GINO. The difference in SPFX is simply incredible, ID4's SPFX blow everything in GINO completely away, and it was made what, like 5 years before GINO.

D&E were simply looking for one thing with GINO, that being a big paycheck from Tri-Star, which they got. After that, they showed just how little they cared for the character and the films by doing such a poor job. It's amazing that anyone would ever hire either of them to make any film after GINO.

[Saruman]

Did anyone else noticed that Ted Elliott & Terry Rossio were also credited for writing GINO? Why you may ask, is because D&E TOOK elements from DeBont's Godzilla. A gigantic monster that reproduces asexually and out manvuers missiles that takes out skyscrapers in New York? Smaller monsters that go after humans? These weren't written for Zilla or for its youth, but rather the Gyphon and the Probe Bats.

LOL, not only did they rip off evry Sci-Fi film before it, but they also ripped off things from the people that were originally going to do the film. What is really sad is that when you rip-off something from another "Great" film and you totally screw it up like D&E did. Just goes to show you how bad they really are.

Also if you think about it, Toho HAD to take Zilla since the last two American attempts went under, they just killed off Goji and if this didn't get approaved, then any chances of an American Godzilla would be lost forever and thereby no big money oppunity for Toho...

That's a good point too. Toho was going to kill off Godzilla in 93 because of the American movie, which would have been out in 95. But because Tri-Star couldn't get their act together, Toho had to scramble and make the last two Heisei movies. They didn't want such a long lapse between the Japanese films and the American one.

[Studio Asperger]

No, I didn't care for D&E before this film, so this just made that opinion even more right. None of their films were great, but they did mostly have good SPFX. Just compare a film like ID4 which isn't a great film by any means to GINO. The difference in SPFX is simply incredible, ID4's SPFX blow everything in GINO completely away, and it was made what, like 5 years before GINO.

I will admit that the special effects used for the alien's attack on the cities was amazing in Independence Day. Everything else about the movie sucked though - not to mention that H.G. Welles dug all the way to the Earth's core, he was spinning so hard in his grave.

I don't feel Toho are entirely blameless in the whole GINO debacle - they must've given some indicator of approval for GINO's design, otherwise the film probably wouldn't've gone ahead - but judging from their reaction to the finished film (and the numerous swipes they've taken at the film in some of the G-films since) I'm willing to bet that they weren't even aware of how the finished film might turn out. So to say that the blame lays squarely at their feet would be highly inaccurate.

If you ask me, GINO is a classic example of what happens when you entrust an established character to directors who haven't a clue as to the character's history or their films, and thus how they should be treated with respect. Unfortunately it's a trend that's repeated in Hollywood as of late - Van Helsing and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen were nothing short of insults to classic literary and motion picture icons (bash me all you want, but my opinion stands on this one).

[Saruman]

I will admit that the special effects used for the alien's attack on the cities was amazing in Independence Day. Everything else about the movie sucked though - not to mention that H.G. Welles dug all the way to the Earth's core, he was spinning so hard in his grave.

I was mainly referring to the city destruction sequences in ID4, they were impressive. The rest is pretty much just wasted film.

I don't feel Toho are entirely blameless in the whole GINO debacle - they must've given some indicator of approval for GINO's design, otherwise the film probably wouldn't've gone ahead - but judging from their reaction to the finished film (and the numerous swipes they've taken at the film in some of the G-films since) I'm willing to bet that they weren't even aware of how the finished film might turn out. So to say that the blame lays squarely at their feet would be highly inaccurate.

Oh I agree, I'm sure that Toho did approve the design, which I don't have a problem with other than the chin. It's the rest that they didn't know much about until it was over and done with. Once filming starts, there is no need for them to bother with seeing it until it's finished.

If you ask me, GINO is a classic example of what happens when you entrust an established character to directors who haven't a clue as to the character's history or their films, and thus how they should be treated with respect. Unfortunately it's a trend that's repeated in Hollywood as of late - Van Helsing and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen were nothing short of insults to classic literary and motion picture icons (bash me all you want, but my opinion stands on this one).

I wouldn't put Van Helsing & LXG in the same class as GINO exactly. There were some good things in both of those films as well as bad, though the bad outweighs the good.

LXG I though had some great characters, Sean Connery as Quartermain was just outstanding, Peta Wilson as Mina Harker was excellent, Stuart Townsend as Dorian Grey was great. Nemo I am 50/50 on, Skinner as the Invisible Man was ok, Jekyll & Hyde could have been done better, and including Tom Sawyer was just an atrocity.

Van Helsing was a little worse. I like the concept of the film, but the execution was very lacking, and the whole Dracula's "Children" thing was just stomach churning. I liked the Werewolves, there design was nice but could have been done a little better. Dracula was ok in his true form, that didn't give me any problems as there have been so many different takes on what vampires are like. Hyde was actually pertty good and I think the best character in the film, to bad he didn't last long. Everything else was either so so or worse.

GINO I find nothing positive about, even the monster design which I don't mind, still could have been better.

[Zigra]

What don't you get? The design is approved before the movie has started filming. Toho had no idea how the movie would turn out at that point. And it's alot more complicated to get out of a contract than to simply not approve a monster design.

Actually, it is my understanding that Toho approved the script as well (and, if anybody has any official information to the contrary, feel free to correct me). This seems to fit with their way of doing things. When some other company is licensed to use Godzilla somehow, Toho feels they have to approve every little thing that is done with the character. It was true with the Dark Horse comic series, and it was also true with the animated GINO series (Tristar wanted to use other other Toho Godzilla foes in the show, but since Toho had to approve how each monster was used, Tristar decided otherwise since waiting for Toho's approval would have put them behind scheduele).

[Saruman]

Actually, it is my understanding that Toho approved the script as well (and, if anybody has any official information to the contrary, feel free to correct me). This seems to fit with their way of doing things. When some other company is licensed to use Godzilla somehow, Toho feels they have to approve every little thing that is done with the character. It was true with the Dark Horse comic series, and it was also true with the animated GINO series (Tristar wanted to use other other Toho Godzilla foes in the show, but since Toho had to approve how each monster was used, Tristar decided otherwise since waiting for Toho's approval would have put them behind scheduele).

I don't know if they approved the script, from what I have heard they didn't, and I can't see them agreeing to this script knowing how protective they are of Godzilla.

Toho wouldn't let them use any other Kaiju because they wanted to see what would happen with GINO first, from what I remember. I believe that money was also an issue for Tri-Star and they couldn't afford another monster, if they wanted to stay "under" budget, which they ended up going over anyway.

As for them being behind schedule, they were behind the entire time. They were supposed to get the film out in two years of the last Toho G film. They ended up making it 3 years, actually longer if you want to count the fact that Toho's last G film was supposed to be 93, but since Tri-Star kept screwing things, up they couldn't do that.

I believe Keith (KPA) mentioned what happened with the GINO Cartoon since he was involved with it, but I don't remember what he said about that, the same with the DH Comics.

[Saruman]

Here is two of the threads on the GINO cartoon:

http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267

http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=851

Heres a quote from the first thread by Keith (KPA):
Over the course of the series *I talked to some of the writers and heard a few things. For example the head writer had Godzilla breathe his radioactive ray in the first episode. When Devlin's office saw the script they ordered that scene be removed but the writer stood his ground and said the ray is one of Godzilla's trademarks. Devlin's office backed off and we got to use Godzilla's breath in the series.

So it was Devlin's Office that had to approve things for the cartoon, not Toho. Toho would have had to approve the use of any of their other Kaiju, but since they weren't used, they must not have had any say in the matter.

[Zigra]

I don't know if they approved the script, from what I have heard they didn't, and I can't see them agreeing to this script knowing how protective they are of Godzilla.

Hmm, I've never gotten he impression that Toho is "protective" of Godzilla. Quite the opposite. GFW should be proof of that. It's more like they'll do anything that they feel will get them more money, and often times the price is far too high for other companies to meet, and many more times Toho's idea of what will get them more money is so far off that it often backfires on them (like their deluded belief that only monsters like Ghidorah and Mothra are marketable). That's why Dark Horse didn't use any other Toho Godzilla foes. Toho wanted too much for each one, and DH couldn't afford that.

As for Tristar being able to use other monsters, supposedly Tristar had the rights to all Godzilla monsters besides Ghidorah, Mothra, and I think Rodan. All others were fair game. According to an interview in G-Fan (I don't recall which issue, though) with one of the people involved in production of "Godzilla: The Animated Series", they had planned on using several of Toho-based Godzilla foes in their series, but they had to have Toho's approval for how each monster was used. Apparently, due to a tight scheduele, Tristar didn't have time to get Toho's approval, so they just created monsters of their own instead.

[godofPH]

People don't go to just see the monster. If they did these movies wouldn't have any humans or plot to them. It would just be a monster walking around destroying the countryside. Yeah I want to pay $10 to go sit and watch that for 90 minutes.:sarcasm:


I would, but thats just me. I'm the guy who was bored to death until Goji came about in Tokyo SOS. I'm the guy who payed 10 bucks to see a monster attack citys that I don't like.

Hmm, I've never gotten he impression that Toho is "protective" of Godzilla. Quite the opposite. GFW should be proof of that. It's more like they'll do anything that they feel will get them more money, and often times the price is far too high for other companies to meet, and many more times Toho's idea of what will get them more money is so far off that it often backfires on them (like their deluded belief that only monsters like Ghidorah and Mothra are marketable). That's why Dark Horse didn't use any other Toho Godzilla foes. Toho wanted too much for each one, and DH couldn't afford that.


GFW is enough proof to show that Toho is protective of Godzilla. The Goji vs Zilla part proves this. It only lasts like ten seconds, all that happened was Zilla got smacked by Goji's tail and then Goji used his beam. The fight could of lasted longer, have Goji kick the crap out of Zilla before the giant iguana dies. Godzilla kicks the crap out of everything in GFW except KG with NO injurys or decent hits from those opponents. Toho has to make sure that the exact way they want it.

Another way that Toho is protective of Goji is how rare Godzilla VHS/DVDs are. I've only seen a few in the many electronics stores I've been too.

Lastly is how protective Toho is with Goji legalwise. Toho sues the hell out of anyone who uses Goji without their permission. And Goji barely ever is caught up in promtions of sorts, like advertising and crap for other companies. Even selfish Nintendo loaned out licenses for Burger King to make nintendo chars for kids meals. Now I'm not saying there should be a Goji Happy Meal, but some cooperation with other companies for advertising could help.

[Megabyte]

Actually Toho is VERY protective of Godzilla and that is why its actually surprising how GINO turned out. If anyone reads any interview with any one involved with a G-project outside Japan, they mention that Toho gives them a "bible" on how Godzilla should be protrayed. If I remember some of the "commandments" correctly some of them are: Godzilla must be a result of radioactivity or must have something to do with it, Godzilla must have his trademark dorsal fins, Godzilla must have his atomic breath, Godzilla can not crush or eat people, Godzilla must have four fingers and four toes... it goes on. Take a look with the interview with Ricardo Delgado in G-fan #33 or with some interviews with Hanna Barbara and there is mention of the "bible" in there.

[godofPH]

^ Didn't know about that, but it makes perfect sense. But no eating or crushing people? Godzillasaurus was a carnosaur was he not? Thats taking the dinosaur-ness out of Goji. Zilla acted like a better giant dinosaur than Godzilla does.

[Megabyte]

^ There just can't be any scenes of Goji personaly inflicting volence upon people nor eating them. A bit strange but that was one of the laws. Although I don't recall Godzillasaurus eating anyone and Baby does eat a rose...

[godofPH]

^ There just can't be any scenes of Goji personaly inflicting volence upon people nor eating them. A bit strange but that was one of the laws. Although I don't recall Godzillasaurus eating anyone and Baby does eat a rose...

Godzillasaurus killed some american soldiers in GvsKG. Then artillery from a bot gunned the godzillasaurus.

[Megabyte]

^ He killed them, but didn't eat them and because of Baby's eating habits it looks like Gsaurus could have been a herbavore. Whoa, went a little off topic, but personally seeing a gigantic foot come down and then have blood splatter would be a bit nasty (but a bit cool at the same time) so it makes some sense why Toho would not allow these sort of things happen.

If anyone has all the rules from Toho's "bible", could you post it? It would be interesting to see all of their rules for protraying Godzilla.

[Zigra]

GFW is enough proof to show that Toho is protective of Godzilla. The Goji vs Zilla part proves this. It only lasts like ten seconds, all that happened was Zilla got smacked by Goji's tail and then Goji used his beam. The fight could of lasted longer, have Goji kick the crap out of Zilla before the giant iguana dies. Godzilla kicks the crap out of everything in GFW except KG with NO injurys or decent hits from those opponents. Toho has to make sure that the exact way they want it.

Oh yes, a brief scene of Godzilla kicking the **** out of GINO really prooves a lot:sarcasm: We won't talk about how the movie was deliberately made as a joke, or how the movie sells the genre out for the sake of appealing to a bunch of brain-dead teens who don't know the meaning of such things as "story", "acting", "plot" or good music.

BTW, people, don't take that as an insult to anybody in particular around here.

Another way that Toho is protective of Goji is how rare Godzilla VHS/DVDs are. I've only seen a few in the many electronics stores I've been too.

Again, if you paid attention, that is only because Toho asks for too great of a price for releasing those items.

Lastly is how protective Toho is with Goji legalwise. Toho sues the hell out of anyone who uses Goji without their permission. And Goji barely ever is caught up in promtions of sorts, like advertising and crap for other companies. Even selfish Nintendo loaned out licenses for Burger King to make nintendo chars for kids meals. Now I'm not saying there should be a Goji Happy Meal, but some cooperation with other companies for advertising could help.

Again, this is a sign of Toho's greed, not protectiveness. They don't want anybody else making money off of their character unless they can make money off of it too. It's understandable, but not a sign of protectiveness of the character's image.

[Studio Asperger]

Again, this is a sign of Toho's greed, not protectiveness. They don't want anybody else making money off of their character unless they can make money off of it too. It's understandable, but not a sign of protectiveness of the character's image.

Hmm, that's strange. Don't the film companies take a cut from the profits of merchandising and what-have-you anyway? I always thought that was one way how the studio makes up most of the money it lost making the film - the revenue from merchandising plus box-office sales repays the budget that was spent on the film. To persuade people to go to see the film and buy the merchandising tie-in crap, studios are willing to pay for huge advertising campaigns and merchandising deals and what-have-you. Studios try to make blockbusters out to be events, the relentless amount of advertising and merchandise you see is evidence of that.

I remember distinctly that, when GINO came to the UK, there was GINO merchandising given away in fast-food kid's meals - I think it was Burger King that did that. Remember the relentless advertising that sprung up EVERYWHERE on GINO's release, on TV, in the press, in the High Street? The studio shilled the film everywhere it could.

Now unless somebody can tell me otherwise, I never hear of this sort of thing going on when a new Toho Goji film is released. This brings to mind a couple of posibilities;

1. That Toho don't have the budgets for that kind of crazy advertising or merchandising,

2. If they did, they feel it's more trouble than it's worth to go overboard with advertising and merchandise.

Never forget, every film company - Toho or otherwise - wants to make money, so Toho can't be the only greedy studio in this world. Toho can't just be greedy if they don't spend much on advertising, considering Hollywood studios pay horrendous amounts in their advertising and merchandising deals, knowing that sales from merchandise is a significant contributor to their profits.

Movies are officially a business, first and foremost, and all businesses are out for the contents of your wallet in the end. Whether or not studios actually make movies that justify the relentless advertising and tie-in crap is another matter.

[godofPH]

1. That Toho don't have the budgets for that kind of crazy advertising or merchandising,

I'm pretty sure they have the moolah to do that, its just that Kaneko just pumps out low budget movies in quick attempts for cash from the die-hard Godzilla fans. He's just preying off of our love for the King of the monsters. Thats why we see Mothra and KG and MG in movies so much more than the rest.

And back to the Godzillasaurus/Baby debate, Look at Godzillasaurus's teeth and Godzilla's teeth, the teeth of a carnivore. They are shaped like carnosaurs. They have the skull design of carnivores. Baby eating a rose was just somehing that happened.

I have to admit, I wanted more destruction in Zilla 98. I've seen what Emmerich is capable of (you see those tornados destroying LA in TDAT?). I liked the characters excpet that gal who played Audrey. Nick was a good character, great for the story to be centered around with the circumstances. Phillipe was a good character also. But I'm ok with the annoying NYers, why? Cuz its in NYC, you expect New Yorkers in New York city.

And why is evry1 complaining about Zilla's chin?

[Solar_Behemoth]

And why is evry1 complaining about Zilla's chin?

Because "it makes him look like Jay Leno." :sarcasm:
The only reason I ever hear from people, that is.

[MirrenDono]

You got something against Jay Leno? -_-

:laugh:

[PyrasTerran]

Because it's strange and makes GINO's jaws look stronger than they actually are.

[Saruman]

Again, this is a sign of Toho's greed, not protectiveness. They don't want anybody else making money off of their character unless they can make money off of it too. It's understandable, but not a sign of protectiveness of the character's image.

It is protectiveness. Just look at some of the things that Toho has done, the most prominent one that comes to mind is, I believe the guy was from Italy, the person that made a whole bunch of Godzilla computer icons. He posted them and sent them out to people and never asked anything for them in return. What did Toho do, they sent him a letter saying that if he continued to send out the icons to people they would sue him. Yeah, that has alot to do with money doesn't it. Some fan who went to the trouble of making something to share with other fans that didn't cost Toho or the other fans anything, gets told to stop sending them to people or he would be sued. The guy had even posted the letter they sent him on his website when he took the icons down. So are you going to tell me that, that entire thing was about money? Because it was nothing of the sort. Toho was just being overly protective of their character and in doing so did something completely stupid.

Toho is way protective of their trademark characters, and that is fine, I can understand that. But when you go to those lengths to stop a fan from doing something like that for the fandom, that is just, it's beyond protective, it's just sickening.

[Saruman]

And why is evry1 complaining about Zilla's chin?

Well as already pointed out, it makes him look like Jay Leno. But other than that, Iguanas don't have chins like that, and it just looks really wrong for anything to have a chin that huge.

[PyrasTerran]

There are some character designs for creatures that have much larger chins/bottom jaws than upper jaws, and the chin helps in the design(one creature that comes to mind for me are the basic Metal Heads of the Jak series). However, it just doesn't seem to work well for GINO.