Gamera (Heisei) vs Hedorah

[Saruman]

Gamera (Heisei) vs Hedorah.

The battle takes place in a heavily polluted industrial area on the banks of a heavily polluted river.

Both Kaiju are 60 meters.

Who wins?

[PyrasTerran]

Hm...

If there are combustible gases in the air, wouldn't Gamera's plasma shot completely eviscerate Hedorah and the industrial plants around?

[Figment]

Lots of Gas and pollutants in the air + Gamera's plasma fireballs= A recreation of the ending to Gamera 3 (Gamera surrounded in flames marching on to fight his next set of foes)
Then again, Hedorah CAN draw strength from this crap in the air but Gamera would probably be either smart enough to use the flaming balls of death right away or just go with another glorious battle involving self mutilation and things exploding in massive fiery balls of doom.

[Darth Reaper]

Right now, I'd have to say Gamera. I think Gamera's fire balls will do conciderable damage to Hedorah. And, if all else fails, there's always The Mana Beam. I don't think Hedorah could survive that.

[Saruman]

Hm...

If there are combustible gases in the air, wouldn't Gamera's plasma shot completely eviscerate Hedorah and the industrial plants around?

Since when is pollution combustible? If that was the case you wouldn't have any industrial zones in cities because one fire would blow up the whole city. Hell a jet flying into an airport could sent an entire city up in a ball of fire. Doesn't quite work like that.

And don't forget that there is also a polluted river present, what happens to Hedorah in water.

[MirrenDono]

^ Well it's a good thing you put that in there, or Hedorah would be pwned...

But for now, it's hard to say. I wanna just go with Gammy because of the fireball barrage startoff, I don't know if Hedorah could manage to get to the river through that, but if that doesn't work...I'd guess to say he might eventually pull out the Mana Beam, but for now I cannot make a surefire decision.

[PyrasTerran]

Since when is pollution combustible? If that was the case you wouldn't have any industrial zones in cities because one fire would blow up the whole city. Hell a jet flying into an airport could sent an entire city up in a ball of fire. Doesn't quite work like that.

I didn't say pollution is combustible, I'm just asking if any combustible gases are present.

Either way though, pollution is flammable. A shot or two of the plasma balls might light Hedorah ablaze, unless he's flame-retardant.

[Gorjirus]

Well, the thing to remember is that Heodrah is all minerals, which for the most part, aren't flammbable. Godzilla (who's beam starts fires) didn't cause Hedorah to catch on fire. The eletro whatevers are what caused Hedorah to dry out. Heat doesn't do anything. So, only the force of Gamera's plasma balls will do damage, but that won't wins him a fight. Plus, with the endless pollution, Hedorah can almost always get stronger in the fight, as if he can knock Gamera down, he will be able to absorb some pollution, as when Gamera goes down, there is a small time period when he tries to get up. Unless Gamera uses the Mana Beam, Hedorah will be able to defeat Gamera.

[Cole Deschain]

If the Mana Beam is an option, Gamera may well have enough time to use it... Just let Hedorah suck on a factory smokestack and blow them both away. Against a foe as unbelieveably toxic as Hedorah, he WOULD use it, given the chance.

[Gorjirus]

But, while a foe is in fighting condition, Hedorah NEVER stops to "eat". If you recall the movie, Hedorah is sucking a smokestack and he hears Godzilla roar. Now, instead of just opening his eyes and continues to "eat", he stops, then goes to Godzilla. There is another instance as well, but I cannot recall. But, if an opponent is around and in FIGHTING condition, than that is his concentration. Gamera might not have that oppurtunity. The opponent always has Hedorah's attention. Legion's attention changed, and that was when Gamera used the beam. I just don't think Gamera will ahve time. Plus, if we take what was said in the Gamera movies and think logically, this will be a hinderance to Gamera because the battlefield has an extreme lack of mana. This will instantly be a hinderance to Gamera.

[RexRaptor]

Actually, the River will be null and viod, only makeing Hedorah larger. Even if its not there, you gotta dry out Hedorah from the inside...Remember?

[MirrenDono]

The Mana beam blows everything away, and since Hedorah's hide is as weak as tissue, I say he wouldn't last two seconds against it

Plus Hedorah is extremley overrated without a source or water around him, ask MM, he'll give you the entire list...

[Saruman]

Ummm, without a source of water he beat Godzilla fairly easy. It was only the Electrodes that the humans set up that made it so Godzilla could beat him. Without those Godzilla would have gotten killed.

[kent]

Either way though, pollution is flammable. A shot or two of the plasma balls might light Hedorah ablaze, unless he's flame-retardant.


Pollution is not flammable. At least emmisions which is what Hedorah feeds off of. Pollution in the air is mostly made up of Carbon dioxide along with some carbon monoxide. Both of these are not flammable. If it were true, cities like LA and Chicago would have been long gone by now because a person wanting to light their cigarette would blow the whole city sky high. Not to mention Hedorah is also NOT flammable. If he were, he would have been set ablaze during his first encounter with Godzilla; also when those hippies were throwing their torches at him.
For me, I have to go with Hedorah (if you wanna know why, just check out the Hedorah Vs. GMG Godzilla thread). I mean, this kaiju is virtually invincible. There are only a few kaiju that I can think that may even stand a chance of defeating him. Gamera does have the Mana beam yes, but I don't think he's going to get a good opportunity to use it.
And I agree with Saruman. Hedorah would more than likely have killed Godzilla. Hedorah is not overrated, it's the fact that many people know he is a dangerous kaiju. Many kaiju do not have the capabilities to destroy Hedorah. Let alone go toe to toe with him for very long.

[PyrasTerran]

So, why again don't Gamera's plasma balls stand a chance? We've seen what one ball is capable of doing on its own..

[The Great MM]

So, why again don't Gamera's plasma balls stand a chance? We've seen what one ball is capable of doing on its own..

They will be, probably not burning, but blowing Hedorah to pieces. Theres water near by meaning Hedorah will be able to reform, question is...can he reform if the brain is destroyed....

THAT is the deciding factor of this fight. Gamera's fire balls WILL be blowing Hedorah to pieces, no doubt, but can Hedorah reform if the brain is destroyed, and HOW long will it take Hedorah to reform...

These are questions left by the movie not explained...there for...

MM Abstains.

[Gorjirus]

Do you not realize how strong Hedorah really is? After watching G vs H, I am now even more certain that Gamera is most likely screwed. Let's look at what Hedorah can do:

1: His most powerful attack, the eye laser. And, with all the pollution around, it makes this attack even more powerful. Not only doen the beam itself corrose what it touches, its use even makes the AIR into an offensive attack. The smoke caused from the laser is poisonous. Also, it is highly explosive. Hedorah fired it, and it hit dirt, and it looked like a few cars exploded. The smoke from it caused Godzilla visible pain, as he grabs at his throat before falling to the ground. If it stikes the pollution, while not necessarily flammable, wha the beam hits explodes and I sense that would mean alot of smoke, and that would fell Gamera. What the beam hits, as well, instantly corrodes flesh down to bone.

2: The mud. Another powerful attack. Not only can it be precisely aimed (as Hedorah hit one small tourch holder with a shot), it damage is lasting. Hedorah hit Godzilla in the face easrly in the movie. His face carried that damage the entire movie, not able to regenerate the wound. If Hedorah hits the larger Gamera with the mud, in say the face, that would leave Gamera blind for the fight.

With those two attacks alone, Hedorah can beat Gamera. Also, who would the plasma balls just "blow Hedorah to pieces"? Just because he is sludge doesn't mean he can't take physical attacks without being punctured. If that was true, than the time Godzilla was just slamming Hedorah against the ground, he would have become one big long splat. Godzilla's p[ierced him so easy because it was one direct point. There's a difference from hit with a basketball and a knife.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Gorjirus
What the beam hits, as well, instantly corrodes flesh down to bone.

And that's why is burned Goji's chest the first time it hit?


2: The mud. Another powerful attack. Not only can it be precisely aimed (as Hedorah hit one small tourch holder with a shot), it damage is lasting. Hedorah hit Godzilla in the face easrly in the movie. His face carried that damage the entire movie, not able to regenerate the wound. If Hedorah hits the larger Gamera with the mud, in say the face, that would leave Gamera blind for the fight.

Gammy has regeneration, it's very possible that over the course of time it could heal up, kinda like what happened with Goji. Further into the battle, it's healed up about 70-80%

Also, are you seriously going to sit here and say that sludge balls that are no bigger than Gammy's hand are gonna take him down, while literally goring him through his chest and back couldn't kill him?

[Gorjirus]

And that's why is burned Goji's chest the first time it hit?

True, but bone is visible when it hits his hand.

Gammy has regeneration, it's very possible that over the course of time it could heal up, kinda like what happened with Goji. Further into the battle, it's healed up about 70-80%


Yes, but it is SLOW regeneration. I doubt that it would do him any good in this fight. Godzilla's eye was injured the entire movie.

Also, are you seriously going to sit here and say that sludge balls that are no bigger than Gammy's hand are gonna take him down, while literally goring him through his chest and back couldn't kill him?


I didn't say the balls themselves could beat Gamera, but the balls used with the laser easily could. Taking someone down and a kill are two different things. A KO is all that is needed for a win. Hedorah can do that, if not from damage, than from that combined with affixiation (sp).

[The Great MM]

True, but bone is visible when it hits his hand.

I don't buy it, true it LOOKED like bone, but do we know it is? Ghidorah's bolts look like lightning, but we know they are not. The same can be said for this.

IF it burned the hand to the bone, the hand would fall a part, no question, no ifs ands or buts. The hand would have crumbled every time he punched Hedorah, no doubt. For all we know, the layers under his skin may be a lighter grey, and it IS pausible.

I didn't say the balls themselves could beat Gamera, but the balls used with the laser easily could. Taking someone down and a kill are two different things. A KO is all that is needed for a win. Hedorah can do that, if not from damage, than from that combined with affixiation (sp).

Your telling me the crimson beam, which had little effect besides burning is gonna hurt Gamera who faced Iris' sonic beams, and only lost SOME blood, and wasn't even bleeding when hit in the hand by Gyaos' beam?

Godzilla's eye was injured the entire movie.

Sure as hell didn't look it to me, hell, we even get a clear image of his head when facing flying form. The only time the sludge actually caused ANY damage besides smoking was at the end, and even then did minimal damage. If ANY creature gets sludge in their eye, they will close it until they are able to get it out.

You also gotta remember, Hedorah is a moron. He has NO battle tactics at all, every attack he does, he does at the wrong moment. And being a kaiju who has a thing where he could destroy the world if the human race hasn't grown any smarter sence 1971, Gamera is gonna pull out the mana ray, you can say bye bye to Hedorah then, every piece.

My vote goes to Gamera now after I thought of it.

[Doc Ock]

Question:Hedorah is weak against extreme heat right? Couldn't Gamera power up his jets and fly into the atmosphere and come back down. Anything falling from the atmosphere at a great speed and woth a great weight begins to burn up. So couldn't this be Gammy's one ray of hope? Sure he might kill himself in the process, but I think this strategy might work.

[PyrasTerran]

With those two attacks alone, Hedorah can beat Gamera. Also, who would the plasma balls just "blow Hedorah to pieces"? Just because he is sludge doesn't mean he can't take physical attacks without being punctured. If that was true, than the time Godzilla was just slamming Hedorah against the ground, he would have become one big long splat. Godzilla's p[ierced him so easy because it was one direct point. There's a difference from hit with a basketball and a knife.

Except that this 'basketball' has the explosive force of a C4 to whatever it touches. Gamera's plasma ball can't compare to Goji's physical strikes at all.

[Gorjirus]

I don't buy it, true it LOOKED like bone, but do we know it is? Ghidorah's bolts look like lightning, but we know they are not. The same can be said for this.

For all we know, the layers under his skin may be a lighter grey, and it IS pausible.


Technically, that is plausible. But, there is a difference in what a beam looks like and what a physically description of a physical object it different.

IF it burned the hand to the bone, the hand would fall a part, no question, no ifs ands or buts. The hand would have crumbled every time he punched Hedorah, no doubt.

Why would the hand burn off if it was burnt to the bone? Perhaps Godzilla has a different bone structure than we understand. Besides, if I get a redhot caol, and grab it and don't let go, is my hand going to fall apart? You can be burned to the bone (or have flesh stripped to the bone, and it won't necisarilly fall apart.

Your telling me the crimson beam, which had little effect besides burning is gonna hurt Gamera who faced Iris' sonic beams, and only lost SOME blood, and wasn't even bleeding when hit in the hand by Gyaos' beam

Are you telling me you just ignored all the post I had made previously? It DOES MORE than just burn. The very smoke is produces when it touches ANYTHING is POISONOUS. Multiple times it causes Godzilla to grab at his neck and collapse. That is why I have said the sord "affixiation". And, they are in a highly pollluted area. That means even more smoke will be produces, creating a wide spread cloud that acts offensively.

Also, have you heard the theory that the reason Gamera held up so well agaisnt the Sonic Cutter is because that is what he was BUILT to do.

Sure as hell didn't look it to me, hell, we even get a clear image of his head when facing flying form. The only time the sludge actually caused ANY damage besides smoking was at the end, and even then did minimal damage. If ANY creature gets sludge in their eye, they will close it until they are able to get it out.


Hm, it looked to me like that half of his face was crusted over for the rest of the movie after it was hit. And burning is what it does. It's acidic, like Biollante's Sap. Plus, minimal damage? When Godzilla was hit, he would try to get the stuf off becuase it was eating away at him. And it wasn't just it being closed. He COULDN'T open it. That half of his face was crusted over, damaged. If memory serves, he went into water after he was hit, so you can't say he just didn't have a chance to clean it off.

You also gotta remember, Hedorah is a moron. He has NO battle tactics at all, every attack he does, he does at the wrong moment.

No battle tactics? Did I just hallucinate the part where he knocked Godzilla over, laid on him, went to flying form, then flew to a crevass than frop him in it so he could fill it with sludge? I must have, because that seems like a sound tactic to me.

Gamera is gonna pull out the mana ray, you can say bye bye to Hedorah then, every piece.


Gamera doesn't just pull out the Mana Beam like it is a pistol you know. That is his LAST RESORT attack. That is why he used it on Legion becuase he tried everything else he could think off. That is why he didn't just use it straight off the second time they met. He will do through the entire process with Hedorah, then use it, and Hedorah won't ignore him like Legion did. But, yes, if he does use it, he would win. But I don't think he would get the chance.

Question:Hedorah is weak against extreme heat right?

No, just from drying out, which seems to be only capable of happening with those electrodes.

Except that this 'basketball' has the explosive force of a C4 to whatever it touches. Gamera's plasma ball can't compare to Goji's physical strikes at all.


True, but I still don't see them just blowing Hedorah to bits either. Besides, couldn't Hedorah's documented "shield" (http://www.tohokingdom.com/web_pages/articles/analysis_01.htm) perhaps help someway against the plasma balls?

[The Great MM]

Great...another Hedorah debate :laugh: :p

Why would the hand burn off if it was burnt to the bone? Perhaps Godzilla has a different bone structure than we understand. Besides, if I get a redhot caol, and grab it and don't let go, is my hand going to fall apart? You can be burned to the bone (or have flesh stripped to the bone, and it won't necisarilly fall apart.

I never seen Godzilla's bones before, and what happens if he did, same reason we assume GMK can't hold off a black hole, he never tries or demonstrated. The hand was even thick, just like his normal hand. It was the EXACT same shape as his hands, not bone, just a greyish color, like I said, skin.

Are you telling me you just ignored all the post I had made previously? It DOES MORE than just burn. The very smoke is produces when it touches ANYTHING is POISONOUS. Multiple times it causes Godzilla to grab at his neck and collapse.

That's it, it produced smoke. THAT'S IT. Gamera has little to worry about smoke, he MIGHT not even to breeth, for as we seen in GOTU, Gamera and Gyaos went above the atmosphere. Proving Gamera is just about non acceptible to gas attacks, rending Hedorah's mist and "smoke" pointless. And leaving the beam useless.

Also, have you heard the theory that the reason Gamera held up so well agaisnt the Sonic Cutter is because that is what he was BUILT to do.

Doesn't change anything, his shell/skin would have to be super thick to withstand the sonic beams.

Hm, it looked to me like that half of his face was crusted over for the rest of the movie after it was hit. And burning is what it does. It's acidic, like Biollante's Sap. Plus, minimal damage? When Godzilla was hit, he would try to get the stuf off becuase it was eating away at him. And it wasn't just it being closed. He COULDN'T open it. That half of his face was crusted over, damaged. If memory serves, he went into water after he was hit, so you can't say he just didn't have a chance to clean it off.

Will have to go recheck later.

No battle tactics? Did I just hallucinate the part where he knocked Godzilla over, laid on him, went to flying form, then flew to a crevass than frop him in it so he could fill it with sludge? I must have, because that seems like a sound tactic to me.

Yea, and that was the ONLY tactic he ever used. Why he never did it again is beyond me, so like I said, he's a moron. Even moron's have tend to have a rational thought once or twice.

Gamera doesn't just pull out the Mana Beam like it is a pistol you know. That is his LAST RESORT attack. That is why he used it on Legion becuase he tried everything else he could think off. That is why he didn't just use it straight off the second time they met. He will do through the entire process with Hedorah, then use it, and Hedorah won't ignore him like Legion did. But, yes, if he does use it, he would win. But I don't think he would get the chance.

If Gamera's attacks fail like you say, what do you think he will pull out? Hedorah? Move? LOL, Hedorah just stood there and tried to shoot some globs of sludge on Goji when in combat, or just run forward. Hedorah won't know what Gamera is doing, he's gonna either...

1. Fire The Beam
2. Come Forward
3. Use Sludge

He never changed to flying form in combat until Godzilla was down, Gamera won't be down when charging, so Hedorah will either come forward or use the sludge bombs or beam...and then he can say bye bye.

True, but I still don't see them just blowing Hedorah to bits either. Besides, couldn't Hedorah's documented "shield" (http://www.tohokingdom.com/web_page...analysis_01.htm (http://www.tohokingdom.com/web_pages/articles/analysis_01.htm)) perhaps help someway against the plasma balls?

May, but it doesn't block force, as we seen and were told. Gamera's fire balls have A LOT of force.

[Gorjirus]

I never seen Godzilla's bones before, and what happens if he did, same reason we assume GMK can't hold off a black hole, he never tries or demonstrated. The hand was even thick, just like his normal hand. It was the EXACT same shape as his hands, not bone, just a greyish color, like I said, skin.


Still possible, but it could just as easily go in both directions.

That's it, it produced smoke. THAT'S IT. Gamera has little to worry about smoke, he MIGHT not even to breeth, for as we seen in GOTU, Gamera and Gyaos went above the atmosphere. Proving Gamera is just about non acceptible to gas attacks, rending Hedorah's mist and "smoke" pointless. And leaving the beam useless.


But we know he DOES breath, or at least has a set of lungs. The mist attacks the skin, is doesn't matter if you breath it in or not. If you are covered in sulfiric acid, it is going to burn whether you breath it or not. The beam still burns and has acidic properties. Plus, even you and I can survive in a vacum for an amount of time before we die.

Doesn't change anything, his shell/skin would have to be super thick to withstand the sonic beams.


But IT ISN'T. we have seen how think his shell is. Watch G2, you get a nice cross section of Gamera's shell. It is a thin piece of shell surrounding flesh. And we see the thickness of the skin in G3. It doesn't matter how think or think something is if that is what you are genetically designed to take and not be hurt by. REmember, the "Atlantians" or whoever genetically created Gamera from scratch to fight the Gyaos, thus, he is protected abnormally form their attacks. Thus, it doesn't matter how thick his skin is. If it is skin, it will protect.

Yea, and that was the ONLY tactic he ever used. Why he never did it again is beyond me, so like I said, he's a moron. Even moron's have tend to have a rational thought once or twice.


Why is he a moron? Remember, he didn't NEED to use it again. He used it, then went on his way. It was only because the humans managed to catch and hold his attention thgat Godzilla caught back up with him. AFter that, he didn't ahve a CHANCE TO. Godzilla used the electrodes, weakening Hedorah, who fled and Godzilla caught him, brought him back and KILLED him. When was he going to do use that tactic again? He shows tactic (which you would know if you read the article) by shooting the ground with his laser and thus creating a good sized cloud of poisonous gas which took Godzilla down with out even having to waste that much energy. Taht is a tactic.

If Gamera's attacks fail like you say, what do you think he will pull out? Hedorah? Move? LOL, Hedorah just stood there and tried to shoot some globs of sludge on Goji when in combat, or just run forward. Hedorah won't know what Gamera is doing, he's gonna either...

1. Fire The Beam
2. Come Forward
3. Use Sludge

He never changed to flying form in combat until Godzilla was down, Gamera won't be down when charging, so Hedorah will either come forward or use the sludge bombs or beam...and then he can say bye bye.


*Shakes Head*

Did you see how much damage he took in G2 before he used the Mana Beam? Do you see how LONG it wook for him to use up all of his options? Taht will be ample enough time for Hedorah to attack Gamera and do damage.

Oh, and Hedorah move? YES! Did you not see the movie, or have you forgotton that Hedorah is one of the best jumpers in the kaiju world? In one scene, he just jumps right over Godzilla, raining down more of the acidic mud. Hedorah does move. He just stands there and shoots at Godzilla because that is all he needs to do. And when he needs to move around, he does. He jumps alot in the movie.

And if Gamera is charging, do you think he will be able to move? It is like the argument I use in the Enterprise vs the Death Star fights, the Enterprise ONLY needs to be one unit of space away from the edge of the beam to not take damge. So, if Hedorah just moves out of in front of Gamera, the Mana Beam is just totally going to miss. Hedorah could just leap over Gamera, attacking him, then landing and attacking him somemore while the beam fires. We see how much it pushed Gamera back, he won't be able to move while firing the beam. Plus, I don't think Gamera's chest in invulnerable while he is charging.

[PyrasTerran]

True, but I still don't see them just blowing Hedorah to bits either. Besides, couldn't Hedorah's documented "shield" (http://www.tohokingdom.com/web_page...analysis_01.htm) perhaps help someway against the plasma balls?

There is no proof that Hedorah is resistant to fire, I've seen after reading that wonderful analysis. Also, Hedorah's eyes prove to be quite delicate... what would happen if Gamera shot a plasma ball to the face?

[kent]

There is no proof that Hedorah is resistant to fire,
Sure there is. His first encounter with Godzilla when he practically took a point-blank shot from him. Also the torches that those young kids threw at him. If he weren't resistant, he would have gone up during his first meeting with Godzilla or during the final battle when the kids threw the torches at him.
His physical makeup is dominated by a carbonized crystal as well. Carbon does not burn as it is a property of most material after burning.

[MirrenDono]

^ Goji's beam is not techincally fire. It's radioactive heat in the form of a beam. They have major differences

Plus, just because he didn't get set on fire doesn't make him resistent. Fires that small will only burn you, unless your extremely flammable. Hedorah isn't, but he's not completely heat resisitant. Plus, Gammy's fireballs are more explosive than burning

[Gorjirus]

Goji's beam is not techincally fire. It's radioactive heat in the form of a beam. They have major differences

Yes, but think about it for a moment. What is fire? Doesn't it have any chemical properties? Is it, in it self, physical? No, it is a type visible heat. Now, you just said Godzilla's beam is radioactive HEAT. So, why would plain ole fire (seeable heated air) hurt Hedorah when Godzilla's more powerful, hotter, radioactive HEAT that is in the form of a beam DIDN'T?

Also, Hedorah's eyes prove to be quite delicate... what would happen if Gamera shot a plasma ball to the face?


Well, remember that his eye was stabbed. But, if it hit his face, would he take damage? Yes. But would it incatacipate him, maybe. But I could ask the same of Gamera, what if he was hit in the face with the laser and mud? Wouldn't he be blinded?

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by Gorjirus
Yes, but think about it for a moment. What is fire? Doesn't it have any chemical properties? Is it, in it self, physical? No, it is a type visible heat. Now, you just said Godzilla's beam is radioactive HEAT. So, why would plain ole fire (seeable heated air) hurt Hedorah when Godzilla's more powerful, hotter, radioactive HEAT that is in the form of a beam DIDN'T?

It wasn't an argument against Hedorah, I was simply correcting kent

I understand what you mean, it's obvious that you need extreme heat to dry Hedorah out. Though that's not a problem for Gammy's fireballs, because as I said, they focus on an exploding power

[Gorjirus]

But it isn't heat itself that dries Hedorah out. In fact, it was something that had NO HEAT that dried Hedorha out, it was the electrodes. If it was extreme heat, it would have had some affect on godzilla, or at least the ground in between the electrodes. It was just the electricity, or whatever those bolts were that leapt out that managed to dry Hedorah out. Though, I am sure that EXTREME heat would have some sort of drying affect.

[PyrasTerran]

Also the torches that those young kids threw at him.

Oh, I forgot, if you throw a lit match at someone they combust :O

You can't determine whether something can be caught on fire or not by such a tiny ammount of flame.

es, but think about it for a moment. What is fire? Doesn't it have any chemical properties? Is it, in it self, physical? No, it is a type visible heat. Now, you just said Godzilla's beam is radioactive HEAT. So, why would plain ole fire (seeable heated air) hurt Hedorah when Godzilla's more powerful, hotter, radioactive HEAT that is in the form of a beam DIDN'T?

It's much more than visible heat, Gorjirus. A glowing-hot frying pan will only burn whatever it touches and nothing more. Fire actually eats at biodegradeable stuff and and continues to eat away, crawling upwards to whatever it can catch onto.

Well, remember that his eye was stabbed. But, if it hit his face, would he take damage? Yes. But would it incatacipate him, maybe. But I could ask the same of Gamera, what if he was hit in the face with the laser and mud? Wouldn't he be blinded?

Yes it would. However, who is a faster attacker? I believe Gamera is.

But it isn't heat itself that dries Hedorah out. In fact, it was something that had NO HEAT that dried Hedorha out, it was the electrodes. If it was extreme heat, it would have had some affect on godzilla, or at least the ground in between the electrodes. It was just the electricity, or whatever those bolts were that leapt out that managed to dry Hedorah out. Though, I am sure that EXTREME heat would have some sort of drying affect.

Electrodes shoot electricity, that DO have heat, it just doesn't radiate heat waves. But keep this in mind; Gamera can light the entire arena on fire, leaving him with plenty of flames to heal from and Hedorah getting drier and drier until he decides to flee into the river.

[RexRaptor]

Actually...Showa Goji's beam was the hottest of the serries...he Evaporated thousands of gallons of Ocean Water. Now, they doesnt sound like alot, but think of it like this:

He evaporated something that can cool itself down. He evaporated thousands of gallons of water, in the Ocean. Not away from other water, but in it, so it has a chance too cool down. On your stove top, the water cant cool down, because its under direct heat. Not in the ocean.

[Gorjirus]

It's much more than visible heat, Gorjirus. A glowing-hot frying pan will only burn whatever it touches and nothing more. Fire actually eats at biodegradeable stuff and and continues to eat away, crawling upwards to whatever it can catch onto.


Bad description on my part. Visible, heated, air. The pan is a physical solid object, not free roaming fire.

Yes it would. However, who is a faster attacker? I believe Gamera is.


It would depend on the circumstances of the fight. If both fighters have to go to the battlefield, then Gamera would attack first. But, if the fighters are automatically there, then Hedorah might attack first. I will have to watch the trilogy again to make sure.

Electrodes shoot electricity, that DO have heat, it just doesn't radiate heat waves. But keep this in mind; Gamera can light the entire arena on fire, leaving him with plenty of flames to heal from and Hedorah getting drier and drier until he decides to flee into the river.


If Gamera lights the field on fire, that might backfire on him. What does fire create, especially pollution fire's? Lot's of SMOKE, which Hedorah would feed on. So, Gamera would heal himself, and Hedorah would have more fuel and energy. It would be an interesting circumstance.

[PyrasTerran]

Bad description on my part. Visible, heated, air. The pan is a physical solid object, not free roaming fire.

was using the pan as a comparison to Godzilla's breath weapon against Gamera's fiery plasma balls.


It would depend on the circumstances of the fight. If both fighters have to go to the battlefield, then Gamera would attack first. But, if the fighters are automatically there, then Hedorah might attack first. I will have to watch the trilogy again to make sure.


Make sure of what? Gamera attacked first in every battle.



If Gamera lights the field on fire, that might backfire on him. What does fire create, especially pollution fire's? Lot's of SMOKE, which Hedorah would feed on. So, Gamera would heal himself, and Hedorah would have more fuel and energy. It would be an interesting circumstance.

But the smoke is right on top of Hedorah, Hedorah actually has to get close to the smoke to start feeding on it, but will he able to with fire everywhere? Plus, getting out of his way to feed on smoke(provided he can) leaves him open to attack.

[kent]

Oh, I forgot, if you throw a lit match at someone they combust

You can't determine whether something can be caught on fire or not by such a tiny ammount of flame.

You were talking about how there was no proof that Hedorah wasn't flammable and I was showing you how you couldn't have been more wrong. If Hedorah was flammable, he would have started on fire. It's like a person drenched in gasoline, all it takes is a little spark or flame to start them up.
I was correcting you.

[PyrasTerran]

You were talking about how there was no proof that Hedorah wasn't flammable and I was showing you how you couldn't have been more wrong. If Hedorah was flammable, he would have started on fire. It's like a person drenched in gasoline, all it takes is a little spark or flame to start them up.
I was correcting you.

No, you were showing me how you misunderstand.

You can't determine if Hedorah can be set on fire or not by an arm-sized tossed torch. That just doesn't fly. And there's no other "evidence" of Hedorah being inflammable.

[kent]

You can't determine if Hedorah can be set on fire or not by an arm-sized tossed torch. That just doesn't fly. And there's no other "evidence" of Hedorah being inflammable.


Then please, provide evidence showing that he is.

[The Great MM]

Then please, provide evidence showing that he is.

Uhh...there is non. Cause he's both. A human is flammable, if using the right chemical compounds... IE: NAPALM. We seen that Goji's breath had no effect, and Gammy's balls can't produce that kinda heat that had no effect, so Hedorah has nothing to fear from the heat...the force is another thing...

If this is G3 Gamera...theres gonna be pieces of him everywhere. Even if some do manage to reform, its just gonna be a mater of time until Gamera cuts loose with the mana ray, if Hedorah decides to move is debatable. And I quote this "Bullets pass STRAIT THROUGH the Hedorah, and cause no damage", now a bullet won't cause much damage, its like shooting a spec of dust through mud...but now fire a bullet through mud...this would represent the fire balls...and theres gonna be pieces flying back...thats if you can somehow manage to hang mud up :P.

All aside, I do see where you seen carbon crystal, but again I bring up the scientist thing...he determines this by a word by a few kids and by taking ONE LOOK under a microscope...I don't buy it. Especially sence we even heard the reporter guy say "bullets pass STRAIT THROUGH". And to leave this side note...carbon crystal includes Diamonds....what happened to the diamon mirror of Super XII and Super MechaGodzilla's NT Diamond Armor when it got to much damage...

[PyrasTerran]

Then please, provide evidence showing that he is.

I never said there was. Just like you have none to prove Hedorah can't be set on fire.

We seen that Goji's breath had no effect, and Gammy's balls can't produce that kinda heat that had no effect, so Hedorah has nothing to fear from the heat

It's not just heat I'm talking about, it's FIRE. I thought my analogy would make it clear..

Especially sence we even heard the reporter guy say "bullets pass STRAIT THROUGH".

Oh, it was a reporter guy? What makes him the master of accuracy??

[The Great MM]

Oh, it was a reporter guy? What makes him the master of accuracy??

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the military probably provided the info...eh...don't matter, theres only a few times when Goji's punches didn't go through, Gammy's fire balls pack A LOT more force.

[RexRaptor]

Actually, the fumes of Hedorah will slowly kill Gammy, and if he goes Physical, hes gonna missing a few hands..

[The Great MM]

Actually, the fumes of Hedorah will slowly kill Gammy, and if he goes Physical, hes gonna missing a few hands..

1. Can only make "fumes" with laser and in flying form.

2. Was seen Gamera really had no need for air, even if he did, the mist did nothing to Goji but make him cough.

3. Funny, Godzilla impaled his hands in Hedorah around 5 times, the worst he ever recieved was when he impaled the eye, and then, the hand wasn't skeletonized, otherwise the hand would have just fallen to pieces, my take is that his "under" skin is a lighter grey color, cause thats exactly what it looked like, skin.

[Gorjirus]

Gamera attacked first in every battle.



One example from top of head: Airport scene in G2.

But the smoke is right on top of Hedorah, Hedorah actually has to get close to the smoke to start feeding on it,

I apologize, but that is completely confusing. If the smoke is right on top of Hedorah, he won't have to move to get to the smoke. It will come to him. That is why it is so confusing.

but will he able to with fire everywhere?

Yes. Hedorha starts fires as well. Why would he have a power that hurts him?

Plus, getting out of his way to feed on smoke(provided he can) leaves him open to attack.
But the smoke is right on top of Hedorah

Again, that is confusing, and seemingly contradictory. If fire is everywhere, so is the smoke so he wouldn't have to move.

All aside, I do see where you seen carbon crystal, but again I bring up the scientist thing...he determines this by a word by a few kids and by taking ONE LOOK under a microscope...I don't buy it

How do we know he doesn't look at it more? Plus, the fact is, IT IS CARBON CRYSTAL. He says it is, it shows us, so, it is. It doesn't matter if you buy it or not. I don't buy Gigan as the biggest coward ever, but does that mean in truth that he isn't? No.

Especially sence we even heard the reporter guy say "bullets pass STRAIT THROUGH".

Like Pyras said, it was a reporter. I am not going to put my faith in some reporter who is just trying to get ratings. I will believe science and the scientists.

what happened to the diamon mirror of Super XII and Super MechaGodzilla's NT Diamond Armor when it got to much damage...


But, that was just straightdiamond, not part of a compound. Plus, the Super X II was synthetic. I don't know about MG. But, Hedorah's is in a compound, thus making it stronger. Well, mixture is better than compound, but it is still a part of something else.

[The Great MM]

How do we know he doesn't look at it more? Plus, the fact is, IT IS CARBON CRYSTAL. He says it is, it shows us, so, it is. It doesn't matter if you buy it or not. I don't buy Gigan as the biggest coward ever, but does that mean in truth that he isn't? No.

This is one of the reasons Hedorah is confusing, as we seen 5 times, Hedorah is easily ripped into but is dubbed a carbon crystal...maybe he is a WEAK carbon crystal...he is an alien after all.

Like Pyras said, it was a reporter. I am not going to put my faith in some reporter who is just trying to get ratings. I will believe science and the scientists.

Eh, another thing in the movie that could have gone with out. We don't know where he got the info from, so its either taking it or leaving it.

But, that was just straightdiamond, not part of a compound. Plus, the Super X II was synthetic. I don't know about MG. But, Hedorah's is in a compound, thus making it stronger. Well, mixture is better than compound, but it is still a part of something else.

Yet Hedorah was broken into 5 times by simple punches, for carbon crystal, that is VERY weak.

[kent]

Just like you have none to prove Hedorah can't be set on fire.

There is Godzilla's own flame. As seen in the film it does have properties to burn things. Like when he set the garbage in the ocean on fire. Plus, when he used it on Hedorah, Hedorah sparked and some small pieces of him dried.
There is your proof Pyras.

Yet Hedorah was broken into 5 times by simple punches, for carbon crystal, that is VERY weak.

Carbon crystal is most useful against things like fire. Carbon crystal cannot be burnt or melted. Against physical attacks, it can crumble and be broken through. But not against things like fire.

[The Great MM]

Carbon crystal is most useful against things like fire. Carbon crystal cannot be burnt or melted. Against physical attacks, it can crumble and be broken through. But not against things like fire.

DUH! That is what I have been saying ever sence the Hedorah vs. GXMG Godzilla debate. The heat is a none factor, but the force of the beam/fire balls is. You can heat a hamer and smash it on a diamond, the heat won't do anything, the bashing will, Gamera's fire balls are the hammer...Hedorah is the diamond...

[kent]

DUH! That is what I have been saying ever sence the Hedorah vs. GXMG Godzilla debate. The heat is a none factor, but the force of the beam/fire balls is. You can heat a hamer and smash it on a diamond, the heat won't do anything, the bashing will, Gamera's fire balls are the hammer...Hedorah is the diamond...

The force may do next to nothing to Hedorah because of Gameras fireballs being made of fire. The heat is going to do anything. Even if the force is strong enough to go through Hedorah (which I doubt), it will do nothing.

[PyrasTerran]

One example from top of head: Airport scene in G2.

You mean where Gamera was ambushed? Excellent example. :sarcasm:

I apologize, but that is completely confusing. If the smoke is right on top of Hedorah, he won't have to move to get to the smoke. It will come to him. That is why it is so confusing.

It's confusing because I forgot a word. I was trying to say the smoke isn't right on top of him.

But on the topic.. smoke comes to Hedorah? Is he able to draw it towards him?

Yes. Hedorha starts fires as well. Why would he have a power that hurts him?

Hedorah starts fires? He has a power to create fires?? :eyebrow:

Again, that is confusing, and seemingly contradictory. If fire is everywhere, so is the smoke so he wouldn't have to move.

So is he able to suck up the smoke from the air like a vacuum?

There is Godzilla's own flame. As seen in the film it does have properties to burn things. Like when he set the garbage in the ocean on fire. Plus, when he used it on Hedorah, Hedorah sparked and some small pieces of him dried.
There is your proof Pyras.

:nonono2:

Do I have to bring up the frying pan comparison again? I'll try another one.

Say we have a flamethrower and a laser beam, each being shot at a separate piece of cloth. The laser beam will burn a hole through it, but nothing more. The flamethrower, on the other hand, will set the cloth on fire. Now magnify that laser beam to a larger size and it's still going to simply burn the section that it comes in contact with, but because it is not fire, it can't make it catch fire. And if this beam were used on something explosive, it would indeed cause a flame. If it were used in greenery, the left-over embers could create their own flame, but only the flamethrower actually envelopes the target in true fire.

There is a difference between a heat beam and a fire breath. Keep that in mind, because this is what's killing your so-called 'proof'.

You were better off attempting using the carbon crystal idea.

[PyrasTerran]

The force may do next to nothing to Hedorah because of Gameras fireballs being made of fire. The heat is going to do anything. Even if the force is strong enough to go through Hedorah (which I doubt), it will do nothing.

Tell that to Gyaos.

To be able to rip a 90-foot monster apart takes aLOT of force. Just because a heavy explosion has alot of fire in it doesn't mean that it's more fire than force.

[Wiz]

If fire is everywhere, so is the smoke so he wouldn't have to move.
Smoke rises, so the majority of the smoke will be high in the air, continually rising. This would make it increasingly difficult for Hedorah to get to the smoke. The alternative is for Hedorah to get directly over a fire, so that the smoke would rise right into him. But this would leave him open for an attack. Hedorah is at a dissadvantage because of the fact that he absorbs the smoke to get stronger. Gamera can just attack, while Hedorah will have to get some smoke evry now and then to boost his strength.

[The Great MM]

Since when does Hedorah absorb smoke? Smog yes, but smoke no. Hedorah flew strait through smoke when attacking the factory or what ever but absorbed the pollution given off by the towers... Hedorah also needs to concentrate, for as I just said, he just doesn't "absorb" it, he feeds on it...with a mouth. For Hedorah to just stop in the middle of battle and start consuming pollution...well...just proves my point he is an idiot...

[RexRaptor]

Hedorah is walking Polutoin, he absorbs it, and gains power from it.

[The Great MM]

Hedorah is walking Polutoin, he absorbs it, and gains power from it.

Wow...I never knew the rules of this stated that the voters could change the rules. If Hedorah gained "power" from pollution and "absorbed" it, then why didn't he in the first encounter? He was after all, surrounded by smog.

[MirrenDono]

Yeah, and that leaves him wide open for attack

If Gammy scores on fireball to his head as he did with Gyoas, it's over. Hedorah has a brain, and once its shattered, he's dead, no question.

[kent]

Say we have a flamethrower and a laser beam, each being shot at a separate piece of cloth. The laser beam will burn a hole through it, but nothing more. The flamethrower, on the other hand, will set the cloth on fire. Now magnify that laser beam to a larger size and it's still going to simply burn the section that it comes in contact with, but because it is not fire, it can't make it catch fire. And if this beam were used on something explosive, it would indeed cause a flame. If it were used in greenery, the left-over embers could create their own flame, but only the flamethrower actually envelopes the target in true fire.


I've read this several times and it makes absolutely no sense Pyras!
Godzilla's breath is heat and fire. It's heat that it crusted small parts of Hedorah off in their first encounter. It's heat because it set that garbage on fire.
Try again.

[PyrasTerran]

I've read this several times and it makes absolutely no sense Pyras!
Godzilla's breath is heat and fire. It's heat that it crusted small parts of Hedorah off in their first encounter. It's heat because it set that garbage on fire.
Try again.

must I resort to pictures... :nonono2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/PyrasTerran/hedorahandgojibeam.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/PyrasTerran/heddyandgamyball.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/PyrasTerran/heddyandgamyball2.jpg
Final note I forgot: fire, unlike Godzilla's heat beam, stays hot and continues to spread so long as their is oxygen and organic material to feed it.


I hope this finally clears it up to you.

[The Great MM]

LMAO. I never seen such a simple yet effective picture in the KK :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Gorjirus]

He was after all, surrounded by smog.

What? When Hedorah fought Godzilla, there wasn't smog, it was just night time.

Final note I forgot: fire, unlike Godzilla's heat beam, stays hot and continues to spread so long as their is oxygen and organic material to feed it.


But Hedorah ISN'T organic. Even though its alive, it isn't organic. I believe the scientist said something along those lines.

must I resort to pictures...

I'm sorry, but I don't see that as a bad thing. You have great pictures. :D

[PyrasTerran]

But Hedorah ISN'T organic. Even though its alive, it isn't organic. I believe the scientist said something along those lines.

I believe all carbon-based life-forms are organic..

What? When Hedorah fought Godzilla, there wasn't smog, it was just night time.

Might he be reffering to a time when Godzilla fought the lesser stage? Not sure, but I believe in one of those battles, Hedorah was near smoke stacks..

I'm sorry, but I don't see that as a bad thing. You have great pictures.

I'm the best $%&#ing artist in my world. :)

[Gorjirus]

Might he be reffering to a time when Godzilla fought the lesser stage? Not sure, but I believe in one of those battles, Hedorah was near smoke stacks..


He was, but I don't remember smog. And that was the scene at night, next to the ocean.

I'm the best $%&#ing artist in my world

I believe it.

[The Great MM]

He was, but I don't remember smog. And that was the scene at night, next to the ocean.

There were smoke stacks, they were in a heavy industry area, where even if not visible, there would be much much pollution in the air.

[Gorjirus]

There is a difference from smog and regular pollution. Smog can kill people, and well, there is pollution in the air right now around my place (as one of the silo's next to my house is on fire and has been burning for about four days), but it wouldn't be enough to do anything. There might have been some pollution in the air, but if it isn't visible, I doubt it would ahve been enough for Hedorah to do anything with.

[Mecha-Megas]

You know I could be very wrong, but I always thought the beam was the only thing hurting Hedorah in that first match. The beam hits, the creature jumps at Godzilla, misses, and starts to "bleed" all over until Godzilla hits him again and he retreats. They even find bunt peaces of Hedorah at the place he sparked and said in the DVD verision the sparks was Godzilla's beam interacting with the Hedoraium.