Star Wars lucas bootlickers united [Archive] - Page 2

Darth Reaper

November 19th, 2004, 01:57 AM

- With stop-motion animation, the models used to create the monsters are as real and substantial as the actors themselves. They don't make the movie look like it's a cartoon or a video game. The same could be said with suitamation.- Zigra

True, but it's still not real. That's not a real giant ape or real dinosaurs, they're models. I know it, you know it, just about everyone knows it. And, they're no more in the same place as the actors than the CGI effects are in the STAR WARS prequals. They were filmed somewhere else and edited in later. But, this doesn't effect my ability to enjoy the film.

- Another thing to consider is that in the case of classic movies that used stop-motion animation, the filmakers were working with the kinds of effects they had available to them at the time. It's only natural that it would seem rather....primitive, by today's standards.

We're always bound by the tools that we have at the time. In 70 or so years the technology that we have today will probably seem primitive by the standards of that time. These are the kinds of effects that we have right now. They're not always perfect but I like the way they look.

Morgoth

November 19th, 2004, 04:53 AM

I wish the forums still allowed me to make posts that just consisted of this:

:nonono2:

anguirus55

November 19th, 2004, 10:46 AM

You know what I personally find quite funny?

No one knew that the Tatooine sets in Episode I were digitally extended several feet higher than the actual set ended because Liam Neeson was so tall. But after *****film told everyone this was so, all these people on the Internet were outraged, simply outraged. What happened to good old-fashioned sets, goldang it?

If they can save construction costs and still create the world in these films, which, let's not kid ourselves, is many times more ambitious than what we saw in the first trilogy, why should we care?

It doesn't change the fact either way that the OT had far better acting and a better-moving story, but I don't find anything to hate in the prequels especially. Those who expected lightning to be caught in a bottle twice were most likely to be disappointed. No prequel will likely live up to ESB when all is said and done, but they are Star Wars to me, warts and all.

CBright7831

November 19th, 2004, 06:26 PM

Many models were also built for AOTC and filmed as background plates. Two models that I can think of are Yoda's HQ in the Jedi Temple and the arena on Geonosis.

anguirus55

November 23rd, 2004, 07:16 PM

AoTC set a record for most models used in a feature film, I believe.

Husnock

November 26th, 2004, 11:22 PM

First of all, General Grievous? So many things so VERY wrong with that, I'm not even gonna touch it lest I catch some terrible disease that degenerates my inner creativity.

"General Grievous'? Goddammit, but ***** is a moron... Where are his cronies Major Malevolence and Lieutenant Larcenous? Just because you have a twenty word vocabulary George, doesn't mean people with an education do and using fairly common words to try and make 'sinister sounding' villain names is outright pathetic. Darth Maul, Darth (In)Sidious and Darth Tyrannus were stupid enough, but this is retarded even by *****' already retarded standards...

What I want to know is where are the men with the butterfly nets and why haven't they dragged this moron off to a looney bin yet?Hehehe... You forgot Admiral Anguish and Captain Carnage.

And Zigra, you're not the only one here going to see it anyways (for better or worse). If I'm gonna complain about something for months after, then so help me God I want factual basis from it to base all of my *****ing on! :laugh:

Angiru-San

November 27th, 2004, 01:30 AM

Im not even going to argue with you people, so here....have a picture:

http://www.mrflix.com/comingsoon/starwars3_darths1.jpg

SuperXAsh

December 2nd, 2004, 12:28 AM

I don't know... honestly.

I didn't like Phantom Menace... but not to the disturbing lengths others seem to be. The mad-eyed, slobbering insanity that apparently resulted in some of these folks just... didn't happen to me. Wasn't the best movie I ever saw... but I came out of the theater with a slight wanting to know more. Sure it could've been more continuity friendly too... now that I think about it. 9_9

Attack of the Clones was a lot better than P.M. Mainly cause it finally got on with the story that I was wanting to know about since the hoopla about the prequels began. The problems that would change the SW world forever & lead into the original series finally began to emerge. My only gripe with AotC is the whole Yoda thing. Just... sure it was fun to see... at first... but... it didn't fit too well with Yoda's character. I don't know... the whole... "flipping and hopping around like a crazied marionet" just didn't appeal to me.

The final chapter to this story looks possibly the most promising of the bunch. Cause it finally will show us what we've only heard in Kenobi's tellings.

I... find it hard... to hate *****... or GL since the Mighty Morgoth hates the L word :sly:... as much as it is hard for me to hate Spielberg... despite some of their latest choices and actions.

Cause these are two of the guys who MADE most of my childhood. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Goonies, Jaws, the list goes on. But their movies had the biggest effect on me. Rivaled only by Comic Books and Godzilla. I mean... I can't hate them... no matter how hard I try... BUT I can most certainly hate some of their most recent actions and decisions... and wonder why the heck they've done these silly things ("take out the guns and replace them with walkie-talkies? WTF?" "Replace Old Anakin in Jedi with Whiney Anakin from AotC? What the hell?").

and Morgoth forgot something about the inspirations for GL's original trilogy... old shows like Flash Gordon and old comic strips like Buck Rogers also had an effect on him and his Star Wars films as well... not just the Japanese Films he took some story elements from. But he got it all right, pretty much the perfect mixture of elements and ideas and concepts into what can be seen as Modern Mythology (an idea played with in Reign of Fire during one scene).

I've said enough about Spielberg and his current Liberal mindset and how that's affected some of his films lately... but... I can't hate gods darnit. I just can't... can only just look back on the good memories about him and... the ***** one.

I'm still going to go see Episode 3... and hold all judgements till then. But right now... for the record... it looks to be the most promising of the whole lot of SW Prequels.

And yes... I am expecting to possibly be looking back on that phrase and thinking "What a dumbass" if it sucks.

:kinggoji: :gamera: :kingkong:

Darth Reaper

December 2nd, 2004, 03:23 AM

Cause these are two of the guys who MADE most of my childhood. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Goonies, Jaws, the list goes on. But their movies had the biggest effect on me. Rivaled only by Comic Books and Godzilla. I mean... I can't hate them... no matter how hard I try... BUT I can most certainly hate some of their most recent actions and decisions... and wonder why the heck they've done these silly things ("take out the guns and replace them with walkie-talkies? WTF?" "Replace Old Anakin in Jedi with Whiney Anakin from AotC? What the hell?").- SuperXAsh

You don't have to agree with them all the time in order to like them.

Husnock

December 11th, 2004, 11:04 PM

Im not even going to argue with you people, so here....have a picture:And here, have some more while you're at it:

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/artofrev/archive.html

It's concept art, but it seems what the drawings depict are what we're getting (unless otherwise stated in their descriptions), so to me it's the next best thing to honest-to-God screencaps!

Aaanyways... We get our first good look at a very close cousin of the X-Wing, the ARC-170 (a big and admittedly cool-looking heavy assault fighter, six akward-looking S-Foils aside), a craft which appears to feature heavily in the opening space battle scene. Definitely cooler than that sorry excuse for the new Jedi Starfighter. Kinda reminds me of the P-61 Black Widow nightfighters from WWII...

And better yet... ***** apparently has finally caved and put in an honest-to-God EU vehicle from the Clone Wars! Now, unfortunately, it's not the Dreadnaught, nor is it the VicStar (although someone said they saw the silhouette of one in the background of a pic of General Grievous... probably an easter egg), but it's still a vehicle that, in the EU canon, first saw action in the Clone Wars: a Juggernaut heavy assault vehicle. Think AT-AT on wheels. And it's not just concept art, either. You can briefly see some in the background of a ground-based scene in one of the trailers.

And then there's that one little... unsettling piece. For now, let us try to ignore the Mon CAlamari woman with... features... and the description which hints at some "big musical numbers" (God I hope they just mean something like the Max Rebo Band scene, which was bad enough, but it could be far, far worse... and it probably will...).

BS Digital Q

December 11th, 2004, 11:32 PM

Those concepts are good, but I'm sure glad were getting the Juggernauts, one of my favorite mechs!

Husnock

December 12th, 2004, 12:52 AM

Those concepts are good, but I'm sure glad were getting the Juggernauts, one of my favorite mechs!Ah yes, the classic Rolling Slabs are finally rolling their way to the Silverscreen! :cool:

Furthermore, this will mark the second time (I think) that an EU vehicle/vessel has made it into a movie. The only other time was the Outrider in the ANH SE (though I've yet to catch it).

Angiru-San

December 12th, 2004, 09:24 AM

Good. The Nemodian's culture seems to be unique and its own....I like it. The 'Luxury Droids' may be taking it too far, but it does make sense that they would get more lifelike the more money you hade to waste on them.

Everything else Ive seen....being the Star Wars fan that I am I have been periodically checking the site, looking at the 'free' stuff. But you can bet your *** Ill never be paying for that Hyperspace ripoff...

Husnock

December 12th, 2004, 11:43 AM

But you can bet your *** Ill never be paying for that Hyperspace ripoff..."Hyperspace ripoff"..?

Good. The Nemodian's culture seems to be unique and its own....I like it.You can only expect guys like them to have the most lavish lifestyles money can buy. Kinda funny how that beautiful golden foyer contrasts the dead wasteland in the distance...

Anyways, that scene is apparently supposed to be a part of some montage showing the effects of the Clone Wars all over the Galaxy, not unlike those last scenes in the RotJ SE showing various planets such as Coruscant, Bespin, and Tatooine celebrating the downfall of the Emperor. 'Cept they're not celebrating as much as they are killing each other...

The 'Luxury Droids' may be taking it too far, but it does make sense that they would get more lifelike the more money you hade to waste on them.They might be a precursor of the Human Replica Droids of the EU (like Guri in Shadows of the Empire). Still a bit disturbing, especially since they don't seem to have even near the job profile of the HRDs (Guri was the result of an axed military espionage project, as were pretty much all the others that were ever mentioned). Well, whatever...

CBright7831

December 12th, 2004, 12:48 PM

Husnock

December 14th, 2004, 11:05 PM

NEW CONCEPT PIC!!! Probably the earliest vehicle to become public knowledge in the Star Wars community. I'd first heard rumors of an open, one-man precursor to the AT-ST almost a year ago on a gaming board.

Nute Gunray is probably one of my favorite supporting prequel characters.Hey, to each his own, I guess...

Melkor

January 4th, 2005, 06:03 AM

Zigra

January 4th, 2005, 06:10 AM

Hmm, yes, that article was interesting. Still, that doesn't seem to change how the prequels are adding some pseudo-science element to what is suppose to be something mystical and spiritual. The idea that these microbes, or whatever the heck they are, have some particular conjunction with how much mystical power an individual has just seems........silly.

Also, in an interview posted at the Cinescape website awhile back (when AotC was just coming out in theaters) Lu*as stated that Anakin was created by the medi-clorians. Perhaps he was just pulling our legs, but he did say it.

Angiru-San

January 4th, 2005, 06:17 PM

Well, Schmi did say that there was no father....

But I doubt that was made as a serious comment. And everyone takes the midi chlorine thing too seriously...

Darth Reaper

January 4th, 2005, 07:00 PM

Actually, based on everything that I've seen/heard/read, The Force isn't mystical at all. It's just as much a part of nature as anything else. As Yoda said, life creates it, makes it grow, and it in turn binds all things together. And, in SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE, Luke remembers Yoda saying that as wonderous as The Force is, it's still very natural. So, there's nothing supernatural about The Force, it's a part of the universe that we don't understand.

And, according to George, he always intended to add a practicle aspect to The Force, a biological mechanism that gives people the ability to tap into it, he just didn't have the time. The Midiclorians (spelling ?) are the reason why some people have a greater connection to The Force than others. I know that some people seem to prefer to disregard anything that George says nowadays as nonsense, but maybe they shouldn't.

The Great MM

January 4th, 2005, 07:10 PM

Wow, looking good. Can't wait for this....how many people wanna bet I'll be one of the only ones here who enjoys it...

Cole Deschain

January 4th, 2005, 07:22 PM

The Mdichlorians are the single most pathetic aspect of these bloodydamn prequels.

Yes, let's take something that had an air of mystery to it, and turn it into an issue of blood type. Sounds good.

Jar-Jar the Jamaican Catfish could be excused if the entire business didn't seem to be an exercise in dumbing down the universe to the point where the five year-olds in the theatre were calling Palpatine the bad guy... back in Phantom Menace. Scriptwriting was never GL's forte, but he's really plumbing new depths with these nightmares.

And yes, I will see Episode Three. I owe James Earl Jones that much, at least. Even though his voice will probably only feature in the last fifteen minutes of the movie, at best.

Black Libra

January 4th, 2005, 08:16 PM

*sees the Mon Calamorian dancer and falls off his chair*

Finally, something that broke the formula. I hope they put her in the movie...

Ahem, I think the movie is looking good so far. Palpatine looks absolutely EVIL.

Black Libra

January 4th, 2005, 08:39 PM

And then there's that one little... unsettling piece. For now, let us try to ignore the Mon CAlamari woman with... features... and the description which hints at some "big musical numbers" (God I hope they just mean something like the Max Rebo Band scene, which was bad enough, but it could be far, far worse... and it probably will...).

Errr, Husnock, how is a Mon Calamari female with features unsettling? Please do explain.

Also, I for one am not ignoring it.

So there.

Morgoth

January 4th, 2005, 08:48 PM

When was the last time you saw a fish or a frog for that matter with knockers?

As little sense as this crap already makes, slapping mammal physical traits on things that clearly aren't in the lest bit mammilian is just really scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of gross stupidity and sloppiness.

Black Libra

January 4th, 2005, 09:02 PM

slapping mammal physical traits on things that clearly aren't in the lest bit mammilian is just really scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of gross stupidity and sloppiness.

I have "knockers" on some of my fictional kaiju, so I guess I'm scraping the same barrel...

HolyGoji777

January 4th, 2005, 09:24 PM

yeah great another atrocity against films i once loved...now seeing yoda is the only reason why i bother to watch. and i certainly dont buy the films i wait till they are on HBO.

its funny me and my friend got into an argument i was like "i hate how george ***** ruined star wars" and he was all defensive of him like "its his creation he can do what he wants with it" and i said "i didnt say he couldnt do what he wanted with it, im just saying he turned it into crap"

OFF TOPIC : kaiju and knockers really shouldnt mix. ever.

Husnock

January 9th, 2005, 10:33 PM

OFF TOPIC : kaiju and knockers really shouldnt mix. ever.Thank you.

Errr, Husnock, how is a Mon Calamari female with features unsettling? Please do explain.

Also, I for one am not ignoring it.

So there.I wasn't ordering you to ignore it.

And yes, some of us do find it slightly disturbing that a humanoid alien squid/fish/amphibian creature has had breasts slapped, and will apparently be doing some erotic Twi'ek-style dance number (God help us) in a movie that it has do business doing such a thing in (WHY GEORGE WHY?!).

Morgoth

January 10th, 2005, 03:43 PM

Unless you've done a mammal kaiju, like a female gargantua or something, or an artificial like Mechagodzilla, where the builders could do anything they pretty much wanted, then yeah, doing that to your kaiju is a terribly unintelligent thing displaying a lack of basic understanding about animals, how they work and why they work. Lets put it this way - species that do not nurse their young have no need of mammary glands. Reptiles, with very few exceptions, lay their eggs and then let the young fend for themselves after that - no need to feed babies so no need for superfluous glands. Birds, insects, fish, anything that isn't a mammal, falls into the same category, birds being sort of a half-way point where they still lay eggs but do take care of their offspring (being forced to provide solid food for the hatchlings). Fantastic creatures should always have a slight basis in reality, otherwise they become too outlandish and unbelievable.

To Judas, I can only point and laugh. He's become like some hobo wandering around the slums muttering to himself inbetween scrounging in garbage cans looking for his latest idea.

Zigra

January 10th, 2005, 05:03 PM

Well, on the other hand, these are completely alien lifeforms we're talking about here. Do you really think evolution would progress in the exact same fashon on other worlds as it did on Earth? Who knows if these creatures could fit into any known class of animals that are here on Earth? Eh, I guess I better not give Georgie any excuses.

On that note, here's a question that has burned in my mind since the original trilogy: if SWs really does take place in a galaxy far far away that supposedly has had no contact with Earth, then what the hell are human beings doing there?

SuperXAsh

January 10th, 2005, 05:36 PM

They're probably not your standard humans. They probably originated somewhere in the known Star Wars Galaxy, and just happen to resemble Humans. It's the same basic question that's undoubtedly been asked of Star Trek as well, from their run-ins with very humanoid (if not outright human in basic appearance) alien species. Same with Flash Gordon, etc etc etc.

You're looking too much into this Zig. :sly:

Funny how I didn't hear anything about that one Greedo looking chick in the Return of the Jedi Special Edition, but put one Mon Calamari chick in a skimpy outfit and giver her a set of knockers and it's apparently crossing the line.

It's Science Fiction. Fantasy. Get over it.

:kinggoji: :gamera: :kingkong:

Saruman

January 10th, 2005, 05:48 PM

I was browsing around another site when I saw these. Apparently these are the latest batch of ROTS pics. Though I still hate the prequels I have to admit Grievous looks a lot more. . . meatier than in previous pics. I'm sure Clint is fuming right now. Anyway:

http://img136.exs.cx/img136/4315/yodasequence9js.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/Prod_dur/grievous4lu.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/Prod_dur/grievous27um.jpg

Why did I look? Why did I look? Why did I freakin look? AARRRGGGGHHHHHhhhhhh.......

It's funny, I thought the Jedis were supposed to keep their emotions in check. Look's like Yoda is pretty pissed off, guess he must need more training.:darklord:

And what the hell is up with Grevious? He looks horrid. If he looks like that in the film then this is going to be even worse CGI than the previous two. Give me a made for TV, Sci-Fi Channel film any day over this garbage.

Zigra

January 10th, 2005, 06:19 PM

They're probably not your standard humans. They probably originated somewhere in the known Star Wars Galaxy, and just happen to resemble Humans. It's the same basic question that's undoubtedly been asked of Star Trek as well, from their run-ins with very humanoid (if not outright human in basic appearance) alien species. Same with Flash Gordon, etc etc etc.

You're looking too much into this Zig. :sly:

The reason for so many humanoid races in Star Trek has been explained in an episode of Star Trek:TNG (an ancient humanoid race planted the genetic code in lifeforms across the galaxy to allow for humanoid races like themselves to evolve). And, for your information, not only do the people in SW look human, but they are called humans as well.

As for me looking too much into this, you're probably right. Stuff that Georgie writes isn't suppose to require any sort of thinking or brainpower:D

Darth Reaper

January 10th, 2005, 06:51 PM

On that note, here's a question that has burned in my mind since the original trilogy: if SWs really does take place in a galaxy far far away that supposedly has had no contact with Earth, then what the hell are human beings doing there?- Zigra

I figure there are two ways to look at this:

1) This is a completely fictional universe that has no connection whatsoever to ours. It's a fantasy land, and as such the real life origins of humanity are irrelavent. For all we know, there is no Earth in this universe.

2) Chronologically speaking, STAR WARS actually takes place in the distant future, long after humanity has expanded to the stars and perhaps has even forgotten about the planet of their origin. When the beginning credits say "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away," one doesn't neccessarily need to take it litterally. Most fairy tales begin with some variation on "once upon a time;" STAR WARS is, among other things, a fairy tale, and this is its variation on that beginning. It doesn't have to litterally mean that the series has to take place in the past, it's just a way of saying that it's a fantasy story and should be treated as such.

Personally, of these two theories, I prefer the second one myself. :D

It's funny, I thought the Jedis were supposed to keep their emotions in check. Look's like Yoda is pretty pissed off, guess he must need more training.- Saruman

Odd, Yoda doesn't look very angry to me, more like grave and determined.

Besides, nobody's perfect, and everyone has their limits, even Yoda.

Plus, I think contraling one's emotions is something that Jedi must work on every day. Like an alcoholic struggling against his/her addiction, a Jedi must resist the temptation to give in to emotion all the time. The temptation doesn't go away, no matter how experienced you become.

And what the hell is up with Grevious? He looks horrid. If he looks like that in the film then this is going to be even worse CGI than the previous two. Give me a made for TV, Sci-Fi Channel film any day over this garbage.

Look's good to me.

Husnock

January 10th, 2005, 09:59 PM

Grievous... doesn't look all that great. He just seems to scream "videogame."

Actually, based on everything that I've seen/heard/read, The Force isn't mystical at all. It's just as much a part of nature as anything else. As Yoda said, life creates it, makes it grow, and it in turn binds all things together. And, in SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE, Luke remembers Yoda saying that as wonderous as The Force is, it's still very natural. So, there's nothing supernatural about The Force, it's a part of the universe that we don't understand.

And, according to George, he always intended to add a practicle aspect to The Force, a biological mechanism that gives people the ability to tap into it, he just didn't have the time. The Midiclorians (spelling ?) are the reason why some people have a greater connection to The Force than others. I know that some people seem to prefer to disregard anything that George says nowadays as nonsense, but maybe they shouldn't.I think you're looking far too literally into what Yoda was saying there, and not paying attention to how he said it. He wasn't repeatedly droning, "Perfectly normal it is, nothing supernatural, mystical, or mysterious about it, oh no." He described it as some awesome, unfathomably powerful... force... that ties and binds all of us, flows through and between all things, uniting them. The Force creates life, allows it to exist, just as life does the same back. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!"

And you call yourself a Dark Lord of the Sith... *tsk* *tsk* *tsk* :D

On that note, here's a question that has burned in my mind since the original trilogy: if SWs really does take place in a galaxy far far away that supposedly has had no contact with Earth, then what the hell are human beings doing there?There've been numerous theories and questions about that. One DR already brought up (that the opening sequence is misleading, and it's actually our distant future), though that leads one to wonder: what happened to Earth? Was it lost in the dark annals of history (remember, the Galactic Republic alone is over 25,000 years old, not counting the centuries "we've" been travelling the stars before its formation), or is it maybe a world we already know, just with a new name and face?

Others I've heard is that we've been exported (for whatever reason) either to or from that galaxy (considering how old civilization is and how developed and numerous humans are, I'm leaning more towards "from"), perhaps by either the Rakata from the KotOR games, or whoever was responsible for the "Maw" Black Hole Cluster (which, according to astrologists, should've eaten itself apart millenia ago) and the Corellian System (*cough*Centerpoint*cough*).

Darth Reaper

January 10th, 2005, 11:32 PM

I think you're looking far too literally into what Yoda was saying there, and not paying attention to how he said it. He wasn't repeatedly droning, "Perfectly normal it is, nothing supernatural, mystical, or mysterious about it, oh no." He described it as some awesome, unfathomably powerful... force... that ties and binds all of us, flows through and between all things, uniting them. The Force creates life, allows it to exist, just as life does the same back. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!"

And you call yourself a Dark Lord of the Sith... *tsk* *tsk* *tsk*- Husnock

I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying. The Force IS mysterious, and wonderous, and powerful beyond comprehention, but that doesn't make it any less natural. The Force doesn't exist outside of nature, it's a part of nature. It's a part of us and everything else. That doesn't mean that The Force is weak or punny, that just means that creation is a far greater and more complex thing then we could ever imagine. There's more to the universe than what we can see and touch, and The Force is one of those things.

Cole Deschain

January 10th, 2005, 11:34 PM

^ And of course, having the right amount of microbes in your blood makes it that much easier to understand :sarcasm:

Morgoth

January 11th, 2005, 03:48 AM

Who the hell knows exactly what the frag a Rodian is supposed to be, it doesn't really look like anything earth-like. The freaking Mon Cal are frigging frogs for cryin' out loud, though frogs with knockers. You're right, I'm spending way too much time bothering about still another instance of Judas and his obvious lack of intelligence - why woud an alien be even remotely different from a human being, why wouldn't they all have nice and recognisable female and male incarnations, unlike 50% of earth life forms where it gets a bit harder to tell the lads from the ladlies.

End of this rant, and the last time I let myself get sucked back into this worthless topic. SW isn;t worth the aggravation to bother about, much less actually debating with the drooling fan boys who still don't understand and never will. Just go and stand in line like that moron in Oregon. 'Lookee, first freak in my town to stand in line for a suck-*** movie that isn't coming out until May!'

:nonono2:

Zigra

January 11th, 2005, 05:23 AM

2) When the beginning credits say "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away," one doesn't neccessarily need to take it litterally.

Uh, there is no other way to interpret "a long time ago". It's straight forward. That's like saying something that is stated to be colored blue might actually be colored red.

Darth Reaper

January 11th, 2005, 05:26 AM

Just go and stand in line like that moron in Oregon. 'Lookee, first freak in my town to stand in line for a suck-*** movie that isn't coming out until May!'- Morgoth

At last, there's something that we can agree on in this topic Clint. Waiting in line for months to see a movie that's coming out in May, that's madness. My guess is that people who do that do it as much for attention as they do out of the genuine desire to see the movie. "Look at me, I'm making a spectacle of myself. See what a loyal STAR WARS fan I am." Personally, there are times when I can't sit still for more than a couple of minutes at a time (too much nervous energy, I think). You probably think I'm nuts for still liking Star Wars after all of this Clint, but rest assured that I'm not that nuts. I'll probably try to get my ticket sometime around opening day. I may fail, but at least I'll have kept some dignity.

Husnock

January 11th, 2005, 03:28 PM

I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying. The Force IS mysterious, and wonderous, and powerful beyond comprehention, but that doesn't make it any less natural. The Force doesn't exist outside of nature, it's a part of nature. It's a part of us and everything else. That doesn't mean that The Force is weak or punny, that just means that creation is a far greater and more complex thing then we could ever imagine. There's more to the universe than what we can see and touch, and The Force is one of those things.Alright, my bad, it's just that the way you were speaking about it in your post sorta sounded like you were implying it to be something much... lesser than what you really meant.

Husnock

January 11th, 2005, 03:30 PM

It's funny, I thought the Jedis were supposed to keep their emotions in check. Look's like Yoda is pretty pissed off, guess he must need more training.:darklord: You think Yoda's upset?! Jeezus, look at Palpy! Now that's what I'd call "pretty pissed off!" :devil:

Darth Reaper

January 11th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Uh, there is no other way to interpret "a long time ago". It's straight forward. That's like saying something that is stated to be colored blue might actually be colored red.- Zigra

Not neccessarily. Do you remember the TV series BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, starring Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton? The pilot episode of that series began with the words "Once upon a time, in New York." The thing is that the series took place in what was then modern day New York (1987 to be exact), so those first words should be wrong. This story isn't happening once upon a time, it's happening right now (when the show first aired). But, those words weren't about chronology, they were meant to establish that the show that we're watching is essentually a fairy tale. It starts with 'once upon a time' because that's how fairy tales often start. I think the same thing can apply to STAR WARS.

Husnock

January 12th, 2005, 08:49 PM

Not neccessarily. Do you remember the TV series BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, starring Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton? The pilot episode of that series began with the words "Once upon a time, in New York." The thing is that the series took place in what was then modern day New York (1987 to be exact), so those first words should be wrong. This story isn't happening once upon a time, it's happening right now (when the show first aired). But, those words weren't about chronology, they were meant to establish that the show that we're watching is essentually a fairy tale. It starts with 'once upon a time' because that's how fairy tales often start. I think the same thing can apply to STAR WARS.Yes, but the difference here is that the SW opening explicitly says "A long time ago." "once upon a time..." is alot less direct in what it says, so it can be interpreted differently. It's just not the same thing.

Darth Reaper

January 12th, 2005, 09:07 PM

Yes, but the difference here is that the SW opening explicitly says "A long time ago." "once upon a time..." is alot less direct in what it says, so it can be interpreted differently. It's just not the same thing.- Husnock

I disagree. If taken litterally, I think "Once upon a time" states pretty clearly that the story is supposed to be taking place some time in the past. Maybe it's not as exact as "A long time ago" but the meaning is still the same. People don't usually use the word 'once' when beginning a discussion on things that haven't happened yet. It's a word that's generally used for things that are past tense. So, I stand by my assertion that the beginning of STAR WARS doesn't have to be taken litteral. It can simply be another variation on a time-honored method of beginning a story.

Cole Deschain

January 12th, 2005, 10:15 PM

No, "Once upon a time" literally means, "One time."

"Once Upon a Time" could be last week.

Darth Reaper

January 14th, 2005, 01:24 AM

It still refers to a situation that's already happened. It doesn't matter if it's a week ago or a hundred years ago, it's still in the past. You don't usually use "once upon a time" to refer to something that hasn't happened yet. You use it to refer to things that have already happened. But, if you decide to use it figuratively rather than litterally, it can mean anything. I think "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" can be used the same way, you just have to look at it figuratively rather than litterally.

mecha-kumonga

February 27th, 2005, 01:53 AM

Hey I found this trivia on imdb.com it kind of funny check it out.

"In the summer of 1998, the movie Godzilla (1998) was released amongst a whirlwind of media hype as part an ambitious studio campaign called "Size Does Matter", featuring massive signs and banners meant to emphasize the size of the monster. After its release, the movie was the subject of an intense backlash by both critics and audiences. The programmers of www.StarWars.com put up a temporary webpage with mocking the "Godzilla" campaign with a poster lettered with the green glow reading "Plot Does Matter - May 1999", in reference to "The Phantom Menace"."

Cole Deschain

February 27th, 2005, 04:31 AM

Too bad they failed utterly to follow through.

Morgoth

February 27th, 2005, 05:59 AM

This would be too easy to comment on so I'll just be quiet...

Saruman

February 27th, 2005, 06:22 PM

This would be too easy to comment on so I'll just be quiet...

Your getting to be a big softy Clint. :p

Gotta love how ironic things are. They make fun of G'98 and then they get two (soon to be three) of the worst films ever made.

The Great MM

April 4th, 2005, 06:16 PM

*Dodges Bullet for This*...

Ok, I'm sure must of you saw "STAR WARS: ATTACK OF THE CLONES", and weather you loved it or hated it, ya gotta admit, the Acklay, Nexu, and Reek at the end were pretty damn cool and neat looking. So what was your favorite... we have...

http://monsterarchives.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=OtherMonsters&action=display&num=1101790456 - Reek

http://monsterarchives.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=OtherMonsters&action=display&num=1101790338 - Nexu

http://monsterarchives.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=OtherMonsters&action=display&num=1101790426 - Acklay

I must say, my favorite was the Acklay. His design and look was very awesome...and that shriek... following behind him is Nexu...

Morgoth

April 4th, 2005, 06:19 PM

The Great MM

April 4th, 2005, 06:21 PM

No, all three of the wretched things looked like rejects from an Unreal or Quake game, especially that asinine rhino-looking thing. It takes the award for lamest retard in the 'signifigantly challenged' category. Really MM, you gotta stop liking EVERYTHING. Develop some taste for God's sake. :p

lol. What can I say...I just have a special place for the rejects of the monster fandom... even the Star Wars ones. BTW, the rhino thing was the Reek. :p And atleast we have one thing in common...we hated the Hulk movie. :laugh:

biochemitra

April 4th, 2005, 06:54 PM

Aklay. It just had a cool design. And the fact that it was originally a troodon thing means its partially reptillian.

Really MM, you gotta stop liking EVERYTHING. Develop some taste for God's sake. :p
You mean you would downgrade someone into a bickering ninny who hated half the things he saw and was thusly happy only half as much?
You are a cruel and sadistic beast morgoth......

Mothraleo

April 4th, 2005, 06:58 PM

You are a cruel and sadistic beast morgoth......

You just realize this now? Haven't your read any of his great books? :laugh: ;)

Anyway, I don't remember enough of the movie to know which I like most, as I never liked the movie, and don't care to watch it again to find out.

anguirus55

April 4th, 2005, 07:16 PM

I like the acklay. None of them are as cool as the rancor, but the acklay came close. And his fight with Obi-Wan was one of the highlights of the film.

I liked how all the monsters were very different from each other.

The Great MM

April 4th, 2005, 07:28 PM

I like the acklay. None of them are as cool as the rancor, but the acklay came close.

It's a pitty that the Dark Lords don't allow such a fight in the KK...but I always wondered what people would think of a fight between Acklay and Rancor...who would win and such...

anguirus55

April 4th, 2005, 09:29 PM

The acklay has tremendous strength, but the rancor has a big size and leverage advantage. Tough, but I want to say the rancor.

SandwormPhish

April 4th, 2005, 09:33 PM

I liked the Nexu actually.. mostly because it responded to the electro-prod by mauling the handler :D

anguirus55

April 4th, 2005, 09:36 PM

^ That one was my favorite at first, but it went out like a *****. ;)

I loved it when Obi got a lightsabre back and the acklay comes to bother him again and he just goes to town on it.

SandwormPhish

April 4th, 2005, 09:40 PM

At least it went down to something bigger. A hit from a Reek is something I doubt most animals would walk away from.

anguirus55

April 4th, 2005, 09:43 PM

Neo-Crucifer

April 4th, 2005, 09:46 PM

^ That one was my favorite at first, but it went out like a *****. ;)

Reek went out worse. I mean, you'd expect it'd take at least a few blaster shots, not just one. But hey, it was a neck shot... :confused:

That aside, my favorite of them all was the Acklay. Like an H.R. Geiger Alien crossed with a Swiss army knife. Plus, I've just got a thing for insectoid/reptilian hybrids. :laugh:

anguirus55

April 4th, 2005, 09:48 PM

Way I see it, the reek and Jango killed each other, and coming out even to that guy is a good way to go. (Jango took out a Council member in that same fight. Mace got him so easily because his jet pack was damaged by the reek.)

Perfect head shot. Makes you wonder what happened to the stormies.

Neo-Crucifer

April 4th, 2005, 09:54 PM

It'd be funny if the Acklay came back for Episode 3 and sliced up Annie... Hey, the audience wouldn't see it coming.

Plus, it would satisfy many people to see that whining ***** die a horrible death. :darklord:

The Great MM

April 4th, 2005, 10:16 PM

If ya think about it... the Acklay would probably take down the Rancor. The thing, as Ang55 said, took down a collumn with a headbutt, and then continued to take down droids. And plus, you would think he would have been hit by some blaster hits but kept going...proving he could probably withstand some heavy damage from someone like Rancor.

Also the fact that he took multiple light saber strikes...Obi was put down by what...2? Qui Gonn was down by one... Acklay took 3 or 4 before dieing... If a fight between Acklay and Rancor was in an open area like the arena...I'd guess the Acklay would win...if a closed space like the Rancor pen...I'd give it to Rancor...

anguirus55

April 4th, 2005, 10:23 PM

Plus, it would satisfy many people to see that whining ***** die a horrible death.

Uh, we've known how he dies since 1983. I think the lava's probably, if anything, more painful.

biochemitra

April 4th, 2005, 10:55 PM

I've just got a thing for insectoid/reptilian hybrids. :laugh:

You are not alone.

A rancor\aklay fight would be cool, but what of an aklay\kathoga fight?

The Great MM

April 4th, 2005, 10:56 PM

You are not alone.

A rancor\aklay fight would be cool, but what of an aklay\kathoga fight?

Kathoga would be annhilated...he has NOTHING that can actually really harm the Acklay...and Acklay has everything that can harm Kathoga.

biochemitra

April 4th, 2005, 11:02 PM

Well I guess that answers that question.

BTW, while SW monsters are the topic, Does anyoine know which movie the krayt dragn was supposed to appeare in?

Also, which is the bantha? The huge hairy buffalo things or the maisaura\sauropod thing in "return of the jedi"?

The Great MM

April 4th, 2005, 11:05 PM

The Krayt Dragon did appear on film but was just a skeleton, you see a good shot of it when C-3PO and R2 are walking in the desert in "STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE". And the Bantha is the giant furry thing that lives on Tatoonie.

anguirus55

April 4th, 2005, 11:07 PM

A krayt dragon skeleton has a brief appearence in ANH. Doesn't look all that threatening, just long. EU blew it out of proportion.

The Bantha is the "buffalo thing," and I have no idea what "dinosaur" from Jedi you are referring to...

The Great MM

April 4th, 2005, 11:09 PM

The only dinosaur thing I can remember is the bounty hunter from ESB, hmm...what was his name... I'll get back to you on that.

biochemitra

April 4th, 2005, 11:10 PM

and I have no idea what "dinosaur" from Jedi you are referring to...

Im talking about that one greenish thing that those guys were trying to control. I remmeber it had some kind of rope on its snout and a guy was hanging on to it.

juan

April 5th, 2005, 02:24 AM

Well, we all know that original Star Wars is one of the most loved films in American cinema by both critics and fans alike. Its classic space opera that speaks to the happpy kid in all os us but the new trilogy... not so much.
While I myself like the new movies, Episode One and its kin have been critisized by some, even by those who counted themselves along devotees of Star Wars. (Then there are of course the super fans who'll by Star Wars toilet paper if they find it.) If you dislike the Episode One trilogy, why is it... and please, no flaming. :nervous:

A) George ***** is a no talent hack that got lucky in making the first Star Wars. (My buddy the State Alchemist thinks so.)

B) George ***** proves that greed is a strong enemy to the Force by going into the Dark Side and making the movies for money. (In fan reaction nowadays, ***** has jokingly compared himself to Darth Vader because he is now what he once fought against.)

C) Its not your Star Wars. I've heard one guy who said he wants to kill George ***** later sigh and say, its because he fell so deeply in love with the old Star Wars that he can't bring himself to accept any other Star Wars. (Perhaps twenty years from now, the Star Wars fans who grew up watching Episode One will look at us and shake their heads)

What do you say

Kaiju_Sensai

April 5th, 2005, 02:27 AM

My favorite Star Wars creature is the Colo Claw Fish from Episode 1, the big eel one with the blue lights down its side.

juan

April 5th, 2005, 02:28 AM

What the devil :cry: ... Have the owners of this forum forbidden even speaking the name of George *****? Lets test it ***** and L-U-C-A-S

Cole Deschain

April 5th, 2005, 02:40 AM

Why the hate?

Because it pisses all over established continuity, de-mystifies the force, gave us ethnic charicature aliens, a plot that made about as much sense as baby vomit on a placemat, and otherwise skilled actors being forced to work off of things that were not even there.

For a start.

SandwormPhish

April 5th, 2005, 02:43 AM

Well, the acklay would have murdered the reek, and I'm sure the nexu. The reek hit a column at a charge and didn't make a dent, the acklay casually scuttled up to another and head-butted it completely over.

You know, say what you will about AoTC, but I love that arena battle to death!

Yeah but keep in mind the Nexu is what, half the size of the other two? You can't deny it gets the best intro of the lot though :D

Cole Deschain

April 5th, 2005, 03:08 AM

A Wampa vs. a Wookie.

There's a fight I'd pay to watch.

Morgoth

April 5th, 2005, 04:39 AM

Uh, can we make Cole's answer one of the choices?

PyrasTerran

April 5th, 2005, 09:07 AM

I guess Episode 1 can shine over Episode 2 in that 2's Anakin was a HORRIBLE actor. But, Episode 1 had Jar Jar Binks, which is just as bad.

biochemitra

April 5th, 2005, 09:34 AM

Ah, The infamous jar jar.......

Why the hate for him too? Is it the squeaky voice?

BS Digital Q

April 5th, 2005, 09:49 AM

^He's just a horrible character that in just about every aspect you can imagine. The only thing thing that made in the least bit redeemable was his comic relief (and even then, I was already laughing at the film anyway). Anywho, my choice would be A. He came up with a great idea, and thats what ultimately saved him.

Cyber Bishop

April 5th, 2005, 10:18 AM

Three words for me...

Jar Jar Binks..

And the midichlorians pissed me off also.

Mothraleo

April 5th, 2005, 11:04 AM

Just a terrible movie all around, plain and simple.

It sucks, much like its Prequal sequal, and the soon to be ROTS.

The Great MM

April 5th, 2005, 11:36 AM

I didn't mind it... got pretty boring and Anakin sucked eggs... but the Colo Claw Fish, Sando Aqua Monster, and Opee Sea Killer rocked.

THE ONE AND ONLY

April 5th, 2005, 12:01 PM

I voted for "Its not your Star Wars." Basically I think the disappointment comes from the fact that in the 16 years between it ,and Return of The Jedi fans waited in expectation to see the story of Anakin's fall from grace. In that time they all had built up in thier minds how this flick would go, and for the most part alrready had the whole trilogy completed in their heads. Also in the months before the Ep-1's relase this film was hyped as none had been before. As one fan said about this,"You were expecting Jesus Christ himself to show up in the film ,and come out of the screen." , the way everyone was talking about it. So I think some backlash, and disappointment was to be expected. Another thing brought up in forums about this subject was the fact Crazy George is a product of another era of filmmaking. Episode 1 was a rather light hearted flick the man wrote with his kids in mind. Many of the critics who hated this film prefer darker, more grimmer stories than those that are on George's mind. Look at this year's Oscar winner, Million Dollar Baby, and even last year's, Return of the King. Both flicks preach to a different audience than the one Crazy George is looking towards. Another thing is that I remember during the hubbub around the re-release of the classic trilogy, a lot of critics in interviews were blaming George for the state of the movie industry for creating the need to produce the next blockbuster. After Star Wars Hollywood began to look more towards making a profit, and making films that would appeal to a larger audience. Also critics tend to get a little more critical towards films that have a lot of hype surrounding them ,and can't wait to get out thier red pens when grading these film.

However, Crazy George is not totally without blame. My main sticking point is that in Jedi we were told that Anakin was found by Kenobi as a starship pilot, instead we got this slave kid from left field, and a sorry , half-@$$ed excuse from the director about 'the power of myth'.:cursing: Throwing out what was previously established cannon.:nonono2: Also his choice of Jacob Lloyd to play a major character like Anakin, was just wrong. I'll take Jar Jar any day of the week over that little accident of a failed profilatic any day. The kid just had no acting talent whatsoever, and I wanted to kick the little ******* everytime he went "Wahoo !":cursing: .

kent

April 5th, 2005, 12:19 PM

I am not a huge SW fan to begin with. They are nice films no doubt (at least the last three episodes). I have yet to see Episode II. Episode I was decent but the only thing I liked was Darth Maul. He should have had a bigger role. I was rooting for him against Quai-Gon and Kenobi. Sadly, they had to kill him off. :(

PyrasTerran

April 5th, 2005, 12:27 PM

Episode II is worth at least one watch.

kaiju fans would enjoy it for having a large array of monsters,

and Yoda. Yoda fighting = the only true reason to watch Episode II. Clone Wars isn't even close in depicting how much *** Yoda kicks.

Darth Reaper

April 5th, 2005, 01:12 PM

I suspect that one of the problems with the prequel trilogy was that before them, George hadn't directed a film himself in awhile. People can get rusty if they stop doing something for awhile.

My main sticking point is that in Jedi we were told that Anakin was found by Kenobi as a starship pilot, instead we got this slave kid from left field, and a sorry , half-@$$ed excuse from the director about 'the power of myth'.- THE ONE AND ONLY

I don't recall Kenobe ever saying that Anakin was a starship pilot when they first met. If I recall correctly, he only said that Anakin was a skilled pilot. And he was. In Episode I, Anakin is a skilled pod-racer pilot. Pod-racers may not be as big or fancy as star ships, but they're still very difficult to pilot, and the fact that Anakin could do it at such a young age is a testament to his skill.

Orga777

April 5th, 2005, 03:16 PM

If I had to put the movies in order from the best to the worst in my opinion, Ep. 1 would only be above Ep. 2. Ep. 2 sucked royal a**. The only good thing was Yoda.:laugh: Ep. 1 was ok, but know where near the calibur of say the origonal 3 movies.

godofPH

April 5th, 2005, 03:49 PM

Well, I happened to LIKE Episode 1 and 2. I also thought Jar Jar was a good character because I am a firm believer that all scifi films need a comic relief character. Now, I'll admit that I didn't like Anakin...but I wouldn't let one character ruin the entire movie for me.

state alchemist

April 5th, 2005, 04:11 PM

george ***** is a no talent hack. the first trilogy was a accidental masterpiece. he didn't even direct 'the empire strikes back' and 'return of the jedi', the two best flicks in the trilogy.

the phantom menace's story sucked. and i agree with others about de-mystifying what the force is being a bad decision. nobody cares about technobabble when it comes to star wars. star wars was never a dune chronicles or star trek. it was good sci-fi fantasy fare.

Gorjirus

April 5th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Ah. The hate. Why? Because George ***** pretty much mutalated the very product that he had created (though it started with the "special edition" Star Wars re-release).

The Force? The all great power? It comes from crap in your BLOOD. Oh your want to be a Jedi? Call 1-800-BEAJEDI for a $10000000000 dollar blood transfusion. Every Billy Bob out there chouldn't be a Jedi. Does that make the Force an STD? Is that why Luke and Le...(and I just forgot how to spell her name) have the Force?

Anakin? Not the regal James Earl Jones Darth Vader, or even the acceptable dead guy at the end of RotJ. Anakin was some whiny, aragant, spoiled, WUSS! I am supposed to believe that that whiney guy that looks like you could make him cry with an insult is the uber evil Darth Vader? Oh, he got angry... Because he had no father figure? Oh father? He DIDN'T have a father. What?!

Padime. One word: pedophile. Anakin was what, 6? Ewwww.....

Obi Wan. With age comes wisdom, I will give him that. He was at least respectable.

That other dude, Qui Jon Gin or something. So, because of his stupid, tradition breaking decision to want to train some dumb kid, he doomed all the Jedi? Oh, lets ignore the guys, you know, are the leaders...

Jar Jar. I am sorry, but I am a huge sci-fi fan and trust me, that wasn't really comedic relief. you get that from the MAIN characters, not by creating a whole character just for that purpose. Though, I guess that just deals with *****' non-imagination?

Now, unto Episode Two...

Anakin.. Already explained...

Padame.. Now while Anakin might be legal, how did he age about, oh, seemingly 10-15+ years while she didn't look like she aged a day? Man, botox must be powerful in a galaxy far, far away...

Obi Wan. We begin to see the old Wan from Episode IV. Actually a good thing...

The Fetts. What? The greatest bounty hunter ever is a stinking clone? The equivalent of Stormtroopers are clones? Why do they sound different? Wouldn't that make the actual Stormtroopers clones as well?

That is all I remember, thankfully...

Oh:

C3PO. Darth Vader CREATED C-3PO? WTF?

R2-D2.

Oh, Darth Vader knew them too, but I guess that all mighty metawhatever doesn't let you recognize droids...

Ah, but that is not all. In the recently released DVD set, ***** screwed the Original Trilogy again by replacing the regal looking spirit of Darth Vader, what he would look like if he had been normal at that age, with the bratty YOUNG Anakin. How does that work? Obi Wan is old, but Vader isn't?

Shame shame shame... And some people say Star Wars is better than Star Trek. At least Rick Berman hasn't screwed us over THAT bad. I mean, he can't touch the old series...

Solar_Behemoth

April 5th, 2005, 07:10 PM

Because the movie sucks. Period.
I wish the older SW films could take a <bleep> on the new ones. Even though afterwards they'd still look the same.

anguirus55

April 5th, 2005, 08:16 PM

Episode I isn't a terrible movie. But it isn't very good, either. Last time I saw it I used my DVD's "skip" button a hell of a lot, to get to the genuinely good action scenes. I'm not going to say it's "not Star Wars" or anything, but it's just not all that good.

Episode II is a damn sight better, nearly as good as Jedi. The original and Empire still stand supreme. RotS, well, time will tell.

anguirus55

April 5th, 2005, 08:23 PM

That's the ronto, and it's only in the ANH special edition and TPM, not RotJ.

Aragorn_Strider22

April 5th, 2005, 10:20 PM

I'd have to say Acklay. It reminded me of a Starcraft Lurker from the getgo.

And as for the Acklay vs. Rancor match, are we talking the half dead child Rancor that Jabba was purposely starving to death or the fully grown Rancor capable of mauling a part AT-ST's without breaking a sweat?

:barugon:

anguirus55

April 5th, 2005, 10:35 PM

Uh...the Jabba one, I guess. Now that you mention it, the rancors from "The Courtship of Princess Leia" could take on all the arena beasts, and maybe King Kong, too.

The RotJ rancor, however, looks neither starved nor juvenile. For all we really know the "Courtship" rancors are a related species.

SuperXAsh

April 5th, 2005, 11:24 PM

fans waited in expectation to see the story of Anakin's fall from grace. In that time they all had built up in thier minds how this flick would go, and for the most part alrready had the whole trilogy completed in their heads. Also in the months before the Ep-1's relase this film was hyped as none had been before. As one fan said about this,"You were expecting Jesus Christ himself to show up in the film ,and come out of the screen." , the way everyone was talking about it. So I think some backlash, and disappointment was to be expected.

My thoughts exactly on where a great deal of this backlash and hatred most likely comes from.

Cause George waited too damn long for this. He waited too long and let a whole buncha fan stories, comics and books and whatnot build up his world and build upon the mythology of Star Wars for him. Hell there were comics and books that went into the pasts of alot of the main characters, did their own take on the history of the Star Wars world in general, and really went outta control in doing so at times. Granted most of them were great stories that took the characters presented in the movie many steps further and developed them, kept the franchise alive as well... but they also doomed the prequels at the same time. Star Wars-mania was at an all time high going into this, and the books (novels, comics, or otherwise) were a BIG undeniable factor in this. Expectations were at a fever-pitch, and nothing short of a perfect miracle would have been able to save the movie. Hell nothing, no movie would have been able to live up to THAT kind of hype.

He should have just made these movies earlier, not waited almost twenty years to do so. THAT or let some other people revise some of the ideas he brang forward before putting it all into motion.

But I will never truelly think of George Lookas as a "No Talent Hack", cause while he may not have directed Empire or Jedi, those were still HIS ideas behind it all. His vision, and his world.

That's my two cents at least.

Melkor

April 5th, 2005, 11:52 PM

The movie was bad because it stank on so many levels. First, there is the obvious choice of Jar Jar Binks. It was a thoroughly unnecessary character, and the squeaky voice and terriby unfunny accent also made my blood boil. The film also focused too much on its special effects-- the old Trilogy was good because of tis storyline; special effects were secondary. Also, the de-mystifying of the Force semmed cheap to me, and utterly nonsensical. But the biggest gripe for me is still the untimely death of Darth Maul. I recall seeing the trailers for this film and getting excited after seeing Maul. . . ***** made a stupid decision by killing him off early. That's just sad.

Peace,

Melkor

:darklord:

SandwormPhish

April 6th, 2005, 03:16 AM

The Force? The all great power? It comes from crap in your BLOOD. Oh your want to be a Jedi? Call 1-800-BEAJEDI for a $10000000000 dollar blood transfusion. Every Billy Bob out there chouldn't be a Jedi. Does that make the Force an STD? Is that why Luke and Le...(and I just forgot how to spell her name) have the Force?

Midis do not create the force. They simply act as a reciever that lets a sentient access it. The higher your midi count the better your 'reception'. That being said they're an unneccesary detail that did nothing to advance the story.

Anakin? Not the regal James Earl Jones Darth Vader, or even the acceptable dead guy at the end of RotJ. Anakin was some whiny, aragant, spoiled, WUSS! I am supposed to believe that that whiney guy that looks like you could make him cry with an insult is the uber evil Darth Vader?

Certainly shows us where Luke gets it from :p

Oh, he got angry... Because he had no father figure? Oh father? He DIDN'T have a father. What?!

Eh? When was that ever given as a reason for his slipping to the dark side?

Padime. One word: pedophile. Anakin was what, 6? Ewwww.....

And when did she show any interest in him romantically at that age? I must have missed that scene.

That other dude, Qui Jon Gin or something. So, because of his stupid, tradition breaking decision to want to train some dumb kid, he doomed all the Jedi? Oh, lets ignore the guys, you know, are the leaders...

Yes because as we know the Jedi can see the future flawlessly at all times. He said he would disobey the council and train Anakin anyway, but he obviously didn't know what was to follow or I think he might have just been a tad less gung-ho about it don't you?

The Fetts. What? The greatest bounty hunter ever is a stinking clone?

So's every identical twin in history, your point? Boba wasn't just another clone like the clonetroopers. He was Jango's clone yes but he had none of the behavior modifications or accelerated growth of the others. Jango raised him like a son and trained him personally in what time they had before his abrupt loss of height. He's genetically identical but since when does being a clone disqualify one from being great at something?

The equivalent of Stormtroopers are clones? Why do they sound different? Wouldn't that make the actual Stormtroopers clones as well?

Remember there's something like 20 odd years or so between the PT and the OT. Plenty of time to start recruiting from the population.. something that was happening before the clone wars ended.

C3PO. Darth Vader CREATED C-3PO? WTF?

Stupid idea yes, though considering we see near identical units wandering around on a number of occasions it's probably rather like someone building a computer from components today.

R2-D2.

Oh, Darth Vader knew them too, but I guess that all mighty metawhatever doesn't let you recognize droids...

Why should he recognize them? They never identified themselves to him in the OT. We see a number of droids that are essentially identical in appearance to 3P0, and R2 was a bog-standard maintenance droid so there's really nothing to distinguish him from any number of other R2 units.

Ah, but that is not all. In the recently released DVD set, ***** screwed the Original Trilogy again by replacing the regal looking spirit of Darth Vader, what he would look like if he had been normal at that age, with the bratty YOUNG Anakin. How does that work? Obi Wan is old, but Vader isn't?

Supposedly the explanation is that hayden is in there because that's the age 'Anakin' died and was replaced by Darth Vader.. I personally think that there was no need to edit the scene but ***** seems to have a monkey on his back about this kind of things.

All that being said there are real problems with both AOTC and TPM.

1.) The villains are wasted. Neither Maul, nor Dooku gets as much screentime as they should and as a result we have no Vader analogue in the PT. No recurring villain aside from Sidious who spends all his time behind the scenes.

2.) Gungans in general and Jar Jar Binks in particular. The racism complaints are stupid but that doesn't prevent the character from sucking.. nor does it keep his entire species from sucking. Small wonder that Durge earned his place as my favorite bounty hunter by gassing the crap out of a bunch of them.

3.) AOTC Romance- You know, I could deal with Anakin and Padme's romantic dialogue being kind of lame. Anakin's been raised as a monk and Padme's probably had very little in the way of romantic experience. That being said Hayden's acting just made it come off like well.. he was reading a script rather than just being a fumbling attempt at wooing.

4.) Child Anakin- ugh.. I despise Jake Lloyd. He annoyed the crap out of me and this was only further enhanced by him somehow flying a fighter into orbit, through a roaring dogfight (where trained pilots are dropping left and right), through the DCS' anti-air fire, flys into the hangar bay, and then scores a direct hit on the ship's reactor ON ACCIDENT!

5.) Obvious Pattern- Am I the only one who sees this? ANH and TPM both have a space battle between a handful of fighters and a much larger, more powerful target and destroy it via chain reaction with a hit to the reactor. ESB and AOTC both have a big ground battle while one side tries to retreat from the planet, and from the ROTS previews we know it's going to have a huge space battle just like ROTJ... thankfully the ewoks appear to have been replaced with the much more threatening wookies :p

6.) jar-jar.. I know I already mentioned him but he's bad enough to be worth mentioning twice.

Gorjirus

April 6th, 2005, 10:42 AM

Midis do not create the force. They simply act as a reciever that lets a sentient access it. The higher your midi count the better your 'reception'.

But the result would be the same.

Eh? When was that ever given as a reason for his slipping to the dark side?

I can't believe I actually remember this (it must have burned itself to my memory), but doesn't the council say that he has much anger and all that jazz inside of him?

And when did she show any interest in him romantically at that age? I must have missed that scene.

Perhaps, I can't remember exactly. But still.....

Yes because as we know the Jedi can see the future flawlessly at all times. He said he would disobey the council and train Anakin anyway, but he obviously didn't know what was to follow or I think he might have just been a tad less gung-ho about it don't you?

Well, since the council warned him about Anakin's anger, and they are the council, you think he might have thought about that and taken it into account.

So's every identical twin in history, your point? Boba wasn't just another clone like the clonetroopers. He was Jango's clone yes but he had none of the behavior modifications or accelerated growth of the others. Jango raised him like a son and trained him personally in what time they had before his abrupt loss of height. He's genetically identical but since when does being a clone disqualify one from being great at something?

But not aon;y that, ***** replaced the roginal Boba Fett voice in the Original Trilogy to that of Jango Fett. And how much training could you fit in to that very small time frame?

And it was just the..very aspect of it.

Why should he recognize them? They never identified themselves to him in the OT. We see a number of droids that are essentially identical in appearance to 3P0, and R2 was a bog-standard maintenance droid so there's really nothing to distinguish him from any number of other R2 units.

The Force? Surely it allows you to sense droids...

And he never saw them? Are you sure?

Cole Deschain

April 6th, 2005, 10:53 AM

Vader saw 3PO, at least.

Cloud city.

On Chewbacca's back.

In pieces.

As for R2, I can't recall... maybe all he did with R2 was blow his head off during the first Death Star assault...

SandwormPhish

April 6th, 2005, 11:23 AM

But the result would be the same.

The point is that the force remains the same. Just we found out how it communicates.

I can't believe I actually remember this (it must have burned itself to my memory), but doesn't the council say that he has much anger and all that jazz inside of him?

It's fear he had but there's no mention of the reason being that he doesn't have a father figure

Perhaps, I can't remember exactly. But still.....

She doesn't show any romantic interest in him as a kid.. later on? Yeah, but before that there's nothing to indicate any kind of romantic interest.

Well, since the council warned him about Anakin's anger, and they are the council, you think he might have thought about that and taken it into account.

Fear, and now feeling fear is a sign one is going to turn into one of the greatest monsters the galaxy will know?

And the reason they gave Qui-Gon for not training him was his age not any emotions he might have.

But not aon;y that, ***** replaced the roginal Boba Fett voice in the Original Trilogy to that of Jango Fett. And how much training could you fit in to that very small time frame?

10 years isn't that small a time frame when you consider the amount of time military training actually takes. The Navy Seal training program only lasts a mere 25 weeks.

Oh and I agree that *****' constant retconning is irritating but that's no reason to bash on Fett.

The Force? Surely it allows you to sense droids...

The Force didn't even tell Vader who Luke was. He didn't know until he found out that the pilot who took out hte Death Star was named Skywalker, why should it help him identify a droid?

And he never saw them? Are you sure?

Didn't say he never saw them, I said they never identified themselves to him, and we've seen protocol droids just like 3P0 on several occasions, and as I said R2-D2 was a maintenance droid on a starship so there's no reason to believe there aren't more of him running around all over.

Darth Reaper

April 6th, 2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:
I can't believe I actually remember this (it must have burned itself to my memory), but doesn't the council say that he has much anger and all that jazz inside of him?

It's fear he had but there's no mention of the reason being that he doesn't have a father figure- SandwormPhish

And, I'd say that Anakin's fear was only natural. His entire life was changing right before his eyes. He left his mother, life, homeworld behind for a new home and life that were very alien to him. And, he was in the presence of a group of authority figures who didn't seem to think too highly of him. This is alot for a little kid to have to deal with all at once.

That other dude, Qui Jon Gin or something. So, because of his stupid, tradition breaking decision to want to train some dumb kid, he doomed all the Jedi? Oh, lets ignore the guys, you know, are the leaders...- Gorjirus

Qui-Gon Jin believed in the prophecy, and he believed that Anakin was the chosen one who would bring balance to The Force. So, it would be imperative for the Jedi to teach him, so that he could fulfill his destiny.

Besides, ultimately Anakin did bring balance to The Force.

Didn't say he never saw them, I said they never identified themselves to him, and we've seen protocol droids just like 3P0 on several occasions, and as I said R2-D2 was a maintenance droid on a starship so there's no reason to believe there aren't more of him running around all over.- SandwormPhish

Here's an interesting fact. There's a comic book story where Darth Vader is shown the remains of C-3PO after he was blasted in THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. He examines them and remembers 3PO. According to this story, it was Vader who chose to have 3PO's remains given back to Chewbacca, rather than simply having them melted down.

Beyond that, I agree with you. Protocal droids, and maintanence droids are a dime a dozen. If you've seen one, there's a good chance that you've seen them all. Besides, what does Vader care about a couple of droids, even one that he built himself?

But the biggest gripe for me is still the untimely death of Darth Maul. I recall seeing the trailers for this film and getting excited after seeing Maul. . . ***** made a stupid decision by killing him off early. That's just sad.- Melkor

I do agree with this a bit. I think it would have been more satisfying to see Anakin confront Maul during REVENGE OF THE SITH. And, have Darth Maul be the one who cuts off Anakin's arm in Episode II. They could have built him up as the bane of Anakin's existence over the course of the prequels. It would have been interesting to see him get his comeupons in Episode III at Anakin's hands after everything that he would have done (killing Qui-Gon Jin, taking Anakiin's arm, threatening The Republic), all the while knowing that it would lead Anakin even further towards The Dark Side of The Force himself.

However, Count Dooku does play an important role in the story of Anakin Skywalker (which is ultimately what the STAR WARS movies are all about). He didn't start out as a Sith like Darth Maul and Darth Sidious. He was a Jedi who changed sides. He shows that a Jedi can be lured to The Dark Side; that they aren't above temptation and falling from grace. It shows that Anakin's fall is not unusual. It's happened before and it can happen again.

Gorjirus

April 6th, 2005, 02:45 PM

10 years isn't that small a time frame when you consider the amount of time military training actually takes.

It was ten years? My bad, I thought it was less than that. But also, NAVY SEALS aren't little kids either.

The Force didn't even tell Vader who Luke was.

It told him about Obi Wan.

we've seen protocol droids just like 3P0 on several occasions

But have we seen a gold one?

Besides, what does Vader care about a couple of droids, even one that he built himself?

Why? Weren't they LOOKING for those droids in the beggining of the film?

Orga777

April 6th, 2005, 03:29 PM

But have we seen a gold one? ?

C3Po didn't start out as gold though. Even in AOTC he was more white than gold.

Why? Weren't they LOOKING for those droids in the beggining of the film?

No they were looking for Princess Lea.

Gorjirus

April 6th, 2005, 03:47 PM

On Tatooine, the Stormtroopers were under orders to find the droids.

Orga777

April 6th, 2005, 03:51 PM

Ah thats right. But I don't think Vader knew that they were R2-D2 and C-3PO.

Gorjirus

April 6th, 2005, 03:55 PM

Well, you have to think, how would they know WHICH droids were which? They were on a planet with ALOT of droids. There had to be some identification. They wiped out that little village trying to find the droids, and it had droids in it.

Orga777

April 6th, 2005, 04:15 PM

Very nice point you bring up. I would have to watch it again though to be certain, I haven't seen it in a while.

Orga777

April 6th, 2005, 05:27 PM

I like the Acklay is the best. It was the one that survived the longest too.:laugh:

Darth Reaper

April 6th, 2005, 05:39 PM

Why? Weren't they LOOKING for those droids in the beggining of the film?- Gorjirus

Only because they had something that The Empire wanted back, the plans for the first Death Star. By THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, The Empire wasn't looking for the droids any more. They were of no concern to them.

Maybe, Vader did recognize C-3PO and R2-D2 at some point in the OT, and he just didn't care. At best, they would be reminders of his old life, something that he didn't care to think about any more. At worst, they were completly irrelevant to him. They're machines, tools, nothing more, and certainly not worth getting worked up over.

Gorjirus

April 6th, 2005, 05:49 PM

Only because they had something that The Empire wanted back, the plans for the first Death Star. By THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, The Empire wasn't looking for the droids any more. They were of no concern to them.

Yes, because of their failure to find them, the Death Star was destroyed.

But it doesn't relly matter, I just thought that it was really stupid. Eh.

SandwormPhish

April 6th, 2005, 07:06 PM

It was ten years? My bad, I thought it was less than that. But also, NAVY SEALS aren't little kids either.

They aren't mandalorians or raised to be warriors from childhood either.

It told him about Obi Wan.

Indeed it did. But Obi-wan is a Jedi so his force signature would be rather distinctive (that same signature is one of the reasons Yoda was hanging out on Dagobah.. he was using the leftover darkside energy in that cave to hide himself). Plus IIRC in a few of the books it's mentioned that droids don't have a specific force sig. They can still be sensed but it's not going to tell you a droid's name.

But have we seen a gold one?

The gold plating was something bought and placed on threepio. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that there isn't anyone else around with the cash to afford to gold-plate their droid. Indeed considering the pompous attitude of your typical imperial moff it's almost assured.

Why? Weren't they LOOKING for those droids in the beggining of the film?

They were looking for two droids. They had no idea that it was 3P0 and R2 that had the plans, just that 2 droids were fired off of the Tantive in an escape pod and they probably had the DS plans in their memory.

Well, you have to think, how would they know WHICH droids were which? They were on a planet with ALOT of droids. There had to be some identification. They wiped out that little village trying to find the droids, and it had droids in it.

Or they might have just killed all the jawas and checked the memory of each droid. I doubt the plans of a 160 kilometer diameter battle station are going to take up an insignificant amount of memory.

anguirus55

April 6th, 2005, 07:26 PM

SandwormPhish's post was great, but I do think I should add that according to GL, all the stormies are clones. Many are of the Jango lineage (the one that bangs his head in ANH is an example) but there are other clone templates as well by this time (different heights, etc).

And to those who think Vader would recognize the droids...in the prequels droids that look nearly identical to R2 and 3PO are repeatedly shown prominently. The point has been delivered with a five-pound pickaxe...the audience may like the droids, but to most of the characters they're background noise. Droids like 3PO and R2 are a dime a dozen.

WitchKing667

April 6th, 2005, 11:12 PM

The prequels are a vast dissapointment, though I for one think Episode II was better than Episode I, which was a ******* children's film. However, L-u-c-a-s' poor direction and Hayden Christensen's as*-trocious acting really ruin a film which would probably be quite good in the hand's of another director with L-u-c-a-s just overseeing it like he did with Empire and Jedi.
And who knows about Revenge of the Sith. The trailers look quite good, that's for sure, but then again, Attack of the Clones had a good trailer as well. It certainly will be darker and L-u-c-a-s' world is at it's best at it's darkest. I certainly can't wait to see Anakin's nasty transformation into Vader (the picture's I've seen of it are quite disturbing, he really gets ****ed up).

Alien-G

April 7th, 2005, 08:26 PM

I love the Star Wars films, it's kinda easy to catch my interest when it comes to movies, and I love all the Star Wars films, even the new ones

Alien-G

April 7th, 2005, 08:29 PM

One thing I don't understand is why C3PO and R2-D2 don't recognize the name of Skywalker at all in the older films

Figment

April 7th, 2005, 08:53 PM

Jar Jar, bathroom humor, and the whole midi-chlorian bullshit. That is what's wrong with Episode 1, but otherwise its okay. Well.... tolerable anyway.
Episode 2 was excellent save for Anakin showing us where Luke inherited his whininess and the crappy romantic subplot with Anakin and Padme.

THE ONE AND ONLY

April 7th, 2005, 09:32 PM

I don't know why the midi-chlorians seem to set off so many fans like it does. The idea of something that enables people to determine if a canidate is actually a Jedi or not, without being a Jedi, didn't come totally out of left field for me when it was done in Ep. 1. Anyone here who read Kevin Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy in the first volume a demolition team discovered the remains of an old Imperial facility which contained detecting equipment designed to both determine whether a person of intrest was Jedi, and how powerful a Jedi they were if they came up positive. Luke and co. used this device in screening potential recruits to his academy throughout the Trilogy's first novel, Jedi Search. Now before anyone says,"They didn't mention any midi-chlorians in the novel.", perhaps because no one outside either the Jedi or Sith knew about them ,and kept them secret so non-Jedi wouldn't knw what to look for to find potential Jedi to exploit, or kill. The detectors could've been designed to monitor for midi-chlorians, and measure the amounts of them in if any, but the Empreor when developing the detector, never told the Imperials conducting the purges what the detectors were measuring in thier operation. Just that the devices detected Jedi, nothing more, nothing less.

Gorjirus

April 7th, 2005, 09:36 PM

But don't forget that the books are non-cannon. But even with that, the Force was still mystic in nature, something unatural. Not something that is in your blood.

THE ONE AND ONLY

April 7th, 2005, 10:09 PM

^But when exactly has the Force been pinned down as something mystical, completly outside of science in the films ? Its never really been defined in the "cannon" as such. Its been said thatn it connects everything in the universe, making its ound like any smhoe can use it, but there are those whose bloodlines, families it runs strong in. Thus establishing that there is a genetic, physical mechanism to being able to use it.

Cole Deschain

April 7th, 2005, 10:22 PM

SandwormPhish

April 8th, 2005, 04:00 AM

But don't forget that the books are non-cannon. But even with that, the Force was still mystic in nature, something unatural. Not something that is in your blood.

Actually they are, to an extent-

Wikipedia-
G-canon is absolute canon; the movies, the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays and the Star Wars DK "Cross Sections", "Visual Dictionaries", and "Inside The Worlds Of" books based on the movies. G-canon always overides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction.

C-canon is pretty much everything in the Expanded Universe; SW books, comics, and games. Games are a special case as generally only the stories are C-canon while things like stats and gameplay are N-canon.

S-canon is "secondary" canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

N-canon is "non-canon". What-if stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), game stats, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered canon by *****film.

So the books count as canon except on issues where they contradict G-canon material.

I can dig out the exact statement if that isn't good enough for you.

SandwormPhish

April 8th, 2005, 04:01 AM

One thing I don't understand is why C3PO and R2-D2 don't recognize the name of Skywalker at all in the older films

To explain would require spoilers for Episode 3. There is a stated reason though.

Darth Reaper

April 8th, 2005, 01:41 PM

Sorry, but there's a difference between

"the Force is an energy field generated by all living things. It surrounds us and binds us, and holds the universe together" and "here's some microbes in your blood, they allow you to manipulate the Force, and since you were a virgin conception, you're like, the Allmighty, Dude."

Think.

If it were simply a matter of manipulating ambient energy via microbes in your bloodstream, there would be no "light side/dark side" split. Your personality does not effect our eye color, nor does it determine whether you have your mother or your father's face.

And personality has everything to do with whether a Force-adept goes Light or Dark.- Cole Deschain

Actually, whethor or not a person gives into temptation is what determines whether or not they choose The Light Side or The Dark Side. The Dark Side of the Force tempts all who try to wield The Force. Some choose to give in to temptation and some don't.

And, you're still missing the point. The Force is still The Force, and it still operates the way it always has. Midichlorians are simply the medium through which we communicte with The Force.

But even with that, the Force was still mystic in nature, something unatural. Not something that is in your blood.- Gorjirus

Actually, they've said before that The Force is natural. In SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE, they say that The Force is natural even though it can feel like magic.

And, why shouldn't The Force be natural? Life creates it and makes it grow, and it in turn holds the universe together. That sounds to me like The Force is a part of nature too.

But, just because The Force is natural, doesn't have to make it any less potent. It's the stuff that holds the universe together. That's some powerful mojo. Being natural doesn't make it weak.

Cole Deschain

April 8th, 2005, 04:15 PM

Please. The Force is described (rather narrowly, in my cynical assessment) as having two sides- Light and Dark. Now, so far, your explanantion works. People choose their fate. But consider the physiological changes (some would say damage) wrought by excessive use of of and dependence upon the Dark Side. That's ardly the result of simple personality flaws and giving in to temptation.

And also, if it's a purely biological phenomen, why all the religious trappings? People are stupid and easily led, but the whole deification of the force is very much something in the common man's understanding of it. Unless, of course, you mean that the jedi want to keep the masses ignorant of the truth... which is sinister in the extreme. Maybe I'll just go play with those nice Mandalorian chaps over there...

As to the force being "natural"- I'm sorry, but shooting lightning out of your fingertips (Palpatine, for example) (or, for that matter, sound in space) is anything BUT natural. ***** clearly doesn't give a damn about "natural." He wanted a rip-roaring space opera with a Black Knight and Evil Wizard as the primary antagonists, and lots of things going boom. The Force, when presented as mystical, fit right in.

Think.

If it's just these stupid microbes, wouldn't every rich fat cat (and don't give me that "it's a secret" garbage either. Just try to keep a secret from an obsessed, insanely wealthy guy who wants more power, and isn't too picky about his methods. Especially if you're as "public" as the Jedi were in the Old Republic. If all else fails, he'll just torture his way up the food chain until somebody tells him what's going on) have paid good money to, say, Mandalorians, to have a "Midichlorain scanner" captured?

After which they'd go looking for suitable candidates for transfusions.

The Force, after all, doesn't seem to care who wields it (well, except for Anakin "I'm the Force Messiah!" Skywalker).

That, in the end, may be the absolute worst part...

They have prophecies associated with things like Anakin's potential (although I should mention that Obi-Wan merely said Anakin was "strong" in the force, not "the strongest we'd ever seen"), and while the Force seems to give some sort of precognitive sensitivity, a "prophecy" would indicate that the force is manipulating events on its own.

anguirus55

April 9th, 2005, 09:28 PM

I'm ripping off Pyras. He's picking your favorite villain, now what's your favorite peon?

I have to go with the Droideka. Awesome sound effects and animation on these guys. Nothing cooler than seeing Jedi run like little girls from a wheel with guns on it. :darklord:

Paulzilla

April 9th, 2005, 09:42 PM

OUT OF ALL OF THEM I WOULD SO PICK THE STORMTROOPERS!!!! I DON'T CARE THAT THEY AREN'T ROBOTS OR ANYTHING! THEY ARE SO AWESOME! sUITS, WEAPONS, EVERYTHING! TOTALLY!
________
Alfredo Ferrari (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Alfredo_Ferrari)

anguirus55

April 9th, 2005, 09:52 PM

Yeah, but they can't aim for crap. :p Only guys they can beat are Alderaanians and Battle Droids.

They have great costumes and awesome ships though. :D

Cole Deschain

April 10th, 2005, 06:02 AM

Imperial Naval Trooper.

Did those guys ever kill anything?!

state alchemist

April 10th, 2005, 09:12 AM

not sure what it's called but those droids that roll around and have that blue force field.

anguirus55

April 10th, 2005, 09:30 AM

^ Those are droidekas. Someone agrees with me!

And the naval troopers might have picked off a few Rebels and Ewoks on Endor, but we never see it. They are good at having creepy voices and dragging bodies around, though. :)

I mean, you have to hand it to all these guys. The only ones I've seen so much as taking cover in the face of withering fire are the Naboo and the Rebels. Such blind loyalty...

Orga777

April 10th, 2005, 04:54 PM

Destroyer Droids are the best! Those things are so nasty.:darklord:

SandwormPhish

April 11th, 2005, 03:33 AM

Droidekas are cool and have the General Greivous seal of approval..

On the other hand both Super Battledroids and IG-100 magnaguards have a tendency towards smashing those stupid, pathetic Baktoid B1s from TPM so that gives them definite points.

Aw hell I'll vote for the Magnaguards. Jedi consider them worse than Destroyers so that puts them ahead :)

anguirus55

April 15th, 2005, 08:22 PM

Well, thet Droideka seems to have a commanding lead in the coolness sweepstakes. It also breaks down: Seperatists 5, Empire 3. Anyone else want to chime in?

Husnock

April 18th, 2005, 05:07 PM

Droidekas rule. I don't care whether the Jedi consider the Magnaguards scarier. :p

The only time I've ever seen the MGs in action is that one story in Visionaries where Grievous goes bezerk (Dooku calls him a droid) and smashes all of 'em. "I... Am... Not... A DROID!!! I am General Grievous!"

Of course, I really have to give the ARC troopers second place. Any of 'em, it doesn't matter which one. They're all basically the same guy.

And I like the stormtroopers too. Espceially those "hazardous environment" variants (Radtroopers?). They have the coolest armor.

SandwormPhish

April 18th, 2005, 09:29 PM

That's because we're talking Grievous here. But they can still fight all nasty like.

Morgoth

May 27th, 2005, 12:50 AM

Here you go, vermin. A thread all your own to talk about that bullshit. I want no other threads opened up on the subject of the prequels, Star Wars or what colour Whiney Suck Brat's lightsaber is. If it has to do with ***** and his rotting excuse for a franchise, you talk about it here. Otherwise me and General Loan will have this thing shut down quicker than you can say 'bantha podo'.

Don't worry, I won't be back in this thread. It is dead to me.

MouthForWar

May 27th, 2005, 01:41 AM

Its about damn time. Although the post was a bit harsh (yet friggin hilarious), its about time. I say take it a step further and combine the threads and make it one sticky.

And yeah NO MORE STAR WARS THREADS! STOP!

SandwormPhish

May 27th, 2005, 02:01 AM

http://impstherelentless.com/tek9.asp?pg=chapter1_download

Another fanfilm though with a few plusses that put it above the average one..

1.) It's by the same group who did TROOPS
2.) It's funny.
3.) Distinct lack of out of shape Jedi or any Jedi at all come to think of it.

Stormtrooper to Scouttrooper: "Get out of my face tree-dodger."

Raptor

May 27th, 2005, 02:45 AM

I say take it a step further and combine the threads and make it one sticky.

And yeah NO MORE STAR WARS THREADS! STOP!Oooooh! :crazy: That would be a biggie. We will have to study the implications of such an action in relation to its possible effects on the dynamic balance of the forum. I believe there would be a serious disruption in the very fabric of the space/time continuum myself.

Cole Deschain

May 27th, 2005, 03:42 AM

On the other hand, given how damned many of the bloody things have popped up lately, I think a sort of limiting action like this is a good idea.

Jet Jaguar

May 27th, 2005, 07:17 PM

Or limit it to NONE
This ain't no ***** Board ya know

Silversearchlight

May 27th, 2005, 07:56 PM

About All the Star Wars threads: "Wipe them OUT!! , WiIPE THEM ALL OUT!!!! ":cursing:

Gorjirus

May 27th, 2005, 08:08 PM

So if any Star Wars topic can be put here, does that include Star Trek vs Star Wars, or is that still considered a Fantasy Battlezone item, and thus is not legal?

anguirus55

May 27th, 2005, 08:14 PM

Good! I asked for this awhile back.

IT'S GEEKOUT TIME

Wiz

May 28th, 2005, 11:48 AM

I would like to take this moment to say: I saw episode III and I thought it kicked butt! It was constant action, and I loved how it showed the transformation of Anakin to the dark side. It was great!

godofPH

May 28th, 2005, 11:57 AM

http://us.imdb.com/chart/top

Look at number #193

PyrasTerran

May 28th, 2005, 12:03 PM

Awsome. All those SW threads coming in all at once were getting annoying.

Mothraleo

May 28th, 2005, 12:34 PM

http://us.imdb.com/chart/top

Look at number #193

The only thing I can say to that is "MEH!", considering that King Kong (33) is far behind it at number 245 of 250.

godofPH

May 28th, 2005, 12:50 PM

The only thing I can say to that is "MEH!", considering that King Kong (33) is far behind it at number 245 of 250.

I only posted that link to make the SW-haters mad.

Kaiser Kronos

May 28th, 2005, 01:33 PM

Yer doin' a good job of it too.
(Tony Derouen.)

Cole Deschain

May 28th, 2005, 03:40 PM

I would like to take this moment to say: I saw episode III and I thought it kicked butt! It was constant action, and I loved how it showed the transformation of Anakin to the dark side. It was great!

As someone who just recently sat through this... film...

1) The script stank. Mace Windu would have been better off channeling Samuel L. Jackson's performance form Pulp Fiction.

"Do you know what the Republic LOOKS LIKE?! DOES IT LOOK LIKE A <censored>?"

Or, of course, the Ezekiel 25:17 speech.

Because Samuel L couldn't sell the lines he got, and came off sounding wooden. That's what we call a bad thing.

Give the love scenes dialogue that doesn't sound like it was written by some machine, please.

2) Anakin has no backbone. After a few slip-ups (like, say, his massacre of an entire community of sentient beings), he jumps into the dark side with both feet, no hesitation, and seems to buy Palpatine's arguments without even a thought. Spineless wimp.

3) The Jedi are pansies. "Hrrrrm, my troops have turned on me... should I use a Force-assisted leap to try and escape? Nah. Should I try to cloud their minds and slip away? Of course not. I'll stand and fight an entire army." Morons.

4) Visually? Quite stunning. Truly. Lots of good shiny bits and things going boom.

5) Alec Guiness II turned in the only performance that didn't make my skull hurt as my brain tried to batter its way out and escape. Ewan McGregor gets to live.

6) The lightsaber duels contained more stupid, usesless flourishes, idiotic pose-striking and moves that do not work than any previous movie. Ouch.

Overall? 3 out of 5. It would have been 2, but knowing that most if not all of the characters I just watched lurch around mindlessly die within the next three movies soothes my wrath.

anguirus55

May 28th, 2005, 04:10 PM

3) The Jedi are pansies. "Hrrrrm, my troops have turned on me... should I use a Force-assisted leap to try and escape? Nah. Should I try to cloud their minds and slip away? Of course not. I'll stand and fight an entire army." Morons.

Because this can be done so easily when one is being shot in the back, yes?

Only Ki-Adi-Mundi MIGHT have had time to do this, and the troops were still firing before he fully realized what was going on. Aayla Secura never had a chance, Plo Koon was hit by ships, and Stass Allie never even knew what hit her.

Cole Deschain

May 28th, 2005, 04:12 PM

Because this can be done so easily when one is being shot in the back, yes?

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought the Forcve provided a sensitivity to ongoing events.

By your logic, Yoda, who was in his own command post and not in battle, should have been hashed.

Only Ki-Adi-Mundi MIGHT have had time to do this, and the troops were still firing before he fully realized what was going on. Aayla Secura never had a chance, Plo Koon was hit by ships, and Stass Allie never even knew what hit her.

Woo-hoo. 3 out of how many? It was a pitiful showing.

Solar_Behemoth

May 28th, 2005, 06:06 PM

Well I belong in this thread quite well.

http://us.imdb.com/chart/top

Look at number #193

Not surprising.
If you check out that list frequently (like I do), you'll see that the newly released films are always on there no matter how sucky they are. LOL @ The Untouchables only making it to 250....

While I found Sith fun to watch, it definitely doesn't deserve to stay on that list, and it probably won't.

Saruman

May 28th, 2005, 06:33 PM

http://us.imdb.com/chart/top

Look at number #193

I'll take this list over the IMDB one.

http://www.time.com/time/2005/100movies/the_complete_list.html

anguirus55

May 28th, 2005, 07:32 PM

^ So would I.

Woo-hoo. 3 out of how many? It was a pitiful showing.

Three out of...three. We only see the Jedi I mentioned in the Order 66 montage, aside from the padawans in the Temple, all of whom over the age of ten put up a terrific fight.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought the Forcve provided a sensitivity to ongoing events.

While the suddeness of it worked well enough for me, apparently the novel has an ADDITIONAL explanation. The clones carried out the orders so dispassionately and without anger that most of the Jedi didn't even get a flicker of premonition. Yoda had enough warning because he picked up on the disturbance in the Force and, at the time, was surrounded by Wookiees and not clones.

I think it's very easy to suggest solutions to commanders who are suddenly surrounded by hostile troops, and harder to implement them. Especially since these Jedi had learned to rely on their troops over the past three years of fighting.

There are more worthwhile things to nitpick in the movie than this. I didn't even bother to dispute you on the acting...it worked for me but I wasn't expecting much.

Cookson

May 28th, 2005, 08:43 PM

Well I would like to say that I watched Episode III yesterday FINALLY and it was a great film. The music, the characters........everything fit perfect with the beginning of Episode 4. Am not going to go into any deap discussion about why I liked this film because all you need to know is that I liked it.

Anway I watched episode 4,5,6 today(yeah I stayed home all day) and I love those movies still(especially remastered). For a long time I didnt really care about the Star Wars franchise but recently have respected it and I think it is great.

EternalMothra

May 28th, 2005, 09:23 PM

Same here Cookson, I sort of left Star Wars for awhile until I watched the most recent movie. I loved it. I think some people like to negatively over-exaggerate the quality of the film.

kent

May 28th, 2005, 10:10 PM

I think some people like to negatively over-exaggerate the quality of the film.

That could be a possibility. Many hated the first two so much they may have had the mindset to hate this one no matter what or came in expecting to hate it from the start.

SandwormPhish

May 28th, 2005, 10:37 PM

Woo-hoo. 3 out of how many? It was a pitiful showing.

Then on top of that there's that whole clouding of their perceptions by the Dark side, coupled with the fact that the clones had no malicious intent, they were simply following orders with no emotional investment in it whatsoever. And furthermore the Jedi are all scattered across the galaxy, isolated, and surrounded by an army of clone troops each and all the things that entails (namely armor, air, artillery, and orbital support).

Goji Son

May 29th, 2005, 12:17 AM

I'll take this list over the IMDB one.

http://www.time.com/time/2005/100movies/the_complete_list.html

IMDB is full of **** when it comes to ranking as there are many films better than Shawshank Redemption and The Godfather (the number one film) that are obscure to the American masses that it isn't fair to judge. (example: anything by Kurosawa, Bergman, Tartovsky, Fellini, Hitchcock, Leone etc. etc.)

Saruman

May 29th, 2005, 12:40 AM

Then on top of that there's that whole clouding of their perceptions by the Dark side, coupled with the fact that the clones had no malicious intent, they were simply following orders with no emotional investment in it whatsoever. And furthermore the Jedi are all scattered across the galaxy, isolated, and surrounded by an army of clone troops each and all the things that entails (namely armor, air, artillery, and orbital support).

But isn't a Jedi supposed to be equal to an army?;) And before you say they were suprised, one of them was suprised, but they missed and he had plenty of time to react, but he still did absolutely nothing to even defend himself. Suddenly he goes from blocking any and all energy blasts to not being able to block even a few? Sorry but that was just way to lame.

Oh and incase anyone missed it, tonight(Saturday) on Bravo they ran 3 shows ranking the top 20 Heroes, Vixens and Villians of all time.

Vader of course toped the list of Villians, but that wasn't the point of this.

Leia was on the Vixens list, I don't recall her number. But one of the people on the show made a really great comment that is actually so very true. That being that out of all the people in Star Wars that are supposed to be such great fighters and what not, Leia out of them all is the only one that never seems to miss when she fires an energy weapon. Then of course they go through a short highlight reel of her blasting anyone and everyone, it was pretty funny.

Cole Deschain

May 29th, 2005, 04:38 AM

Then on top of that there's that whole clouding of their perceptions by the Dark side

Palpatine was powerful, but come on. The poor saps at the temple I can buy... everybody else? If they were so suspicious of the Chancellor (which they were- Windu was going to confront him even before the whole "he's a Sith!" thing), why'd they get caught with their pants so totally around their ankles?

coupled with the fact that the clones had no malicious intent, they were simply following orders with no emotional investment in it whatsoever.

Emotion is not a requirement for malice. Certainly, no Jedi ever seemed caught as off-guard by attacking droids... which have no more "emotions" than any clone.

And furthermore the Jedi are all scattered across the galaxy, isolated, and surrounded by an army of clone troops each and all the things that entails (namely armor, air, artillery, and orbital support).

So hide. (Which Yoda did.) Run. (Which Yoda did.) Let them assume they;ve killed you (Which Obi-Wan inadvertantly did). Honestly, the Jedi Council, made up of supposed "Masters" displayed about as much sensitivity to their surroundings as a rock. Oh yes, except for the All-High Yoda, who cannot make a mistake.

Cole Deschain

May 29th, 2005, 04:40 AM

That could be a possibility. Many hated the first two so much they may have had the mindset to hate this one no matter what or came in expecting to hate it from the start.

Sorry, but not in my case.

People whose opinions I respect recommended the movie to me. I was really prepared for it to be at least tolerable. But I swear to god, I think the Phantom Menace had better dialogue. Yes. You may quote me on that.

SandwormPhish

May 29th, 2005, 05:33 AM

Palpatine was powerful, but come on. The poor saps at the temple I can buy... everybody else? If they were so suspicious of the Chancellor (which they were- Windu was going to confront him even before the whole "he's a Sith!" thing), why'd they get caught with their pants so totally around their ankles?

It wasn't just palpy doing the clouding. The war itself further clouded the Jedi's perceptions as per the Episode 3 novelization.

Here's the full quote-

ROTS: 348-349
It's not a thrilling climax; it's not the culmination of an epic struggle. Just the opposite, in fact. The Clone Wars were never an epic struggle. They were never intended to be.

What is happening right now is why the Clone Wars were fought in the first place. It is their reason for existence.The Clone Wars have always been, in and of themselves, from their very inception, the revenge of the Sith.

They were irresistible bait. They took place in remote locations, on planets that belonged, primarily, to "somebody elses". They were fought by expendable proxies. And they were constructed as a win-win situation.

The Clone Wars were the perfect Jedi trap.

By fighting at all, the Jedi lost.

With the Jedi Order overextended, spread thin across the galaxy, each Jedi is alone, surrounded only by whatever troops he, she or it commands. War itself pours darkness into the Force, deepening the cloud that limits Jedi perception. And the clones have no malice, no hatred, not the slightest ill intent that might give warning. They are only following orders.

In this case, Order Sixty-Six.

Hold out blasters appear in clone hands. ARC-170s drop back onto the tails of Jedi starfighters. AT-STs swivel their guns. Turrets on hovertanks swung silently.

Clones open fire, and Jedi die.

All across the galaxy. All at once.

Jedi die.

Emotion is not a requirement for malice. Certainly, no Jedi ever seemed caught as off-guard by attacking droids... which have no more "emotions" than any clone.

Some of their behavior would indicate otherwise, but I digress the quote above seems to indicate otherwise, plus it's not the sole factor in limiting the Jedi's perception.

So hide. (Which Yoda did.) Run. (Which Yoda did.)

Yoda also got the luck of the draw. He was alone with his clone commander and a single other trooper instead of surrounded like many other Jedi were. Furthermore it's fairly obvious he got some measure of advance warning since he felt the other Jedi across the galaxy biting it. Most of the other Jedi weren't that lucky due to their tendency to lead from the front and basically found both sides shooting at them all the sudden. And then there's the little matter of the wookies helping him escape.

Let them assume they;ve killed you (Which Obi-Wan inadvertantly did). Honestly, the Jedi Council, made up of supposed "Masters" displayed about as much sensitivity to their surroundings as a rock. Oh yes, except for the All-High Yoda, who cannot make a mistake.

Again, Yoda and Obi-wan both essentially survived by luck. Jedi are powerful warriors but that fancy lightsaber can only be in one place at a time and AOTC made it abundantly clear that you can bring a Jedi down by the simple expedient of throwing too many shots for them to stop.

Cole Deschain

May 29th, 2005, 04:54 PM

It wasn't just palpy doing the clouding. The war itself further clouded the Jedi's perceptions as per the Episode 3 novelization.

In that case, they were fools. Why lead an army inot a war for a man you do not trust if it will dull your senses. Certainly, why send the bulk of your strength out to be diffused, when the army does the bulk of the actual fighting?

Some of their behavior would indicate otherwise, but I digress the quote above seems to indicate otherwise, plus it's not the sole factor in limiting the Jedi's perception.

No. Blind trust of someone they supposedly don't trust did its share of limitation.

Gojira2000

May 29th, 2005, 05:08 PM

So if any Star Wars topic can be put here, does that include Star Trek vs Star Wars, or is that still considered a Fantasy Battlezone item, and thus is not legal?
__________________
Just what are you trying to say about my thread? Huh?! :laugh: (just kidding)

I too was getting a little sick of SW thread after SW thread being posted. But anyway, back to the conversation!

anguirus55

May 29th, 2005, 05:10 PM

In that case, they were fools.

Ultimately, yes. The Jedi fall because they are arrogant.

The individual Jedi put themselves in a situation where they just plain did not have much of a chance. AotC establishes that Jedi can and do get taken out by blasters. Sith shows us the logical conclusion.

20,000 Jedi were never in any way equal to a billions-strong army. They are leaders, they are spies, they are tough to kill, but they are not and never were invincible. The myth of Jedi infallibility comes from the individual viwer. Not only is it not implied in the films, it is directly contradicted.

Gojira2000

May 29th, 2005, 05:13 PM

Just what are you trying to say about my thread? Huh?! (just kidding)

I too was getting a little sick of SW thread after SW thread being posted. But anyway, back to the conversation!
Oh wait; I started the "Star Trek or Star Wars thread, not the Star Trek vs Star Wars one; my mistake.:blush:

Zeptron

May 29th, 2005, 06:01 PM

But isn't a Jedi supposed to be equal to an army? And before you say they were suprised, one of them was suprised, but they missed, and he had plenty of time to react, but he still did absolutely nothing to even defend himself. Suddenly he goes from blocking any and all energy blasts to not being able to block even a few? Sorry, but that was just way to lame.

Remember what Han said: "Good against droids is one thing; good against the living, that's another." ;)

And besides, wouldn't you be utterly shocked if the soldiers you had fought alongside just started firing at you in the middle of a battle? I know I would be.

Cookson

May 29th, 2005, 06:06 PM

And besides, wouldn't you be utterly shocked if the soldiers you had fought alongside just started firing at you in the middle of a battle? I know I would be.

When the soldiers(clones) started attacking the JEDI that was really surprising.....I did kinda expect to happen but it came out of nowhere......A great 5 minutes in the film(time could have been less...I dont remember).

My favorite scene in "Return of the Jedi" is when the Emperor is killing Luke and Darth Vader suddenly picks up the Emperor and throws him :laugh: . But seriously it was awesome when Darth Vader(Anakin) realised what he was doing and came back.........Even though he died.

SandwormPhish

May 29th, 2005, 10:02 PM

In that case, they were fools. Why lead an army inot a war for a man you do not trust if it will dull your senses. Certainly, why send the bulk of your strength out to be diffused, when the army does the bulk of the actual fighting?

Like the quote said, by fighting at all they lost. Unfortunately the Jedi are ultimately loyal to the republic. When the CIS threatened that they really didn't have any choice but to move to protect it. And the Jedi were spread all across the galaxy because Palpy essentially rigged it so they would be. There's fighting all over the galaxy in hundreds of brushfire wars with new battlefronts springing up all the time, and only so many Jedi to go around. Remember most of the places that had private armies of their own before the clone wars ended up joining the CIS.. there was nobody to lead the clone army when the war started except for the Jedi.. and they paid for it to. First with the losses on Geonosis, and then the further losses both through warfare and through the predations of Dooku (who turned a number of Jedi to the darkside), Ventress, Durge, and Grievous.

Remember Palpatine is running both sides of the war.. which means he can arrange things like 'Intelligence Failures' and the laike to maximize Jedi casualties through the war.

No. Blind trust of someone they supposedly don't trust did its share of limitation.

Jedi mistrust of palpatine didn't really begin to build until the war had already started and the Jedi emerged as defacto generals. Hell that same power that caused the Jedi to mistrust him was the power that made them ignore him as a potential suspect to be the Dark Lord of the Sith.. they figured it couldn't be him since he pretty much controlled the galaxy already.

Gorjirus

May 30th, 2005, 01:08 PM

Quick question: Does ***** consider ALL the Star Wars novels cannon?

anguirus55

May 30th, 2005, 01:39 PM

Yes, unless they contradict the highest source, the movies.

He doesn't much care about them, though.

Gorjirus

May 30th, 2005, 08:19 PM

From what I have heard (as I have not seen the movie yet)

SPOILERS

Palpatine sort of "morphs" when he is hit with the reflected force lighting. Correct?

I was wondering, is this almost instantaneous? Or does the changing begin immediatly?

Solar_Behemoth

May 30th, 2005, 10:18 PM

^

Why didn't Luke end up like Palpatine in ROTJ when he got pounded by tons of that force lightning at the end?

Morteki

May 30th, 2005, 10:33 PM

Spoilers

Why didn't Luke end up like Palpatine in ROTJ when he got pounded by tons of that force lightning at the end?
Answer: If memory serves, luke wasn't hit with the lightning as long without breaks like Palpatine was. Luke got hit with the lightning, then it stopped, the he did it again, and then stopped. But Palpatine got hit with it for like a minute without stopping. So his skin couldn't cool down.

I was wondering, is this almost instantaneous? Or does the changing begin immediatly?
It kind of started off slow. I could barely notice the change at first. But then it started to get worse by the second and it really got bad.

I have to questions:

One- who the heck was the jedi that saved that pilot (the one who adopts Leia). I know he was obviously a youngling, but they were suppose to be killed by Anakin!

Two- is the actor that played palpatine in the original star wars the same actor who played him in the prequels. I know there is like a thirty year gap, but they look like the same actor!

Archaic_Avenger

May 30th, 2005, 10:55 PM

I have to questions:

One- who the heck was the jedi that saved that pilot (the one who adopts Leia). I know he was obviously a youngling, but they were suppose to be killed by Anakin!

Two- is the actor that played palpatine in the original star wars the same actor who played him in the prequels. I know there is like a thirty year gap, but they look like the same actor!

for the first question. i'm not too sure who the Jedi is exactly. if it was the same person i read about in the Episode III visual dictionary, it was actually a girl. i'm also pretty sure she wasn't a youngling, either.

for the second question. it is the same actor who played the Emporer. played him in all the new trilogy, and Episode 6. in Episode 5, in the brief scene where the hologram Emporer discusses "a disturbance in the Force" with Vader, it was a different guy. then along came the remastered and rereleased versions, where they actually refilmed the scene and inserted the Emporer as the new/newer actor.

^

Why didn't Luke end up like Palpatine in ROTJ when he got pounded by tons of that force lightning at the end?

if you notice, Luke was only getting pretty much torture lightning, at first, from the emporer. enough for massive pain, but not enough for any real killing or noticable life draining damage. when the Emporer moves in for the kill ("and now... you will die.") Vader/Anakin steps in (i beleive them to be more like seperate people. Vader dies as soon as Anakin came to save Luke.) personally, i think it was the meatn-to-kill lightning, at point-blank range, that made such a breif exposure deadly to Anakin.

my biggest question is who really is the Chosen One. i'm convinced it was Luke. Episode 1 got me thinking, and i really thought it was Luke. but then Episode 2 got me thinking it was Anakin. but in Episode 3, Anakin's dark deeds were just too much. almost even irredeemable, in fact, only irredeemable with the fact that he thought he could save Padme, and possible even others. thus, i decided, Luke had to be the Chosen One. recently, i read something that counted Vader and Anakin as seperate individuals, and credited Luke as the one who killed Vader, through his love. of course the body of Anakin (now rid of Vader, and back to being Anakin) was the one who killed the Emporer, so while being a joint effort, it couldn't have happened without Luke.

ahh, discussing Star Wars without whiners (not Clint, he has valid reasons. i mean whiney people who whine) who want to insult it and its fans is good.

Rodan2000

Archaic_Avenger

May 30th, 2005, 11:08 PM

No, you should look to Japanese films, ironically enough, for where ##### took his ideas and indeed many of his visuals. I doubt if the git even read Tolkien before he made the first movie. Trying to impose Star Wars characters over those from LotR sounds more like some Star Wars geek in denial trying to either belittle LotR (forgetting that it was a book decades before it was a series of movies) or else trying to legitimize and add some class to something that has come to represent the very dregs of science fiction.

For those interested, some specific Japanese films I'd suggest looking at for the 'inspiration' of Star Wars are 'The Hidden Fortress' (both the general plot of Star Wars plus the characters of R2-D2 and C-3P0), 'The Mysterians' (the look of the Mysterians and their base is very similar to that of stormtroopers and the Death Star interiors), 'Battle in Outer Space' (the first film to feature fighter combat in space) and especially 'The Magic Serpent', which has the entire Obi-Wan/Darth Vader relationship in there in the person of its two sorcerers, as well as alot of the Luke Skywalker bit in the person of the good prince who studies under the hermit wizard who originally taught the bad guy sorcerer (and who in turn is serving a corrupt emperor/shogun). The evil sorcerer even hires 'bounty hunters' to track down the good guys!

here i'm gonna take an old post.

it really is Japanese films ***** took his inspiration from. the Jedi are modelled after Samurai, and the very word Jedi is the word for Japanese Samurai-times-based Soap Operas. and the biggest inspiration is from the movie Hidden Fortress, where a Samurai (Obi Won) helps two theives (the droids) rescue a princess (Leia). in the scene where Vader Force chokes the one guy ("I find your lack of faith disturbing.") the guy's lines that are cut short mention the "rebel's hidden fort-- ung ung..." i thought that was pretty cool.

Rodan2000

anguirus55

May 31st, 2005, 12:32 AM

One- who the heck was the jedi that saved that pilot (the one who adopts Leia). I know he was obviously a youngling, but they were suppose to be killed by Anakin!

Zett Jukassa. Played by GL's son Jett. He had a briefer cameo in AotC. By Sith he's about 14, easily trained enough to do the damage he does. Obviously he didn't tangle with Vader, or he'd be dead.

He didn't exactly save Bail...they were going to let him leave. It's Bail's witnessing of the kid's death that really inspires him to create the Rebellion, not to mention get out there and save Yoda and Obi-Wan.

Rodan's right about the actor playing Palpatine. I have to differ with him on the Chosen One, though. GL pretty much said it's Anakin. He was concieved by the Force. He COULD HAVE destroyed the Sith in RotS...he killed Dooku, he told Windu about Palpatine, and if he'd just sat by Windu would have ended it. But he didn't. It is his son's love that causes him to make the right choice at the end, despite all the evil he'd done, and destroy the Emperor at the end of Jedi. This kills himself, too...thus, he destroys the Sith.

PyrasTerran

May 31st, 2005, 01:59 PM

'Funny how prophecies work out. :p

Archaic_Avenger

May 31st, 2005, 03:18 PM

Zett Jukassa. Played by GL's son Jett. He had a briefer cameo in AotC. By Sith he's about 14, easily trained enough to do the damage he does. Obviously he didn't tangle with Vader, or he'd be dead.

oh, well, i stand corrected. i could've sworn i read that was a girl.

I have to differ with him on the Chosen One, though. GL pretty much said it's Anakin. He was concieved by the Force. He COULD HAVE destroyed the Sith in RotS...he killed Dooku, he told Windu about Palpatine, and if he'd just sat by Windu would have ended it. But he didn't. It is his son's love that causes him to make the right choice at the end, despite all the evil he'd done, and destroy the Emperor at the end of Jedi. This kills himself, too...thus, he destroys the Sith.

well, you make a good point. he does kill the emporer, and Dooku, and in a way, himself. that ver well could make him the Chosen One.

but what if it was both of them. what if the Chosen One was both Luke and Anakin. what if, the Chosen One was actually the Chosen Line, as if it was the Skywalkers who were the Chosen One, as a collective whole? interesting idea, nonetheless.

Rodan2000

godofPH

May 31st, 2005, 03:57 PM

Heres something interesting that will make the Jar Jar haters happy

from IMDB

Jar Jar Binks, standing in for Senator Amidala, puts forth the motion that gives Palpatine supreme powers. This means that Jar Jar, the most hated character in the Star Wars canon, is indirectly responsible for the fall of the Old Republic and the near-annihilation of the Jedi order.

Zeptron

May 31st, 2005, 04:07 PM

True, but Padme probably would have made the same decision--albeit not as cheerfully!

anguirus55

May 31st, 2005, 08:22 PM

Heres something interesting that will make the Jar Jar haters happy

from IMDB

Oh yeah, that's one of my favorite little twists. It didn't make up for Jar Jar's excruciating presence in the first, though.

SandwormPhish

June 2nd, 2005, 12:06 AM

http://silentfilmstarwars.ytmnd.com/

So I'm not the only one who thinks movie Grievous is a 'moustache twirler' :D

PyrasTerran

June 2nd, 2005, 01:16 AM

Haha..

Awsome.

Grievous really is unique in that sense.

SandwormPhish

June 2nd, 2005, 11:34 AM

Can't you just see the news lines? 'Dastardly Droid General Ties Chancellor to Train Tracks!"

:D :P

Zigra

June 2nd, 2005, 12:59 PM

Cookson

June 2nd, 2005, 01:46 PM

Alright for all you Star Wars fans out there I was digging around for the best possible rumour of when the newest Star Wars flick would hit stores(DVD/VHS) and it looks like 11-8-05 is very possible.

5/10/05

This is VERY early information, so take it with a grain of salt. But several of our video retail sources are indicating to us that 20th Century Fox has tentatively set Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven for DVD release on 10/11, with Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith tentatively due on 11/8 (a worldwide release on the same day). The 11/8 date for Episode III has been corroborated with multiple independent retailer sources. It also jives with the Burger King watch promotion details that leaked on 5/2 (see this post below). Again, however, I'd like to stress that none of this is official until announced by the studio (and *****film in the case of Episode III). It's possible that these dates will shift before they're made public (as they often do).

What we DO know about Episode III is that ***** himself has confirmed (to MTV.com) that the film will be available on DVD in time for this Christmas, that the disc will include 5-6 deleted scenes, and that a 6-film box set will be available at some point in the future.

Stay tuned...

This is the website I got it from http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html

PyrasTerran

June 2nd, 2005, 02:26 PM

To be fair to Jar Jar (something I'd really hate to do), he was actually pressured to make that vote. Notice the scene where everybody in Palpatine's office glares at him when they say they need one more vote.

Er, are you sure they glared at him? I could have sword he just did it because he felt it needed to be done.

Cookson, thanks for the info, though I have something to add to it: The features the DVD will most likely have:

Twelve deleted scenes with introductions from George *****, Rick Mccaum and Ben Burtt.
"The Circle is Now Complete" documentary on all the films.
"Grievous: Developing a General" documentary.
"Brother vs. Brother" documentary on Ewan Mcgregor and Hayden Christensen, includes training sequenses, etc.
Four featurettes about Sith's General storyline, lightsaber fights, spefial effects and bridging the trilogies, respectively.
Comprehensive 20-part web documentary series(award winning).
"War of the Jedi" music video featuring John Williams
Theatrical/teaster trailers, and several TV spots
Theatrical posters & Print campaign
5 multi-angle scene deconstructions
Production Photo Gallery
Visual effects breakdown montage
DVD-ROM features

The reason I say "most likely" is because all of this is officially for the European release, so there's always that slight 1% chance it may not be in the American release.

Orga777

June 2nd, 2005, 02:29 PM

http://silentfilmstarwars.ytmnd.com/

So I'm not the only one who thinks movie Grievous is a 'moustache twirler' :D

Ha!:laugh: That was very funny. How did you find that?

Gorjirus

June 2nd, 2005, 02:33 PM

Orga777

June 2nd, 2005, 03:11 PM

I have a question: During the Clone Wars on Cartoon Network, I think I remember seeing Grievious sort of "pop" open, become more blade like as he fought the Jedi. Now, if memory serves, you can see through him.

Now, how can he cough if he doesn't have lungs?

I also remeber that, but you don't see through Grievous. His organs are all in the upper part of his torso.

Here is a link to the picture:
http://www.81x.com/Authors/frithembleer/grievous.jpg

Look at the top, and you will see the section where the organs are kept and what Mace Windu crushed in to give him the cough.

PyrasTerran

June 2nd, 2005, 04:52 PM

Grievous does so have lungs. he has pretty much the majority of his vital organs.

anguirus55

June 2nd, 2005, 05:02 PM

To be really fair to Jar Jar, there's a good possibility Palpatine mind-tricked him.

PyrasTerran

June 2nd, 2005, 05:36 PM

It's not like giving Palpatine more power was a bad move to the minds of everyone involved. It's only the audience blamming them because we know what ends up happening. I don't see a problem with what Jar Jar did. For the moment, it was actually quite noble.

SandwormPhish

June 2nd, 2005, 10:44 PM

Ha!:laugh: That was very funny. How did you find that?

Found the link on another board.

PyrasTerran

June 4th, 2005, 12:18 AM

The new Vader cycle has split the one-time Old Republic that was Star Wars fandom into two warring factions: the Rebellion, and the normal people with a sense of perspective...

The Rebellion is populated by the joyless, cynical ubertrolls, who sadly, take up the most space on the Internet.

These are the hollow men and women who marched into the prequels demanding that ***** recapture their lost Star Wars youth for them - that simple time in their lives when they had the excuse of prepubescence to explain why they were still virgins.

With that much investment in make-believe, it's little wonder they emerged as more twisted by the dark side than young Skywalker himself.

The rest of us who grew up in the sixteen years between Jedi and Phantom Menace view the new trilogy for what it is: three movies, not three impossible-to-fulfill expectations of folks who need a bearded billionaire in flannel to dream for them.

I got to see an early screening of 'Sith'... I included a brief, enthusiastic review flick in <my> daily online diary... resulting in an asteroid field of haters and dorks zooming at me from every corner of the cybergalaxy.

In reading invective-laden posting after invective-laden posting, I suddenly flashed on my hero, Darth Vader, and realized there's a reason a guy can be turned to the Dark Side: because people are stupid.

How does a shut-in muster the temerity to attack the opinion of a guy who actually saw the movie...

If I had a lightsaber, I'd cut all their hands off, tell 'em I *****ed their mothers or shred'em like a village full of Tusken Raiders.

~ Kevin Smith, ala The Rolling Stones

:O

anguirus55

June 4th, 2005, 12:28 AM

ROTFLMAO!

Ouch...

Orga777

June 4th, 2005, 09:56 AM

Wow, that hole thing is mostly true too.:laugh: Harsh way to put it, but true one the less.

Raptor

June 4th, 2005, 01:56 PM

Wow, that hole thing is mostly true too.:laugh: Harsh way to put it, but true one the less. Yes, it's harsh but it can also be seen as yet another attempt at a wake-up call to Hollywood.
The new Vader cycle has split the one-time Old Republic that was Star Wars fandom into two warring factions: the Rebellion, and the normal people with a sense of perspective...

The Rebellion is... the hollow men and women who marched into the prequels demanding that ***** recapture their lost Star Wars youth for them - With that much investment in make-believe, it's little wonder they emerged as more twisted by the dark side than young Skywalker himself.I take it the author has personally embraced the later films but that is his problem. Many people take their investments seriously, especially when it evolves into fandom, a BELIEF in something. Undermine it and it can get quite personal. Betrayal? Yes, and you all cane whine all you want about SW being Georgie's baby, not the fans'.
The rest of us who grew up in the sixteen years between Jedi and Phantom Menace view the new trilogy for what it is: three movies, not three impossible-to-fulfill expectations of folks who need a bearded billionaire in flannel to dream for them.Here I disagree. "Grow up"? Those simply seeking entertainment seem to be REGRESSING IMO. It's like, "Oooooh! It say STAR WARS on it! This is gonna be sooooooo koool!!!111" Raise your expectations, people, or it's going to happen to other favorites as they get tossed in the Salad Shooter that is now Hollywood. Those "three movies" did indeed cause an uproar but not in a good way.
I suddenly flashed on my hero, Darth Vader, and realized there's a reason a guy can be turned to the Dark Side: because people are stupid.

~ Kevin Smith, ala The Rolling StonesYes, folks could do better than strive to be the lowest common denominator. "I am your father" is simply the Star Wars version of the classic POGO line, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

anguirus55

June 5th, 2005, 08:02 PM

Those simply seeking entertainment seem to be REGRESSING IMO. It's like, "Oooooh! It say STAR WARS on it! This is gonna be sooooooo koool!!!111"

Translation: Because he disagrees with you, he must be a drooling moron.

I'm "simply" seeking entertainment when I see ANY Star Wars film, and with a few exceptions, I'm satisfied. Because mindless **** DOESN'T entertain me. Star Wars films (all of them, even TPM) entertain on a visceral level, but they also make me think, every time.

And if that makes anyone think less of me, I respectfully submit that that's the attitude of a snob.

Archaic_Avenger

June 5th, 2005, 08:56 PM

well, no, Raptor meant not go to it and make such a big deal over how good it is just because it featured a couple thousand explosions. like it and praise, and thus enjoy it, for reasons other than just being appealing to the eyes. she didn't mean that going to a movie to enjoy it is wrong, just that going to a movie and enjoying it just because its flashy.

as for that reveiw, i have to say, i simply didn't understand it. normally i understand things like this, but for some reason, i just plain didn't get a word he was saying. as far as i can teel from it, he liked the movie, but is getting sick of peopple complaining that its not as good as the originals. and in that case, i agree. i went to the movies, knowing that there wasn't a snowballs chance in hell that it would measure up to the old ones. to the classic ones. the original ones changed the way that movies were and are made. nothing else can go out and intentionally do that. it happens by accident, and did so with the old ones. just because it didn't do so with the new ones, it didn't make me upset or bored with them. i seriously enjoyed them, all three, because they were good movies, with good plots, good characters, good acting, and just plain good movies. at least in my veiw. i'm not saying that they were, and even if i did, it wouldn't mean they were. this is my opinion, and in my opinion, they were good movies, and stuck close to the Star Wars canon. and worked well as Star Wars movies. and while they weren't the cinimatic titans that the originals were, it didn't mean they weren't any good.

Rodan2000

Zigra

June 6th, 2005, 01:48 AM

Wow, I guess anybody who prefers good acting, decent dialoug, good storytelling, etc. is a joyless, cynical troll:sarcasm:

Cookson

June 7th, 2005, 12:05 PM

I just wanted to point something out(I have know idea if anyone else has said this yet). You know how they said that Anakin would be the one who would restore order well in a way he did because he is the one who killed the emperor.

What do you think

anguirus55

June 7th, 2005, 12:26 PM

Wow, I guess anybody who prefers good acting, decent dialoug, good storytelling, etc. is a joyless, cynical troll

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have not called ANYONE a troll. That said, this is the thread for Star Wars fans, so expect us to defend the ******* movie if people who dislike it come in and say so.

Raptor implied that those who like Star Wars films are "regressing." You apparently take exception to me saying that that is not true. I guess all I can do about that is drool at you.

Cole Deschain

June 7th, 2005, 12:59 PM

The new Vader cycle has split the one-time Old Republic that was Star Wars fandom into two warring factions: the Rebellion, and the normal people with a sense of perspective...

Y'know, the arrogance implicit in this statement is at least as bad as anything that the shrill anti-fans can dish out.

KS is entitled to his opinion.

And hey! Surprise, surprise! So's everybody ELSE!

Especially since I'm part of, "The rest of us who grew up in the sixteen years between Jedi and Phantom Menace." Bad movies are bad movies, people.

I honestly didn't hate "Sith" because "it ruined Star Wars." Unlike, say, Clint, I'm perfectly willing to go back and watch the un-redone OT quite cheerfully. I hate "Sith" because it's simply a crap movie.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have not called ANYONE a troll. That said, this is the thread for Star Wars fans, so expect us to defend the ******* movie if people who dislike it come in and say so.

Be my guest. But if you defend, be prepared to defend well. Defend the dialogue. Seriously. Please. Defend it. I would sincerely like to hear a justification for the wodden lines that otherwise talented actors are forced to spout. Yes, the OT had its share of turkeys ("When we heard about Alderaan, we feared the worst," still makes me cringe). But there's one key difference- the acotrs in the OT somehow managed to make even the worst of their lines sound liek something their character would actually say, as opposed to some line that the director is shrieking at them to produce.

Raptor implied that those who like Star Wars films are "regressing." You apparently take exception to me saying that that is not true. I guess all I can do about that is drool at you.

Or develop a sense of humor.

Cookson

June 7th, 2005, 01:13 PM

Is this Star Wars website real? http://www.supershadow.com/ It has plots for Episode 7,8,9. And it really does seem like that there will be an episode 7,8,9.

anguirus55

June 7th, 2005, 01:19 PM

I'll readily admit that the OT had overall better acting and dialogue. And most of Phantom Menace is beyond my ability to defend. That said, isn't it obvious enough that we simply enjoy the lines differently? If I say, for instance, "I really loved Ewan McGregor's line 'Not to worry. We are still flying half a ship'" and you really hated that line, then we get nowhere.

Other examples of acting I genuinely enjoyed were the opera house scene, the Dooku-Anakin scene, Anakin's turn, and Vader vs. Obi-Wan. These stack up to the best of what the OT has to offer, in my opinion.

Or develop a sense of humor.

Awww. I would suggest keeping your advice in mind when you read anything Smith writes.

Actually, I find the image of myself as a drooling lunatic quite funny.

anguirus55

June 7th, 2005, 01:20 PM

Supershadow is a notorious BSer. Someone "discovers" his site every few days, but he just makes all that up. Do not trust anything on that site.

Zigra

June 7th, 2005, 03:04 PM

Ang55, please try and pay attention. My comment was directed at what Kevin Smith said, not at you.

What really got to me about KS's comments was that, going by the sort of "logic" he presents, anybody who is a fan of any movie, TV, game, comic series and dissaproves of somebody coming in and messing it up (regardless of whether it is the original creator or not) is a lazy, drooling idiot. Hey guys, I guess that means most of us are morons for not liking what Devlin and Emmerich did to Godzilla:sarcasm:

Orga777

June 7th, 2005, 03:05 PM

After seeing Episode 3, I rewatched all the movies and I though it over. In your opinion what is the best to least best Star Wars movie.
Here are mine:
1. Empire Strikes Back- The absolute best one. 10/10
2. Return of the Jedi- Great way to end the OT. 9/10
3. Revenge of the Sith- It ties everything together very well. 8/10
4. A New Hope- I found this to be boring for my tastes. 7/10
5. Attack of the Clones- Loved Jango, Dooku, and the hole Geonosis part, but the Anakin Padme sceans hurt my ears. 5/10
6. The Phantom Menace- The only good things I can think of that came from this movie are Darth Maul and the Destroyer Droids. Jar Jar sucked, all the gungans sucked, Watto sucked, the battle droids sucked, Gunray sucked, and the ending sucked. 3/10

Zigra

June 7th, 2005, 03:20 PM

I liked RotJ a bit better than most people, but the Ewoks nearly ruined it for me. A bunch of cutesy furballs with their "funny" antics had no place in a movie that should have been taken just as seriously as "Empire Strikes Back".

What burns me even more is that RotJ was originally suppose to feature a Wookie slave uprising in the place of Ewoks, but Georgie got the idea that small cute teddy bear-like creatures would be more marketable to children, so we got the damned Ewoks instead.

Gorjirus

June 7th, 2005, 03:23 PM

Maybe he was planning the two Ewok movies.... *shudders* I would rather watch the Christmas special.

Zeptron

June 7th, 2005, 04:48 PM

Well, it would be pretty stupid to build your all-important Shield Generator on a planet full of hostile Wookiees. Also, I think GL was trying to distance himself from the infamous Star Wars Holiday Special, which also took place on Kashyyyk (I've never seen it).

Gorjirus

June 7th, 2005, 04:58 PM

It would be hard to distance himself any further from it, as he tries to make everyone forget that it even exists. The only way you can see it is buy seeing an old recording, as the actual film of it has been destroyed on GL's order. Oh so I have read in an Uncle John's Bathroom Reader. Thoughn I could have bought a VCD of it at a flea market, but I didn't have any money.

Figment

June 7th, 2005, 05:31 PM

It's very easy to find bootleg copies of the Holiday Special at comic conventions> ***** himself said once that if he had the time, he would hunt down every copy and smash it with a hammer.

anguirus55

June 7th, 2005, 06:00 PM

Ang55, please try and pay attention. My comment was directed at what Kevin Smith said, not at you.

OK, my mistake. I've already had to flog myself with a wet noodle today for misundestanding someone, so maybe I'm tired.

I heard that budget concerns were a major reason for the Ewoks replacing the Wookiees. Easier to dress up a bunch of little people convincingly than a bunch of giants. A lot more Ewoks appear in Jedi than, say, actual Wookiees in RotS. (In one shot a computer is used to increase their numbers.)

Also, ***** felt that Chewbacca demonstrated that the Wookiees were very advanced, and he wanted the creatures responsible for the fall of the Empire to be very primitive.

Anyway. I think Jedi bogs down pretty badly until the terrific end. I think Sith edges it out but fails to reach the heights of ANH and especially Empire.

Cookson

June 7th, 2005, 06:46 PM

Supershadow is a notorious BSer. Someone "discovers" his site every few days, but he just makes all that up. Do not trust anything on that site.

Are you positive this website is rigged? Because I find it hard to believe that someone would post a plot outline(7,8,9) and not get in trouble when it says By George *****.

anguirus55

June 7th, 2005, 09:51 PM

I doubt he's important enough for the company to bother with. All he actually does is confuse people online.

I mean, take a look at those "outlines." Dark Jedi on jetpacks. Uh-huh. Clones of major characters. Uh, yeah. It has all the trademarks of a fan fiction, and a bad one at that. More importantly, no one else ever hears any of it. "Uh, well, I'm GL's best friend and he tells me stuff even Rick McCallum doesn't know!" Suuuure.

If he was actually privy to secret info, he'd probably be in more trouble if it was real than otherwise.

The Star Wars fan community has learned to ignore him.

SandwormPhish

June 8th, 2005, 12:11 AM

They have actually gone after him once before as I recall, forced him to change a few things.

Archaic_Avenger

June 8th, 2005, 03:03 PM

Be my guest. But if you defend, be prepared to defend well. Defend the dialogue. Seriously. Please. Defend it. I would sincerely like to hear a justification for the wodden lines that otherwise talented actors are forced to spout. Yes, the OT had its share of turkeys ("When we heard about Alderaan, we feared the worst," still makes me cringe). But there's one key difference- the acotrs in the OT somehow managed to make even the worst of their lines sound liek something their character would actually say, as opposed to some line that the director is shrieking at them to produce.

the lines thing is one of the only things about the new trilogy being "crappy" that i can agree with. everybody acts as if these new movies were all completely dumb and stupid. i just dont see it. they had action, amazing special effects, carefully restrained comedy, decent characters. sure Jar Jar was annoying, and the romance was icky. name me a movie where the two lovebirds who supposedly love each other as much as Anakin and Padme aren't icky. and with the disaster of Jar Jar, they toned him way down for the rest of the movies. sure, lines like "I love you." "no, I love you." were cheesy, but "One thing's for sure, we're all gonna be a lot thinner." is equally bad. you gotta laugh at the cheese factors, whether new or old. when you try to take everything as complete and total seriousness, you're only gonna get disappointed. one of the most endearing things about the originals was that in the face of disaster, the character's still retained a sense of humor. in the new ones, there must be some comedy to keep things from getting to desperate, and if it comes in the form of some cheesy lines, embrace it. we watch Godzilla, and some of the acting and lines are much worse than Anakin and Padme ("quick, take a picture, then we'll run.") i'm convinced that much of the anti-new Star Wars hype is simply people who went to the new movies expecting to see the old ones remastered, and when they didn't, they took things too seriously, and made a huge fuss over it. yes, its all opinions, but some people have these opinions, and then try to force their opinions on others. and when they only have those opinions because they seem somehow incapable of not taking thing's way too seriously, it makes them even less defendable.

Rodan2000

Gorjirus

June 8th, 2005, 03:30 PM

name me a movie where the two lovebirds who supposedly love each other as much as Anakin and Padme aren't icky

Aren't "icky"? That sounds sorta vague, but one movie that was acclaimed was "The Notebook. I know there are others, but perhaps once "icky" is defined it would make more snese to answer your question.

And for the record, there is never anything wrong for being serious.

anguirus55

June 8th, 2005, 04:03 PM

Speaking of the "love" dialogues...I know they aren't much good, but to be honest, you all would laugh at a lot of what me and my girlfriend say to each other. It is written to be awkward, because that's life.

Gorjirus

June 8th, 2005, 04:08 PM

you all would laugh at a lot of what me and my girlfriend say to each other

That's okay. I've heard enough dialougue between my sister and her fiancee.

But isn't there such a thing as over-doing it?

Cole Deschain

June 8th, 2005, 04:39 PM

i just dont see it.

Schultz! Re-educate the heathen!

they had action

Aside from Darth Maul, most of the maneuvers that snuck into the lightsaber scenes were flashy garbage that doesn't work. I actually hold the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight as the absolute worst because of it. The gun battles? Nothing terribly spectacular (in part because there were nowhere near as many).

amazing special effects

Matter of opinion.

carefully restrained comedy

Much of it of the "groaner" variety. "You'll be the death of me," indeed.

decent characters

Dear sainted mother of Ghandi. NO. Obi-Wan? Decent. Palpatine? Obvious, but sort of amusing. Dooku? Argh. Christopher Lee was wasted on that hack. Amidala? Cute in a tight white outfit, but doomed to, "Oh, my boyfriend's evil, I guess I'll just DIE." She's a weakling in the end. An insult, really. Anakin? Ouch. Palpatine must have slipped a different brain into the body between the PT and the OT, because Vader does. Not. Whine. Jar-Jar? So bad even ***** had to back off and reduce the character's role dramatically. Jango Fett? A worthy predecessor to Boba. Looks cool, does nothing. Darth Maul? Good fighter, no lines. Qui-Gon Jinn? Nevermind the confusion his appearance caused, he was just Obi-Wan Senior as far as personality went. Yay. Yay for the pointlessness. He was obviously there so Maul could kill a Jedi. Watto? Ugh. The Trade Federation Mooks? Well, never mind that their accents disappeared between Episodes II and III, they were cardboard cutout villains.

and the romance was icky. name me a movie where the two lovebirds who supposedly love each other as much as Anakin and Padme aren't icky.

"Icky" is not the problem. My girlfriend and I are "icky." However, when we say stupid stuff, we sound like we mean it. Padme and Anakin sound like they're reading off of a piece of cardboard some stagehand is waving at them. Reading off of it for the second or third time, at best.

"One thing's for sure, we're all gonna be a lot thinner." is equally bad.

Not really. You know why? Yeah, it's a cheesy line, but Harrison Ford sold it. You really believed Han Solo was saying that. It was in character, and it was convincing. When Samuel L. Jackson, king of the threatening demeanor in Pulp Fiction sounds wooden deleivering a threat? Yeah, you've got problems.

Project Pimp

June 8th, 2005, 04:43 PM

It is written to be awkward, because that's life.

Exactly.

I'm much more clever than Anakin with dialogue, but I do find his character to be relatively believable. In many ways, I can identify with him. He just speaks his mind a lot more than I do, and he's not as handsome or powerful.

But isn't there such a thing as over-doing it?

Considering the movies were 95% CGI battles and chase sequences, there wasn't enough time for a developed romance, interesting or not. So I don't think there was any over-doing anything.

Archaic_Avenger

June 8th, 2005, 05:12 PM

Aren't "icky"? That sounds sorta vague, but one movie that was acclaimed was "The Notebook. I know there are others, but perhaps once "icky" is defined it would make more snese to answer your question.

And for the record, there is never anything wrong for being serious.

i'm nopt saying there is, i'm just saying people taking things way too seriously is wrong. or at least when in their extreme seriousness they force their opinions on others. i'm not syaing that's happening here, but there's a lot of that at school, specifically in the Star Wars region.

and for Cole, well, i may be the only one who thinks this, but i thought Ankin and Padme were convincingly icky. sounded just as sincere as all the ick-factor couples at school.
and as for the amazing special affects, may i remind you of the opening space battle in Episode 3? and followingly seeing that ship rip apart in space like that? i'm not sure anyone can doubt that as at least good special effects. that one goes down as 'amazing' in my book.
and then as for the characters. personally, i thought al the ones you listed were good characters, minues Jar Jar of course. like you said, there are opinions, and this is mine. i thought they were decent characters. we got to see Obi Wan mature and grow through the movies, Anakin may have been whiny at first, but it does seem to turn more into anger, hate, and finally suffering by the end. when he learns of Padme's death, and has that huge panicky, uncontrolled surge of emotion, (yes with the infamous "NOOOO!", one i thought was appropriately cheesy), he goes ballistic for a moment, blaming anyone and everything, even himself, and then...nothing. the next scene shows him at the hull of an Imperial Destroyer, and as he crosses his arms in silent frustration, you realize he has lost emotion. and really, he doesn't show real emotion until the end of Jedi.

it all depends on how much you WANT to like something. i was convinced i was going to like it, and when i did, i felt i was a fan loyal to Star Wars. i'm sure the people who dont like it, like Clint, see themselves as loyal to the originals when they are disappointed in the new ones. we all think we're right, we all think we're the loyal few. in the end, there's no real way to tell, so the debates go on. for now, i'm just gonna keep on the side i feel loyal to, which is the side who happened to like Episode 3.

Rodan2000