Showa MG x Heisei MG x Kiryu Mg v1 x Kiryu MG v2

[Godzilla]

Ok you know the drill. this is from the thread in Kaiju general discussion.

[Orga777]

I'll stick by what I said. Kiryu would thrash either one of these in a heart beat. Neither can dish out the kind of damage needed to bring Kiryu down, so he wins it easily. Heisei MG will be first to drop due to his sever weakness to damage. Then Showa MG will drop soon after. Then Kiryu 1 and 2 are left. Kiryu 2 has better weapons that will beat ver.1.

Winner: Kiryu ver.2

[Burning Godzilla]

Kiryu V.1 wins Blah Blah Blah

[rodanguirus]

Uhh, the Kiryu's being on the same side, team up, and since Showa MG is under the control of alien invaders, Heisei also hooks up with the Kiryus, they slaughter him, then the Kiryus turn on Heisei and slaughter him, then since v1 is more agile and has the knife to send electricity through v2's circuits, he wins. That's how I think it'd happen anyway.

[Orga777]

Uhh, the Kiryu's being on the same side, team up, and since Showa MG is under the control of alien invaders, Heisei also hooks up with the Kiryus, they slaughter him, then the Kiryus turn on Heisei and slaughter him, then since v1 is more agile and has the knife to send electricity through v2's circuits, he wins. That's how I think it'd happen anyway.

It is a free for all, no ties what so ever.

[BS Digital Q]

Version 2 wins. V2 can just pop off the Hyper Maser while V1 is charging the AZC and interrupt him.

[Biderbeck]

we forget... showa MG has a barrior shield... negates some attacks.... SHowa in a fire fight Kairyu in h2h

[Gojira Monster king]

Showa wins.


Both kiuys kill hesise. then one kills the other. when it opens it's secert weapon, all weapon strike. end of battel P.S. how dare you make this a thread!

[Gigan7]

in my opinion this battel ends rather quikly for heisei MG since of the four conteststs he would have to be the weakest. sure he may be an excellent Godzilla destroying machine but that seems to be all he's good for. the Heisei MG was designed purly for Godzilla's demise and even then had to rely on on Godzillas Specific anatomy to defetet him (the spinel brain) . so really Heisei barley makes an opponet for the other MG's. the real fight is between showa and the Kiryu's in where I agree with biderbeck if showa can keep this soley a contest of long ranged weaponry he is the victor but if any of the kiryu's get the chance to make this battle hand to hand it's all over for showa MG.

[Orga777]

in my opinion this battel ends rather quikly for heisei MG since of the four conteststs he would have to be the weakest. sure he may be an excellent Godzilla destroying machine but that seems to be all he's good for. the Heisei MG was designed purly for Godzilla's demise and even then had to rely on on Godzillas Specific anatomy to defetet him (the spinel brain) . so really Heisei barley makes an opponet for the other MG's. the real fight is between showa and the Kiryu's in where I agree with biderbeck if showa can keep this soley a contest of long ranged weaponry he is the victor but if any of the kiryu's get the chance to make this battle hand to hand it's all over for showa MG.

Come on. Showa MG stays in one place during all its battles all the time. It let Godzilla and Ceasar get close, it will let Kiryu get close. End of story.

[Godzilla]

WHat about when he rocketed away from Godzilla. Too bad Godzilla learned a trick from going and harnessed electricity.

[Orga777]

WHat about when he rocketed away from Godzilla. Too bad Godzilla learned a trick from going and harnessed electricity.

Kiryu is quick enough and powerful enough to not let Mecha Godzilla rocket off. Besides, those missles of Kiryu's will do more damage to Showa MG than MG's missles will do to Kiryu.;)

[Draco Starcloud]

While I think Showa's missiles are stronger than either Kiryu's, I think either of the Kiryus would beat him, though not without taking some heavy damage. His shield might block a straightfoward assault, but Kiryu's missiles have been shown to come from the front, the sides, and above. Above is right where Showa is vulnerable with his shield up. Kiryu's homing missiles would also beat Showa's comparatively slow flight. Also, both Kiryu's are far more agile than Showa Godzilla and Showa King Seesar; a full-on assault won't work nearly as well, though any hits Showa lands will deal some nasty damage.

Heisei, with his limited armament, would probobly be defeated first. He might get some good hits in on the others, but any of them would beat Heisei up close.

In the end, I think V2 would win. My reasons for such can be seen in the Kiryu V1 vs. Kiryu V2 thread currently active in the one-on-one fight forum.

[Biderbeck]

I don't belive Kiryu would be able to avoid an arial assult, Showa swoops in from the back BANG BANG.... one dead cyborg. Kiryu also can't take too many direct hits... All Showa MG needs to do would be to block a few attacks, if kiryu gets close put up the barrior, and when he falls back unload the endless arsonal... the homming missles would be a problem also if he's hit with hyper maser or AZ... thou an AZ attack would leave vr1 kiryu in a bad way especially if he missed. If Showa can play a waiting game the battle is his...batteries suck...

[Orga777]

I don't belive Kiryu would be able to avoid an arial assult, Showa swoops in from the back BANG BANG.... one dead cyborg. Kiryu also can't take too many direct hits... All Showa MG needs to do would be to block a few attacks, if kiryu gets close put up the barrior, and when he falls back unload the endless arsonal... the homming missles would be a problem also if he's hit with hyper maser or AZ... thou an AZ attack would leave vr1 kiryu in a bad way especially if he missed. If Showa can play a waiting game the battle is his...batteries suck...

Look, Showa MG cannot do ANYTHING when his sheild is up. All it does is stant there. Whe that sheild is down guess what, sluaghter fest, because either Kiryu would be up close. Then he is done. Oh not to mention getting hit by Showa Godzilla's ray made him spark, getting hit by Kiryu's arsonal of much stronger weapons will shread the mech to peices. And how can you say that Kiryu is not durable. He got blasted continusly by a much more powerful Godzilla and it didn't even leave a scratch on Kiryu. Oh and the batteries thing, Showa MG won't last two hours in a fight against any Kiryu anyway so it doesn't matter.

[MirrenDono]

^ Just a note on Megaro Goji's beam bud, many of those sparks were mostly caused by the beam itself, not his armor being wrecked. Megaro Goji's beam as we've seen used every time creates explosions and blasts of sparks on the Kaiju's body when it hits, so happening to Showa Mechagodzilla is nothing bad. It happened when Gigan got hit by it, it happened when the Fake Godzilla got hit by it, it happened with Mechagodzilla II got hit by it, and even when Titano was hit by it.

And don't act like its weak either, Megaro Goji's beam is a very powerful weapon.

[Orga777]

^ Just a note on Megaro Goji's beam bud, many of those sparks were mostly caused by the beam itself, not his armor being wrecked. Megaro Goji's beam as we've seen used every time creates explosions and blasts of sparks on the Kaiju's body when it hits, so happening to Showa Mechagodzilla is nothing bad. It happened when Gigan got hit by it, it happened when the Fake Godzilla got hit by it, it happened with Mechagodzilla II got hit by it, and even when Titano was hit by it.

And don't act like its weak either, Megaro Goji's beam is a very powerful weapon.

Yea, but can you compare his beam to GXMM Godzilla? I don't think so. And look at Kiryu's arsonal. The maser from the mouth, the powerful missles, the blade/drill, AZC/Hyper Maser, and the rist blasters as well. Showa MG isn't going to survive continuous blast like that. Kiryu took Godzilla's ray without getting damaged and I don't think Showa Mecha-Godzilla has what it takes to bring Kiryu down.

[rodanguirus]

Kiryu doesn't get a scratch from Godzilla's ray? What about blowing his electric steak knife off? Or half his face? Or knocking him down for the count once in each film? I do believe a Kiryu can defeat Showa MG, I just don't think he's going to shrug off MG's weaponry. Especially the eye laser, which in Terror, showed tremendous explosive force when it turned Tokyo into a parking lot and blew up a squadron of jets in one shot.
I think Kiryu has the evasive speed and hand to hand power to overtake MG (as I said back on the general thread, Kiryu has brutal offensive power), I just think MG would definitely do some damage before he went up in smoke.

[Orga777]

Kiryu doesn't get a scratch from Godzilla's ray? What about blowing his electric steak knife off? Or half his face? Or knocking him down for the count once in each film? I do believe a Kiryu can defeat Showa MG, I just don't think he's going to shrug off MG's weaponry. Especially the eye laser, which in Terror, showed tremendous explosive force when it turned Tokyo into a parking lot and blew up a squadron of jets in one shot.
I think Kiryu has the evasive speed and hand to hand power to overtake MG (as I said back on the general thread, Kiryu has brutal offensive power), I just think MG would definitely do some damage before he went up in smoke.

First off, the knife is nothing. Godzilla broke the knife big deal, that does no real damage to the mech. And the face thing was to the second version of Kiryu not the firstnot to mention point blank, that is why the ver.2 has a stronger weapons system. Now in the first movie, the only reason Godzilla knocked him out was because Kiryu shot the AZC cannon and that takes 40% of its power. That is what knocked it out. MG's beams arn't going to budge Kiryu who took better shots from a Godzilla thats beam has tremendous push. Also, Showa MG has TERRIBLE aim with his missles. About half of them miss their target completely. Kiryu's missles are homeing missles that will always hit their target. So MG is up a creek without a paddle.

[Biderbeck]

First off, the knife is nothing. Godzilla broke the knife big deal, that does no real damage to the mech. And the face thing was to the second version of Kiryu not the firstnot to mention point blank, that is why the ver.2 has a stronger weapons system. Now in the first movie, the only reason Godzilla knocked him out was because Kiryu shot the AZC cannon and that takes 40% of its power. That is what knocked it out. MG's beams arn't going to budge Kiryu who took better shots from a Godzilla thats beam has tremendous push. Also, Showa MG has TERRIBLE aim with his missles. About half of them miss their target completely. Kiryu's missles are homeing missles that will always hit their target. So MG is up a creek without a paddle.
The first kiryu got his arm blown off and the AZ damaged, no the AZ was distroyed I believe the damage rate was 38 % and it was rendered non operational... every attack drains power. and once Kiryu is knocked down it has serious issues... Showas barrior ok so hes in one spot... and... if kiryu makes an assault while the barrior is up looses precious enegry Showa MG wouldn't have a problem droping the shield and taking to the air to light up Kiryu. Ok Showa isn't on taget with missles.. but with the overwhelming fire power a 50% hit rate would do major damage. Powerful yet limited attacks of Kiryu would leave him open once the ammo ran out...it is very reasonable to think Showa MG could just stand there and let kiryu shoot himself into a coma... or fly around blasting him with beam weapons which were the most accruiate attacks... If godzilla hadn't turned himself into a magnet MG woulda kept flying round blasting the tar out of him...

[Orga777]

MG never showed the ability to fly after dropping the sheild. Also Kiryu is piloted by a human. If Godzilla was able to figure out that you can't get through the sheild, then I am more than sure the humans can. The ONLY reason that the AZC cannon was broken and his arm was destroyed was because both Godzilla shot his beam while the AZC cannon got shot off AT POINT BLANK RANGE! Godzilla was right in front of the mech when that happened, and all that happened was Kiryu lost an arm and the AZC cannon got broken. If it can take that, I am more than sure it can take MG's missles that seem to only peirce and hardly explode, and the eye lasers that is safe to say is a fraction of Kiryu Goji's beam. Godzilla ripped Showa MG's head off twice, what is Kiryu going to do when it has the oppertunity to get close? Bad things will happen. You seriously overrate Showa MG and underlook Kiryu big time.

[Gorjirus]

MG never showed the ability to fly after dropping the sheild.

What? Showa MG DID fly after dropping the shield. He is flying right before he is destroyed.

[Orga777]

What? Showa MG DID fly after dropping the shield. He is flying right before he is destroyed.

What I ment is right after the sheild is dropped he didn't fly away. I could be wrong though I haven't seen the movie in a long time.

[Gorjirus]

I'll have to check. I just know that at one point, it only took about for the time for Godzilla to release his beam and it to hit the ground, MG was able to take flight.

[Gigan7]

Look, Showa MG cannot do ANYTHING when his sheild is up. All it does is stant there. .

I had not thought of that orga. while inside the barrier shield Showa MG is completely imobile relying heavily on the shield to provied the adequate protection showa Mg needs. Problem is in this battle against the kiryus this shield may be showas undoing. for it take's a few seconds for Showa MG's head to spin around fast enoufge to make the barrier pleaty of time for a Kiryu to make a heavy assulte with out fear of immiedte retaliation. also if Showa MG does mange to put up the sheild I do beilve the top of the barrier is wide open and with Kiryu's homeing missles showa could be devestatigly attacked in what seems to be his most vunerbale spot, his head.

[Draco Starcloud]

I just thought of something that may be important.

If Showa puts his shield up, Heisei could hover aroundhim firing down with his Mega Buster and eye beams.

[Orga777]

I just thought of something that may be important.

If Showa puts his shield up, Heisei could hover aroundhim firing down with his Mega Buster and eye beams.

By the time the sheild is up Heisei MG would be in the scrap heap....

[Draco Starcloud]

By the time the sheild is up Heisei MG would be in the scrap heap....

Well, I can't argue on that point. ^_^

[Burkion]

REVIVE!

I will say this: I'm on Showa Mecha Godzilla's side.

His missiles will wreak HELL upon the others, and he can dodge beams pretty damn well.

[Orga777]

REVIVE!

I will say this: I'm on Showa Mecha Godzilla's side.

His missiles will wreak HELL upon the others, and he can dodge beams pretty damn well.

Oh not this again.... I am still with Kiryu. He has taken worse than Showa MG's missles, and it will only take one to two beams to scrap Showa MG.

[anguirus55]

Wow, a YEAR AND TEN DAYS' necromancy. I'm in awe.

Showa MG will give the other three combatants hell (at the same time) but eventually one of the Kiryus will beat the crap out of him. Heisei MG also gets the crap beaten out of him. Then the two damaged Kiryus will fight. One of them will win, but I can't really give a **** who.

[Burkion]

I find that if you're going to bring back the HATED DEAD, you might want to do it ten days to the yearly aniversery of their demise.

And Heisei MG is going down first, and going down hard.

Then it leaves the original aganst the other two.

If Showa goes into flying stance, then there's no WAY either Kiryu can catch him, and he can easily damage them straight to hell.

[Orga777]

Yes, a flying stance, with attacks that barely hurt Showa Goji in that second fight.:sarcasm: Yea, they are going to blow apart Kiryu's soooo easily.:sarcasm: What happens when he is on the ground? Where is prone to getting shot to death by beams and missles that will rip his 'armor' apart?

[Gorjirus]

Well, he does have that shield.

And you are going by the fact that the two Kiryu's would gang up. If they are just attacking any foe randomly, then if Showa just goes constant all out attack, he might out last one Kiryu, and then be stuck against the other.

How that turns out, well, I'm really not that into the debate yet. ;)

[Orga777]

Well, he does have that shield.

Yes, the sheild. Showa MG does NOTHING while under protection of the sheild. So moot point.

And you are going by the fact that the two Kiryu's would gang up. If they are just attacking any foe randomly, then if Showa just goes constant all out attack, he might out last one Kiryu, and then be stuck against the other.

No I am not. I am going by the fact that either Kiryu can beat Showa MG ratehr easily with better weaponry, better durability, and better manuverability.

[anguirus55]

If Showa goes into flying stance, then there's no WAY either Kiryu can catch him

You must have missed he fact that not only can Kiryu fly (for brief periods), but he can easily engage a flying opponent from the ground. Hell, the two Kiryus here can be fighting each other and shooting down MG at the same time.

[Gorjirus]

Yes, the sheild. Showa MG does NOTHING while under protection of the sheild. So moot point.


Unless it actually does the smart thing and while the Kiryu's are fighting, it keeps the shield on to deal with the missles.

I am going by the fact that either Kiryu can beat Showa MG ratehr easily with better weaponry, better durability, and better manuverability.


But they can't utilize all that if they are fighting another Kiryu at the same time, which also has all that.

[Orga777]

Unless it actually does the smart thing and while the Kiryu's are fighting, it keeps the shield on to deal with the missles.

It took him a pretty long time to get that shield up. Not to emntion that his top is rather unprotected. And those missles DO come from the top.

But they can't utilize all that if they are fighting another Kiryu at the same time, which also has all that.

Very true, but Showa MG isn't much of a threat. It will take only a couple shots with the Maser to bring him down. Not to mention if eitehr of them gets close that blade or drill is going to shread Showa MG into little pieces of scrap metal.

[Gorjirus]

Agreeing with the statement about shield time, no real statement is needed for rebuttle.

And those missles DO come from the top.


They would have to come in flying straight down or at a very steep angle to get past the lip of the shield.

but Showa MG isn't much of a threat. It will take only a couple shots with the Maser to bring him down. Not to mention if eitehr of them gets close that blade or drill is going to shread Showa MG into little pieces of scrap metal.

If it fires all of its attacks, it would damage a Kiryu. Especially if that Kiryu is being attacked by another Kiryu. Showa could very well assist in a "kill" of another Kiryu if given the time.

[Orga777]

They would have to come in flying straight down or at a very steep angle to get past the lip of the shield.

All of them won't, but a few of them will.

If it fires all of its attacks, it would damage a Kiryu. Especially if that Kiryu is being attacked by another Kiryu. Showa could very well assist in a "kill" of another Kiryu if given the time.

It would damage, but it won't beat it. The diffrence in durability between Showa Godzilla and Kiryu is drasticly diffrent and it favors Kiryu a hole lot more. An all out assult was walked through by Showa Goji, so why can't a Kiryu go through it?

[Gorjirus]

All of them won't, but a few of them will.


If Kiryu just fired them, I don't think they would come in on a course that takes them up into the air and then down in a huge rainbow arch.

But I do agree that perhaps 2 or 3 would make it.

It would damage, but it won't beat it. The diffrence in durability between Showa Godzilla and Kiryu is drasticly diffrent and it favors Kiryu a hole lot more. An all out assult was walked through by Showa Goji, so why can't a Kiryu go through it?


Notice that is why I said assist Kiryu. If Kiryu is getting beat up by another Kiryu, that additional damage would do alot.

And durable or not, if Kiryu got hit with '75's Revolver Missle (which this Showa isn't), it would do damage. That sucker is strong. The fact that when Godzilla got hit in the chest, smoke came out of his mouth from his insides, that is some damage.

[Orga777]

If Kiryu just fired them, I don't think they would come in on a course that takes them up into the air and then down in a huge rainbow arch.

But I do agree that perhaps 2 or 3 would make it.

They don't go in a rainbow arch, but they go up in the air and hit Goji in the head and shouler area for the most part.

And durable or not, if Kiryu got hit with '75's Revolver Missle (which this Showa isn't), it would do damage. That sucker is strong. The fact that when Godzilla got hit in the chest, smoke came out of his mouth from his insides, that is some damage.

True, it is strong, but it wouldn't take Kiryu out of the fight like it did Showa Goji.

[Gorjirus]

They don't go in a rainbow arch, but they go up in the air and hit Goji in the head and shouler area for the most part.


Ah, but MG's shield covers that area. If they follow that arch, they would just hit the shield.

True, it is strong, but it wouldn't take Kiryu out of the fight like it did Showa Goji.

No, but if fighting another Kiryu, it really could put the hit Kiryu over the edge of defeat.

[Hybrid Gojira]

*sigh*

I really don't understand the logic with which people think Showa MG is going to be destroyed by 2 shots of the Maser. That's pretty lame. Sparks are sparks - Titanosaurus shot sparks everywhere (and so did the ground) when Goji's beam hit them.

It would appear that most agree Heisei MG is going down here. He is ill-equiped to fight Kiryu and/SHowa MG. In the case of Showa MG vs. Kiryu, I'm not so sure who would win. On one hand, Showa MG deals death with his awesome barrage of ranged weapons and firepower. His arsenal is much greater than Kiryu's at range. However, Kiryu dominates up close. Once close to Showa MechaGoji, it's clear Kiryu has the upper claw. And 2 Kiryu's make this overkill... Since we don't know who would fight who, I'd have to assume that with 2 Kiryus one would be able to attack Showa MG at close for an extended amount of time - making Kiryu (either one) the winner in the end.

[Orga777]

I really don't understand the logic with which people think Showa MG is going to be destroyed by 2 shots of the Maser. That's pretty lame. Sparks are sparks - Titanosaurus shot sparks everywhere (and so did the ground) when Goji's beam hit them.

This logic actually.
Kiryu's lasers > Showa Goji's breath weapon. Does that work?
It doesn't help Showa MG any that these Masers damaged Kiryu-Godzilla who has an amazingly strong hide, especially compared to Showa Goji who does not have much of a defense.

It would appear that most agree Heisei MG is going down here. He is ill-equiped to fight Kiryu and/SHowa MG. In the case of Showa MG vs. Kiryu, I'm not so sure who would win. On one hand, Showa MG deals death with his awesome barrage of ranged weapons and firepower. His arsenal is much greater than Kiryu's at range. However, Kiryu dominates up close. Once close to Showa MechaGoji, it's clear Kiryu has the upper claw. And 2 Kiryu's make this overkill... Since we don't know who would fight who, I'd have to assume that with 2 Kiryus one would be able to attack Showa MG at close for an extended amount of time - making Kiryu (either one) the winner in the end.

Yes, the range attacks of Showa MG can be impressive... If it was accurate. Since 80% of everything during the All out Assult missed Showa Goji it is safe to assume that the same will be for Kiryu. And Kiryu has a good amount of ranged weaponry as well.


Ah, but MG's shield covers that area. If they follow that arch, they would just hit the shield.

Not all of it. The top as I have said is very open for the missles to get into it. And a few of them can get in a trash MG.

[Gorjirus]

damaged Kiryu-Godzilla

Damaged Godzilla? I don't remember that. Perhaps hurting yes, but actual damage?

The top as I have said is very open for the missles to get into it. And a few of them can get in a trash MG

But not all of the missles go in that arch, since Kiryu just fires them at the opponents. If MG is standing there, what proof do we have that they would follow a different flight path of that seen when they hit Godzilla?

[Orga777]

Damaged Godzilla? I don't remember that. Perhaps hurting yes, but actual damage?

That was what I meant.:look:

But not all of the missles go in that arch, since Kiryu just fires them at the opponents. If MG is standing there, what proof do we have that they would follow a different flight path of that seen when they hit Godzilla?

I didn't say they would!:laugh: I said that the missles go into the air and come DOWN on Goji form the top and that the same thing can happen here.

[Hybrid Gojira]

This logic actually.
Kiryu's lasers > Showa Goji's breath weapon. Does that work?
It doesn't help Showa MG any that these Masers damaged Kiryu-Godzilla who has an amazingly strong hide, especially compared to Showa Goji who does not have much of a defense.

The only problem with this logic is that we know that Kiryu Goji, for whatever reason, is seemingly harmed by masers. You could say this is a weakness. However, I actually recall Showa Goji pretty much NOT being affected by masers. The same is easily said for Heisei Goji. I might also point out that when Kiryu Goji is effected by the Maser Cannon, his gnarly wound is what Kiryu is targeting, hence the effect is much greater than it would be if Godzilla was not injured/recovering.


Kiryu has ranged weapons, NONE of which did anything to Godzilla with the exception of physical attacks and his Maser cannon. Everything else was seemingly ignored by Godzilla.

[Gorjirus]

I said that the missles go into the air and come DOWN on Goji form the top and that the same thing can happen here.


I don't really know one way or the other. ;) I haven't watched that movie in a while. :D

[Orga777]

The only problem with this logic is that we know that Kiryu Goji, for whatever reason, is seemingly harmed by masers. You could say this is a weakness. However, I actually recall Showa Goji pretty much NOT being affected by masers. The same is easily said for Heisei Goji. I might also point out that when Kiryu Goji is effected by the Maser Cannon, his gnarly wound is what Kiryu is targeting, hence the effect is much greater than it would be if Godzilla was not injured/recovering.

From what I remember, is that Kiryu-Goji is immune to the Masers which was why they developed Kiryu in the first place. That is also why Kiryu's Maser's are more powerful than the normal Masers. And since these beams are capable of hurting a strong kaiju like Kiryu-Goji, they can rip into a much less armored foe like Showa MG.

Kiryu has ranged weapons, NONE of which did anything to Godzilla with the exception of physical attacks and his Maser cannon. Everything else was seemingly ignored by Godzilla.

Lets look at the defenses of the kaiju in question shall we?

Kiryu-Goji has amazing durability and can take a massive beating.
Showa Mecha-Godzilla has very low durability and was damaged by a ram from King Seesar. Kiryu took a hit from a Goji's beam that blasted it across a city with minimal damage, Showa MG, was sparking and smoking from rather unimpressive attacks like Showa Goji's breath weapon and King Seesar's rams and claw swips.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

My main man Showa MG will slaughter Heisei, but I question weither he can dance with 2 Kiryus MGs.

Since 80% of everything during the All out Assult missed Showa Goji it is safe to assume that the same will be for Kiryu.
He was firing at a mobile and smaller Showa Godzilla. Not to mention whatever form of vision that Showa MG has was likely blocked by the fire/smoke. When Showa G walked out of it, he imiediatly got nailed in the neck with his Eye Lasers.

What do you think a human pilot will react when getting hit with THAT? The pilot can't react if it can't see and will panic.

And Kiryu has a good amount of ranged weaponry as well
Pitiful wrist cannons, a slow as hell chest weapon and a Maser in the mouth?

The only thing Kiryu has going for him is the Missles, melee, and the chest weapon under certain circumstances (Like an enemy who will sit there and stare as it charges).

[Hybrid Gojira]

From what I remember, is that Kiryu-Goji is immune to the Masers which was why they developed Kiryu in the first place. That is also why Kiryu's Maser's are more powerful than the normal Masers.

Huh? So let me get this straight - they gave Kiryu a weapon that they knew Godzilla was IMMUNE to? Yeah, that makes sense. This Godzilla is weak against masers. If you remember the first movie, the masers used to stop Godzilla is his first big appearance were effective up to 80% of their normal power because of the rainstorm. Godzilla takes a shot to the face and pretty much goes on a rampage thereafter. I'm not claiming that the masers were going to kill him per se, but consider that weapons and other things used against him do NOTHING to him. Godzilla ignores them. In fact, he doesn't really react in many cases. Please tell me, why would Godzilla's reaction be so different when masers attack him compared to when everything else is? Obviously the masers are taking a toll on him. Yes, the Hyper Maser is more powerful and this makes sense because they observed a slight weakness in Goji when attacked by masers.


And since these beams are capable of hurting a strong kaiju like Kiryu-Goji, they can rip into a much less armored foe like Showa MG

Have you SEEN the showa movies? Godzilla is much, much more battered and bruised than you give him credit for. He literally spews blood and has missiles piercing his body from SHowa MG (which is a good indication of what will happen to ANY monster without some sort of strong hide). The missiles that Showa MG has are seemingly MADE to pierce objects and then explode - something that would certainly hurt most Godzillas (GMK being a possible exception).





Kiryu-Goji has amazing durability and can take a massive beating.

Seriously, go watch Godzilla vs. MG again. And to be frank, what Godzilla hasn't taken a massive beating?!?

Showa Mecha-Godzilla has very low durability and was damaged by a ram from King Seesar.

Really, we see damage?

Kiryu took a hit from a Goji's beam that blasted it across a city with minimal damage, Showa MG, was sparking and smoking from rather unimpressive attacks like Showa Goji's breath weapon and King Seesar's rams and claw swips.

I actually recall Kiryu smoldering and showing damage to his armor, which is not true of Showa MG. We know that a piece (maybe a foot long) is found after Ang fights MG, but little visible damage is ever seen to MG. Kiryu, on the other hand, does show damage. In some cases we know the armor melted.

[Orga777]

Huh? So let me get this straight - they gave Kiryu a weapon that they knew Godzilla was IMMUNE to? Yeah, that makes sense. This Godzilla is weak against masers. If you remember the first movie, the masers used to stop Godzilla is his first big appearance were effective up to 80% of their normal power because of the rainstorm. Godzilla takes a shot to the face and pretty much goes on a rampage thereafter. I'm not claiming that the masers were going to kill him per se, but consider that weapons and other things used against him do NOTHING to him. Godzilla ignores them. In fact, he doesn't really react in many cases. Please tell me, why would Godzilla's reaction be so different when masers attack him compared to when everything else is? Obviously the masers are taking a toll on him. Yes, the Hyper Maser is more powerful and this makes sense because they observed a slight weakness in Goji when attacked by masers.

Alright, I conceed this part of the debate. I need to retwatch that movie again....

Have you SEEN the showa movies? Godzilla is much, much more battered and bruised than you give him credit for. He literally spews blood and has missiles piercing his body from SHowa MG (which is a good indication of what will happen to ANY monster without some sort of strong hide). The missiles that Showa MG has are seemingly MADE to pierce objects and then explode - something that would certainly hurt most Godzillas (GMK being a possible exception).

And you are taking about SHOWA GODZILLA! His defense is not one to be admired. You are comparing to very diffrent kaiju defenses here. Showa Goji lacks the defense of Kiryu who has taken very nasty shots espcially compared to those of Showa Goji, unless you can point out an instance where Showa Goji was blasted across a city and received minimal damge.

I actually recall Kiryu smoldering and showing damage to his armor, which is not true of Showa MG. We know that a piece (maybe a foot long) is found after Ang fights MG, but little visible damage is ever seen to MG. Kiryu, on the other hand, does show damage. In some cases we know the armor melted.

I said minimal damage.;) The mech was operational, and it took a shot that blasted him across a city. If that was the Showa version, it would have been in peices. Kieyu's weaponry is not to be underestimated like a lot of you obviously are underestimating. Did it ever occure to you that maybe, just maybe since Kiryu's use Masers which have hurt a much more DURABLE Godzilla will damage the defense lacking mech that is Showa MG?

God, this is why I hate debates with Showa MG and Showa Hedorah. Everyone brings up stuff about SHOWA Godzilla's beam and tries to compare it to beams of STRONGER Godzilla's like Kiryu-Goji, GMK, and Heisei.

[anguirus55]

What do you think a human pilot will react when getting hit with THAT? The pilot can't react if it can't see and will panic.

Why? Kiryu is usually controlled by remote.

Pitiful wrist cannons, a slow as hell chest weapon and a Maser in the mouth?

I'll give you the wrist cannon, though I think they would do a bit of damage since they are so focused. Chest weapons? The AZC takes a second or two, but it's one-shot one-kill. The Hyper Maser is faster and is a big whammy. The mouth maser is meh, but certainly is hot enough to do a little damage.

Only the Hyper Maser is comparable to Showa MG's eye lasers, but that's counterbalanced by Kiryu's durability. Regardless, Showa MG and Kiryu are perfectly capable of blasting each other to scrap from afar, though Kiryu would probably have to rely on his copious missiles to do the trick.

Really, we see damage?

Yes, as a matter of fact.

I actually recall Kiryu smoldering and showing damage to his armor

The only time in both films when Kiryu suffers any armor damage is when the White Heron fires upon it in SOS. This maser fire left small, visible scorched holes, but *did not* get penetration. In GxMG his arm is blown off at the joint when he tries to clamp Godzilla's mouth shut underwater.

In no other circumstance, when being hit with Godzilla's blast, flung, or in melee, does Kiryu's armor plate become compromised.

In GvsMG, we observe that under typical melee conditions, MG loses pieces of armor. Anguirus and Godzilla do not appear to get penetration, but losing pieces like that would weaken the armor's integrity. In addition, as noted above, his armor is visibly compromised at the neck area by King Seesar. Finally, when MG explodes, not a single armor plate survives intact. All his armor is blown into extremely fine pieces.

MG's defensive capability is therefore somewhat questionable. He has his shield but that clearly limits him, plus I imagine that it draws a lot of power. (And, as observed, Kiryu's missiles can make a course change of 90 degrees in flight to converge straight down onto Godzilla.)

Did it ever occure to you that maybe, just maybe since Kiryu's use Masers which have hurt a much more DURABLE Godzilla will damage the defense lacking mech that is Showa MG?

With regards to Kiryu-Godzilla: his durability is obvious, with regards to his ability to sustain missile impact. But although he is not visibly damaged by maser fire, he is seemingly wracked by pain every time. The power of masers in this Godzilla-verse is impossible to quantify, but the nature of the sustained-beam masers seems to be that they spread out and shock/burn kaiju over a fairly wide area. This makes them excellent weapons to repulse and stun kaiju, but not to cause physical damage to the skin.

HOWEVER, once Godzilla's body cavity was essentially exposed by the drill of Kiryu v.2 (a weapon Showa MG had better watch out for) the Hyper Maser finished the job of taking him out of the fight.

So it is quite possible for the masers to be less-effective against a mechanical kaiju. However, the mecha have the weakness of possibly having delicate components fused if their outer armor cannot insulate them from the effects of the maser. Remember when Showa MG was crippled by the explosion when his eye beams met Godzilla's blast? This design flaw could be dangerous if nearly his entire outer skin is being heated up by maser fire from Kiryu.

[Hybrid Gojira]

And you are taking about SHOWA GODZILLA! His defense is not one to be admired. You are comparing to very diffrent kaiju defenses here. Showa Goji lacks the defense of Kiryu who has taken very nasty shots espcially compared to those of Showa Goji, unless you can point out an instance where Showa Goji was blasted across a city and received minimal damge.

I'm not saying SHowa Goji's defenses are on par with Kiryu Goji's. I am saying that Showa Goji has taken more visible damage than you admit and continued to fight. Against SHowa MG, he was bleeding everywhere and continued to push his way through more and more attacks. If not for the electrical storm and his new ability to draw MG in via magnetism, he would have lost as would have Shisa. If Kiryu Goji more durable? I'm sure, but that doesn't mean Showa Mg wouldn't do massive damage to him.



I said minimal damage.;) The mech was operational, and it took a shot that blasted him across a city. If that was the Showa version, it would have been in peices. Kieyu's weaponry is not to be underestimated like a lot of you obviously are underestimating. Did it ever occure to you that maybe, just maybe since Kiryu's use Masers which have hurt a much more DURABLE Godzilla will damage the defense lacking mech that is Showa MG?

Not really, since the Godzilla in question has a noted weakness against Masers. I might point out that we never see Godzilla take tissue damage from the maser. What we DO see is the energy pulsing through his body and overwhelming him. That is because the maser was a weakness.

God, this is why I hate debates with Showa MG and Showa Hedorah. Everyone brings up stuff about SHOWA Godzilla's beam and tries to compare it to beams of STRONGER Godzilla's like Kiryu-Goji, GMK, and Heisei.

Uhh, exactly where did I do such a thing? SHowa Goji's beam is nothing to compare with those. I never said anything to the contrary.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Why? Kiryu is usually controlled by remote.
My bad. Forgot Kiryu was controled from a Jet....x___x


, when MG explodes, not a single armor plate survives intact. All his armor is blown into extremely fine pieces.
Which came from the inside out, a nasty one at that. I wouldn't expect much of anything out of that.

His head did survive though...

Chest weapons? The AZC takes a second or two, but it's one-shot one-kill.
His arms are spread apart, he becomes completly immobile and energy is being drawn toward his center. Showa MG isn't going to wait around to see what happens.


I think that his durability is average/above average, he's just touchy when he gets hit, becoming stunned in every instances when he is struck.

[Gorjirus]

The AZC takes a second or two, but it's one-shot one-kill.

If it hits properly. If Godzilla had wanted, he could have truely trashed Kiryu after getting the partial blast.

Kiryu is usually controlled by remote

Not Kiryu V1. Did it? I thought it had a pilot the entire time. (It's been a while since I watched it).

Showa Hedorah

Hehehe.

Hey Orga, wasn't it you who was talking about Biollante and Godzilla's beam? Well, if Hedorah is immune to Showa Godzilla's beam, shouldn't he be immune to all Godzilla's beam in the same vein of thought that Biollante is weak to all Godzilla's beams?

:p

[Hybrid Gojira]

In no other circumstance, when being hit with Godzilla's blast, flung, or in melee, does Kiryu's armor plate become compromised.

It was certainly enough to knock Kiryu out of the bout for awhile. ANd the plate IS melted.

In GvsMG, we observe that under typical melee conditions, MG loses pieces of armor. Anguirus and Godzilla do not appear to get penetration, but losing pieces like that would weaken the armor's integrity. In addition, as noted above, his armor is visibly compromised at the neck area by King Seesar.

I do not recall the scene with our lion friend but I shall not argue that point. Again, I don't think that the armor is falling apart as you might claim. We see one piece after his battle with Ang (which is a very nasty attack with Ang's armor flung and concentrated at MG's shoulder) and that is it. Yes sparks fly, but then the do for Titanosaurus AND when the heat ray hits the ground below Titanosaurus.


Finally, when MG explodes, not a single armor plate survives intact. All his armor is blown into extremely fine pieces.

I venture to say that depending on where the explosion originated and the size, Kiryu might just do the same. An explosion from within is going to greatly effect MG much more than from without. In fact, we have no idea just what exploded within MG. It could have been numerous simultaneous explosions.

He has his shield but that clearly limits him, plus I imagine that it draws a lot of power. (And, as observed, Kiryu's missiles can make a course change of 90 degrees in flight to converge straight down onto Godzilla.)

That's not even in question by me.

With regards to Kiryu-Godzilla: his durability is obvious, with regards to his ability to sustain missile impact. But although he is not visibly damaged by maser fire, he is seemingly wracked by pain every time. The power of masers in this Godzilla-verse is impossible to quantify, but the nature of the sustained-beam masers seems to be that they spread out and shock/burn kaiju over a fairly wide area. This makes them excellent weapons to repulse and stun kaiju, but not to cause physical damage to the skin.

That's a better way of explaining what I meant earlier.

Remember when Showa MG was crippled by the explosion when his eye beams met Godzilla's blast? This design flaw could be dangerous if nearly his entire outer skin is being heated up by maser fire from Kiryu.

I'm not quite sure how those two are the same. Please do tell. =)

[anguirus55]

I wouldn't expect much of anything out of that.

His head did survive though...

Armor is a big sheet of metal. Good armor does not fly into pieces. If big hunks of melted metal hit the dirt at Godzilla's feet, I'd be more inclined to be charitable. But obviously the rivets-and-titanium thing isn't optimal for combat.

And since when did his head survive intact? It looked like everything blew. But even if it did, a great deal of the energy that would have affected it was stopped by the armor plate that blew to smithereens that was between it and whatever blew up.

His arms are spread apart, he becomes completly immobile and energy is being drawn toward his center. Showa MG isn't going to wait around to see what happens.

Agreed, which is why Kiryu doesn't employ that until he has a good chance.

Although you have a curious definition of "immobile." The whole end of GxMG depends on Kiryu rocketing toward Godzilla and grabbing him while charging the AZC...

becoming stunned in every instances when he is struck.

By "struck" do you mean "sent half a kilometer by Kiryu-Godzilla's blast?"

Because I don't see either other MG getting up from that at all!

If it hits properly. If Godzilla had wanted, he could have truely trashed Kiryu after getting the partial blast.

He didn't know that Kiryu was out of power, his eye was injured, and his chest was all bloody. I would have left too.

Not Kiryu V1. Did it? I thought it had a pilot the entire time. (It's been a while since I watched it).

You are incorrect, sir. (And I watched it three days ago.)

Well, if Hedorah is immune to Showa Godzilla's beam, shouldn't he be immune to all Godzilla's beam in the same vein of thought that Biollante is weak to all Godzilla's beams?

You're kidding, right?

OK, in case you're not...Hedorah is not immune to Godzilla's blast, but resistant. Stronger (usually MUCH stronger) blasts would succeed in doing damage.

Assuming that GFW Hedorah is not COMPLETELY different in nature from Showa Hedorah (and why would we do that?), we get a good idea of what a stronger blast would do to the Smog Monster in GFW. :darklord:

Die, no-limits fallacies. Die painfully.

ANd the plate IS melted.

Would you be so kind as to point out where we see significant heat damage to Kiryu's armor? (And I hope you don't consider a maintenance hatch armor, that thing is very thin.)

We see one piece after his battle with Ang (which is a very nasty attack with Ang's armor flung and concentrated at MG's shoulder) and that is it.

I won't argue that it's a nasty hit, but we've certainly seen stronger mecha take nastier hits without shedding.

An explosion from within is going to greatly effect MG much more than from without.

Of course, but armor is not doing to totally frag from an internal explosion unless it's just not that great. Look what happens when MOGERA is dispatched. What you'd expect is for all internal components to fuse and for all the joints and seams to blow out in a catastrophic internal explosion. If the armor was going to fail, it would be melted. But what kind of armor plaing blows apart? It's either very thin or it is composed of many tiny pieces, either of which is BAD.

I'm not quite sure how those two are the same. Please do tell. =)

Sure. MG goes haywire because of a tremendous explosion close by. This could have disrupted internal components via shockwave, but I very much doubt it. Why? Because MG may be weak in melee, but he takes all kinds of hard hits without having his "head controls" mess up. So it's probably heat transfer from the explosion. If you heat up his armor enough, insufficently-shielded internal components get damaged. Kiryu's maser is perfect for heating up a lot of armor, even if it's not much for pentration. Even better, it can be sustained for a good while.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

And since when did his head survive intact? It looked like everything blew. But even if it did, a great deal of the energy that would have affected it was stopped by the armor plate that blew to smithereens that was between it and whatever blew up.
Someone hasn't seen ToMG! :p

Although you have a curious definition of "immobile." The whole end of GxMG depends on Kiryu rocketing toward Godzilla and grabbing him while charging the AZC...
He was using boosters, I don't remember him walking while charging.

EDIT:-

By "struck" do you mean "sent half a kilometer by Kiryu-Godzilla's blast?"

Because I don't see either other MG getting up from that at all!
I was reffering to the Showa version.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Would you be so kind as to point out where we see significant heat damage to Kiryu's armor? (And I hope you don't consider a maintenance hatch armor, that thing is very thin.)

We see Kiryu on the ground in SOS, smoldering and damaged. I don't know where exactly it occurs, but I do remember this quite well (I can't say I watched it 3 days ago but I did watch it last week).



I won't argue that it's a nasty hit, but we've certainly seen stronger mecha take nastier hits without shedding.

A tiny piece of metal came off. Its not like there was a shower of metal. Not too shabby if you ask me.


Of course, but armor is not doing to totally frag from an internal explosion unless it's just not that great. Look what happens when MOGERA is dispatched. What you'd expect is for all internal components to fuse and for all the joints and seams to blow out in a catastrophic internal explosion. If the armor was going to fail, it would be melted. But what kind of armor plaing blows apart? It's either very thin or it is composed of many tiny pieces, either of which is BAD.

I think you missed my point. An internal explosion would compromise everything. We know MG was blown apart from within, and from what I recall Mogs is from without. That is huge difference.



Sure. MG goes haywire because of a tremendous explosion close by. This could have disrupted internal components via shockwave, but I very much doubt it. Why? Because MG may be weak in melee, but he takes all kinds of hard hits without having his "head controls" mess up. So it's probably heat transfer from the explosion. If you heat up his armor enough, insufficently-shielded internal components get damaged. Kiryu's maser is perfect for heating up a lot of armor, even if it's not much for pentration. Even better, it can be sustained for a good while.

Now that's a good point. =)

[Gorjirus]

You're kidding, right?

OK, in case you're not...Hedorah is not immune to Godzilla's blast, but resistant. Stronger (usually MUCH stronger) blasts would succeed in doing damage.

Assuming that GFW Hedorah is not COMPLETELY different in nature from Showa Hedorah (and why would we do that?), we get a good idea of what a stronger blast would do to the Smog Monster in GFW.

Die, no-limits fallacies. Die painfully.


Thank you for agreeing with me. In a some what round about way. ;)

You are incorrect, sir.

Thank you for the correction.

Though, then what was the point of Akane piloting it? Seems like someone extra is on the payroll.

[anguirus55]

Kiryu's reciever was damaged in the incident where Godzilla blasted him as he was charging the AZC. Akane had to land and enter through a maintenence hatch to continue the battle.

This is a possible weakness of Kiryu's, unless we assume that there is a backup pilot in there after all.

[anguirus55]

Somehow I missed Hybrid's post (EDIT: And Darkside's!) yesterday, so here goes.

Someone hasn't seen ToMG!

Meh. ToMG is riddled with errors, up to and including the fact that they are looking for MG pieces in the WRONG PLACE. Moreover, it supplies no evidence that the head survived, only that the Interpol thought it did. I thought that the aliens just grabbed whatever pieces they could find from raw materials and had to largely start from scratch rebuilding. Or, it could be another blatant inconsistency, because MG is GONE at the end of GvsMG.

He was using boosters, I don't remember him walking while charging.

Off the top of my head, I can't either, but he can fly, grab, and FIGHT while it's charging, so no biggie.

I was reffering to the Showa version.

My bad. Well, the durability discussion is proceeding merrily apace. I would consider his durabilty below average, just because kaiju in recent years take so much more punishment in general than their Showa counterparts.

We see Kiryu on the ground in SOS, smoldering and damaged. I don't know where exactly it occurs, but I do remember this quite well (I can't say I watched it 3 days ago but I did watch it last week).

The other incident that comes to mind is the shot to the face he takes that destroys his eye. I think some of the head armor (of necessity less formidable) is damaged here, as well as, of course, critical internal components that require a bypass.

This is the only visible damage Kiryu has at the end of the film, IIRC. And it's worth noting that very few kaiju will survive a point-blank shot to the face from Kiryu-Godzilla, since he can effortlessly whip off shots that fling the larger Kiryu left and right at long-range.

A tiny piece of metal came off. Its not like there was a shower of metal. Not too shabby if you ask me.

Yeah, but considering the number of similar hits MG takes this can't be the only time pieces fall off. It isn't disastrous, just Very Not Good. It's not like he armor as penetrated, but for every brick-sized piece that comes off, the integrity is obviously weakened.

I think you missed my point. An internal explosion would compromise everything. We know MG was blown apart from within, and from what I recall Mogs is from without. That is huge difference.

Why would it blow armor into tiny pieces, just because the explosion is coming from one direction and not the other? I guess what I'm saying is, yes, a mecha's power plant going is a significant explosion, and if it melted the armor or left it in fragments along the seams I would understand perfectly. But completely shredding it? MG gets no biscuit from me. And besides, Godzilla stood up from that blast with NO INJURY, so frankly, there is only so energetic that explosion could have been. No significant velocity was imparted to the remaining pieces, because they just find of fell from the sky instead of butchering Godzilla and everything within two miles.

I'm not sure if MOGERA's power plant ever went, but during Heisei MG's demise the armor plate melted instead of blowing into a snowstorm of little titanium pieces. That makes more sense.

Now that's a good point. =)

Thanks!

[Hybrid Gojira]

I don't think MG's armor is nearly as weak as you do Ang, but at the moment I'm conceeding. No point in being pwned any more. As for Kiryu, I hope he dies a painful and horrible death in the DD!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAH!!

Actually I probably would have voted for him if I could've picked 2 MGs...but alas I had to go with the "better" version... =)

[Gorjirus]

Heisei MG's demise the armor plate melted

I thought the armor plating melted when Rodan "mistified"? Which was before MG was fully defeated.

[anguirus55]

Actually, you can vote for a Kiryu and another MG, the way it's set up. Not sure why, but I'm glad of it. So I gave Showa MG the nod as well.

Bits of the synthetic diamond coating were melting when Rodan vaporized itself (one of the few good depictions of such an event in sci-fi...vaporizing a solid doesn't make it disappear, it creates a lot of amazingly hot gas), but when Godzilla dispatched it and its nuclear reactor blew, the whole thing just melted into unrecognizability.

Astonishingly, MG stayed intact through several blasts of the red beam even AFTER its synthetic diamond plaing was compromised, though the heat ultimately destroyed the craft.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Actually, you can vote for a Kiryu and another MG, the way it's set up. Not sure why, but I'm glad of it. So I gave Showa MG the nod as well.


*sigh*

That's what I get for not taking my time.