Heisei series and Turtles

[G2KMaster]

Reading over an article on ScifiJapan from three years ago, it said that in 2003 Shusuke Kaneko said that the actual turtle animal does not exist in the Heisei time line. Thiese did not exist:



So, what do you think of this twist in the Heisei continuity and how do you think it could be used if an official fourth Gamera film was made?

[Zigra]

Originally Posted by G2KMaster

So, what do you think of this twist in the Heisei continuity and how do you think it could be used if an official fourth Gamera film was made?

Honestly, I think G3 took the story about as far as it could go, and making a sequel to that would be just redundant.

[G2KMaster]

And about Kaneko revealing that there are no such things as turtles in the Gamera trilogy.

[Goji Son]

Originally Posted by G2KMaster

And about Kaneko revealing that there are no such things as turtles in the Gamera trilogy.

It doesn't really add anything to the story. There is nothing interesting about the idea and it doesn't really effect the characters because they don't know about turtles in the first place. It's just a random piece of trivia.

[Darth Reaper]

I can't help but feel that the idea that turtles don't exist in the Heisei Gamera seems a bit silly. I don't see what such a thing really achieves. And, if it were up to me to do future Gamera films that take place in that series I'd probably disregard this particular idea.

And, I still disagree with the idea that G3 took the story as far as it can go. I think there are at least one or two more good stories that could be told in that series.

[G2KMaster]

I haven't seen G3 yet, so I cannot fully comment on that. But what I can say is that there is alittle bit left, for Shusuke Kaneko's explainations for not having the actual animal "turtle" would actualy make one think why the whole concept of "minogame" would even be brought up. And a new Gamera film could cover some stuff, in fact I am writing some stuff right now, but I shall post it over the weekend...

[Hybrid Gojira]

I think turtles not existing in G3 helps Kaneko explain away the perceived (and accurate when talking about the Showa films) silliness that is a giant turtle flying like a saucer and breathing fire - it helps the way he directs and the characters are received by the audience.

As for a sequel, I'm sure Kaneko could make something out of it, but it would seem to me Gamera was going to either kill himself using a bunch of mana and taking out a lot of gyoas or he was just going to get thrashed. There is no way he could beat the Gyaos healthy, let alone with one arm and totally ravaged by Irys.

[kpa]

Hybrid Gojira explained it very well. Over the years I've often seen people knock Gamera because "he's just a big turtle", but turtles and tortoises have great significance in Asian mythology and folklore. The Hindus believed the world was held aloft by four elephants standing on the shell of a massive tortoise, the Chinese saw the turtle as representing one of the four elements (water), and in Japanese legends the tortoise Genbu is the most powerful of four guardians maintaining balance on earth.

The Showa films and GAMERA THE BRAVE tie Gamera to turtles (particularly small, cute ones). But-- by making it that turtles don't exist in the Heisei Gamera universe-- Kaneko instead links Gamera to the ancient and powerful guardian creatures of legend. GAMERA 3 even directly connects Gamera to Genbu.

Since the "no turtles" concept is never stated in any of the films it doesn't have any obvious impact and most people won't even notice it (I didn't until I heard Kaneko's comment). But by making Gamera a creature straight out of mythology it changes the character and symbolism of the monster as well as how it is perceived by the other characters in the films.. so it's as if a creature from legend or the Old Testament suddenly appeared in the modern world. I like that the change is so subtle and yet so far-reaching in its scope.

For anyone who wants to know more about Gamera and his connections to Japanese mythology, here's a link to a great article by Sean Kotz:

http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2...mera-a-turtle/

[G2KMaster]

But then how did people come up with the image of the turtle for the mytholgic creatures of Genbu and Minogame? I find it hard to belive that they just created the image like a dragon.

[kpa]

Originally Posted by G2KMaster

But then how did people come up with the image of the turtle for the mytholgic creatures of Genbu and Minogame?

They were creative. Look at all the interesting, bizarre and crazy things people have thought up over the centuries... you really think the design of a turtle would have been too difficult to someone to have imagined? It's basically a lizard with a shell on it's back.

I find it hard to belive that they just created the image like a dragon.

I don't.

[Goji Son]

Originally Posted by G2KMaster

But then how did people come up with the image of the turtle for the mytholgic creatures of Genbu and Minogame? I find it hard to belive that they just created the image like a dragon.

The discovery of dinosaur fossils is one possible reason as to why people believed in dragons.

[G2KMaster]

But dragons are based on something. What creature would bring on the idea of a turtle?

[Zigra]

Originally Posted by G2KMaster

But dragons are based on something. What creature would bring on the idea of a turtle?

I would assume that Gamera is the source of turtles in mythology in that universe.

[G2KMaster]

So Gamera himself started a religeous icon which he himself is based on. That's deep.

[Goji Son]

Originally Posted by G2KMaster

So Gamera himself started a religeous icon which he himself is based on. That's deep.

Like the article said, he is Genbu in the Heisei series. In that universe, he's the origins of Genbu just like Iris is the Crimson Phoenix in the South. They were created before the advent of Chinese and Japanese culture and they saw Gamera and Iris as gods.