Wizard magazine's top 100 greatest villains ever list.

[Zigra]

That thingamajig that destroyed Voldemort was mentioned as early at the second book?

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Gorjirus

And guess what? If you go by the grand scope, he would STILL be a more memorable villian than Sephiroth.

That is utter bull.

So? Ridley > Metroid > Sephiroth.

Um... no.

Fanboy popularity =/= memorable OR great villian.

Screw teh fanboy popularity because all the other villains you name have just as many fanboys as FFVII does and still fail the characters to get far in the list. In general Sephiroth is one of the most memorable villains of all time for the same reason FFVII is one of the most popular and critically acclaimed games of all time. And he is definitly one of the best villains in videogame history, especially compared to the inept villains (Ridley and Metriod excluded) you named earlier.

Originally Posted by Cole Deschain

Your Dragoon buddy in FFII, for one. Yeah, he flipflopped... but really...

Kain? He didn't just flipflop, he switched sides so many times my head spun. And he had so much less depth than Sephiroth that it isn't even funny.

Darth Vader did the fallen hero thing much better. (Because lalalalalalalatheprequelsdon'texist)

Ok. But Darth Vader should be placed in the upper area of the list and definitly higher (or lower, which ever) than Sephiroth IMO. So what is your point? I just think Sephiroth should be on the list since he deserves it.

Wow, your standards are even lower than I would have imagined possible.

Or your standards are just WAY too high...

By VIDEO game standards?
Sure, maybe they had "depth." By which you must actually mean "history," because the FFVII crew was two-dimensional in the extreme (which is what happens when designers choose form over content)

Eh. I don't really agree. Sure I can see the FFVI squad as being more animated than the FFVII squad, but they are not quite as deep as the FFVII characters.

But the standards of well-developed characters, people I can actually GIVE a crap about?

Not even close.

But that is you. Not everyone agrees sadly. They are some of my favorite FF characters of all time.

[godofPH]

Originally Posted by Zigra

That thingamajig that destroyed Voldemort was mentioned as early at the second book?

The Elder Wand has been around since Book 1 (as it had been Dumbledore's wand since the 1940's), although it was never named or its significance touched upon until the 7th Book. The Horcruxes (magical artifacts containing pieces of Voldy's soul, allowing him to remain immortal as long as at least one Horcrux exists) weren't named until the 6th book, but one was encountered (and destroyed) in the second book.

[Cole Deschain]

Originally Posted by godofPH

The Elder Wand has been around since Book 1 (as it had been Dumbledore's wand since the 1940's), although it was never named or its significance touched upon until the 7th Book. The Horcruxes (magical artifacts containing pieces of Voldy's soul, allowing him to remain immortal as long as at least one Horcrux exists) weren't named until the 6th book, but one was encountered (and destroyed) in the second book.

Sounds like a load of "how can I tie this off succinctly" CRAP to me.

Originally Posted by Orga777

Kain? He didn't just flipflop, he switched sides so many times my head spun. And he had so much less depth than Sephiroth that it isn't even funny.

You see less depth.

I see less self-pitying Emo "I wanna cut myself AND the world" crap.

Eh. I don't really agree. Sure I can see the FFVI squad as being more animated than the FFVII squad, but they are not quite as deep as the FFVII characters.

Deep? Where are you getting this "deep" business?

They were the traditional "band of misfits out to save the world."

Complete with broody angst-ridden hero.

Honestly.

Explain this "depth" you're perceiving.

They are some of my favorite FF characters of all time.

You're entitled.

[godofPH]

Originally Posted by Cole Deschain

Sounds like a load of "how can I tie this off succinctly" CRAP to me.

No, it's how the whole series was written. Seemingly minor things that would be casually mentioned or briefly seen in one book would come back in later books to have major significance later on.

Here are some examples:

Sirius Black- He is mentioned once in the first chapter of the first book as lending Hagrid his flying motorcycle and returns in the third book to be revealed as Harry's Godfather and becomes a major character throughout the fourth and fifth books until his death at the end of Order of the Phoenix.

The Vanishing Cabinet- A vanishing cabinet that was destroyed by Peeves (a mischievous poltergeist is seen in Filch's (the Castle's Caretaker) office during the second book. In the 6th Book, Draco Malfoy utilizes the same vanishing cabinet to transport a squadron of Death Eaters into the castle.

Ginny Weasely- She's only seen twice in the Sorcerer's Stone (the first book), yet in the next book she would be integral to the plot, and eventually she becomes Harry Potter's girlfriend (6th book) and later wife (Epilogue of the Deathly Hallows).

Cedric Diggory- This Hufflepuff prefect is first seen during a Quidditch match during the third book. This is his only mentioning in the book, yet in the fourth book, Cedric Diggory becomes Hogwarts's Representative for the cross-school competition, the Tri-Wizard Tournament. He is one of the major characters of book four, and is the first casualty of Voldemort's return to power.

Blood Purity- The rallying cry of Voldemort and his Death Eaters. The Dark Lord and his followers have their mission: to eliminate half blooded and muggle-born wizards and witches from the world. This is a major conflict during the 2nd, 5th, 6th, and 7th books, but it is first touched upon as early as the first book. In the first book, when Harry meets Draco Malfoy in Madam Malkin's Robe shop, Malfoy laments that he thinks only children from "the old wizarding families" should be allowed into Hogwarts. Blood Purity is not mentioned or brought up for the rest of the Sorcerer's Stone, but appears in full force during the Chamber of Secrets (Book 2) when the supposed Heir of Slytherin is issuing threats against Muggle-born students at Hogwarts.

There's more of course, but that's just a sampling of the foreshadowing that crazily runs through the Potter series, and how the Elder Wand and the Horcruxes were not something that was just made up.

[Zigra]

Originally Posted by godofPH

The Elder Wand has been around since Book 1 (as it had been Dumbledore's wand since the 1940's), although it was never named or its significance touched upon until the 7th Book. The Horcruxes (magical artifacts containing pieces of Voldy's soul, allowing him to remain immortal as long as at least one Horcrux exists) weren't named until the 6th book, but one was encountered (and destroyed) in the second book.

And, yet, Voldemort is still killed by what? No, not a final struggle against his arch-nemesis. He's killed by grabbing something that doesn't belong to him. Sorry, but that's a lame death no matter how much you say it's been "foreshadowed".

[Gorjirus]

That is utter bull.

No its not.

You want to be truely memorable, then the general populace knows it.

Sephiroth isn't. Donkey Kong is.

Um... no.

Fine.

Ridley>Metroid>Everyone else except... > ... Sephiroth

Screw teh fanboy popularity because all the other villains you name have just as many fanboys as FFVII does and still fail the characters to get far in the list. In general Sephiroth is one of the most memorable villains of all time for the same reason FFVII is one of the most popular and critically acclaimed games of all time. And he is definitly one of the best villains in videogame history, especially compared to the inept villains (Ridley and Metriod excluded) you named earlier.

You're not getting the real meaining of memorable. And outside of fanboys, Sephiroth only has a few who seem him as such. You get rid of the others "fanboys", and you are left with many many more that are left, making it much more memorable.

[godofPH]

Originally Posted by Zigra

And, yet, Voldemort is still killed by what? No, not a final struggle against his arch-nemesis. He's killed by grabbing something that doesn't belong to him. Sorry, but that's a lame death no matter how much you say it's been "foreshadowed".

He was killed by his own ego. Harry did quite a good job of warning him that the Elder Wand wasn't his to use, yet Voldy still tried to kill the true Master of the Elder Wand with the Elder Wand itself.

[Burkion]

It was still a STUPID death, PH.

There's no two bits about it: it was a stupid death, for what ended up being a stupid, incompetent villain who could no more rule the world then solve a jigsaw puzzle. And I'm not talking about the complex ones: I mean the three peice ones. With instructions.

[Gorjirus]

If you ignore a weapon that will kill your foe easily, and instead for for one that is much more iffy but "cooler", you don't get any respect from me.

And I still would have bought 10 copies if SOMEONE had just used a gun. They're even illegal in Britain! That would even make it more "Evil". What an idiot.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Gorjirus

No its not.

You want to be truely memorable, then the general populace knows it.

Wait... so you think the general populace of the gaming community doesn't know who Sephiroth is?
You are HILARIOUS Gor.

You may not like the game or character but saying that is so totally false that it isn't even funny. Especially considering FFVII alone is one of the most successful games of all time.

Sephiroth isn't. Donkey Kong is.

Not quite.

Fine.

Ridley>Metroid>Everyone else except... > ... Sephiroth

I lol'd

You're not getting the real meaining of memorable. And outside of fanboys, Sephiroth only has a few who seem him as such. You get rid of the others "fanboys", and you are left with many many more that are left, making it much more memorable.

Again. LOL. Gor, there are fanboys out their for just about every game or character. And while Sephiroth may have his fair share, saying that most of FFVII fans are 'fanboys' is so false and over-exaggerated that it is rather sad that you think that. Because you are totally WRONG.

Originally Posted by Cole Deschain

You see less depth.
I see less self-pitying Emo "I wanna cut myself AND the world" crap.

What? Kain was pretty much the first emo FF character.

Deep? Where are you getting this "deep" business?
They were the traditional "band of misfits out to save the world."
Complete with broody angst-ridden hero.
Honestly.
Explain this "depth" you're perceiving.

Something called more character development? In FFVI the characters were not as well explored as they are in FFVII. They had more history and character driven story than the characters in FFVI. While the FFVI characters, I will agree are much more animated than the FFVII characters, it doesn't make them deeper or more interesting as the FFVII characters who are a lot more interesting IMO.

[Gorjirus]

Wait... so you think the general populace of the gaming community doesn't know who Sephiroth is?
You are HILARIOUS Gor.

You may not like the game or character but saying that is so totally false that it isn't even funny. Especially considering FFVII alone is one of the most successful games of all time.

Wait...did I say that? No, you just can't read tonight.

Again. LOL. Gor, there are fanboys out their for just about every game or character. And while Sephiroth may have his fair share, saying that most of FFVII fans are 'fanboys' is so false and over-exaggerated that it is rather sad that you think that. Because you are totally WRONG.

Did I say that? Uh no. I said few who would see him as memorable. And, since I gave an opposite example, it means relatively few (giving that I know the number is more than 3).

Read and comprehend Orga. It helps.

[Neo-Crucifer]

Y'know, I just re-read the list, and now I'm genuinely concerned...



How is it that Sephiroth makes it on the list and yet we've no mention of S.H.O.D.A.N., one of the best (if not THE best) video game villains ever?!

[SuperXAsh]

I'd chance a guess Crucifer and would point to the fact that System Shock 2 has been tragically looked over by most of the gaming community in general. So it doesn't surprise me that SHODAN was ignored in this list.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Gorjirus

Wait...did I say that? No, you just can't read tonight.

Uh-huh...

You said:
You want to be truely memorable, then thegeneral populace knows it.
Sephiroth isn't. Donkey Kong is.

That sure as hell implies what I just said.

Did I say that? Uh no. I said few who would see him as memorable. And, since I gave an opposite example, it means relatively few (giving that I know the number is more than 3).

Read and comprehend Orga. It helps.

Uh-huh...
You said:
And outside of fanboys, Sephiroth only has a few who seem him as such.

That sure as hell implies that most Sephiroth fans are considered 'fanboys' by you.

Oh, and considering Sephiroth is one of the most popular villains of all time (and not just by fanboys Gor) I think you should really reconsider what you are claiming. Go look around. I think I will help you with that.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/694/694399p1.html
http://www.gamespot.com/features/vgs...ins/index.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...0/ai_n14906687
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/top10/1266.html


And because it is funny...<.<
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/top10/1375.html

[Neo-Crucifer]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Oh, and considering Sephiroth is one of the most popular villains of all time (and not just by fanboys Gor)

Hell, Xerxes from 300 is probably more popular than that sad sack.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Neo-Crucifer

Hell, Xerxes from 300 is probably more popular than that sad sack.

Of course this is coming from you. Who hates Sephiroth as much, if not more than Cole does.

[Neo-Crucifer]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Of course this is coming from you. Who hates Sephiroth as much, if not more than Cole does.

I don't hate him, I just recognize that he's inferior to about 95% percent of the fictional villain population. It would do well for you to see the light, Orga, rather than wander blindly in pointless Sephiroth fanboyism.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Neo-Crucifer

I don't hate him, I just recognize that he's inferior to about 95% percent of the fictional villain population. It would do well for you to see the light, Orga, rather than wander blindly in pointless Sephiroth fanboyism.

Pfft.
Yeah, you keep on not noticing the obvious on Sephiroth's deserved spot in the Top 100.

[Gorjirus]

Uh-huh...

You said:
You want to be truely memorable, then thegeneral populace knows it.
Sephiroth isn't. Donkey Kong is.

That sure as hell implies what I just said.

No it doesn't. General Populace

Read it. Understand it.

Uh-huh...
You said:
And outside of fanboys, Sephiroth only has a few who seem him as such.

That sure as hell implies that most Sephiroth fans are considered 'fanboys' by you.

Oh, and considering Sephiroth is one of the most popular villains of all time (and not just by fanboys Gor) I think you should really reconsider what you are claiming. Go look around. I think I will help you with that.

I hope you realize that those links don't help your case at all.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Gorjirus

No it doesn't. General Populace

Read it. Understand it.

If you mean overall, then I guess you are right. But I don't get why because he isn't known by any non-gamer means he isn't popular. So I really don't see why you would say that anyway. For example, except for the mainstream comic villains (Joker, Doc Ock, Lex Luther, Doctor Doom, and a few other exceptions) most people have no idea who the hell most of the other villains are. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be on the list though. So really, I don't see why that is important.

I hope you realize that those links don't help your case at all.

Ok... But it also doesn't hurt it. Nor does it help your argument. Especially since, you know, you think mostly only fanboys think Sephiroth is a good villain. Which is still a giant load of bull.

[Cole Deschain]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Of course this is coming from you. Who hates Sephiroth as much, if not more than Cole does.

Lies.

None can hate Sephiroth more than I. It's not possible.

[Zigra]

Originally Posted by Cole Deschain

Lies.

None can hate Sephiroth more than I. It's not possible.

True. But, Cole, you know I hate every bit as much as you do

[Morgoth]

Uh, the bickering over Sephiroth needs to stop now before it degenerates into flames.

[Zeptron]

Uh, getting back to the list in general...

I don't think the Aliens should be on there because they're not actual villains. I've always seen villainy as a conscious choice, & the Aliens don't have the mental capacity to make moral choices because they're simple animals. Oh, they make awesome antagonists, but not out-and-out villains.

And why is Jabba The Hutt on the list? I think he's a hero for putting Leia in the Skimpy Gold Bikini!