A pod of Orcas versus...

[Cole Deschain]

Or try this one for size- a pod of Orcas versus pretty much anything they come across.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Or try this one for size- a pod of Orcas versus pretty much anything they come across.

True, One can take on a Great White. Smart enough to teach there own children,and even come up onto beaches to attack Seals

[Gorjirus]

Cole-

Is it the regular pods or super pods that reach upto 150+ Orcas?

[Cole Deschain]

I can't quite recall... I'm gearing up for a funeral today, so I'm debating this mostly out of my skull... Offhand, I'd say a super pod...

[Gorjirus]

Thank you. And you have my deepest sympathies. My father recently went home to Palmer for his mother's funeral.

[biochemitra]

Ya know, I personally have PROOF that orcas actually exist. Im just pointing out why I can still use the present tense.

[Saruman]

Originally Posted by biochemitra

They are too small, and meg's body design makes it very difficult to get a good bite on.

The body design is really no different than that of a Blue Whale which Orcas are easily capable of biting into.

even if they did manage to get a good grip, what about the meg's skin?
It is covered in thousands of razor sharp, toothlike scales call dermal denticles. These would make it extra hard to bite because at that size the denticles could do serious harm to an orca's mouth.

Not really, Orcas do eat things like walrus, tusks and all, and I would be more worried about a tusk than a scale.

A meg would be at least 3 or 4 times longer than an orca and roughly 12 to 16 times larger overal. One bite could snap an orca in two, and megs have very large mouths.

The advantage of hunting in groups is to distract prey and confuse them. Orcas communicate their intentions to each other very well, letting each other know what they are going to be doing. A tactic that a Meg has never encountered which puts the Meg at a greater disadvantage.

Plus one other thing, it took around 30 orcas to bring down a blue whale.

30 were attacking it, there is nothing that says that is a minimun number to kill one.

I know a meg can take on a fully grown humpback and win. A blue probably wouldnt be TOO much harder.

It shouldn't be considering the Blue is not all that much larger in reality.

Plus, megs CANNOT be snuck up on. One would know exactly where every orca in the pod was and be ready for all of them.

This is wrong. Humans in the water have been able to sneak up on sharks of every type to film them and even get into contact with them. Once in combat, a single Meg is not going to be able to know where exactly every Orca is, especially in an environment that allows attacks to come from any direction and angel.

Something you are also forgetting in the attack on the Blue Whale, is that Blue Whales have a very thick layer of fat surrounding its entire body. This helps protect it from attacks such as the one described. A Meg does not have that feature, any time it is bitten into it is going to be a serious wound, blood loss is a great equalizer for any size difference.

[biochemitra]

The body design is really no different than that of a Blue Whale which Orcas are easily capable of biting into.

Whales are massive fatty creatures, megs are smooth and streamlined.

Not really, Orcas do eat things like walrus, tusks and all, and I would be more worried about a tusk than a scale.

Point taken, but would you be more worried about a tusk than a mouthful of cheesegraters?

The advantage of hunting in groups is to distract prey and confuse them. Orcas communicate their intentions to each other very well, letting each other know what they are going to be doing. A tactic that a Meg has never encountered which puts the Meg at a greater disadvantage.

I think megs may have encountered something of this before. Maybe not, depends on the history of the particular meg.

30 were attacking it, there is nothing that says that is a minimun number to kill one.

Again, point taken.

This is wrong. Humans in the water have been able to sneak up on sharks of every type to film them and even get into contact with them. Once in combat, a single Meg is not going to be able to know where exactly every Orca is, especially in an environment that allows attacks to come from any direction and angel.

Not sure about that. Well maybe they CAN be snuck up on. Ill have to look into this as well.
The ampullai of lorenzini are very helpful in pinpointing prey and enemies. That with its smell and its vibratory sense (forget what it was called) Would allow it to pinpoint each orca.
A meg can pinpoint the exact location of a single drop of blood in a lake sized body of water.
3 orcas are not gonna be too hard.
Hehe, you said angel and we're talking about megs.

Something you are also forgetting in the attack on the Blue Whale, is that Blue Whales have a very thick layer of fat surrounding its entire body. This helps protect it from attacks such as the one described. A Meg does not have that feature, any time it is bitten into it is going to be a serious wound, blood loss is a great equalizer for any size difference.

i have taken this into consideration but I dont think the orcas have large enough mouths to do much great blood loss. You also have to realize that a meg is much faster and more agile than a whale. It was designed to hunt actively all the time. It was the orca of it's time.
Megs were simply too powerful, one bite could chomp an orca in two with minimal effort. The meg is agile enough to catch at least one, and after that the othere wont be much of a threat since there are only 2. It could just pick them off, or they would flee, making the megalodon the winner.

[Cole Deschain]

Originally Posted by biochemitra

Whales are massive fatty creatures, megs are smooth and streamlined.

1) Whales are streamlined. Pay attention.
2) Underwater, blubber is no hindrance. A Walrus can swim fairly gracefully.

Point taken, but would you be more worried about a tusk than a mouthful of cheesegraters?

If you had a mouth full of hooks, would you really care? Orcas can and do eat sharks, ese.

I think megs may have encountered something of this before. Maybe not, depends on the history of the particular meg.

There is no effective counter to pack tactics unless you are
a) incredibly hard-shelled... which sharks, for all of their plusses, are not.
b) also travelling in a group so you have companions to watch your back.

Not sure about that. Well maybe they CAN be snuck up on. Ill have to look into this as well.

[i]Anything can be snuck up on. Especially if the Orcas aren't thrashing around a lot. They swim quite smoothly.

The ampullai of lorenzini are very helpful in pinpointing prey and enemies.

And useless when the foes are coming in from multiple angles. How do you use the information, when all it well tell you is that your enemies are approaching from all sides?

A meg can pinpoint the exact location of a single drop of blood in a lake sized body of water.

That's smell. These Orcas aren't bleeding yet. And again with this "meg" business. Until a travelr runs afoul of one, I'm going to consider them extinct. The Coelocanth is hardly a common animal.

i have taken this into consideration but I dont think the orcas have large enough mouths to do much great blood loss. You also have to realize that a meg is much faster and more agile than a whale. It was designed to hunt actively all the time.

Wolves bleed moose to the point where they can't fight any more. Size isn't all-important. And if you think blue whales just sit there and passively let the orcas tear holes in them, you're insane. A blue whale possesses muscle reserves that beggar the imagination. It also has a lot more blood in it than a megalodon ever could. And Orcas bleed 'em out just fine.

It was the orca of it's time.

You're saying a top-end solo hunting predator is equivalent to top-end pack-hunters? *ahem* Sorry, carry on.

Megs were simply too powerful, one bite could chomp an orca in two with minimal effort. The meg is agile enough to catch at least one, and after that the othere wont be much of a threat since there are only 2. It could just pick them off, or they would flee, making the megalodon the winner.

Assuming they hadn't torn holes in it, after which they would hang back and wait for the blood loss to weaken it. I have the feeling you don't really understand how pack hunters work.

[biochemitra]

If you had a mouth full of hooks, would you really care? Orcas can and do eat sharks, ese.

Those sharks arent 60 feet long.

i]Anything can be snuck up on. Especially if the Orcas aren't thrashing around a lot. They swim quite smoothly.

Let me put it another way, the meg could find them by their heartbeat.

And useless when the foes are coming in from multiple angles. How do you use the information, when all it well tell you is that your enemies are approaching from all sides?

Nothing.
But when their comming from 3 out of a possible 9 or more angles then it becomes very helpful.

Wolves bleed moose to the point where they can't fight any more. Size isn't all-important. And if you think blue whales just sit there and passively let the orcas tear holes in them, you're insane. A blue whale possesses muscle reserves that beggar the imagination. It also has a lot more blood in it than a megalodon ever could. And Orcas bleed 'em out just fine.

When there are a lot of them. When theres only 3 then they perish like intelligent barracudas attacking jaws.

You're saying a top-end solo hunting predator is equivalent to top-end pack-hunters? *ahem* Sorry, carry on.

By which do I mean that they were the undisputed lords and masters of the sea, and had no natural predators other than each other? Then yes.

Assuming they hadn't torn holes in it, after which they would hang back and wait for the blood loss to weaken it. I have the feeling you don't really understand how pack hunters work.

One or more distract or weaken it in an area that will hurt, hamper, or cripple it, letting the others deal the killing blows?
And I stand by what I say, megs are too wide, and without many protrusions to grab a good hold of. An orca may pull off a small chunk but sharks get hurt worse during mating season.
Also, Orcas may eat sharks but what if they attacked one with dermal denticles the size of shortened steaknives? 2 Tusks are one thing, a mass of knives and cheesegraters is quite another.

[Cole Deschain]

Originally Posted by biochemitra

Those sharks arent 60 feet long.

And a megalodon isn't 100 feet long. See Blue Whale.

Let me put it another way, the meg could find them by their heartbeat.

And? Three heartbeats, three directions. The shark's only saving grace here is that it wouldn't dither about what to do next.

But when their comming from 3 out of a possible 9 or more angles then it becomes very helpful.

And when their smaller size means that they're more maneuverable, you ain't goin nowheres.

When there are a lot of them. When theres only 3 then they perish like intelligent barracudas attacking jaws.

Wrong size comparison.

By which do I mean that they were the undisputed lords and masters of the sea, and had no natural predators other than each other? Then yes.

Perhaps.

One or more distract or weaken it in an area that will hurt, hamper, or cripple it, letting the others deal the killing blows?

Uhm, not exactly. Try-

entire pod moves in, ripping holes and swimming away as fast as they can. Let the blood loss begin to take its effect. Don't allow the prey to rest, but keep taking little bites out of it. As the prey grows weaker and weaker, take bigger and bigger bites. Most of the time, when pack hunters attack something substantially larger than themselves, they begin eating it before it's really dead. They just let it get too weak to defend itself, and then they begin to feed.

And I stand by what I say, megs are too wide, and without many protrusions to grab a good hold of. An orca may pull off a small chunk but sharks get hurt worse during mating season.

I doubt it. For one thing, shark mating, violent as it is, isn't the same as being attacked by efficient killers who are out to EAT you, not just drive you off or hurt you.

Also, Orcas may eat sharks but what if they attacked one with dermal denticles the size of shortened steaknives? 2 Tusks are one thing, a mass of knives and cheesegraters is quite another.

Again with the cheesgraters. The skin is only part of what they'd be biting, you know. Orcas aren't pansies. They can take quite a bit, not just dish it out. And unlike sharks, they can and will look out for each other once the bloodshed starts.

[biochemitra]

entire pod moves in, ripping holes and swimming away as fast as they can. Let the blood loss begin to take its effect. Don't allow the prey to rest, but keep taking little bites out of it. As the prey grows weaker and weaker, take bigger and bigger bites. Most of the time, when pack hunters attack something substantially larger than themselves, they begin eating it before it's really dead. They just let it get too weak to defend itself, and then they begin to feed.

Well if you put it that way I guess I could imagine the orcas winning some of the time.

Edit: Does this one require more discussion or are we moving on to another face off?

[Gorjirus]

We keep discussing.

You have to understand that a Meg was not most likely the most graceful thing in the water. The Orcas are one of the fastest things out there in the sea, taking competition from a king swordfish. They can swim circles around the MEg.

And you say a Meg can take on a humpback, while ignoring Orcas killing a Blue Whale. What is wrong with that statement?

[Saruman]

I already posted this in the Meg thread, the links are in that thread as well.

Not really, if you look through the links I posted you will find info about it's speed. Meg wasn't a fast swimmer, but it was capable of quick bursts of speed since it was an ambush predator. Megs needed to conserve it's energy or it would have died off much earlier than it did because it wasn't capable of chasing down prey over an extended period of time. The energy expenditure would be to much for it and a single meal wouldn't be able to replenish that much of it's energy.

This actually makes it less likely it would be able to defeat a small group of Orcas as is being discussed in the other topic.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

Iam going to put it this way...

Take 11 guys, give one of them a gun and the rest sticks. Now the guy with the gun will get the first few coming at him with the gun but he won't beable to hold ALL of them off for long. They will eventually overwhelm him and beat him to death with there sticks.

Now make the guys with sticks with strategic experts and allow them to organize a plan, then see how long the guy with the superior arsenal lasts.