Should G2012 fight another monster?

[Mecha74]

So even though its possible for hollywood to honor the series, it is just as likely that they will do quite a bit to piss off a lot of Godzilla fans.

Well, it doesn't seem to me like there are ALLOT of Godzilla fans anymore. As spfx tech grows more and more advanced in modern film I see allot of hate and animosity directed not only at Godzilla films but any sci-fi film that seems low budget or outdated to the current generation.

The kaiju fandom as a whole has always been rather small compared to other sci-fi genre fandoms, and obviously not large enough to sway ticket sales as Godzilla 2000’s dismal box office returns proved. Previous statements have been made that they want to stay true to the spirit of what makes Godzilla work as a character and as a movie, but in the end the mainstream is still Hollywood's bread and butter. not niche fandoms like ours.

And they will cater to the mainstream in order to make money.

What that will result in on screen however, remains to be seen.

[X-SOLDIER]

I can go any way on this, but it all boils down to one thing in my mind: continuity of the film.

No Monster / New Monster
If Godzilla is showing up with a special message for America, and/or he's shown in his own continuity like in Gojira or GMK, then I want to see him carrying his message on his own, and for humanity to have to learn from it. Portraying Godzilla as a monster with a purpose, rather that just as an animal will be able to help it stand apart from the '98 Zilla film, because you're focusing on him as an entity, and following that message. This can easily be done without another Kaiju, while still being unique.

This can easily be spun up with a new monster, if the actions of America somehow directly release a dangerous Kaiju, it would provide a good explanation for Godzilla showing up as a hero, and living to fight another day (or another film, since people want sequels now), while still letting him be a monster with a purpose, and not just a senseless brawl. While this COULD be done with a previously established Kaiju, I think that there's a greater benefit from using a unique Kaiju for a unique continuity.

Returning Kaiju
The other possibility is that the film is willing to drop some elements in up front, like Monster Island, which means that we will almost certainly going to see other Toho Kaiju. This is risky, as it could be bogged down with cameos, but could be done well, depending on the design. Leaving them out has one big advantage. It lets the directors/designers see the reaction to Godzilla's design, and plan accordingly for the other well know Kaiju to get the best reaction from the movie-goers, and Godzilla fanbase. I could see this happening for a couple of reasons; One, it distances itself from the previous US film very obviously, and avoids comparisons (which could be good or bad). Two, most movies that involve previously established characters within a preset universe don't often see the need to painfuly toil over explaining them for the purpose of reaching its story, since it's assumed that it's relatively well established by previous films.


My guess:
I think that with all the reboots that have been coming out, and for the most part being fairly successful in bringing the bar up for the new films into current technology, we're not looking at seeing a Godzilla film in a pre-established continuity. We may hear about Monster Island, but unless the film wants to take us there in a Jurassic Park-type expedition, I don't see the focus going there for long (if at all), until a possible sequel (if that's how it's set up). So at this point, I'm guessing it'll be a new Kaiju or none at all. I'd personally like to see Godzilla wreaking havoc on humanity before seeing him go toe-to-toe with another monster, but I definately won't shun either option.


X

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by anguirus55

As discussed, the sequel to Transformers was a series of worthy moments embedded in a sort of molasses of failure.

Worthy moments? Like Megatron calling Fallen master? Or the racist robot twins? Or the completely unnecessary toilet "humor?" Plopping Optimus Prime onto the landing deck without a second thought like dropping trash into a garbage dump? Or the terrible acting? Or robot heaven? Or the Decepticons getting the shaft... AGAIN? I could go on and probably make this list of 100+ problems. The only thing worthy of anything was Starscream somehow staying in-character through the whole movie and Ravage NOT being completely misrepresented. You can go on and on about Optimus all you want, but he was pulled off better in the first movie where he was dead even with Megatron, and not someone that can take on THREE Decepticons including Megatron and hold his own. And once that power-up happened... what a waste of a final battle THAT was. This movie should have just been called "Yeah, Optimus Prime is the only Transformer worth a damn. Watch him massacre everybody by himself."

That's what happens when three decent screenwriters (see: Star Trek) are locked in a hotel room for four months to retro-write a script for a movie that's been in preproduction for a year and they have to please the fans, Hasbro, and Michael Bay.

Pleasing Michael Bay is easy. Here are three simple steps.
Step 1: Add explosions.
Step 2: Have a plot that is completely incomprehensible.
Step 3: Add more explosions, and it is good to go!

Credit where credit is due and so for blame, I've always believed. Michael Bay deserves nearly equal shares of credit and blame IMO with regards to his overall impact on the franchise. Whereas the Writer's Strike (rather, the profit-seeking decision to press on with the film anyway) was a deathblow.

I think the movie just sucks.

[Scorpion13mk2]

Writer strikes always piss me off. Its just giving shows an easy excuse to put on ****.

[Zearatul]

Treat it like these Superhero adaptations and have his origin story tie in with another Monster, preferably something like Mechagodzilla.

Though since space seems to be a no-show as far as villainy goes for film these days, going the mutation route with Ghidorah might also be interesting.

If they don't do another monster, lets hope they do the Oxegyn Destroyer some justice.

[anguirus55]

If Godzilla is showing up with a special message for America, and/or he's shown in his own continuity like in Gojira or GMK, then I want to see him carrying his message on his own, and for humanity to have to learn from it.

Was GMK's message hindered by the presence of the Guardian Beasts?

Orga: You've got a PM coming.

[DinoGeekProductions]

Originally Posted by Mecha74

As spfx tech grows more and more advanced in modern film I see allot of hate and animosity directed not only at Godzilla films but any sci-fi film that seems low budget or outdated to the current generation.

It's gotten to be bad. On IMDB, there's actually a review for Ewoks: the Battle for Endor entitled "A pre-200 CGI movie. Which means it sucks." Ignoring that there is no CG in that movie... Arrgh!

What people don't seem to realize is that even though CG is detailed and gritty, more often than not it's just as stylized as any of the Godzilla flicks.

I'm quite sad so few see worth in old school techniques anymore. Special effects were once an art form, and now it just feels manuefactured. But that's just me trying to pretend like I know something.

[The Gryphon]

It should be obvious whats going to happen.

So the new one is a) the product of Godzilla 3D which featured Hedorah because b) Yoshimitsu Banno was the mastermind, and he is still an executive producer and c) have you seen the gulf? Because d) the outrage over this is going to grow exponentially for the next 20 or so years, and by 2012 ignoring it will be like ignoring the color of the sky.

You're a fool if you think there is a chance for anything other than Hedorah to fight Godzilla. I can still see how it might not have a second monster, but then again, you don't just ignore whats happening when you're making a Godzilla movie.

Also, I want to mention I'm still seeing way too much use of the words "hollywood" and "mainstream." Let me clear up some confusion here: this is not a "hollywood" movie, it is a new Godzilla movie that Legendary Pictures is helping to produce. It isn't "mainstream" in the sense that no one involved has any sense of direction for the Godzilla series. As I previously mentioned, Yoshimitsu Banno (just a little thing Godzilla vs. Hedorah) is an executive producer and the only real name attached to the project, let alone previously connected to the series.

I surely understand all the cynicism, as it wouldn't take much to make me suspicious either, but I don't really think it's warranted here. This is going to be a normal Godzilla movie, and nothing has been said that contradicts that or gives any reason for doubting the filmmakers. It's going to be fine, just relax.

And if it IS the second Zilla? Well, Banno will leave, and Toho will drop the project long before that. Remember when they sued Subway? Yeah, Toho is done fudging around, they're playing for keeps now.

Keep your hat on, and if it flies off, I'll go get it for you. For like... 100 yen.

[Tokyo VigilanteX]

I surely understand all the cynicism, as it wouldn't take much to make me suspicious either, but I don't really think it's warranted here. This is going to be a normal Godzilla movie, and nothing has been said that contradicts that or gives any reason for doubting the filmmakers. It's going to be fine, just relax.

Remember all of those Japanese-to-American horror films? (The Grudge, The Ring, One Missed Call, etc.) They're all done by Roy Lee. A "specialist" in adapting Japanese properties for American audiences, and from the interviews I've seen with him, he has a very agressive and somewhat abrasive manner about him and I don't see an old japanese ex-tree hugger like Banno being able to have much influence against a slick Hollywood character like Roy Lee.

[The Gryphon]

Originally Posted by Tokyo VigilanteX

Remember all of those Japanese-to-American horror films? (The Grudge, The Ring, One Missed Call, etc.) They're all done by Roy Lee. A "specialist" in adapting Japanese properties for American audiences, and from the interviews I've seen with him, he has a very agressive and somewhat abrasive manner about him and I don't see an old japanese ex-tree hugger like Banno being able to have much influence against a slick Hollywood character like Roy Lee.

Lets say that happens. Lets say some guy nobody ever heard of screws Banno out of some managerial decision.

Now I've seen that some of the newer fans have either forgotten, ignored, or never knew what happened in 1998. This is alarming to me, but it allows me to bring up a good angle on this: Toho trusted what the slick hollywood shysters wanted to do, because they admitted they had no idea how to make a hollywood film, and felt the interpretation needed to be fleshed out from an American perspective, not a Japanese one. There was a moment when Toho first saw Tatopoulus's designs and they could have bailed out right then and there, but they went through with simply because they had no understand of how the hollywood system worked, why it worked, or why Godzilla was being "translated" in this way. They trusted the big-pocketed American sleazeballs, and it was the greatest mistake the company has ever made.

They now understand that hollywood producers do not "interpret," they "turn into an unrelated idea." Ever since they made the wrong call on Zilla, they have made up for it with an iron grip on the franchise that is so air-tight they had to be haggled with in order to give Anguirus a move in a fighting game that he would use in a movie 2 years later! They sued Subway for featuring a character that looks nothing like Godzilla just to prove a point.

On TV Tropes, this is called "Punching Out Worf." You take out the biggest guy in the room to show you mean business.

I can except that in the eyes of an American producer, Yoshimitsu Banno may not look like much, but to Toho he is an excellent Litmus test. When the man who made Godzilla fly thinks you've gone too far, it's time to close up shop.

I could of course go on about this forever. What I'm trying to say is that while many people refuse to learn from their mistakes, Toho has done everything in its power to show us that they are well aware of what will happen if they don't tell hollywood how high to jump.

And if all that isn't enough for you, just remember what they did to G-fan magazine.

I'm starting to think maybe I should start a thread devoted to calming everyone's fears about the hollywood involvement.

[BS Digital Q]

Originally Posted by The Gryphon

On TV Tropes, this is called "Punching Out Worf." You take out the biggest guy in the room to show you mean business.

No, it isn't. There's "Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?" and "The Worf Effect," but what you just described does not apply to either. Besides, I'd rather trust an official source on what happened than one fan' interpretation.

I could of course go on about this forever. What I'm trying to say is that while many people refuse to learn from their mistakes, Toho has done everything in its power to show us that they are well aware of what will happen if they don't tell hollywood how high to jump.

And if all that isn't enough for you, just remember what they did to G-fan magazine.

I'm starting to think maybe I should start a thread devoted to calming everyone's fears about the hollywood involvement.

Godzilla: Final ****ing Wars.

[Da_Jinx]

Originally Posted by The Gryphon

And if all that isn't enough for you, just remember what they did to G-fan magazine.

I'm starting to think maybe I should start a thread devoted to calming everyone's fears about the hollywood involvement.

What did Toho do to G-Fan magazine?

[Thunder Angel]

I don't think Legendary Pictures should do a Godzilla 'Verses' movie. If they're doing a reboot, they should go back to the best of the Godzilla films for inspiration - the Original. It doesn't have to be allegorical like the original, but it would be a lot better in my opinion to focus on the human toll like the original did rather than having a giant monster brawl-fest. They could do a lot better than Abram's Cloverfield if they take the film seriously. The rebooted Batman films proved the company's ability to do justice to a butchered franchise. They actually made Batman cool again by giving him a great deal of character depth. If they do the same with Godzilla, they'll have a real winner on their hands.

What I do not want to see is another 1998 attempt at making the monster an innocent nuisance, or another version of Toho's spiritual manifestation creatures. I would prefer the monster to be genuinely malicious and virtually indestructible like the original. I don't want another Jurassic Park on steroids - Godzilla should not be controlled and/or threatened by humans. And, I don't want Eastern psudo-mysticism to spoil it either.

[KaijuKing]

Originally posted by Thunder Angel:
What I do not want to see is another 1998 attempt at making the monster an innocent nuisance, or another version of Toho's spiritual manifestation creatures. I would prefer the monster to be genuinely malicious and virtually indestructible like the original.

I agree that Godzilla shouldn't be innocent or mystical, but malicious...I don't know. He should certainly be aggressive and destructive, but in a more animalistic kind of way, like Heisei Goji. He has no problem killing people or tearing up cities, but it's not personal. He shouldn't be outright evil. That should be saved for the villains.

[Godzillakamper]

I say let's get a new monster in this movie. I mean why not a new Godzilla with a new way of making Godzilla (CGI) why not throw in a new monster? Personaly I wouldn't mind seeing an old monster come back but I'd rather see something other than the norm (Ghidorah,Mechagodzilla,Mothra, etc.) This movie in my opinion should be the new begining for Godzilla so let's get a new monster.

[DinoGeekProductions]

Everyone keeps saying that the focus needs to be on Godzilla, but why can't a second monster be used to build up on Godzilla's character? Godzilla fights other creatures, that's what he does. And having Godzilla destroy another monster in seconds that the military couldn't could work. Plus it better demonstrates Godzilla as a fighter than if he just fought the military.

And, as I said in the other forum thread, everyone keeps saying people need to get used to Godzilla, yet, most everyone would just see Godzilla on a solo run as being boring. People don't need to get used to the idea of Godzilla, they need to get used to two monsters battling each other staged in a smart fashion. The people already know all about Godzilla, that he's big and destroys buildings. They got the same thing from Cloverfield and G98.

[Excelsior]

I'm sure this has been answered before, but...

Does Legendary have the rights to any other Toho kaiju in association with this picture?

[Kaiju_Sensai]

Well I believe when getting the rights to Godzilla they also get the rights to any of the other creatures excluding the Big 5. At least I think thats what happened with the Dark Horses Godzilla comics. Basically any monster that Toho can't make much money off of selling the rights to individually. As you know they'd have to shell out way to much money for Mothra, Rodan, or Ghidorah. Personally I'd like to see Anguirus.

[Zigra]

Originally Posted by Kaiju_Sensai

Well I believe when getting the rights to Godzilla they also get the rights to any of the other creatures excluding the Big 5. At least I think thats what happened with the Dark Horses Godzilla comics. Basically any monster that Toho can't make much money off of selling the rights to individually. As you know they'd have to shell out way to much money for Mothra, Rodan, or Ghidorah. Personally I'd like to see Anguirus.

Somebody who knows better can correct me if they like, but I believe Toho has relaxed on this. Remember that they gave Random House the rights to Ghidorah, Rodan, and Mothra.