1. Cykor (28-15) vs. Zigra (53-19)

[Raptor]

Cykor drew a bye in ROUND FOUR after tieing in his battle with Dogora (25-29) 5-5-1, defeated Godzilla (GMK) (22-13) in Round Two (a match that nearly
resulted in the first TIE of the competition) and G-Force MOGUERA (2-11) in Round One.
Zigra has eliminated Godzilla (Heisei) (38.5-17.5), fellow Daiei kaiju Guiron (25.5-14.5) and Space Gyaos (18-17) from the SSS competition as well as Kamacuras (2-19).

[The Great MM]

Cykor- Zigra's ray might not even effect Cyker because of his shelled back. And Cyker can fire more rapid, before Zigra can even fire, he could use a volley of fire balls.

[Aragorn_Strider22]

Wth MM that reasoning makes no sense at all. Just because Cykor has an armored back means nothing! Especially considering who Zigra faced off against and paralyzed easily!

The Korean kaijus' line ends here.

Zigra wins.

[Tomzilla]

Not going to vote yet, but after looking at 'Gamera vs. Zigra', you realize the first time Zigra engaged Gamera on land, Zigra just laid on the ground, flapping his flippers and acting as if he were still underwater?

Was almost an entire minute until Zigra finally jumped to his feet and used the paralysis ray on Gamera and that's only because the big turtle kept harassing him.

Point is, Zigra hesitated to combat Gamera immediately with the paralysis ray. I can tell you this, Cykor is brutal and if Zigra proceeds with the same type of strategy I just saw, then he's going to be mauled by Cykor's pincer claws. Either that or receive a nice fireball that is guaranteed to reduce him to a charred corpse or electrocute the living daylights out the space shark.

(Of course, I think in these fights both kaiju somehow appear on land and are squaring off, waiting for that bell to 'ding'. In other words, Zigra will already be standing up. But like I said, he hesitated to use the paralysis ray but Cykor was already on the attack against Yonggary. So with that weird sense of hesitation, I'm leaning towards Cykor for now.)

[Tomzilla]

Originally Posted by Aragorn_Strider22

Wth MM that reasoning makes no sense at all. Just because Cykor has an armored back means nothing! Especially considering who Zigra faced off against and paralyzed easily!

Keep in mind, during the underwater battle, Zigra attempted to paralyze Gamera again a few times but it had no effect. Want to know why? Because Gamera sucked his head in and was guarded by his shell. Even when Gamera kept his head in and activated his boosters, he flew towards Zigra and was still immune to the paralysis ray--because his shell defended him.

[PyrasTerran]

But I don't remember Cykor having an armored shell to withdraw to.

[Zigra]

Guys, Cykor never displayed the ability put his head back in his shell. In fact, he didn't even do it when it seemed like the logical thing to do. I'm betting that he can't put his head back in the way a turtle can.......assuming the shell would even work to begin with.

Tomzilla: You make an interesting point. However, Gamera also seemed to hesitate to attack for quite awhile when on the land and when he did, that's when Zigra struck. If Cyker tries to attack first (and since this takes place on land I'm assuming Zigra is already in his land-going mode), Zigra will most likely resort to his beam.

That, and Cyker's only real chance in this battle is his own beam and fireball attacks (his claws may hurt Zigra, but I doubt they'll do anything fatal; Cyker's claws couldn't even wound a monster that was hurt by machine gun fire). The problem with that is that Cyker seems to hesitate using these weapons even more than Zigra hesitates using his beam. He prefers to start out fighting physically for quite awhile, using the electric beam and fireball every so often. From what we've seen of them both, Zigra will have used his beam long before Cyker uses his projectile weapons.

[Zigra]

That, and Cykor's tentacles will be a non-factor, since I don't think Zigra will do anything to cut off his arm.

[Tomzilla]

Zigra-

Guys, Cykor never displayed the ability put his head back in his shell. In fact, he didn't even do it when it seemed like the logical thing to do. I'm betting that he can't put his head back in the way a turtle can.......assuming the shell would even work to begin with.

I wasn't making that assumption just to let you know. In fact, I was only pointing out a "flaw" in Aragorn's reasoning. That and I think Monster Master was only trying to say that Cykor's body just happens to be covered with a hard carapace, a lot like Gamera's shell. I'd need a better look at Cykor, but I don't really think that....

Tomzilla: You make an interesting point. However, Gamera also seemed to hesitate to attack for quite awhile when on the land and when he did, that's when Zigra struck. If Cyker tries to attack first (and since this takes place on land I'm assuming Zigra is already in his land-going mode), Zigra will most likely resort to his beam.

Not exactly true. Once Zigra and Gamera were on land, Gamera wasn't that hesitant. He was instead attempting to stomp Zigra a new one, just Zigra kept flapping away. Gamera if by hesitating you mean using his flame breath--then yeah. But it only helps my argument: Cykor doesn't hesitate. When Zigra does, it'll be a bad move. After all, Zigra stood up in the first place only to brush Gamera away and then used his paralysis ray. If these monsters are already standing upright and we know which one is the party that hesitates (Zigra) and we know which one doesn't (Cykor), you can make a fine assumption that Cykor will deliver a fatal blow. Truth is, Cykor is an armoured tank that moves fast and strikes hard. Hesitating isn't the smart thing to do against him. If Zigra just stands there, he might just get a fireball thrown at him and be engulfed in a fiery demise.

That, and Cyker's only real chance in this battle is his own beam and fireball attacks (his claws may hurt Zigra, but I doubt they'll do anything fatal; Cyker's claws couldn't even wound a monster that was hurt by machine gun fire). The problem with that is that Cyker seems to hesitate using these weapons even more than Zigra hesitates using his beam. He prefers to start out fighting physically for quite awhile, using the electric beam and fireball every so often. From what we've seen of them both, Zigra will have used his beam long before Cyker uses his projectile weapons.

If I recall, Cykor never really got a good "shot" at Yonggary with his claws. They always missed his agile target and struck the ground (impaling it and leaving a nice hole). You do bring up a good point on Cykor's hesitation to use his beam weaponry, however, remember: Cykor is faster than Zigra. Zigra hesitating would only bring him a one way ticket to the ground, by being knocked down and likely mauled by Cykor. Then what happens? What if Cykor rams his pincer claws into the little ruby above his beak, where the paralysis ray generates? It did after all malfunction in battle against Gamera. So anything is possible. Then after ramming his foe down, what will happen? Think Zigra will have enough strength to get up in time and then paralyze Cykor quick enough before a fireball sears into his body or is electrocuted by Cykor's electric beams? Depends on your outlook on these fights, I guess...

[Zigra]

First of all, Cykor's speed is highly overrated. I've seen both Gamera and Godzilla (pick any version of them) walk about as fast as Cykor runs. The same goes for his physical attacks.

As for Zigra "flapping away on the land" for too long, the more I look at it, it seemed as if Zigra was having trouble adjusting to the enviroment (he probably wasn't quite yet use to life on land in such light gravity). But, you can't ignore that once he did learn to adjust to the enviroment he showed no hesitation whatsoever in using his beam. Since this battle is presumably pre-set on land, it's a safe bet that Zigra is already in his land-based form.

Even if Cykor can get Zigra down before he uses his beam, why can't Zigra hit him with the beam while Cykor has him down? I doubt Cykor will know to, or even pay attention to that seemingly insignifigant orb on Zigra's snout.

Remember folks, while Cykor will probably have to work to take Zigra down (unless he resorts to his projectiles first, which as stated above probably won't happen), Zigra need only hit Cykor with his beam once

[Tomzilla]

Zigra-

First of all, Cykor's speed is highly overrated. I've seen both Gamera and Godzilla (pick any version of them) walk about as fast as Cykor runs. The same goes for his physical attacks.

Excuse me, but I suggest you re-phrase that as: "First of all, I think Cykor's speed is highly overrated." - since at the moment, you are the only one who thinks that thus far, so please address it as an opinion and not speak as if everyone feels the same way--because I sure don't. And for crying out loud, Cykor sprinted down a street pretty damn fast. I don't think Gamera or Godzilla (pick any version) can "walk" that fast.

You think Cykor's physical attacks are overrated? Just with one head-butt, Cykor made Yonggary go flying through the air. Just a prelude to the power behind his physical strength.

As for Zigra "flapping away on the land" for too long, the more I look at it, it seemed as if Zigra was having trouble adjusting to the enviroment (he probably wasn't quite yet use to life on land in such light gravity). But, you can't ignore that once he did learn to adjust to the enviroment he showed no hesitation whatsoever in using his beam. Since this battle is presumably pre-set on land, it's a safe bet that Zigra is already in his land-based form.

I don't doubt Zigra was having trouble adapting to the new environment. But you know what else? When Gamera and Zigra were on land the second time, Zigra was once again flapping and having a hell of a time adapting. Again. So really, if Cykor knocks the space shark on the ground, Zigra will be struggling to get the heck up. We know that is a fact, since we've seen Zigra have a tough time on land (and when he was on the ground, he didn't try use the Paralysis ray). Besides, even if Zigra is standing up, will there be enough time to prepare for Cykor's coming? I'm assuming Cykor will just charge into battle for a physical assault. (I'm sure we both agree on that.) But in my opinion, I think he's fast enough to be able to get there (well, truthfully: Cykor leaps more than he runs--and he leaps pretty damn fast and far) in time and then either proceed with a physical assault or just use his fireball. What Cykor did is charge in close and then fired his fireball at Yonggary. Even when Zigra did manage to get up, he did hesitate to use his beam. You know why? Because you're making it sound as if Zigra stood right up and let a rip. He didn't do that. He stood up and pushed Gamera back and then they stood there, looking at the other for like 11 seconds and then Zigra attacked. This won't be smart against Cykor, who will waste no time and move right in.

Even if Cykor can get Zigra down before he uses his beam, why can't Zigra hit him with the beam while Cykor has him down? I doubt Cykor will know to, or even pay attention to that seemingly insignifigant orb on Zigra's snout.

Well, once Zigra is down, he'll be struggling to try and adapt to the land again. And if Cykor knocks Zigra down, I guarantee it'll be packing a punch (reminder: Cykor sent Yonggary flying). I doubt Zigra can act like a bat and use his flippers to be like a pair of wings, stop in the air and fire his paralysis ray right at Cykor. I don't think Cykor knows of the orb on Zigra's snout, but judging from where he was aiming against Yonggary--i.e. the face--well, chances of the orb getting hit are good. And even if he doesn't hit the orb, Zigra is going to feel a lot of pain. Because Zigra sure didn't show the agility that Yonggary had to avoid such a physical blow.

Point is: Zigra when he was finally up hesitated to use his beam for about 11 seconds--on a foe just standing there doing nothing. Cykor will already be on the attack in less than that time. What will Zigra's reaction be to a foe who isn't hesitating? Will he panic? Use the ray sooner? Possible. Just if we're going down the road of where we decide our verdict by what the kaiju did exactly in the movies, well then--Cykor is coming in and Zigra is standing there for about 11 seconds, then plans to use the paralysis ray but sadly--he just got pulverized by a fireball.

Note: You'd notice in "Reptilian" of when Cykor first arrives by bursting from the ground, he slowly walks towards Yonggary and they just stare at the other. I'm aware of this. But you see them literally right next to the other, then the scenes switch around and then suddenly Cykor appears where he was right when he burst from the ground. So I assumed it was a "special effect" spoof or something and started counting from there.

Remember folks, while Cykor will probably have to work to take Zigra down (unless he resorts to his projectiles first, which as stated above probably won't happen), Zigra need only hit Cykor with his beam once

I agree that one hit will end it. Though if Cykor were already charging and in the air when the paralysis ray is used, even if Zigra wins, thanks to gravity and momentum--Cykor still hits Zigra and sends him packing.

(Though if I wanted to get technical, could point out that Cykor's alien body is different than Gamera's own biology and it is possible that Cykor's cells would have a different reaction to Zigra's paralysis ray and he might not even be influenced the first few times. But I won't get into that, since it is a nitpicking argument and well...it would be stupid. )

[Zigra]

TZ, I thought you were better than this

Excuse me, but I suggest you re-phrase that as: "First of all, I think Cykor's speed is highly overrated." - since at the moment, you are the only one who thinks that thus far, so please address it as an opinion and not speak as if everyone feels the same way--because I sure don't. And for crying out loud, Cykor sprinted down a street pretty damn fast. I don't think Gamera or Godzilla (pick any version) can "walk" that fast.

Perhaps I was overblowing it a bit. Still, his speed was nowhere near as imposing as you guys make it sound. A lot of people talk about him like he's GINO for crying out loud. Not even close.

You think Cykor's physical attacks are overrated? Just with one head-butt, Cykor made Yonggary go flying through the air. Just a prelude to the power behind his physical strength.

Actually, what I mean't in that sentence was that Cykor's attacks seemed somewhat sluggish a lot of the time. I don't know why Yongary had such trouble countering those attacks.

Well, once Zigra is down, he'll be struggling to try and adapt to the land again.

I imagine he'd only have a problem if he got knocked on his stomach and Cykor attacked him from behind. If Zigra was down on his back and Cykor tried to get on top to lay the smack down, Cykor would be well in range of the ray.

As far as Cykor laying the smack down on Zigra, I suggest you watch "Gamera vs. Zigra" again. Notice how Zigra was always recieving some rather severe beatings from Gamera? Now, did you notice how Zigra didn't seem to be effected by those beatings at all? Yes, Zigra recieved some very nasty blows easily comparable to what Cykor can dish out, ranging from being kicked around, stomped on repeatedly, and dropped to the ground from God-knows how high, and he didn't seem to take any damage from any of that. He even seemed more than well enough to continue being his proud and boastful self (perhaps Gamera's inability to do any physical harm to Zigra is why Zigra didn't take him seriously enough to use the beam immediatly). The only thing that harmed Zigra was bright light and Gamera's fire.

My point, for those of you just joining us, is that, judging from the sort of physical punishment Zigra seems to be able to withstand, there's a good chance he can take the punishment Cykor can dish out.

Here's another thought. You may have pointed out something that further supports Zigra. When Zigra stood up, he pushed Gamera away. Now, Gamera's no wimp, so Zigra must have had some considerable strength to be able to do that. Who's to say that if Cykor charges him and tries to ram him, that Zigra wouldn't be the one who butts Cykor away instead? I know I might be reaching on this one, but it's something to ponder that I myself have never paid attention to before.

Cykor's best bet is his projectile weapons. But, we've pretty much agreed that Zigra will have fired his beam long before Cykor fires his projectiles.

(Though if I wanted to get technical, could point out that Cykor's alien body is different than Gamera's own biology and it is possible that Cykor's cells would have a different reaction to Zigra's paralysis ray and he might not even be influenced the first few times. But I won't get into that, since it is a nitpicking argument and well...it would be stupid. )

Em, isn't Zigra himself an alien lifeform? So why wouldn't it work on other alien lifeforms.....especially if they are organic?

[Cole Deschain]

Showa Gamera's techincally an alien, too. Zigra's beam will work.

[Husnock]

TZ had a good arguement going, but Zigra raises a good point with his namesake's seeming resilience. And it would seem that Zigra (the Kaiju) would be the one to fire first.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Grr...

I wish I could watch Reptillian.

*sobs*

The problem is I haven't seen enough of these kaiju to really participate.

[Tomzilla]

Zigra-

TZ, I thought you were better than this

Sorry to disappoint, I guess I'm not used to debating on another's behalf whose name isn't: Space Godzilla.

Perhaps I was overblowing it a bit. Still, his speed was nowhere near as imposing as you guys make it sound. A lot of people talk about him like he's GINO for crying out loud. Not even close.

Took less than a second or two for Cykor to get down that street. Compare his size with GINO and the length of that street, and I'm sure you'll be able to come to understand why people talk as if he is GINO.

Actually, what I mean't in that sentence was that Cykor's attacks seemed somewhat sluggish a lot of the time. I don't know why Yongary had such trouble countering those attacks.

I guess Yonggary was exhausted from being knocked back by that huge explosion. Yonggary appeared to be the one who was sluggish, while Cykor was just taking every shot he could.

I imagine he'd only have a problem if he got knocked on his stomach and Cykor attacked him from behind. If Zigra was down on his back and Cykor tried to get on top to lay the smack down, Cykor would be well in range of the ray.

Being knocked on his stomach or back would make no real difference in terms of Zigra struggling to get back to his feet. But yeah, I'll give you that: if Zigra is on his back and Cykor moves in close enough, then being paralyzed is a possibility. Just there are a few things that might happen instead: Cykor's physical blow sends Zigra flying and then from a distance, out of Zigra's ray range, Cykor decides to implement his projectiles. The fireball would obviously expel doom for Zigra. But can he withstand the electric rays?

As far as Cykor laying the smack down on Zigra, I suggest you watch "Gamera vs. Zigra" again. Notice how Zigra was always recieving some rather severe beatings from Gamera? Now, did you notice how Zigra didn't seem to be effected by those beatings at all? Yes, Zigra recieved some very nasty blows easily comparable to what Cykor can dish out, ranging from being kicked around, stomped on repeatedly, and dropped to the ground from God-knows how high, and he didn't seem to take any damage from any of that. He even seemed more than well enough to continue being his proud and boastful self (perhaps Gamera's inability to do any physical harm to Zigra is why Zigra didn't take him seriously enough to use the beam immediatly). The only thing that harmed Zigra was bright light and Gamera's fire.

Let's examine these severe beatings: Gamera attempting to step on Zigra, Gamera flipping Zigra over, Gamera playing a musical by hitting the spikes on Zigra's back and well...I think I'm missing a few, right? Thus far, these aren't really considered severe beatings in my book. I can see why he wasn't effected by those beatings, since even a kaiju like Minya was able to take such things. The only real beating that I consider "tough" is when Zigra fell from the sky and landed head first. Yes, Zigra can take a beating, but what happened after taking that beating? Zigra was once again stranded on land, struggling to adapt and Gamera played a musical on him then roasted him to a charred corpse. So let's see: there's a 50/50 chance Zigra will land on either his back or belly. Either way, if Cykor chooses to attack from afar after wards, survival is very slim.

Wait, what the...? Zigra received some very nasty blows easily comparable to what Cykor can dish out? Alright, point out to me when Zigra was impaled by Gamera. You realize if Yonggary didn't move, then Cykor's pincer claws would've thrusted through his skill and crush it with ease. There's a huge difference between being stomped on by one's foot and being impaled by a sharp object.

My point, for those of you just joining us, is that, judging from the sort of physical punishment Zigra seems to be able to withstand, there's a good chance he can take the punishment Cykor can dish out.

Your point excludes the possibility of Zigra being impaled in the process and from the movie, being impaled is something Zigra had never had the honor of feeling nor withstanding. And even if he can take the punishment, the power behind Cykor's strength is enough to send Zigra, like I've been saying, flying. Then Zigra will be at the mercy of a fireball or an electric beam. Something I'm sure Zigra cannot take.

Here's another thought. You may have pointed out something that further supports Zigra. When Zigra stood up, he pushed Gamera away. Now, Gamera's no wimp, so Zigra must have had some considerable strength to be able to do that. Who's to say that if Cykor charges him and tries to ram him, that Zigra wouldn't be the one who butts Cykor away instead? I know I might be reaching on this one, but it's something to ponder that I myself have never paid attention to before.

Well actually, push was an expression for: I took my flipper and struck Gamera in the face. When you're kaiju sized, you don't need a lot of strength to hit someone in the face and have them "stumble" back a few steps. They are going to feel it. Just you're comparing Cykor in ramming speed with Gamera just standing there. Which would be easier to bat away? A non-moving object or one whose mass greatly outclasses your own and is heading straight towards you? I don't think even Godzilla would have the strength to deter Cykor in such a fashion you're claiming Zigra would succeed at.

Cykor's best bet is his projectile weapons. But, we've pretty much agreed that Zigra will have fired his beam long before Cykor fires his projectiles.

Curse Cykor for being a fool: his strategy is the opposite of Heisei Gamera's (who strangely possess the same amount of destructive power) and that's moving in for a physical combat, then use the projectiles. When Gamera uses his projectiles first then goes in for a physical encounter. If only Cykor were smarter...but that's one of the annoying factors about debating or a kaiju's behalf: we're currently defending monsters who've only had the pleasure of appearing once. Every kaiju should get their own series, easier for us to debate upon their battle strategies.

Em, isn't Zigra himself an alien lifeform? So why wouldn't it work on other alien lifeforms.....especially if they are organic?

Well, the thing I meant was we only saw an alien life form's weapon work on an earth-based creature. But of course, I meant it would be a nitpicking comment since there would be no way to prove it. Plus, I personally thought it would be unfair to Zigra's ability: since he is an extraterrestrial as well and somewhere along the lines, his race has meet with other alien life forms and yeah...one of the reasons of why I thought it would be stupid. But then why did I bring it up in the first place? Dunno, to make my post bigger?

[PyrasTerran]

Hm.. I'm not sure, but I don't thinK Cykor resorts to nova balls and electricity off the bat, and couldn't that hinder him, as Zigra can attack him with his ray, and Cykor doesn't have a shell like Gamera(more like flexible armor) to withdraw into..

[Orga777]

I wish I can enter, but I havn't seen the Yongary movie and havn't seen a Gamera movie in years. *Grabs popcorn* So I'll sit back and see this debate.

[Daikaijuking]

Cykor is weak, from what I've heard about Zigra, gives him the edge.

[Aragorn_Strider22]

Originally Posted by Daikaijuking

Cykor is weak, from what I've heard about Zigra, gives him the edge.

Cykor isn't weak. He's quite the opposite. If you think he is weak, I suggest you go watch his movie.

[Tomzilla]

Originally Posted by Daikaijuking

Cykor is weak

That's a great assumption! Now, can you be polite and answer why exactly you feel he is...weak?

[PyrasTerran]

I may hate his movie, but Cykor is no weakling..

[HolyGoji777]

zigra is one bad customer. he takes this one. cykor has a chance albeit a small one...but i dont think it will be enough against the shark.

[Zigra]

On the contrary, it didn't take that much to bring Cykor down. Just two of Yongary's fireballs, as I recall. Not that impressive. I could make a very long list of kaiju that have withstood worse than that. The only reason why Cykor was able to do as much damage to Yongary as he did was because Yon was practically letting Cykor beat the snot out of him, and doing very little to fight back or dodge the attacks.

[Tomzilla]

Originally Posted by Zigra

On the contrary, it didn't take that much to bring Cykor down. Just two of Yongary's fireballs, as I recall. Not that impressive. I could make a very long list of kaiju that have withstood worse than that. The only reason why Cykor was able to do as much damage to Yongary as he did was because Yon was practically letting Cykor beat the snot out of him, and doing very little to fight back or dodge the attacks.

Keep in mind, Cykor was defeated only because of human distraction. Without human intervention, Cykor would've undoubtfully thrashed Yonggary into a state of where nobody would ever recognize him again. After all, Cykor was outright beating the snot out of Yonggary the whole time.

You should also check the "Kaiju Beam Power" thread. Black had made a cool calculation on the power of Yonggary's 'fire darts'. Potent they are indeed. Plus, one of the reasons of why Cykor is a powerhouse is--no, not because of his uber-powerful fireball or his electrical beams, or his unbelievable physical strength--but because of the ability to have tentacles whip out of whatever limb is disabled from the rest of the body. From then on, the tentacles would constrict the opponent and electrocute the hell out of them. In order to kill Cykor, you need to have an explosive projectile fired carefully into the central area of his body and have it go boom. I'm sure he can be killed by other means, but from what we know....

Ever thought the reason Yonggary was "letting" Cykor beating the snot out of him in the first place was because Cykor's physical blows were actually damaging the dinosaur's brain? Thing to consider, but I think Yonggary was just floored by that huge explosion in the city and was trying to get a second wind.