Jet Jaguar vs. King Caesar (Showa)

[The Great MM]

Jet Jaguar vs. King Caesar (Showa)

Arena: Mt. Fuji

Rules: None

WHO WILL WIN...

[godofPH]

Jet Jaguar wins this, Seesar's only real power that helps him at all is block beams, and Jet doesn't use beams.

[Showa Godzilla]

I did this before.Most people were Voting for Seesar,but after awhile,More people Voted for JJ.here is the other thread http://www.kaijuphile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3330.

[Jet Jaguar]

is the winner
His ability to change sizes,his Kung Fu moves,and Metallic Sense of style make him the winner against this powerful foe

Okay, who ELSE would you have expected me to pick??

[kent]

I too pick JJ. As much as I like King Seesar, he is not much of a brawler. He also doesn't have any special attributes that will help him in this fight. All he seemed to do was ram into MG but there were a few times he got in a flip or a smack. JJ is just too fast and is much more of a brawler than King Seesar is.

[PyrasTerran]

I voted Seesar before, and I vote for him again.

As strong as JJ is, King Ceasar's endurance is 100 times better. Even though JJ will be getting more hits in, each hit that KC gets in will take a severe toll on Jet Jaguar, a robot with very poor defenses and structural and technical endurance

[kent]

^ JJ's endurance is almost constant considering he's a robot. Even when he battled Gigan and Megalon alone, sure he was getting rocked but what did you expect with him being outnumbered? He also, surprisingly, was not severely damaged. Alone, JJ was able to successfully take on Gigan without help and Megalon without any help as well. And both of those kaiju like to flail around quite a bit. Compared to Seesar, I believe JJ has the more severe hits and superior strength. When JJ first blew up to enourmous size, he walked over to Megalon and with one hit, knocked Megalon to the ground. Not to mention he broke Gigan's arm and lifted him up and threw him up in the air! That's very impressive! What happened to Seesar once Godzilla showed up? He practically hid like a coward and did not even get physically involved in the fight until Godzilla's magnetism got a hold of MG; only then did Seesar realize that MG couldn't do anything to him and just threw himself at MG. Even after battling MG for a few minutes solo, Seesar was also done for and most of the punishment he took from MG was HTH. His fighting style is basically to just ram his opponents. He did do an impressive flip on MG but other than that, his style isn't really impressive. If he does that, JJ will just grapple with him and it spells doom for Seesar. Or JJ could just move out of the way and Seesar will crash into the ground.

[MirrenDono]

I'll get my mondo post I posted before in the last thread, and you'll wanna re-think voting Seesar

EDIT-

This is the most of the post-

I watched him battle, and I gotta say, I can't see how many of you aren't impressed with Jet. I examined his battles, fighting manuvers and all, and I gotta say this guy's amazing. First lemme start off with his power. This robot has got to have some of the most amazing power in his blows I've ever seen. Jet Jaguar weighs 27,500 tons, Megalon is 44,000, as much as Mechagodzilla. This means that Jet weighed 16,000 pounds less than the big stupid bug. Look at his first hit. He barely even winds up, and throws a normal hit at Megalon and floors him. He floors something with a weight that he is only about 60% of off an average smack, and heck, he does it twice! That's awesome dude. Going on now, Jaguar does not just slap his adversaries around, he does more sometimes. Look at the first fight with Megalon, the guy throws Megalon into the cliffs, and at another point as they're grappling throws him to the ground. Watch him in that first fight, he's relentless. Once he'd get Megalon down, he would pound him even more or at least keep knocking him around. Then after Goji comes in a bit, he gets back to fighting Megalon, and even after getting pounded himself, he batters Megalon. Watch him,, he continually smacks Megalon and kicks him into the dirt. Then watch that second kick for another example of his power and force on his blows. He kicks Megalon in the butt, and Megalon goes flying. We only start to hear real flying sounds once the camera goes to Gigan flying at Goji. This shows that Jet managed to kick the 44,000 pound Megalon and send him flying, even while being 16500 pounds less than him. That is pure force my friends. Just imagine now when he does such to Seesar, who is only 33,000 pounds. He is only 3/4 of Megalon's weight, and Jet thrashed Megalon. Just imagine what those incredible power-house hits are gonna do to the big dog. Seesar will be sent sprawling/flying.

Now lets go into his dexterity. Jet Jaguar showed this a couple times. Jet was able to out-manuverr Megalon many times, when he dodged his rama nd threw him into the rocks, and when he dodged a few shots from him. Towards the end of the first battle, there's a point where Megalon throws some swipes at Jet, and he simply ducks under both of them and nails Megalon again. This shows that he can dodge just like Seesar, maybe not as well, but good enough, and he still has more to battle Seesar with

His fortitude. Jet has a ton here, and this is no exaggeration, this guy can really take the pain and keep fighting/standing. Look at the hits he takes and he gets by them. That first flying ram by Megalon knocked him flat and created an explosion of sparks. And even while on the ground he managed to grapple with Megalon equally, even after that savage hit. Then once Gigan comes, and when he tries to fly away, Megalon blasts him with both a lightning bolt and napalm. After the explosion, we see barely any marks on him minus a few eakly charred parts and a lil dust, but no serious damage at all. Then after those massive kicks to his gut which cause spark explosions, again, no real damaged areas. But my real main point, at the beginning of the beating with Megalon and Gigan, he manages to take four blows before finally egtting hit for the fifth time and goes down. He takes a hit from Megalon, and reels over to Gigan, takes one there, reels back at Megalon, takes another, staggers at Gigan, takes yet another and staggers back to Megalon before finally getting hit a fifth time and going down. He took four hits and merely staggered, it took five to knock him down. He can take a lot of punishment.

Now going back to a bit of his force and now his brute strength. Jet Jaguar obviously have amazing power and force to his blows, and for more evidence look at what he does to Gigan. When he flies by him, he knocks him outta the sky, with amazing ease. He simply flies into him, and the cyborg goes down. Jet doesn't even move during this, he hits Gigan and stays nearly completely still. He and Gigan weigh the exact same, and upon contact Jet isn't even stirred. It won't be too different if he nails Seesar with a flying ram. Then take a check at when he breaks Gigan's arm. Good Lord that was nasty. He simply takes him fly, and bends it over his knee quickly and breaks it. Again, not a whole ton of force on it if you watch it, and he breaks it with ease. Plus Gigan might've have more metal there being a cyborg, and even if not something like done to Seesar will result in a sickening action. And finally, his strength. Jet has some good stuff here, very good stuff. Even if Goji is 5500 less pounds than him, he carried him while flying with ease, witha lot of ease it seems. Then when he lifted up Gigan, sure it took him a secodn to get him up, but once he did it was brutal. He didn't even bend down to throw him, he simply squated the tiniest bit and hurled him into the air extremlely high. If he did that to Seesar, the big doggy's still gonna go high and land rather painfully, and if Jet actually bends down to get more force on the throw, it won't be pretty for Seesar.

[Gorjirus]

But wasn't Jet Jaguar dizzy? How often do you see a robot get dizzy....

And yes, Jet did knock down Megalon and such, but did it do that much damage? You can kncok someone over and punch them and kick them, but if it doesn't do any lasting damage, does it make you that great of a fighter?

[MirrenDono]

We hear Megalon screeching in pain, and he's down for a few seconds each time.

Plus, as I was trying to explain in there, it was a more of an example of his amazing strength. Seesar is only about 3/4 the weight of Megalon, so if Jet pulls off moves like that again, Seesar will gain a temporary flight ability if ya know what I mean

[Gorjirus]

Yes, but it doesn't do that much staying, lasting damage. Godzilla might roar, and fall down, but is he defeated? No. It took godzilla doing flying kick to even "finish off" Megalon. So, we can see that JJ attacks might knock you down and cry out in pain, it won't win a fight. King Seesar, though lighter, seems more resilent. I don't know if he could take out Jet Jaguar, but I doubt that JJ could do any lasting damage to win the fight.

[MirrenDono]

Gorjirus, that's completely, useless in a way. You're saying that physical fighting isn't enough to defeat a Kaiju? Seesar may be a golem in a sense, but come on, I've proven that Jet has both the strength and the skill to match him fine

And fortitude for that matter!

[Gorjirus]

Oh nonononono. Yes, physical fighting can defeat a kaiju. I know that for a fact. That isn't what I said. Jet Jaguar attack's don't KO that well. That is what I was trying to get across.

[kent]

^ But JJ's attacks will do more to damage Seesar than Seesar's will to JJ.

[Solar_Behemoth]

Strength in JJ.....

Before anyone brings up the old "Jet Jaguar broke Gigan's arm!" evidence, we have to remember that Seesar is not organic. Like the article from TK stated, he is a golem, a non-living weapon made from bricks, rocks, etc. created by people of ancient times to protect them. It's gonna be alot more difficult for JJ to break any of Seesar's limbs. ALOT more.

[kent]

^ But Henry, Gigan is a cyborg. Part of his body is inorganic. I am willing to bet part of his skeletal structure is metal-based.

[PyrasTerran]

Kent, Gigan is also a very, VERY poorly constructed cyborg. Final Wars Gigan is more plausible in design and capability, and remember that Gigan was built by a race that had no planet. They couldn't augment Gigan's abilities anymore than they were(this is why I think the MG1 looks like a draconic version of the tin-man of Wizard of Oz).

[kent]

Poorly constructed kaiju? From what I am seeing in his two films, it looked very fine. Please explain further because I am lost as to what you said.

[PyrasTerran]

I said cyborg, not kaiju.

First there's his hooks, not bladed, not even pointed, are only good for hammering at opponents.

There's an extremely poor flying ability that only serves 2 purposes: a fly by, and fleeing.

There's the fact that removing control of it incredibly reduces its fighting power.

Poorly made hooks = poor grappling.

The AI isn't even intelligent enough to hook onto the opponent and bear-hug them while keeping the saw on, an attack that could have stopped Godzilla dead in his tracks.

Gigan, in the long run, is sadly still more of a lackey, a muscle, an unexperienced bouncer..

As for the arm breaking, which is how this all started, Gigan was beaten senseless thanks to the radiaction blast. Ceasar isn't going to let JJ grab his arm so easily, and may even just flip him over with his own might.

[MirrenDono]

Pyras, half of that shows that Gigan isn't poorly made, but poorly implemented. He's made quite well. His flying is fast, his buzz-saw is very nasty, and he has some very nice physical combat skills. The hooks are obviously sharp still, and he does have a good deal of intelligence.

The flying thing and buzzsaw used very often is not in the problem that he's poorly made, it may be, due to a low AI, but if not, that doesn't mean he's physically poorly made

What kent was trying to say was that it seemed you implied that he was badly made on a phyical level, as in he was weakly made. You haven't shown any evidence there, and there is none. For all we know, Gigan's bone structure or such could be so hard that Full Metal Missiles couldn't penetrate them. But for now, nevertheless, it's surely impressive that Jet did manage to break his arm like that.

[ghidorahsaurus]

Well, I think Jet Jaguar's martial arts would allow him to overcome King Caesar. Why? King Caesar's favorite moves seemed to consist of running and ramming into his opponent. Each and every time KC tries this, Jet Jaguar can side step and punch, kick, or trip. Even if the fact KC is a golem means he can take more punishment than Jet Jaguar, I think Jet Jaguar can inflict enough damage to defeact King Caesar before the opposite it true.

[kent]

First there's his hooks, not bladed, not even pointed, are only good for hammering at opponents.

And they hammered Godzilla and JJ pretty well there too. Not to mention in his debut film they cut Godzilla's forehead wide open.

There's an extremely poor flying ability that only serves 2 purposes: a fly by, and fleeing.

Flying in most kaiju and animals in general only DO serve those purposes. Might as well say that every kaiju that does fly has a poor flying ability. Last I knew, in both of his encounters with Godzilla, he used the flyby very effectively. Knocking Godzilla down all but one of those times.

There's the fact that removing control of it incredibly reduces its fighting power.

When the Godzilla Tower was destroyed, both KG and Gigan seemed dazed and confused for a little bit. Once either snapping out of it or getting hit by Godzilla or Anguirus, they went back into fighting mode. Gigan did hold his own very well.

Poorly made hooks = poor grappling.

Grappling is not a key to winning every match Pyras, you know that too buddy! Look at what he was able to do to Godzilla, Anguirus, and JJ with those hooks! He did a good job without having to grapple them.

The AI isn't even intelligent enough to hook onto the opponent and bear-hug them while keeping the saw on, an attack that could have stopped Godzilla dead in his tracks.

It would have yes. But just the last quote you said that the hooks were so poorly made they couldn't grapple. Now you are saying they are good enough to hold on to a kaiju and to bring them in to his chest saw? In Godzilla Vs. Gigan, we see in one shot one of his hooks "grabs" Godzilla's right hand, but Godzilla's hand just slipped out without any problems. With his claws being long as well, I doubt they could grab around Godzilla's or another kaiju's body to bring them in.

Gigan, in the long run, is sadly still more of a lackey, a muscle, an unexperienced bouncer..

If you can prove he's unexperienced, then I will go with you on that. But how can you explain that he may have invaded other worlds besides ours? He went up against a very good kaiju in Godzilla! Even then, he did hold his own. Against Anguirus, he pretty much had Anguirus owned. With JJ, I'd say he's about even with him. The movies are proof that he can be a formidable adversary even when he is not under the control of a computer.

As for the arm breaking, which is how this all started, Gigan was beaten senseless thanks to the radiaction blast. Ceasar isn't going to let JJ grab his arm so easily, and may even just flip him over with his own might.

Just because he was beaten senseless Pyras, doesn't mean that his whole body is going to turn to butter. If you knocked me senseless, my bone structure is still going to be as strong as it was when I wasn't knocked senseless. Admit it Pyras, JJ is one strong mech. The arm breaking and being able to lift Gigan and then THROW him up in the air is very impressive! Not to mention he still kept coming at Megalon and Gigan. Unlike Seesar who was down and out practically from a missile shot and several smacks to the body from one opponent. And flipping JJ over isn't going to do much damage to JJ. It may daze him for a few seconds, but nothing more. Look at what the flip did to MG. Not even phased.
Not to mention Pyras you haven't addressed some of my statements earlier in the thread about Seesar.

[MirrenDono]

Originally posted by kent
The arm breaking and being able to lift Gigan and then THROW him up in the air is very impressive! Not to mention he still kept coming at Megalon and Gigan.

Don't forget how he barely focused on the throw

I've thougth about it, and these are the advantages both Kaiju have-

Seesar-

-Better agility
-Better speed
-Slight better fortitude

Jet-

-Better skill
-Better strength
-Flight


Interesting fight, even though I'm loyal to Jet for it

[kent]

Don't forget how he barely focused on the throw

Indeed! I completely forgot about that! Thanks for the pointer Mirren!

[PyrasTerran]

The hooks are obviously sharp still,

The hook are not sharp.

Grappling is not a key to winning every match Pyras, you know that too buddy! Look at what he was able to do to Godzilla, Anguirus, and JJ with those hooks! He did a good job without having to grapple them.

I didn't say grappling is a key to winning every match Mirren, don't put words in me mouth.

The fact is that with Gigan's arms' length and the size of his belly, even if he wanted to, he can't grapple effectively to use the buzzsaw.

It would have yes. But just the last quote you said that the hooks were so poorly made they couldn't grapple. Now you are saying they are good enough to hold on to a kaiju and to bring them in to his chest saw? In Godzilla Vs. Gigan, we see in one shot one of his hooks "grabs" Godzilla's right hand, but Godzilla's hand just slipped out without any problems. With his claws being long as well, I doubt they could grab around Godzilla's or another kaiju's body to bring them in.

there you go again..

I didn't say he can't grapple, I said his grappling is poor. Please double-read.

And you're right, his hooks aren't very good for that technique which would prove perfect.

In STE, Gigan's stomach is made smaller and his arms longer. It's not anything important to this match, but it shows how they made Gigan a better design quality while keeping the same form.

If you can prove he's unexperienced, then I will go with you on that. But how can you explain that he may have invaded other worlds besides ours? He went up against a very good kaiju in Godzilla! Even then, he did hold his own. Against Anguirus, he pretty much had Anguirus owned. With JJ, I'd say he's about even with him. The movies are proof that he can be a formidable adversary even when he is not under the control of a computer.

He only faced Godzilla. Gigan was built and used in the roach's master plan to invade earth, nothing more.

And this doesn't disprove that he's a poorly constructed cyborg.

[quote]Just because he was beaten senseless Pyras, doesn't mean that his whole body is going to turn to butter. If you knocked me senseless, my bone structure is still going to be as strong as it was when I wasn't knocked senseless.
[quote]

Did you see how JJ broke the arm Kent? That was much more technique than it was brute strength. Anyone with the expertise could do that. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

Admit it Pyras, JJ is one strong mech.

Uh, who said that he wasn't?

Just because his physical strength is off the chain doesn't mean his physical endurance is equal. Quite the opposite. This is what Ceasar beats JJ in. Do you think JJ could have survived the MechaGodzilla barrage?

Unlike Seesar who was down and out practically from a missile shot and several smacks to the body from one opponent.

What are you talking about?? Ceasar stayed in the game for a good while, and survived more than Jet Jaguar ever did. and it wasn't until Goji and MG's duel that he butted out. But he still had the right of mind and body to be able to send powerful bodyslams and headbutts into MG that crushed his defenses.

And flipping JJ over isn't going to do much damage to JJ. It may daze him for a few seconds, but nothing more. Look at what the flip did to MG. Not even phased.

And yet JJ who is also a machine became dizzy by watching Megalon spin around! MG is a much better machine in withstanding attacks than JJ, Kent, because JJ actually seems to feel damage where MG does not.

Not to mention Pyras you haven't addressed some of my statements earlier in the thread about Seesar.

I was never intending to. I simply made one comment on Gigan being a poorly designed cyborg and then you and Mirren decided to bombard me about it.

Gigan isn't even the matter in this fight.

Seesar-

-Better agility
-Better speed
-Slight better fortitude

Much better fortitude, JJ would have been scrapped from MG's assault.

Jet-

-Better skill
-Better strength
-Flight

King Ceasar has shown incredible skill as well for not being human or machine. The fact that he's able to perform a judo maneuver without opposeable thumbs says as much.