It's the LAW...

[Raptor]

June 9, 2005 -- HOT SPRINGS, Ark. (AP) A new law requires doctors and hospital personnel to notify authorities when a baby is born with an illegal drug in its system but a prosecutor says there's no law that the mother can be charged with violating.

Prosecutor Steve Oliver says he has dropped charges that had been filed against Natasha Faye Spainhour who gave birth April 20th to twins who reportedly had methamphetamine in their systems. A police report said the twins were born prematurely and were in critical condition at birth.

Spainhour's arrest was one of the first under a state law passed during this year's legislative session. Oliver says that law doesn't apply in the case of a mother who takes drugs while pregnant. He said the law does not apply to unborn children.

The legislative sponsor of Garrett's Law, state Senator Tim Wooldridge of Paragould, said his intent was never to penalize the mother but to secure the safety of the child.

Is this messed up or what?

(From the legislative considerations)

LITTLE ROCK (Arkansas News Bureau) - A House committee recommended a measure that would require women whose illegal drug use is suspected of causing their babies to be born with health problems to be reported to the state.
The House Judiciary Committee also endorsed the final three bills of a package designed to reduce jail overcrowding and limit the number of people who return to the prison system.

The committee recommendation of Senate Bill 114, also known as Garrett's Law, came after emotional testimony from the grandmother of an infant who died after being born with an addiction to methamphetamine.
Rep. Robert Thompson, D-Paragould, told the committee that SB 114 would require doctors to report cases where babies are born addicted to illegal drugs or with health problems related to their mother's use of the drugs to the Arkansas State Police Child Abuse Hotline. Information from the calls would be turned over to the Department of Human Services. Under current law, a doctor can be sued by a patient for revealing that private medical information, Thompson said.

During testimony, Rita Sklar, director of the ACLU, said the bill was too harsh because it suggested that the mother was guilty of a crime before any investigation had occurred. She suggested the panel support another bill, which would require that doctors report suspected cases to county health departments.
Thompson said DHS was the appropriate agency to decide what's in the best interest of the child and the mother after caseworkers conduct an investigation. He said his goal was to protect the children and keep the mothers and their children together.
Sklar and others also said that alcohol and smoking do more damage to babies than most illegal drugs and asked why they were not included in the bill.
Thompson said alcohol and smoking are not illegal and the bill is only dealing with illegal drugs used by pregnant women that might cause babies to be born with an addiction.
DHS estimated the cost of the program at between $6 million and $35 million, based on the number of reports filed and the volume of drug testing. Testimony Thursday revealed the $35 million annual cost estimate was based on a 1998 study that projected 6,000 more reports coming into the hot line, Wooldridge said, adding he doubted there were 6,000 reports filed.
The bill was named after Garrett Simpson, Stahl's grandson, who along with a twin sister was born addicted to methamphetamine, which their mother had used while pregnant. Stahl said Garrett's twin sister is recovering from the addiction.

One of the three bills in a seven-bill package to lessen jail overcrowding and rehabilitate inmates won a voice vote after being rejected two days earlier.
SB 387 could reduce the sentences for some convicted of manufacturing methamphetamine and sentenced under the state's "70 percent" rule. Act 1036 of 1995, known as the "70 percent law," requires that certain types of violent offenders - those convicted of murder, kidnapping, aggravated robbery and rape, in addition to methamphetamine manufacturers - serve at least 70 percent of their sentences before they can be considered for parole. In testimony on Tuesday, state Prison Director Larry Norris told the committee that a vast majority of those convicted of methamphetamine manufacturing are not violent and likely would follow prison rules to get the good behavior time that would reduce their sentences.

The committee also recommended SB 388, which would reduce time served for good behavior except for violent prisoners sentenced under the 70 percent law, and SB 389, which would create incentives for successful rehabilitation.
"It's about changing behavior and we think we can do that by putting people into programs and creating incentives for inmates to get into programs," said David Guntharp, director of the Arkansas Department of Community Correction. "We think it will be very positive."

[Cookson]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Is this messed up or what?

Yeah. Am not sure in this case if the kid should be taking away from there parents. Probably not but you never know what the government might do.

[Shadow]

Yes, that is "messed up". I beleive that the police should step in with charges of substance abuse against the mother, because it is clear as day that she used them. Those twins didn't put the "Meth" in their body themselves did they? If they did then please call Ripley's...

He said the law does not apply to unborn children.

Yet the child will gain the rights of a citizen of the United States as soon they emerge from the womb...

[Burkion]

Hey Morgoth? You got the tourches right? We need to hurry, humanity is getting stupider!

[Raptor]

Imagine getting up in front of the state (or federal) House and making statements like these:

During testimony, Rita Sklar, director of the ACLU, said the bill was too harsh because it suggested that the mother was guilty of a crime before any investigation had occurred.
Sklar and others also said that alcohol and smoking do more damage to babies than most illegal drugs and asked why they were not included in the bill.
Thompson said alcohol and smoking are not illegal and the bill is only dealing with illegal drugs used by pregnant women that might cause babies to be born with an addiction.

IMO, once again the child is being forgotten, despite glaring evidence that the mother is guilty of abuse, endangering and a whole lot more things I could think of charging her with.
Critics had also warned that the bill could make drug-using pregnant women avoid important prenatal care. Miss your appointment, test "dirty", instant endangerment charge. Just think: in detention, chances of pulling that stunt again are rather slim.
For all practical purposes, she needs to suffer as those babies are, if not worse. Imagine what the hospital is having to deal with as far as their care (and ICU at that, no doubt) is concerned. And how will the rest of their lives be affected? I hope they run her out of town on a rail up there for what she has done to those children. "Vigilante" justice? It would "watch out" for kids a lot better than that Prosecutor is doing. Might as well get rid of him while they're at it. Say goodbye to political aspirations, you low down bleeding heart sapsucker!

[Morgoth]

For the good of humanity, the entire ACLU needs to be taken out, shot, their bodies fed to wild dogs. End of friggin' question. This is why democracy fails people, because when it is around long enough, the lunatics get a chance to run the asylum.

Seriously, Shakespeare said it best. 'First thing we do is kill all the lawyers.' Such a sorry testament to the loathsomeness of this thing we call civilization that the same parasitical infestation is allowed to raze and ruin society hundreds of years later. At what point did common sense and simple justice become debatable? At what point did simple decency and holding degenerates accountable for their crimes become taboo? ****ing lawyers should all be garroted, and their bodies thrown to the dogs as well.

Starting to see why I am a fascist? This entire article just sickens me. Thanks Raptor, you've managed to ruin my day.

[Burkion]

I still say all we need is a few nukes, and everything will be ok...I guess.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

For the good of humanity, the entire ACLU needs to be taken out, shot, their bodies fed to wild dogs. This is why democracy fails people, because when it is around long enough, the lunatics get a chance to run the asylum.

And in too many cases, THEY are ELECTED to do so.

At what point did common sense and simple justice become debatable? At what point did simple decency and holding degenerates accountable for their crimes become taboo?

When the state legislature convenes.

This entire article just sickens me. Thanks Raptor, you've managed to ruin my day.

Same here. Usually, it's the "weird news" that makes the rounds, not something so-called "respectable" people (in this case, our representatives and a dim bulb prosecutor) do or bring about. FWIW, our DHS and State Police work very closely as far as child neglect and abuse are concerned. The same 800 hot line is used by the public and the medics. Ms. Do-Gooder also seemed unaware that the Health Department and DHS would be merged (and now are), making for even more efficient co-ordination of responsibilities. She had suggested the Health units be advised rather than DHS no doubt to steer the "criminal" aspect away from the junkies' wrongdoing. Here's a neat local assurance FWIW: the State Police officer who covers our area in this respect has his office in our DHS AND is one of our city Aldermen! Knowing him, HE would be a better choice to have in Little Rock than the neighboring Paragould rep who wimped out with the bill IMO.
Morgoth, you want to REALLY get fired up? Check this ARKANSAS TIMES magazine blog on the subject. When are people going to get their pointy heads out of their nether regions?!
Besides, *I* didn't call you over here to read about the blooming mess - Blue Devil did!

[SandwormPhish]

The sad thing is that the ACLU actually used to stand for something worthwhile. Now ever time I see it in the news they're blocking something sensible like this. Suggesting she used the drugs? The tests are right there!

[kent]

Nothing could really be as bad as the Patriot Act. Sure it helps fight terror, but you lose quite a few of your rights in the process. Bad bad legislation!

[anguirus55]

To be fair, Quetzalcoatl-worshippers are pretty damn few-and-far between these days, especially in the continental U.S. I'd wager. It's a waste of money, not an endorsement of a god. Like any organization, the ACLU picks it's battles. The Ten Commandments doesn't really belong on federal property.

That said, I don't agree with their stance here.

Any mother who does any drug while pregnant, no matter if it's legal normally or not, is pretty damn irresponsible. I'm kind of torn on whether there should be legislation in that area or not.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by anguirus55

Any mother who does any drug while pregnant, no matter if it's legal normally or not, is pretty damn irresponsible. I'm kind of torn on whether there should be legislation in that area or not.

There already is, under CHILD ENDANGERMENT. You can be cited for that for not having your kids in proper seat belts/child restraints in a car OR if they are, driving drunk. This latest law came about because doctors would "violate" patient confidentiality if they reported a child having illegal substances in its bloodstream. As well, they could be subject to CIVIL suit.

This is from the CRIMINAL Code, not any wimp-*** JUVENILE one:
5-27-204. Endangering welfare of minor - Second degree.


(a) A person commits the offense of endangering the welfare of a minor in the second degree if he knowingly engages in conduct creating a substantial risk of serious harm to the physical or mental welfare of one known by the actor to be a minor.
(b) Endangering the welfare of a minor in the second degree is a Class A misdemeanor.


History. Acts 1975, No. 280, § 2408; A.S.A. 1947, § 41-2408.


IMO, it ought to be a felony offense. Abandonment is.
I wouldn't be surprised if some defense attorney or bleeding heart ivory tower hand-wringer will claim the druggie DIDN'T REALIZE smoking crack/doing drugs would adversely affect her baby. Should we gear up for a good purging of the gene pool, I suggest we start with criminal defense lawyers, drug dealers and incompetent parents. Speaking of which, if they need to be receiving public assistance, can they afford to have more kids? I always wondered that, ever since AFDC/TEA/whatever didn't get phased out 18 years after it first began back in the 60s(?)...

[Darth Reaper]

****ing lawyers should all be garroted, and their bodies thrown to the dogs as well.- Morgoth

Now now Clint, we can't feed lawyers to wild dogs. We don't know where those lawyers have been. The dogs could get sick, and I can't have that. I love doggies. We'll feed them to vultures, I hear that they can digest just about anything.

[state alchemist]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

Seriously, Shakespeare said it best. 'First thing we do is kill all the lawyers.' Such a sorry testament to the loathsomeness of this thing we call civilization that the same parasitical infestation is allowed to raze and ruin society hundreds of years later. At what point did common sense and simple justice become debatable? At what point did simple decency and holding degenerates accountable for their crimes become taboo? ****ing lawyers should all be garroted, and their bodies thrown to the dogs as well.

QFT

it sickens me how lawyers and judges make controversial actions in the legal system because of the objectivity code they so praise. there comes a point where common since and cultural decency should come into play.

[Burkion]

Anyone else thinking about feeding them to goats? Goats CAN eat anything...

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Blue Devil

Anyone else thinking about feeding them to goats? Goats CAN eat anything...

ABSOLUTELY NOT! (I like goats!) And that goes for rabid possums, piranhas and about anything else short of a wood chipper. At least with a mulcher, you can decontaminate it properly without releasing any "by-products" back into our ecosystem where they might remanifest themselves into an even stupider, more virulent epidemic.

[Burkion]

How about we just ship 'em to the sun? (Or just stick them in a room with hundreds of Oscars...Neo, Gor, Seer, and a few others will know who I mean.)

[anguirus55]

It makes me laugh how quickly any of you would change your tune if you were accused of a crime you didn't commit. Then you'd be howling for the best damn defense lawyer possible.

At a certain point, one realizes that the world's problems will not go away if everyone you think is "stupid" disappeared.

[Saruman]

Originally Posted by anguirus55

At a certain point, one realizes that the world's problems will not go away if everyone you think is "stupid" disappeared.

No they wont, but it can give you a warm fuzzy feeling just thinking about it.

[Raptor]

Who all thinks lawyers have only created MORE perceived problems? Anyone come across the acronym KISS? It stands for Keep It Short and Simple. Lawyers seem to just COMPLICATE things IMO. And guess what? It's gotten to such a point where it seems even MORE OF THEM show up to try to untangle the mess. Sounds like an epidemic to me...

[Burkion]

I'm tellin ya, one go around with an uzie, and all is good again...

[Morgoth]

Oh yes it would, because then the entire world population would be in the low 100,000's rather than 6 billion.

Can't feed lawyers to sharks, a shark won't touch a lawyer out of professional courtesy.

As for the Aztecs, I fall back on the maxim that certain ideas and concepts are so insidious that the very possibility of their perpetuation justifies ANYTHING to exterminate them, and the Aztecs and their obscene 'civilization' are one of the few instances in world history where such extreme action has been wholly justified. The enslavement and subjugation of other tribes and peoples which followed by the Spanish of course, is another matter, and quite inexcusable even by the standards of that time. But their Aztecs, their complete destruction would be as righteous today as it was then, except of course today 'civilized' man is too craven and spineless and lacking in either conviction or determination to do what needs to be done.

[THE ONE AND ONLY]

Did anyone here hear the one about why the lion was eating elephant dung?


It had just ate a lawyer ,and was trying to get the taste out of his mouth.

[Raptor]

A brief item on meth. I can understand Burton's disappointment at the low turn-out. That town has over 55,000 people.
Morgoth mentioned people are "lacking in either conviction or determination to do what needs to be done." I say they also like to try to IGNORE the "bad stuff" that's going on, right in their own neighorhoods in so many cases. Others aren't comprehending what might be going on. Lots of traffic going to and from a house at all hours and no yard sale in sight? Don't be surprised if a little illegal activity isn't taking place, rather than just a "traffic problem" with all the vehicles. Do the math, people! The stuff is easy to make, can be done about anywhere, creates lots of quick cash and suckers will buy it.
What is more cost effective:
Paying for the RESULTS of usage (further criminal activity, detox, rehab, incarceration)
Educating the public AS A WHOLE
Cracking down BIG TIME on the whole situation, from user to provider?

There are tools out there that can be used. Know of a "drug house"? Got the S.A.F.E. program in your town? It's a great CO-ORDINATED effort to clean up this kind of mess.
Like they say with so many efforts, all it takes is one phone call. There's everything from confidential CRIMESTOPPERS hot lines to getting with other concerned parties and presenting your case en masse. Take your pick but you will have to get off your butt (or high horse if you think, "Oh, that doesn't affect ME...) if you want to see any changes happening with about anything.
Even laws can be repealed or amended if that's where the "problem" lies. It's a lot more drawn out and complicated than making a phone call but can well be worth the effort in the long run.

[kent]

Movies tell you how to solve your problems best...become the Judge, Jury, and Executioner. A philosophy to live by.